According to https://search.brave.com/search?q=bitcoin+price&source=web
In the past month Bitcoin has lost 20% of it's value are we about to experience a cryptocurrency crash?
Why Is Bitcoin Crashing?
Comments
Turkey still exists but the Lira's value is like bag of š„šš©.
@rektrading: Agreed, after seeing this and what happens to things like the USD and AUD over time, it's obvious that you need to put your money in assets rather than keeping it in the bank doing nothing.
@supersabroso: That's the whole point. Imagine a currency that increased greater than assets: nobody would every spend it. Economies collapse. As money devalues it encourages people to do things with it: build houses, businesses, earn more money, pay tax, etc. This is good.
@CJ31: Fiat money inflation encourages smart people to buy hard assets.
Stonks, real estate and digital asset prices go up to the right, fiat money purchasing power goes down to the right.
The network is the value and it's protected (guaranteed) by +1,000,000 computers. It's the most secure network ever created with a 99.98 up time.
How much would someone pay for a network that has never been hacked?
@rektrading: Nothing. It's an anarchistic mess that would be utterly unprofitable.
About the only way to making money would be buy and ship all the small miner PCs to a central area, sort and sell them off in a fire sale. I don't the owners would sell for what you could offer.
You could buy it and try and run it, but then you would have to pay the former owners to manage the mining computers, buy an internet connection for each (ludicrous for a single PC setup) and arrange electricity. Financial suicide.
Any serious attempt would involve cutting all small miners completely and just focusing on big mining operations. All the angry mini-miners would of course dump their Bitcoins and try to meme Bitcoin into permanent collapse, while switching to another crypto.
Not to mention nobody would invest in it if it was entirely owned by one entity. It voids the entire ethos. I would have the power to change any transaction, 100% control unlike the distributed system with independent checking. I could charge any fee I wanted. 20% transaction fee anyone? Not a bad idea I could make a lot of money on the panic crash selling. 20% to be precise.
Ultimately the value is in the coins, people buying and selling coins don't care if a miners come and go. They wouldn't care of you got rid of 50% of the miners or 75% do long as it kept functioning. So what is the 50% that doesn't matter worth? Or the 75% that doesn't matter? Nothing.
cash doesn't retain its value because of inflation… but you're right that there is nothing that guarantees its value.
Well yeah, I glossed over the value of scrap metal because of its insignificance.
That guaranteed value is merely one of itself, how much you can buy for a dollar is not at all guaranteed and constantly decreases. The value of bitcoin is only backed by the market, but thatās a pretty solid guarantee if itās actually an accepted currency. If you can buy stuff with it then it has intrinsic value. Its current volatility is due to the degree of speculation and our reliance on fiat over crypto, but thatās not relevant to its viability as a currency in itself.
But the fact of the matter is that coins and bills/notes are guaranteed their value by the national bank of the country that issues them - thus they always retain that value unless the country ceases to exist (or permanent anarchy is 'invoked').
That's actually a big reason why the creators of bitcoin created it.
The value of your fiat money isn't "guaranteed". Central banks are constatly printing money out of their own will, effectively taxing us and making the money we've all earnt, worth less then it did yesterday.
Some reckon that this kind of system helps to enrich those closes to the money printers. Having a rule based currency is supposed to put us all on a fairer playing field
@Butt Scratcher: I'm getting this in before someone says inflation is good for the economy.
A 3.8% 1Y inflation rate may not bother ozb millionaires with multiple IP but it's a big deal for disadvantaged people. It kills savings, has a negative effect on fiat money hodlers and rewards asset-rich people.
Nothing has true value. Especially fiat currency.
That's like saying people are realising that money is a joke, anyone can create their own currency therefore infinite supply. Good luck finding people that will use, accept and buy into that money. There are people that actually use crypto everyday, not just to invest in but as a real world solution. For normal people like us, defi is the next generation of money. Why earn 0.5% interest in the bank when you can earn 10-20% in crypto with stablecoins pegged to real dollars? The peg has never broken in the entire history of the human race.
Omicron is scaring a lot of markets and since people who own crypto are too easily spooked. Donāt expect crypto to be stable.
crypto used to be the asset people bought like gold - too many people bought crypto - prob just realising gains
Crypto was always considered to be like gold and marketed as gold but it has never behaved like gold. Something to ponder.
Cant make an AK47 out of crypto. Just sayin
Where's that guy who reckons it's the future FIAT currency.
To be honest, I think if we were to have a currency (international/digital?) which increases in capacity it should be pegged to the world's population.
This is around 0.9% to 1.3% yearly, which is much less than the common 4% figure. That way it can't be recklessly printed, and cause inflation.
Inflation isnāt a bug, itās a feature. Inflation is intentional and too little (like too much) causes serious dysfunction. Deflation is catastrophic.
Yes. It's a feature to steal people's savings and force them to be wage slaves.
@rektrading: Without inflation thereās no salaries at all basically. Because why employ someone to do something today when you can wait and do it cheaper tomorrow?
If Bitcoin became a global replacement for fiat then anyone without significant money in it at that exact moment would be doomed to poverty, but not for long, society would collapse within weeks and bullets would be the new currency.
@[Deactivated]: I know people that get paid 100% in Bitcoin.
Their time is exchanged for the hardest asset ever created. An asset that is capped and cannot be inflated away by the whims of the feds.
Their time is protected, their savings are protected and their future is protected.
I know people that get paid 100% in Bitcoin.
Yeah, escorts, drug dealers.
An asset that is capped and cannot be inflated away by the whims of the feds.
Its value can be outright obliterated by the feds. They don't need to inflate it away.
Their time is protected, their savings are protected and their future is protected.
The person paying them is getting rid of something they regard as less valuable than what they'd have to pay them in fiat instead and they're inheriting a tax liability that could see them imprisoned if not paid. Smart move!
Yeah, escorts, drug dealers.
Nocoiners that still live in 2009 is ngmi.
Baseball team to pay players in bitcoin in world first for professional sport
Anthony Cuthbertson November 17, 2021Ā·2 min read
An Australian baseball team has become the first professional sports team in the world to pay its players and staff in bitcoin.Perth Heat, who play in the Australian Baseball League, will also sell merchandise, club memberships and tickets with bitcoin after partnering with cryptocurrency payments firm OpenNode.
The self-styled āBitcoin Baseball Teamā announced on Wednesday that it had appointed a chief bitcoin officer to shift its corporate treasury from Australian dollars to bitcoin.
āAs part of the sporting world exclusive, Perth Heat will Hodl bitcoin on the clubās balance sheet,ā the club stated in a press release.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/baseball-team-pay-players-bitā¦.
Its value can be outright obliterated by the feds. They don't need to inflate it away.
China tried that. It didn't work
@rektrading: China canāt do squat about the value outside China.
The US can make an enormous impact and in the end the only relevant country is the one you want to spend it in.
Also, we have professional baseball players here?
@rektrading: ROFL.
Hilarious. They regulate things out of existence continuously. They canāt ban Bitcoin, no one is suggesting thatās even possible, they can simply make it nearly impossible to convert into USD.
@[Deactivated]: That don't make any sense.
The US has no intention to regulate it "out of existence". They want taxes. They can't tax if they force the industry to move to Canada, Portugal, Mexico, Dubai, Singapore, El Salvador, the Bahamas, Hong Kong, etc.
There are plenty of friendly countries that would love to give them a red carpet welcome.
https://blog.tezro.com/crypto-friendly-countries/There are plenty of mobile apps that people can use to pay direct to the merchant without using legacy payment rails. They can't ban them either.
@rektrading: I didnāt say they were going to, I said they could, because you donāt think they will doesnāt mean they cannot.
I know someone that ran a payment app, they couldnāt ban that, the moment he set foot in the US he was arrested for money laundering though, facing 75 years in jail.
They canāt āstopā cryptocurrency but you can bet your bottom dollar if it did half the things you think it did they can make it extremely unattractive very fast, precisely to preserve taxation.
And Australia was planning to ban cash transactions above $10,000 so yeah, itās actually a thing where you might not be able to āstopā such transactions but you can definitely legislate consequences for them. They avoid much more tax than is gained by allowing them.
@rektrading: They could cripple it in many ways.
I'm surprised mining hasn't been outlawed more globally yet.
Such a massive waste of energy, especially when the whole world is so concerned about CO2 emissions, and yet we have countless warehouses full of expensive computer equipment running flat out 24/7 - and doing no useful work at all.
It reminds me of the trees on Easter Island.
@trapper: Smart countries promote and embrace the industry. They put up ads telling businesses and brains to come set up shop.
China which is normally smart shot itself when they ban miners and local CEX from trading. All the revenue has now moved to friendlier places where they get the red carpet treatment.
@rektrading: Isn't it odd that I can have a warehouse full of computers churning away, using an astronomical amount of energy, and doing no useful work at all, whilst at the same time am restricted from lighting that same warehouse using incandescent bulbs due to the minimum performance standards of lighting products?
This oversight will not last forever.
@rektrading: Also double checked, they have the āoptionā to be paid in Bitcoin, so itās a publicity stunt. Wiling to bet that will likely mean zero uptake or zero past the first pay packet.
@[Deactivated]: I think the "theory" of a constant and low inflation, is to cause and give reason for companies to keep innovating and doing business, so that their money continues to grow and that it doesn't shrink.
Only that it doesn't work "in practice" to large corporations who spend their revenue on business expenses, purposely, to show a net loss or very little profits realised. This way they avoid the bigger pitfall, which is paying taxes. We shouldn't try to get around it with reckless investments, as those cause many problems but aren't realised years and years later (eg Dotcom bubble). On top of that, you do have loopholes and safe-havens to store your wealth for XYZ reasons.
I agree, deflation of a currency will put pressure to sit on the money… which can potentially be devastating (but usually won't be). And inflation can have many small benefits. However, on the whole it plays out like inflation is a Tax on the poor. Inefficiencies and corruptions exist on every run of the financial ladder… this is merely a question of how to minimise that.
I feel like a very low inflation is the best way, but it has to be automatic and pegged to something tangible. We cannot leave it to the Wbankers and Polieticians to do it. Otherwise, you have the current scenario of almost 60% aud printed, 50% usd printed, and 20% euro printed. And covid is not a valid excuse for it, they are trying to say that based on their charts/projections which are theories. You can't trust the Federal Reserve to behave responsible and fair, especially since nothing is gold/silver/copper backed, or backed by anything tangible. This isn't just to the elder generation going into retirement, or the current working generation, but also to the future generations that are even unborn. It's just like using all natural resources now, and leaving the future generations hung dry… what they do today has ramifications decades later and we don't have the capacity to hold them liable for it.
…so yeah, that's my take. Monetary system is important, they should be controlled/automated from an objective point and not influenced from a subjective outlook.
@Kangal: Inflation/deflation has nothing to do with taxes.
Think of it this way, to build anything, you need to buy materials, put in labour, produce an end product. This could take months in the case of say a building, or even years. Who would do that if the materials and labour are cheaper tomorrow? Because that will lower the value of the finished product, and thus remove the profit. Instead of profiting from producing value, it costs you. The successful business strategy would be just to sit on all your money and do literally nothing with it until inflation returns. The same goes for an Individual, why buy that house/car/thing now if it will be cheaper next year guaranteed? Deflation is basically a recipe for mass unemployment and poverty.
Deflation is thus catastrophic, high inflation is the reverse problem, thereās no point selling anything because holding onto it means it will fetch you more tomorrow. Low inflation means things are more likely to find their most productive use.
The RBA in Australia is charged with maintaining inflation between 2-3% for a reason. Theyāve actually been falling short of that inflation target, theyād have to effectively print more to meet their objective target.
I donāt think people really understand all money is valueless beyond its utility to facilitate trade in commodities that have intrinsic value, that applies to fiat currencies and cryptocurrencies just the same.
Unless youāre holding large amounts of currency a low amount of inflation doesnāt really have any impact on you, rich or poor, because theoretically your wages and assets are also increasing, so thereās a net zero effect on your circumstances while maintaining positive economic benefits for everyone.
If youāre hiding money under your mattress to avoid paying taxes or declaring income, the more inflation the worse for you though.
Basically you want an objective target for inflation, and we have one, and the only way itās failed in the last decade or so is by not actually printing enough money! The consequences of that have been stagnant wages and high house prices!
@[Deactivated]: Deflation isn't as straight forward like that. Just because something might be slightly cheaper to do next year, doesn't mean people will put it off. On the contrary, people will spend the money as they do in Inflation Markets. Not to mention the value of an asset changes as you spend money on it, so while it might have been cheaper to build that house next year, the house itself will potentially be more valuable if it built the year prior. Remember, there are secondary forces at play.
…but on the whole, I understand what you are trying to say about deflation, and I am not disagreeing with you. I'm just trying to point out you're not entirely correct, as the markets never behave according to textbook predictions.Getting back to the matter at hand…
So let me get this straight, we've printed an extra -60% of AUD in the last 48 months, and despite that, the currency has only lost -2% of its value.Are you trying to say: Australia has performed a miracle, economically speaking, to the point where the intrinsic value of the AUD has gone up +58% in that period?
I find that factually wrong.
The value of the AUD will drop proportionally to the amount it's printed. Basic law of supply and demand. Or the value of it will go up as money isn't printed but the economy performs well/is productive. If you double the supply overnight without any changes to productivity, essentially that asset has now halved in value.Comparing our AUD to the USD is more forgiving since both currencies have gone Bbbrrrtt. But if you compare it to a standard good such as Oil, Coal, Iron, Copper, Milk, Wheat, Gold etc etc, you should be seeing the effects there. Given that those goods aren't affected by external forces like drought, storm, embargo, shortage, or speculative investment etc etc.
A more probable explanation is that the excess money has not trickled down to the mainstream yet. It's been tucked into speculative markets such as crypto, stocks, and real estate. Technically we have been in hyper inflation for more than a year now but the stimulus has helped bridge the gap for now. And after another year, those funds that are locked in other markets are going to seep into the mainstream. It's like those cause-effect diagrams from school, where a plentiful spring leads to more rabbits breeding for next year, which leads to more wolves breeding the year after. The cause has a staggered result on the effect.
So average prices are going slip. For instance, if 2L milk used to cost $2.10 back in 2019, at max it should be $2.30 next year. However, it has actually been stable at around $2.40 for now, in the next year it will hit $3.00 and won't come down from that price point. And this will happen to most goods, then services will follow, then social issues will rise, and lastly it will force the market to increase wages for the everyman. After a slow period to normalisation, then we will hit the next recession/economic slump, and it will cycle itself all over again like it has time and time again (US has had one about every 7 years, at least 12 in the past +80 years dating back to the Great Depression and even further).
The value of the AUD will drop proportionally to the amount it's printed.
Value 'in what' though?
Your assumption relies on there being a fixed amount of other things.
we've printed an extra -60% of AUD
The way it was done isn't quite as simple as actually printing money. But sure.
Absolutely there's an inflationary limit to money printing, that's why the RBA has that as their target.
So average prices are going slip. For instance, if 2L milk used to cost $2.10 back in 2019, at max it should be $2.30 next year. However, it has actually been stable at around $2.40 for now, in the next year it will hit $3.00 and won't come down from that price point.
Milk's a really bad example because the price of milk has actually decreased in the past and it's tracking well, well below inflation on average over a longer term. Groceries as a whole were actually decreasing for several years.
it will force the market to increase wages for the everyman.
This is already happening, faster than most commodities are increasing (save housing).
Having some form of fixed currency isn't a solution, the fluctuations in currency (properly managed) actually help cushion the swings, not accelerate them. Have a look at the issues in say Greece, when they were part of the Euro, and thus their currency couldn't change to absorb the impact. The result is a much bigger impact on the everyday person while currency fluctuations have much less impact to the essentials.
Value 'in what' though?
Your assumption relies on there being a fixed amount of other things.Well, I tend to look at the AUD as not an investment but more like an Asset. It has intrinsic value. Its purpose is to be a medium of exchange, and hence requires value. The value of itself can be compared to goods/services, or better yet compared to itself historically.
Absolutely there's an inflationary limit to money printing, that's why the RBA has that as their target.
My point was that the RBA is run by people who have their own viewpoints and subjective opinions. They may attempt to do a task objectively, but the root is that they aren't without bias. It is very simple for that position to be abused, and the ramifications are huge.
Milk's a really bad example
I have to agree. It gets affected quiet often in Australia by drought and export conditions. I didn't have a better example ready. Price of oil was my target, but that's controlled by the OPEC cartels so it's not a free market.
This is already happening, faster than most commodities are increasing (save housing).
Do you have any evidence?
It's certainly not happening in my market, or the greater job market from what I gather. And in theory, I have to disagree. Wages are the last to increase. If we're talking about trickle-down, it's the scraps that get shared. It's why generation after generation the wealth gap expands.Having some form of fixed currency isn't a solution, the fluctuations in currency (properly managed) actually help cushion the swings, not accelerate them.
I agree. But it's a very difficult task. And you risk exasperating the situation. Hence why a fixed-function currency makes a lot of sense. You want to be as transparent and forthcoming as possible, and not the smoke and mirrors what we have now.
Greece, when they were part of the Euro
Lol, they still are. Greece had and has a lot of problems, the main one being they're not stable industry wise. Without tourism they're very vulnerable. Not sure how they're coping after the 2019 fires and then covid.
@[Deactivated]: Not just that, ask anyone who still holds it. Probably they all sold it before it crashed… lol
I know people that get paid 100% in Bitcoin.
Let me know when their salary is actually denominated in Bitcoin.
Also it's weird that people dream of a currency the government has no control over anyway.
You know how that ends up? The rich end up with all the coins and the poor end up with none.
And with no inflationary pressure they can just sit on that big pile of coins forever with no reason to invest or spend any of it (beyond their day to day rich person desires)
Awaiting rektrading for the official answer
Trading 101. Buy low, sell high.
Bitcoin is dipping so that more people can BTFD.
It's also taking the AUD with it.
https://ibb.co/4PdsrBpWhat the hell has bitcoin got to do with the value of AUD?
Literally nothing. Correlation does not equal causation.
The DXY shows an up trend since the start of December.
The AUD has risk exposure. Traders are selling assets for USD.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
So too for those who spend our time looking at candlebar graphs..
Exactly as Sleeqb7 says. AUD is a risk on asset; BTC is the ultimate risk on asset. They are both thus likely to move together as investor risk appetite moves -as they are doing (in a downward direction) in response to Omicron.
AUD is a risk on asset
Wut
AUD is a currency, not an asset.
@EightImmortals: Which part? The CFDs where you don't even own the currency?
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/657797Or by definition fiat currency isn't asset backed.
@deme: Anything I hold which has value for exchange is an asset. If I have $100 dollars in my pocket, do I not have an asset? It is a risk on asset -people hold more of it and hold AUD-denominated assets when they are looking to take more investment risk.
O going viral will ensure that the feds keep printing fiat money into 2022 and beyond.
Upvoted for mad paint skills
Memes are good when prices go up and when it goes down.
Thanks. Much appreciated.
BUY HIGH SELL LOW
it's the only way to go!I don't short in a bull market.
Well lucky BTC is in a bear market now itās down 20%, so short away
@rektrading: yea I know, i've heard it all.
Crypto bull says:
Crypto is an inflation hedge, like gold.
Me:
Inflation is high right now and crypto crashes.Crypto bull says:
Crypto is a currency.
Me:
No one uses it to pay for anything, even the fanboys like Michael Saylor argues against its use…Crypto bull says:
Crypto it's great for transferring money around instantly.
Me:
Wasn't there a crypto conference that started accepting crypto and then stopped because it become too expensive and slow to process the transactions?Crypto is amazing, it's nothing and yet something. If I try to define it, I get told not to. If I don't define it, I'm told i don't understand it. If i call it a bear market, I'm told, it has it's own definition for words that it'll happily adopt.
@cloudy: Have you heard the one where I can put up 5 Bitcoin, borrow $160,000 fiat money, buy 3 Bitcoin, pay 1% interest and not worry about taxes?
That's not something normies can do with stonks, gold or real estate.
@rektrading: gosh, gloating about taking margin loans and demean sensible people who don't like to gamble as normies, lol.
So if you did that friday (all what i heard on the news and OP post), you would have 8 bitcoins, $160,000 loan and be at a lost of approx 8 x 9,000 in paper loss, plus got a interest rate to pay.
call me normie, but i'd pass on the offer.
@cloudy: Drawdowns are part of the game. It's the price of admission to the best performing asset class.
@cloudy: There is no need to gloat.
It's a PSA about how legacy banks are getting blockbusted.
https://twitter.com/NewsAsset/status/1467873413641474057?t=hā¦
Trading 101. Buy low, sell high.
Ahhh
So thats where Iāve been going wrongIt has nothing to do with right or wrong.
You can make money shorting a bull market but be prepared to get rekt when whales go stop-loss hunting.
It's about the same price it was in January, so it's gone nowhere.
and its about 100% up since June.
and it's about 25% down since last month
and it's about 8% down since SaturdayIt's volatile, but I wouldn't say it's crashing.
Lots of people selling off to pay for Christmas presents? I know a few that did.
It crashed in December 2017 so maybe you're on to something.
Elon King has decreed the crypto must go down so he can buy coins to sell for the next capital raising. Hail Elon!
Might have something to do with the potential collapse of the chinese developer Evergrande.
News FUD about Evergrande, news of potential increasing regulation (that would actually be a good thing for Bitcoin long term), and the Fed warning about tapering having an impact on all markets (although whether they actually do is another question)
Lols, the dog ate my homework?
This is what happens when you Gamble.
You risk loosing your money
Welllllā¦ unless you have a strategy that breaks the laws of mathematics and rouletteā¦
ask Elon
He said he's busy selling his Tesla shares.
Because ālulzā
Sir that is a casino
Cash only for gumtree transactions
Cheers, got one.
2014 Bitcoin is just Tulip mania get out now!!!! - $3k
2017 Bitcoin is just Tulip mania get out now!!!! - $20k
2021 Bitcoin is just Tulip mania get out now!!!! - $49k
lulz
Bitcoin $29k to $69k. Crickets everywhere. When it corrects, everyone's heads pops out of their burrows. Correction probably not over. Bids ready.
is it like
60k buy the dip
55k buy the dip
50k buy the dip
45k buy the dip
40k buy the dip
35k buy the dip
30k buy the dip
lolz
You only buy the last dip boofhead!
The CEO of tatts once told me you only buy the winning lotto numbers, dw about the others.
Such sage advice, ty
One must buy the deputy Dip of the dip of the dip dip.
sounds like a great averaging down strat!
2020's bitcoin mum-and-dad investor…I am hearing a lot about this new "Omicron", how can I buy shares in it?
Most people don't understand the amount of people that are using coin miners.
Crypto simply doesn't work like a commodity market or a stock exchange, despite what some people wish…
Leverage.
Yep it āātwas the sound of stop limits popping out over the weekend. Only time will tell if more punters arrive to pickup those flushed out.
BitMart will use our own funding to cover the incident and compensate affected users. We are also talking to multiple project teams to confirm the most reasonable solutions such as token swaps. No user assets will be harmed.
"nothing to see here, move along folks"
Partially true. Physical coins of course have scrap metal values, although these are much lower (in general) than the face value of the coin. In the old days (way before any of us were born), coins physical scrap value matched (as close as possible) their face value. It took King Edward III three attempts to get his new golden noble to be accepted in the 14th century, rather than just being melted down immediately for the gold value.
But the fact of the matter is that coins and bills/notes are guaranteed their value by the national bank of the country that issues them - thus they always retain that value unless the country ceases to exist (or permanent anarchy is 'invoked'). What guarantees the value of a bitcoin?…