ABC Article on "Long-Term Renters" and Home Ownership - Ridiculous

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-18/record-house-and-rent…

I find the entire premise of this article absolutely absurd. Granted, the concept that home ownership is beyond reach due to circumstances that are outside of a person's control seems to be something we can all sympathise/empathise with.

That is, until you get to the second paragraph:

The 35-year-old teacher lives in Sydney's south-west and has been saving to buy a property for four years, ever since she moved out of her family's home.
Both she and her husband save 10 per cent of their pay cheque towards a deposit

  1. She only started saving at age 31?
  2. She is only setting aside 10% of her pay?

I might be missing something here, but this reeks of entitlement.
How can anyone choose to spend their entire disposable income until the age of 31 then complain four years later that they cannot afford to buy a home.

I personally started setting aside money when I first started earning money - before I was even 15. I am just over double that age now and have 2 apartments - both with approximately 50% equity and 50% loan outstanding. No help from family or otherwise.


Since @GrueHunter was kind enough to try and challenge my numbers:

To anyone that thinks this couple can't save more than 10% of their income, have a look at a brief weekly budget below, and tell me what else you add that accounts for spending the rest of your disposable income of $1,700 per week after rental expenses.

$160k gross income - let's say $120k clear after tax.
$620/week rent. That's $32.2k/year.
So they clear just shy of $90k/year, which is $1,700 per week for bills and food.

The below expenses total $612 per week. Add whatever you want as monthly subscriptions. But that couple could be saving MUCH more than 10%.

Items Weekly Monthly Quarterly Yearly TOTAL WEEKLY
Electricity $ (300) $ (23)
Gas $ (100) $ (8)
Water $ (200) $ (15)
Contents Insurance $ (1,000) $ (19)
Fuel $ (40) $ (40)
Car Insurance $ (900) $ (17)
Car CTP $ (600) $ (12)
Car Rego $ (300) $ (6)
Car Payments $ (500) $ (115)
Health Insurance $ (397) $ (92)
Gym $ (100) $ (23)
Mobile 1 $ (60) $ (14)
Mobile 2 $ (60) $ (14)
Internet $ (60) $ (14)
Groceries $ (200) $ (200)

Comments

    • Indeed it all adds up.

      But my argument back should be - the number of kids you (plan to) have should at least be partially influenced by your ability to financially support them.

      Having 1 kid is an enourmous expense. Have 2 is even more so.

      If you're planning to buy a home, then all your daily and future expected expenses (including kids) should be taken into consideration to determine what you can and can't afford to focus your discretionary spending on.

      You can't just go about spending your entire disposable income, have 2 kids, and then complain that you can't afford a house.

      • +1

        Having kids also plays into your borrowing power. Most banks deducted $50k - $100k per child from what you can borrow. Got 2 kids? CBA will deduct $200k from your borrowing capacity. All of a sudden you can no longer borrow down that $450k for the 3BR estate house, and wind up with an offer of $250k leaving you with having to find the rest for yourself.

        Even with great savings capacity and a headstrong mindset to meet that goal, it's a very difficult one to achieve when you have ongoing costs already.

        • The decision to have children (assuming a choice here) should be dependent on an individual or a couple's financial dependence.

          The decision to have a kid should never be taken lightly. There should be due diligence involved in the process, including an assessment of whether you would be able to achieve your family goals.

          It might be a bit long-sighted. But to not bother to do any of this for the sake of your kid would be reflective of a lazy or negligent mindset.

          • @CrushJelly: I get where you're coming from, but you're in the minority on this one.

            • @Kangal: If that is the minority attitude, then it goes back to @aussday's comment.

              I think the problem is most people are financial illiterate.

              • +2

                @CrushJelly: Now you're getting it.

                Humans are pretty set in their ways and lazy like most other animals (maybe not as bad). And we are emotionally driven beings, with higher intelligence. Just look at how well people are at mathematics, physics, and chemistry, and you can understand our brains aren't that orientated towards logical thinking.

                We make problems first, then find solutions. It is much more efficient to enable solutions without causing problems first. This applies to most people, and most topics, such as having children.

  • -2

    When house prices crash, the media and govt will act like it’s the end of the world. I’ll have a big smile on my dile.

    • Dile?
      Like a crocodile?

      • -1

        When was the last time house prices crashed in Australia, esp in Sydney?

        • +1

          Is Google broken?

  • -1

    Everyone needs to take a chill pill. People are taking ABC too seriously. They are not news network. They are entertainment network. They will always pick someone to play victim and stir up the situation to make it sound worse. The "interview" they had with the "victim" is always biased.

    For example,
    - housing market issue, they seems to only interview those who can't afford a house. They never interview any family who went through really frugal lifestyle to afford their own home.

    • Aussie stuck overseas issue. Their questions towards the "victims" were how bad their situation or how unfairly they have been treated by the govt. They never asked the question why were those people outside the country in the first place? Were they out there before or after the government closed the border. Some has good reason, but getting married shouldn't be one of them.

    Instead of showing them as a victim of current system, and blame everyone, ABC could have an expert to guide that couple out of their situation. At least the viewer can learn something as well

    • +2

      Where do you read your news?

  • +5

    I would say the number is lower: https://paycalculator.com.au/ i put in below

    80k gross income each, assuming HECS, no children:

    $12,584.55 Tax
    $7,272.73 Super
    $54,976.39 take home pay

    $54,976.39 * 2 adults = $109,952.78 Take home pay
    $109,952.78 - $32.2k rent = $77,952
    $77,952 / 52 = $1499 per week

    personally i think your living costs are a abit unrealistic i would bump that up to $900 to account for depreciation, multiple cars to get to work, maintaince on cars etc.

    $1499 - $900 = $559 per week

    then if you want to have some sort of entertainment (cheap wine, BYO adventures, camping trips etc):

    $559 - $100 = $449 to save for the house per week, and still have a half decent life. The ideal solution is that they dump the money into the FHSS scheme and claim back money on tax but i doubt they are doing that. They are bloody rooted if they have children though

    I personally started setting aside money when I first started earning money - before I was even 15. I am just over double that age now and have 2 apartments - both with approximately 50% equity and 50% loan outstanding. No help from family or otherwise.

    good for you, coming from a decent family (which i am assuming you do or having some good role models in your life) is a leg up. Not every family teaches financial education. So to say you had no help from family or otherwise is quite interesting.

    • -4

      No financial help. I was trying to predict the comments from here about getting financial assistance.

      Didn't feel the need to say anything about financial education or role models, or my self-discipline training or any other aspect of my life, however remotely related.

    • wow, i get taxed more than somebody who earns 80k a year despite earning nearly 30k less than that… at least my tax return will be fat

    • +1

      In my experience the best role models are parents who are shit with managing money. I learned so much on budgeting watching them buy things we didn't need and spend too much on things we did.

      I bought my investment property in Sydney at 27 without help from family because they had no money. I'm about the same age as these guys - I saved >60k in ~4yrs on a pre-tax salary <60k while living in Sydney. I drove a car older than me and share housed to save money so I still had enough cash for a trip to Europe (partly luck as the AUD was high in 2013).

      I don't live there as the rental return is more than I currently spend renting elsewhere.

  • +6

    Aus needs to change the tax system that looks at property as merely a tax rort to park your wealth in. Housing is a human right, not a luxury. it's a utility. The inaccessibility of home ownership is starting to challenge our national identity.

    • +1

      Housing is a human right but house ownership isn't.

      The UDHR doesn't mention owning real property as a human right.

      • News flash… price of rent is dictated by the price of properties. When one goes up, the other follows, regardless of which one goes up first.

        We have high rents AND high prices. Housing itself is expensive and prohibitive. Something needs to change for the greater good and for the future. Either make it so that rental fees are locked in for 10-years. Or increase banking/mortgage costs (30% ?) for 5-years and burn off this unhealthy excess/bubble. Or much harder, find a way to simultaneously reduce cost of living whilst increasing people's wages.

        Otherwise, just sit back and watch the shitshow :\

        • Or people can invest in other asset classes that is outperforming the housing market.

          Real property prices has been on a tear.

          Australian house prices to rise 22% this year and then ease off, economists say
          Westpac upgrades 2021 forecast, with the biggest gains expected in Sydney, up 27%, spurred on by low interest rates during the pandemic

          Australian Associated Press
          Fri 15 Oct 2021 00.09 EDT
          https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/15/austr…

          A 22% 1Y return can sound impressive but it's rather boring when compared to other markets.
          I wouldn't spend $250,000 (deposit) on an asset that is just going to give back 22% 1Y.

          There are other horses in the game that can do 10x, 100x or 1000x 1Y and doesn't come with a 30Y debt. A debt that is designed to keep people compliant and chained to the treadwheel. Some people even die before it's paid off.

    • +1

      I absolutely agree that it is a utility not commodity. I think you can allow certain level of property investment, but when a junior consultant doctor's daily after-tax income cannot catch up with the daily rise in property price in Sydney there is a problem. The problem is Australian voters don't wake up to this, which is a disappointing reflection of short sightness of a nation, just like the leaders.

  • +1

    Housing affordability isn’t just an issue for now. It also affects future generations.

    Having these low interest rates and our immigration about to boom. Will cause prices to surge again.

    For those thinking about how you did it tough and kids need to sacrifice etc. remember, if they can’t get into the market. They’ll be stuck at home longer lol.

    On another level, it also means they can delay those other life milestones. Travelling, relationships, kids etc.

  • +3

    You get these kind of articles all the time, I've seen them since I was in high school 20 years ago.

    Everything you read should go through your own assessment filters. The world runs on getting your attention, even the ABC's articles sometimes.

    When you see dumb articles just move on, they want a reaction. Who cares if the Wiggles are hiring for diversity or that kids dog show is being called racist, why would anyone invest any energy into that?

    Reading the article my thoughts are:

    1. Yeah, they picked the most irrelevant case study you can find.

    2. Anyone can afford their own place to live in, even today. If you want the big free standing home with the big backyard find a way to earn more or go rural, cant? get a unit or apartment.

    3. Covid prices will drop. You need to understand why prices went up during covid - there was nothing better to do than buy property, this is just toilet paper FOMO on a bigger scale. If you have a stupid amount of money and can't blow it on euro trips or lavish entertainment I guess all that's left to do is invest in housing.

    4. Australia had its chance to fix housing affordability the last two election. The people clearly voted no, the boomers want disco inferno. Don't mope, find a way to play the game better.

    • +1

      I wouldn't mind a unit/apartment, but in Sydney a lot of these bulit in the last 20 years may not last very long. This is the dilemma I face.

    • Covid prices will drop. You need to understand why prices went up during covid - there was nothing better to do than buy property, this is just toilet paper FOMO on a bigger scale. If you have a stupid amount of money and can't blow it on euro trips or lavish entertainment I guess all that's left to do is invest in housing.

      With demand from overseas I dont see prices dropping much,

      • Worst case we go back to pre-covid migration which given how we squandered our covid advantages is unlikely.

        Government isn't looking at restoring migration levels at all so far.

  • +3

    Gas $100 a quarter and fuel $40 a week? Service fees are $100 bucks alone.

    What are you smoking? Maybe 20 years ago.

    • +2

      Agreed! For me, Gas was $600 for a quarter (mainly because of WFH and using the heater) and fuel is easy $150 a week between my wife and I.

  • +13

    The article is silly. But you are even worse.

    What an entitled piece of boomer you are.

    What you might call "entitlement" was considered basics available for everyone just few decades ago. Free tertiary education, low housing price to wage ratio to just name a few.

    Don't get me wrong, I play the "game" just as you do and I'm sure most people commenting on this is savvy to understand what this "game" is, but I think you should re-evaluate what kind of entitlements you have had to get to where you are.

    • +3

      He's not a boomer, he's a millenial. And he has a valid point on somethings.

      The thing is the older generation really is eating their cake and keeping it too. In short, many did have short-term satisfactions and now they are enjoying long-term gratification.

      They had the opportunities to have cheap lifestyles, lots of travel, buy their own properties, etc etc. But they didn't have superannuation or much stock investment, so logically they should be broke now. However, their property has gradually AND suddenly become over-priced. So they also have a lot of wealth/savings and are not broke. Hence, the party goes on. Not that I blame them, you play the game you are playing, but it is important to note these factors.

      Also, I'm merely generalising here. Not all boomers (or Gen-Xers) had it easy, nor are they wealthy today. Many are frustrated like the younger generation of workers.

  • +1

    Article is trash, as they select a scenario that is meant to ruffle the feathers of the public but when you dig into the details, they're just entitled financially inept living above their means and albeit, started late.

  • +9

    I achieved what the OP did by a much younger age unsupported. Perhaps I can look at the OP as entitled for not working harder? Where does this game end?

    • +1

      This.

    • That's fine. I welcome anyone calling me out as being "entitled".

      It doesn't make the couple in the ABC story any less "entitled" themselves. In contrast, it echos my thoughts around how entitled they really are.

  • +1

    Mostly agree, I see these ABC articles a lot which use really poor examples that kinda undermine the point of the story. There’s no way if she is a teacher that she has ‘hit the top of our pay scale’, there’s so many opportunities to progress your career in education (you have to work for it though). They also must be renting something fairly nice to be spending $620/week in SW Sydney. Even in these circumstances there would be opportunities to save. I also see the ones on ABC where people complain about living in poverty but when you read their circumstances it just doesn’t add up. It’s a shame as there are genuinely people who would struggle to save for a housing deposit or are living in poverty which would make for a better story. Housing affordability is a real issue, but stories like this don’t help.

  • +6

    $620 per week for rent for a couple. That failed already.

    We are a family of 4 and we only pay $430 per week rent and living comfortably. That's an easy saving of $10,000 each year.

    • Yea and it probably made their expectation of their first home a lot higher…

  • +12

    People who spend 10 years of their life, partying, travelling and living "big", can't turn around and say that the market is unfair and we need to let them in easy. For those of us who saved, we have equity and half a house paid off by the time we reach 30. It's not rocket science.

    My suggestion is to turn off your TV, and stop getting your news from such corrupt sources.

    • ABC news I have found to be less "click bait" than most other media outlets.

      But articles like this are just clearly pandering to the masses. So I agree with you there.

      • ABC aren't exempt from being fake news. They always have a political or twisted perspective in everything, few can claim to be actual news sources.

  • -7

    I personally don’t think Sydney housing prices are expensive, its up to the individual to match their income to what they can actually afford. You cant have a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget. To the “younger generation “ who cant afford to save for a deposit while still living at home… wat are u spending your money on to not be able to save?! Work put your priorities, then u will be able to save the money you need! I bought my own place, with my own money, no help from the bank of mum& dad, earning 1/4 of my current income. The generation of entitlement is not going to get u into a house that u want.

    • +1

      I personally don’t think Sydney housing prices are expensive

      Tell me you're out of touch without telling me you're out of touch.

      I'm in Perth and even here with house prices at $550k on average we still have 30% of houses in mortgage stress.

  • +6

    I dont think this article is meant to be taken too seriously so calm your farms.

    The couple dont appear to be taking on their dream of home ownership seriously and live in Lala land. They are basically whinging that they cant afford a place without really putting in any serious measures to reach their goal. Saving 10% of your income might be fine for a holiday or a new car but a house?? Sometimes its easy to whine and throw your hands up in the sky and cry poor me than actually put a plan in place to actually achieve something.

    In saying that the property market is screwed and people who collect houses to rent them out are making life hard for the average punter but for them to start berating people about not being able to buy a first home is a bit much.

  • +5

    I've been a property owner for almost 15yrs and the strategy for getting into property is the same now as it is back then…

    1. Push yourself to earn more. If you can't earn enough for your deposit, you're not going to earn enough to deal with mortgage repayments, maintaining your property and deal with all the bills and rates that comes with property ownership.
    2. Save, save, save! That means spending less.
    3. Buy within your means… even if that means is a 2brm, 1bath, 1garage unit (assuming you're not going to be saving fast enough to get a townhouse or house instead within a year or two after having enough deposit for a unit). I have work colleagues that have a family of 4 that make 2brm units work. One needs to just get into the property market so that their money leverages off capital gains.
    4. Keep saving! If after buying your property, and tending to holding costs you cannot save, you won't be able to afford upgrading to a bigger property.

    E.g. A 2brm, 1bath, 1 garage unit 5km of the Brisbane CBD costs ~$330k… so that a $33k deposit one would need to save up. So from there, one needs to either save a bigger % of their pay if they're a lower income earner or they need to earn more somehow (legally of course).

    • +1

      I have seen couples wanting to buy a 1 mil+ house as their first home. Wannabe soccer moms

      • Not a problem if they earn say $300k/pa. Buy within your means.

  • +1

    Very reasonable budget numbers and rationale, OP.

    We left Sydney 20 years ago, primarily because of housing affordability issues. Most capital and regional centres were viable as far as decent jobs were concerned, that's different now. As is, I suspect, affordability in what were relative real estate bargains in WA/SA/Tas.

  • +1

    I probably would have had a similar reaction to OP reading this article, but after reading the comments here - I'm kind of sad for a lot of the posters.
    Sounds like a lot of people have lived pretty small lives, to get where they are.

    • I assure you, I would not consider my life "small lived".

      • +7

        Not many people consider their own lives to be small.

        But in any event, the time and effort you've applied to estimating and then scrutinizing the hypothetical finances of a couple the subject of a shortform ABC article, does not suggest to me that you're making the most out of life.

        • Does it matter what you consider my life to be, if I am happy with it?

          Or do you care so much about what others think of you, that you are then so influenced to appease others and not yourself?

          • +5

            @CrushJelly: Sure, OP.

            You've decided to start this thread criticising the (assumed) spending habits and life history of some strangers in a news article, but I'm the one who cares too much about how other people live their lives.

            • -1

              @bangiebargie: I don't care at all about how they live their life. My commentary is on how entitled they appear to be, crying foul at not being able to afford to purchase.

              Just because I don't decide to travel to 50 countries before I'm 50 (and prioritise my time elsewhere) doesn't give ME the right to then cry foul at why my life experience is so low compared to others.

              I've made my bed, I sleep in it.

              This couple should do the same (i.e. sleep in the bed they've made, without complaint).

              • +2

                @CrushJelly: I saved as much as humanly possible in my ealry 20's. After 3 years I had about 30k in savings and at that point it was either save another few years for a house deposit, buy a place and then spend another 30 years penny pinching and not enjoying my youth at all to pay it off, or quite my job and travel the world for 18 months before returning and settling down and work towards buying a place later in life.

                Thankfully I chose the latter and by the age of 26 I'd actually visited 50 countries.

                Im now 34 and JUST gotten into the housing market with a tiny 1 bed unit in Brunswick East, Melbourne.

                Yes, I could have gotten into the market back then and right now I might be in something a bit nicer with more than 35sqm to live/work in, but know for a fact I would have lived a much smaller and less fulfilled life.

                The one thing I do know is that if I had the choice for a do-over when I had that 30k, I'd still make that same choice to travel while I still could. There likely wont ever be a chance to do that again while in good health from here on in, in reality it's all downhill from here. I'd not recommend ANYONE go straight from school, into a job and have their main goal to be entering the housing market at the expense of wasting their youth pinching penny's and not traveling, missing out on events with friends/family and really learning about the world and yourself.

                Ideally people shouild be able to comfortably start saving for a home in their late 20's or early 30's and still get into the housing market themselves, not directly spat out of school when most people have no idea what the hell they even want to do with their lives.

                • @SkMed: Difference with you is that you understand you made a choice to go down a certain path and you've owned that decision.

                  You don't run around crying foul that you can't afford a really nice house in a really nice suburb that is really convenient and really close to amenities - which was the attitude of the couple in the ABC article.

                  You consider your travelled experience to be valuable - and I'd completely appreciate that. Everyone prioritises things differently.

                  I've never said anything to take that away from anyone.

                  But I do keep saying one thing: "you make your bed, now you sleep in it". Seems like you're happily sleeping in the bed you made. Nothing wrong with that.

                  Ideally people shouild be able to comfortably start saving for a home in their late 20's or early 30's and still get into the housing market themselves

                  One thing I don't agree with is this. The previous generation (my parents) had kids at the early twenties. They didn't have the same luxury as the current generation do in terms of having kids well into their 30s.

                  It's an entirely different premise. You can't compare apples with oranges.

                  • +1

                    @CrushJelly: They had kids (and lots of kids) earlier as they were easily able afford 4 kids plus a massive house on a single income. I'd call that more of a luxury than our generation having to wait until their late 20's/30's to have kids because the simply cant afford them prior.

                    Back then you could easily wait until your 30's to buy a house, hell even your 40's. Why isn't this generation able to do the same and things are going backwards. Things are supposed to get better as time goes on, not worse.

                    At the end of the day the housing market is absolutely out of control, and this gen has it FAR tougher than our parents did, even my parents recognize that.

                    The rural family farm where I grew up went from $30k when my dad bought it in 1989, to worth well over 1.3 million this year. That's an increase of 4233 percent over just over 30 years. In that same time wages have increased what, maybe 200 percent in that same time. There's absolutely no comparison here and not argument that it was tougher back then, its absolute rubbish. This gen does have a sense of entitlement, but rightfully so! They should be entitled to the same cheap affordable housing that our parents did, or something close to it at least.

                    • @SkMed: Have a think about what's changed in the last 30 years.
                      Globalisation.

                      Australia has become a far more attractive country to live in. And with that comes migration.

                      We (Australians) want globalisation to occur because it means we have access to other technologies and products. It also means we have access to highly-skilled labour, as well as not so highly-skilled labour coming into the country. Look at most of your medical professionals - just go to the hospital or even your nearest mass vaccination hub. There are a tonne of nurses from the UK. Corporate professionals - most of them come from South Africa.

                      Do you even understand what the effects of the lockdown has made on the local job market? A lot of companies are struggling to employ skilled labour due to lack of inbound migration.

                      But on the other hand, we don't want globalisation to occur because it means our own finite resources (land and housing) has to then be shared with those from the global community that are granted residency status.

                      How many of those that believe they should be given affordable housing have even considered the above concepts?

  • +3

    Pure entitlement.

    I see it again and again. Saving for a deposit starts with a plan and sacrifice.

    I honestly see so many young people in luxury cars, travelling, frequent eating out and bars, wearing expensive threads, etc. without giving it a second thought and then complain about this. They can't sustain their lifestyle at that stage, let alone save for a deposit!

    Financial literacy is not taught in schools and it should be because not many people have any clue. People can't seem to live within their means.

  • Yes, I read that as well. How can two people on a combined income of 160k not be able to save?!

    I am on a pension, and I can save 10k a year.

    I think they thought that if they paint themselves in such abject poverty, that some good samaritan will toss money at them.

    A teacher has so many holidays, that this woman could actually obtain a second job, and too, her husband.

  • +3

    OP, when did you buy your first property and what is the capital gains on it so far?
    Because anyone that bought property 10 years ago basically won the lottery (the house paid itself off in 10 years because property prices doubled). Anyone who bought property 20 years ago basically won the lottery twice.
    It is quite annoying for boomers to say 'well I did it' when all they did was win the lottery.
    Also, if your parents won said lottery, chances are they've given you a head start.

    • +6

      Sorry to disappoint mate, but I'm not a boomer. I'm early 30's.
      Property prices absolutely did not double for apartments in the last ten years. For landed property, yes - but not apartments. And that's not taking into consideration the stamp duty paid or CGT payable upon realising that equity gain.

      And the assumption that I've been given a head start? That's quite presumptious of you.\

      I didn't "just win the lottery". I identified opportunities, calculated value and acted fast. Two weeks ago, we exchanged contract to buy a landed property off-market. We bought it at $100-200k less than what the market would have paid for it. I didn't "just win the lottery" mate. I don't just sit back and let the market make me money. I actively pursue opportunities. Do you?

      • +2

        I didn't presume, I asked a question and provided some reasoning.
        How much did you presume about the woman in the article?

        • -1

          Why did you need to ask the question?

          I already explicitly stated in my OP that I was not given a head start.

          No help from family or otherwise.

          • +1

            @CrushJelly: I didn't ask if you had help, I was asking when you purchased and what the capital gain was

            • -1

              @reactor-au:

              I didn't presume, I asked a question and provided some reasoning.
              I didn't ask if you had help, I was asking when you purchased and what the capital gain was

              My comment about you being presumptious related specifically to assuming that I had a head start.

              And the assumption that I've been given a head start? That's quite presumptious of you

      • +1

        I back the OP's argument… 40s here… bought in my mid 20s… my unit went from $282k to somewhere from $300-330k in value over the past 14-15yrs (yes, I've had it recently appraised).

        I wouldn't say I've won the lottery based on these figures above.

        Note that I paid the hell out of that unit during the first 7yrs of owning it and built up enough equity to buy a townhouse without having to sell. Said townhouse has recently been sold to fund a house purchase with my wife (my townhouse has gone up in value, wife's townhouse has actually lost value).

        Some things to take away from all this:

        1. I did not try to jump straight to buying a house or even townhouse. I bought what I could and kept working/earning more/saving to make the move to a townhouse and now house. A unit was what I could afford at first. I started there and worked up.

        2. Whilst my townhouse sold for almost $100k above what I bought it for, note that I've had years of large body corp fees, rectifications and other costly expenses… I've had to learn a lot about property (both legal and construction) over the past 20yrs in order help my body corp avoid uneducated decision making. We're talking about defects in the millions here. We spent less than $200k to prove to the Government that they needed to step in against the party at fault and got things fixed that way.

        Any "profits" I've had from property were because I worked for my results… learning how to do research and due diligence, saving and ensuring I had enough money to tend to my holding costs, constantly learning so I could deal with any property problem that arose.

  • Those car repayments at $500 a month hmm anyways.

    100,000 deposit for a 1 bedroom unit valued 650.000 (that will either come with structural issues or not, given the gamble property developers take) when what should really be happening is a blue print for property developers to receive 5% land tax or none tax on any business payments, and fees to utility free under the governments road map to turn the property's into affordable housing, signing the property off in that way will result in the property developers only paying 1-5% in tax on huge dwellings they may have brought in, however reducing the cost of infrastructure that sydney will never recover from.

    But if we are talking home ownership watch https://youtu.be/4kPLpZN3I3A
    Probably wouldn't make a difference if you're some home owner.

    However if you want passive income invest offshore, you'll not regret it, but crying home to the health system in Australia when things with your health decline.

  • +1

    There is only one solution: Move out of Sydney. If the city is too expensive for you and you don't want to commute two hours each day, find somewhere else to live.

    • +3

      Correct.
      Hard to find a new job as a teacher in a different city? Easy solution - just try harder.
      All of your family and friends in Sydney? Simple, get adopted into a new family. Ditch your old friends and make new ones.
      Fixed!

      • +3

        I mean if you just worked harder you could afford to pay for your friends and family to move and then employ them in your company. The lack of ambition people have these days…

  • +6

    Your numbers on electricity, gas, water and fuel are off what most people would spend (double them). Even if you are saving more than 10% you aren't getting a house though. I'm in a much higher tax bracket than that couple and I got knocked back on a mortgage by three banks when I had a 60% deposit. It's a hard market to crack at the moment and there are all sorts of factors that blow you straight out of the door with lenders. They multiply the amount you have available on credit cards by a factor of six regardless of whether you have any actual debt. I managed to save (and have some good investment wins) enough to get a housing deposit in my first 6 years of working but it is hard. Most people aren't that smart or cunning (I used stegging to dramatically multiply the amount of money I had available for the initial deposit because I knew I could pay it back in 9 months).

    But regardless of that, if you are saving at a rate of 10% and prices are going up at greater than 10% per year you will never have enough money. Basic maths.

  • I know many people who earn a lot less than the said 35-year-old teacher now owns more than 1 properties. You just have to work hard and save/sacrifice. learn to live within your means and invest early, not when hit 31.

  • +2

    I raised my eyebrows when I read they were only saving 10% of their combined income as well.

    I know home ownership can be difficult these days, and there's the portion who have it easy with a boost in funding from family, but come on, a lot of people make sacrifices to afford their own home. On $160k combined income it's odd to say there's no possible way you can save up any more than 10%.

  • +4

    How can anyone choose to spend their entire disposable income until the age of 31 then complain four years later that they cannot afford to buy a home.

    I personally started setting aside money when I first started earning money - before I was even 15.

    Are you actually this oblivious to the fact that people have different life experiences?

    I don't take issue with the rest this post but this part is hilarious.

    • +2

      People CHOOSE how to live their lives.

      This couple chose to spend their money. But they're also complaining about not having enough to buy a house.

      It's like choosing to eat your cake but then complaining that there isn't any left.

      • +2

        Sure, people choose to have mental health issues, suffer abuse, and physical illness.

        You don't know how her life was prior to becoming a teacher. Maybe she suffered from extreme anxiety or depression in her twenties and thus didn't work in the years prior to finishing her studies. Maybe her partner comes from a background of domestic violence and left in his teens and twenties working shit jobs like Macca's and spending most of it on rent while studying.

        There are myriad other reasons someone might not be sitting on a load of savings in their late twenties or early thirties (or indeed any other point in their life) other than frivolous spending. The life experiences you have aren't indicative of anyone else's.

        But maybe I missed the part of the article where she said she spent her twenties travelling the world and partying or buying new gadgets whenever they pop up on OzBargain.

  • Here is a thought, why save for a home when you can put money into growing your own business or building an in demand skill set for contracting. Hard to do anything without income. As for the home… save early and start small. Learn life skills when you are young such as cooking, cleaning, repairs. From an early age you have to be able to identify wants vs needs & valuing your time.

  • +1

    Why not look at Melbourne instead? There are plenty of options to rent under $400 a week within 30min from CBD, Melbourne offers the cheapest rental in the country right now. As to the housing affordability, for $500-750K there are plenty of options to buy established or build new in the North and West and that will be within 30-45min from CBD.
    Plus for houses under $950K VIC government can help with the deposit (up to 25% of purchase price) - https://www.sro.vic.gov.au/homebuyer, that will save you thousands on LMI alone. For under $600K contracts you don't pay stamp duty at all, then you get a stamp duty concession for contracts under $750K and you also get $10K as the first home owner grant that you can put towards your deposit.
    You literally just need to have a job to be able to afford mortgage repayments to buy a house in Melbourne nowadays

    • I've found that many teachers down here are casual or mostly contract based workers (which banks frown upon for giving money), FT employment as a teacher is much harder to come by in VIC than in NSW.
      Maybe that will change with some of the exodus from Melbourne happening with people fed up with always being in a lockdown.
      This state change only works if they're willing and able to move away from all their friends and family and try start again elsewhere, a task much easier said than done.

  • As expected from journalists trying to sell news and generate social debate…

    "We have decent jobs but we've both hit the top of our pay scale so we're never going to earn any more than we are now," she said.

    IMO this here is classic "limiter" thinking here from the interviewee - if she thinks this then she is right - she will never earn any more. Being a teacher she should realise this and push herself like she encourages her students (to strive for more). Sadly being a better teacher does not really equate to much better incomes in Australia - another can of worms. Opportunity to do a side gig maybe.

  • +2

    I would counter your post by stating that YOUR view of the situation seems very "I'm a boomer who got in early and everyone else can suck it".

    You're probably correct in saying that they can afford to save much more than 10%. That's almost guaranteed to be true. Are you suggesting that it's right and fair that a couple should have to forego literally every single creature comfort, work their asses off and do nothing for themselves, no social life, no outings, no movies, no ice cream with the missus on a Saturday night or taking the kids to Dreamworld once a year?

    When my parents bought our first family home they drove around, looked at 10 of them and sat down and decided which of them they liked best and bought it. They based their decision on what they liked best and just flat out purchased it.

    Between immigration and the LNP making home ownership a vehicle for the well-off to get more well-off, they've manually and purposefully done this to the working class of Australia so they and others can get paid.

    People shouldn't have to scrimp and save and spend half their lives living on rice crackers and Kraft singles to be able to afford a 2 bed 1 bath weatherboard nugget 100km west of Penrith by the time they're 40. It's not right, it's not fair, it's absolutely hypocritical of the older generation to expect it.

    • +1

      "I'm a boomer who got in early and everyone else can suck it"

      I'm not a boomer. I'm early 30's

      People shouldn't have to scrimp and save and spend half their lives living on rice crackers and Kraft singles to be able to afford a 2 bed 1 bath weatherboard nugget 100km west of Penrith by the time they're 40.

      I, and a lot of my friends didn't live on rice crackers and Kraft singles. We made calculated compromises that we felt didn't detract materially from what we wanted from our overall lifestyle.

      You make your bed, you sleep in it.

      • +3

        I never said you were a boomer, I said your attitude reeks of being one.

        I am a home owner and made sacrifices too. I just recognise that despite the fact I was able to do it, a lot of other people can't especially with the housing market explosion of COVID. That's the difference between you and I. I haven't got the "I got mine so they can get bent" attitude you seem to have.

        I also can't help but notice you had no comment about the fact that housing is now a commodity instead of a basic human right.

        I'd be VERY interested to know how you bought, where you bought, and for how much and with what help.

        I'll go first. I bought a small fixer-upper in the outskirts of Brisbane for 260k with a deposit comprised 80% of savings and 20% of a small settlement from a class action lawsuit I didn't have much to do with. No LMI.

        Now you.

        • I have been working since I was 14 years and 9 months old at Kmart, Coles, Target and as a Teller at a bank.
          I worked throughout highschool and Uni, and all Christmas holidays.

          2 bedroom apartment, Sydney. $550k. Around 10 years ago. Savings all mine.
          Bought a 3 bedroom apartment, also Sydney. $950k. Around 5 years ago. Deposit was made up of additional savings from current job.

          Both apartments were tired and needed work done to them.

          I have lived in and around housing commission all my life. I appreciate the premise of housing as a basic human right.
          I've lived in shared accomodation almost all of my adult life.

          • +3

            @CrushJelly: Okay well I'll just quickly point out that buying 10 years ago puts you right at the end of the global financial crisis right at the base of a pretty steep climb in property prices so between equity and your pretty meek mortgage you can't argue you're on a good wicket.

            You also mention that you've been working since 14 and presumably saving throughout your life. Are you saying everyone should do that? Because when I was 14 I was worried more about movies and music and hanging out with my friends than I was about an impending housing affordability crisis. I had a job but I spent the money on CD's and stuff. My parents were not financially responsible and squandered the greatest opportunities offered to them because they're bad with money.

            So people who are bad with money because no one ever taught them deserve to pay inflated rent for life?

            I don't understand how you think your position on this is defensible. Whilst you COULD be correct in the subjects of the news article being entitled turds I really cannot fathom how you don't think there's an issue here. The only explanation I can think of is that you're riding the wave yourself and aren't prepared to budge on your position as ipso-facto you're a hypocrite if you do.

            • -1

              @sir-screwball: Saving throughout my life doesn't mean that I didn't spend on things that mattered to me.
              I take pride in the CD collection that I've created since before MP3 was a thing. I love gaming, computers, consoles, anything technology, audiophile equipment and cars. Not necessarily cheap thrills and not necessarily items that last many years either.

              What I don't spend that much on are things like high end dining, alcohol or cigarettes. I don't see value in them. But that's my opinion.

              I absolutely don't see how rent is all inflated. For my apartments, we've dropped rent from $750 to $400 (2 bedroom) and from $900 to $500 (3 bedroom) since the start of lockdowns last year. We haven't increased them since due to the number of vacant properties on the market.
              If rent is too steep in one area, there are always other options. That's the whole point of renting - you're not obliged to stay in one area only.

              • +6

                @CrushJelly: If you're properly objective you should be able to see how your argument isn't an argument at all, you're simply stating anecdotal talking points that support your current situation.

                For every CrushJelly out there who supported their tenants, there were 10 landlords who were pushing to evict people who'd lost their jobs because either their precious bottom line was being affected or they'd over leveraged their houses to get into the investment market so badly they were risking their own home in the house of cards their portfolio was propped upon.

                Anyway I won't reply any further because you're not addressing any of the points I'm making. Here's a list:

                • You're riding a wave of house pricing yourself whilst deriding those who aren't in a position to buy
                • You're predicating your entire argument on children being given sound financial guidance by their parents
                • You're not a person who bought in the current market, rather in the most ideal period of housing affordability in the past 20 years
                • You don't seem interested in acknowledging theirs a housing affordability issue

                You're literally sitting atop your little nest egg that you've feathered for yourself from a position of privilege whilst you deride those who can't do the same because those positions of privilege don't exist for them.

                C'mon man, you're as transparent as glad wrap.

                • -1

                  @sir-screwball:

                  You're riding a wave of house pricing yourself whilst deriding those who aren't in a position to buy

                  I'm not riding any wave. Every single day I make decisions based on the assets I have at my disposal at any particular point in time.
                  I don't see what's evil about that.

                  from a position of privilege

                  Based on what, specifically?

                  You're predicating your entire argument on children being given sound financial guidance by their parents

                  You aren't a child until you magically turn 31 and then turn into an adult. The couple in the ABC article started saving at age 31.
                  That's a kidult, if anything.

                  You're not a person who bought in the current market, rather in the most ideal period of housing affordability in the past 20 years

                  We exchanged contracts on an off-market landed property opportunity 2 weeks ago. We definitely did buy in the current market.

                  You don't seem interested in acknowledging theirs a housing affordability issue

                  There are plenty of others that acknowledge this. You don't need my blessing.

                  • +5

                    @CrushJelly: This is pointless.

                    You're riding the wave. You bought a house during the price trough in the wake of the GFC, then sat on it until it appreciated, used that to buy more and more and more properties. You are literally the problem, which is why you won't admit that there is a problem because you are then admitting you are actively contributing due to nothing more than abject greed.

                    You're just a selfish boomer born too late to hold the moniker for real.

                    • +4

                      @sir-screwball: This guy has a point though, OP you are definitely riding the wave, you're only fooling yourself lol

                      Bought an apartment right after GFC, bought another one (presumably leveraging equity you had) and had like 6k a month (pre-covid) in rent coming in, plus you just landed another property off market?

                      You are the definition of privileged whether you like it or not, what's so hard to understand?

                      Also who knows why they only they only started saving to buy a property for four years (when I was saving for a deposit, I lost nearly 40% of what I saved in my 20's to trying to save a family member dying of cancer overseas, not everything is black and white).

                      The article clearly leaves a lot of information which leads to emotional reactions, but based on your replies OP, it's clear you're a lot more entitled than this couple in the article

                  • @CrushJelly:

                    from a position of privilege
                    Based on what, specifically?

                    You may not see it but being born at literally the right time in this case is a privilege.
                    It's borderline for the current generation to be able to get into the property market.
                    Think about the future generation who are going to require a ridiculously disproportionate deposit before even considering a house.

                    Australia's birth rate is declining for a reason.
                    Live a happy, comfortable life in a home that you can afford
                    or
                    Pop out a kid and condemn yourself to living in a heavily compromised sh1th0le

            • @sir-screwball: Sir-screball, are you implying it is every citizens right to own their property?
              What is wrong with renting?

              Where do you draw the line?
              Basic right to have a car, internet, electricity, job?
              Should the government make all these things free?

              Renting a dwelling still provides the occupants shelter. In most cases it is cheaper to rent than purchase, so the landlord is subsidising the tennant.

              You also cite about winning the lottery if you were in the property market 10 years ago.

              Would the shoe be on the other foot if the property prices went down/stagnated, like in Perth over the last 10 years?

              Do you have the same view of those with share holdings? The sharemarket on average out performs the property market.

              • +3

                @hothed: No I'm not implying that it's every citizen's right to own their own property and that's a ridiculous straw-man you're trotting out to attempt to nullify my point.

                There's nothing wrong with renting, I never said that there was. There's something wrong with a person who decides they'd like to buy a house being priced out permanently by the factors that have been engineered by our government, that exist solely for people to make money off the housing market.

                I'm not going to reply to the car, internet, electricity garbage because it's hyperbolic. Same with this ridiculous notion about the government making all things free.

                Renting a dwelling provides shelter? Are you high? Of course it does, but so does standing under a piece of galvanised iron. We're talking about home ownership not staying dry when it rains. And no, in the current market the house can sit empty and still appreciate significantly in value so your dumb point about subsidising the renter is null and void.

                The shoe would not be on the other foot if prices went down because that would mean housing is no longer the bullish perpetually upticking market it is now (thanks to artificial help from the government) and people would offload their holdings, rather cheaply, likely to people who've been trying to get into the market and being priced out. Duh? What's your point with that?

                Share holdings are another thing entirely, don't get me started on the 'state funded welfare for the rich' franking credit system. That aside, shares aren't something people generally need to survive whereas housing is. If you horde shares to yourself no one is disadvantaged. The well-off are hoarding houses and it's driving rents and prices through the roof pricing young people out of the market… so I mean since you seem to struggle with basic logic I'll spell it out for you: One hurts people, the other generally speaking doesn't (at the street level at least).

                • +1

                  @sir-screwball: Are you familiar with supply and demand?

                  In the inner suburbs of cities there is limited supply of housing. Demand for these properties is high, so purchasers compete with each other pushing the price up. This is simple economics.

                  If they can't afford to buy a house in a partiuclar location (again, they can keep renting if they wish, as its cheaper than owning a house), they can choose to purchase a property elsewhere where the supply is higher or demand is lower, like on the fringe of the city or a regional community.

                  An owner occupied home or rented home does not increase the supply of housing stock. There is still only one house.

                  Are you implying the market should be controlled by the government?

                  What is your the solution you're proposing?

                  As you seem to struggle with basic logic, i'll spell it out for you. You're just having a whinge and dont have a grasp of how basic economics work.

                  • +1

                    @hothed: Man this is just bemusing at this point.

                    There are multiple factors that affect housing affordability. Some of them are not predatory in nature such as immigration, but others such as CGT discounts and negative gearing, inaction on overseas investors buying up packets of property and leaving them intentionally vacant etc absolutely inflate the property market beyond normal levels.

                    I'm implying that the government should remove the CGT discount, remove negative gearing, make interest only mortgages only partially deductible up to a limit. I mean I can sit here and come up with a thousand measures but the point is that nothing will be done as long as people in power and those buying up these properties continue to give virtually zero fks about those who are being shut out of the system.

                    I am not a legislator, I am a voter and I vote on this issue every single election. I was thrilled with Bill Shorten's approach in the last election about limiting negative gearing as it was a step in the right direction. Lo and behold, the policy-less LNP teamed up with their best mate Rupert "I control elections" Murdoch to convince Australians that limiting the refundability of franking credits was somehow a death tax, inheritance tax, retiree tax etc and there we go, the problem continues. The irony of this outcome is that the same people who decry the welfare system for being a waste of money, for being a handout system to lazy people who don't want to work etc, also got up in arms about their precious franking credits which are literally just welfare by another name. The government pays a refund which can drop the tax bill into the positives and pay the excess back. It's a rort but because it's the LNP's rort it is protected.

                    I come here to call out the property investors for what they are - They're selfish, greedy and transparent. I doubt anything will ever get done because money makes the world go round and it's money driving this push and it's always going to be money but if it ever happens I'll be right there applauding those who made it happen.

                    It's not my job to fix the issue, those people are part of the problem which speaks to the futility of the whole discussion. That won't stop me from coming here and calling people like the OP out for being what they are. Call me a whinger but it doesn't bother me. What bothers me is people spouting their delusions as some type of superiority over people who's biggest crime in this mess is simply being born too late.

  • +1

    Don't worry guys, when they drop the bomb, we won't have to worry about this stuff.

  • +5

    Yes pretty much a ridiculous article - fake news?

    They need to increase their savings rate to at least 25%.

    This article could easily be focussed on the fact she was living at home until 31 but didn't save any money to that point. Id say that's the main cause of finding it tough now. In takes teachers 10 years to max out their income, which suggests she was at least 6 years into teaching at 31.

    Despite that, they are making a lifestyle choice to save little since then. That's OK if they want to live like that, but it's not a reasonable basis for an article on being locked out of the housing market. A single mother cleaner from Sydney earning 40k/year would probably be a better example.

    • +1

      Very much this. For about 10yrs, my income was around the $100k mark (still is). Take home pay is ~$75k. I was still able to save up $20k at bare minimum per annum each and every year.

  • +3

    "People CHOOSE how to live their lives"

    They also choose when & where to be born. AMIRITE?

    • +2

      "We don't get to choose how we start in this life. Real greatness is what you do with the hand you're dealt."

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