Looking for Advice on Joint Ownership of a Van with Friends

jwrathall on 02/01/2022 - 22:39

I, like many, am increasing in my desire to purchase a van, to then refurbish it to travel the country in. However, like a true OzBargainer, I am voraciously searching for how to avoid spending more than I need to, to get what I want.

Given that to buy a reasonably new van and renovate it nicely costs a lot these days, 4 of my friends and I have discussed the idea of co-purchasing a van and sharing the cost of renovating, maintenance, income, sales, as neither of us want it full time, but for the occasional weekend, small-medium road trip, festival, etc. I thought that I could draft up an agreement/contract to make it as fair and clear as possible in all the areas below. I would love your opinions on whether you think this is smart/stupid/in-between idea, or whether you might have done something like this before, and any lessons? Perhaps you could comment on the contract items that I've drafted below, or add some parts that might be important to resolve? Cheers!

DRAFT CONTRACT ITEMS

Agreeing on Vehicle selection and purchase

Common Ownership and Share Percentages

Clarifying up-front and future cost/income division and payment from a common fund
Purchase
Mileage
Servicing
Fuel
Registrations
Damages
Fines/Tolls/Demerit Points
Car Washing
Rent Income
Insurance
Separate items and accessories within Vehicle that can be excluded, ie subwoofer

Conditions of Use
For how long and how many times per year can each party use the Vehicle?
How is the Vehicle to be rented out, by which company(s) and how does this relate to Owner use regarding priority?
Where will the Vehicle be parked?
Identify where and how bookings are to be made, and how priority is given
Is there nuance in the value of Owner bookings in peak/offpeak periods, such as Christmas, weekends, long weekends, seasons?
How are Inspections/Damage undertaken/managed?
Authority to make decisions
One Owner, or jointly based (majority or unanimous)?

Appointment and Arrangement of Vehicle Manager
Ensure payments required of all Owners into the Common Fund
Purchase and maintain Accessories as required
Manage all dealings relating to

Insurance
Maintenance/Servicing/Repairs
Who will be the insurer?
Coverage amount
Who’s name will the policy be under?
How many drivers can be included in the policy?
If an Owner commits a driving infraction which increases the cost of the insurance, then that person will be responsible for the increase in the premiums

Dispute Resolution Process

Exit/Sale/Termination/Death clauses

Procedures for admitting new sharers

Valuation

Automotive

Comments

    • 82norm on 04/01/2022 - 08:25
      +4

      Close mates are going to be more reliable than wife/husband? Not even sure how to decipher that comment.

      • CocaKoala on 04/01/2022 - 09:53

        Close mates are going to be more reliable than wife/husband? Not even sure how to decipher that comment.

        One possible explanation is that SkMed has been spending too much time fixing the bomb car shared with their "close mates" so they lost a string of partners over the years of bomb car ownership.

        • SkMed on 04/01/2022 - 19:49

          Haha, I didn't do any work to it at all 🤣 we just drove it into the ground and went to the wrekers a few years after buying it from my GF at the time for a few hundred $$. She was getting a new car and was gonna send it to the wreckers herself, so I just kept it running a few more years until it died for good.

      • SkMed on 04/01/2022 - 19:45

        The reality is that divorces and seperations are far more common than good/lifelong mates parting ways. Seperations/divorces regularly end in shit fights, legal action and potentially half your stuff being forcibly taken by law which is very unlikely to happen in a friendship. Marriages/partnerships are much more complicated than friendships generally, a lot more that can go wrong, so making joint purchases with really good lifelong friends is less risky statistically speaking.

        • May4th on 04/01/2022 - 19:56

          well then, might as well buy together since the partner will take 50% in a divorce/separation anyway!

  • funnysht on 04/01/2022 - 08:16

    You will soon need to learn how to draw Ms paint diagram(s)

  • May4th on 04/01/2022 - 10:40

    How much do you want to lose those friends? It's a recipe for disaster worse than buying a property together. Everyone will differ in how much use they get, and maintenance/repairs will be a headache and create friction. It's a lot of money to be tied up what if someone has financial difficulties and want to sell their stake? Listen to the advice above, you will save a lot of money, sleep and friends by just hiring when needed. Or one person own the van and lease out to friends on per use basis

  • Gordon61B on 04/01/2022 - 10:46

    If you and each of your friends can afford to buy a van outright, independently, then you can afford the possible issues that arise. If money isn't an issue this might work.

    • May4th on 04/01/2022 - 10:56

      In which case why dont they buy it independently and lend/lease it out to friends as needed if money is not an issue?

      • Gordon61B on 04/01/2022 - 13:02
        +1

        Just because they have the money doesn't mean they want to spend all of it on a van. There are some economies of scale if you can make it work. (I think we'd be a lot better off if we could share more assets with each other. Of course easier said than done. But the planet would be better off, and we'd be (collectively) wealthier.)

        • May4th on 04/01/2022 - 13:38

          Yes but you said it 'if money isnt an issue,' which isnt having the money to buy it's if spending the money will not impact on your cashflow/lifestyle.

          and if it is an issue more reason not to share due to illiquid nature of joint ownership

          • Gordon61B on 04/01/2022 - 13:52

            @May4th: You're overegging it. In short if money is abundant, there's less likely to be conflict. That's all.

            • May4th on 04/01/2022 - 13:57

              @Gordon61B: yeah the point of it is, it boils down to - if you have the money, save yourself the trouble (and friends) and just buy/hire yourself. if you don't have the money it's a terrible financial decision so more reason not to

  • GrueHunter on 04/01/2022 - 11:49
    +2

    Every group of friends has these guys:

    • Yeah, so I have to live in the van for a while, just for a few weeks guys until I get back on my feet, I promise
    • Yeah, so I know I said these dates but I actually meant those dates, oh you have it those dates, well now my girlfriend is going to create drama
    • Yeah, so I might have had too much to drink and I crashed the van but here's how it's everybody else's fault except mine
    • Yeah, I guess I'll be the guy who just pays for everything but never actually gets to use the f'n van
  • nekro on 04/01/2022 - 12:49

    The tea leaves reveal pain and suffering and to avoid at all costs

  • Hangryuman on 04/01/2022 - 13:31
    +1

    'don't do business with friends - you tend to lose both'

  • newjerseydamo on 04/01/2022 - 13:44

    I say do it, then post a new thread in 6-12 months when it's all gone so horribly wrong, you're out thousands of dollars, and have lost friends.

    It might brighten someone's day who otherwise is having a bad time and will put things in a bit of perspective for them that things aren't all that bad and at least they didn't do something like this horrible idea.

  • Narull on 04/01/2022 - 13:45

    There is no possible way contract or not that this will end well, take the advise here and don't do it, guarantee you will end up regretting it, you don't do business with friends.

  • Hangryuman on 04/01/2022 - 13:48

    'buy a reasonably new van and renovate it nicely costs a lot these days'

    in 1982 I bought an old VW kombi van with a refurbished engine for $500 from a fellow traveller in Athens,

    and then used it to travel with my girlfriend around the Peloponnese, then ferry to Italy, then Calabria, Rome, Florence, Perugia, Venice (parked in mainland Mestre), up to Austria, Switzerland and Germany where we stayed in Munich, except for a drive to Berlin and back.

    crappy van no-one wants to steal, I added to furnishings by picking up household thrown out stuff on footpaths

    we arrived at night in Rome, then parked two weeks in a big park, while I refurbished the fitout/cupboards, etc.

    only the day we were leaving we went 'what's that big building up the hill ?' - walked up to find - the Villa Borghese, one of the most beautiful art gallery/mansions in Rome - we'd parked, slept and lived in its grounds for 2 weeks without realising

    ended up sleeping in the kombivan for free for maybe 6 months, before just leaving it parked beside the Englischer Garten as it was easier than all the paperwork to reregister and transfer title just so I could sell it for little.

    with the huge distances in Australia I'd be wary of putting much money into a fancy campervan.

    think - if we crashed it - what then?

    if it broke down needing expensive repairs in the outback - what then?

    if we want to go separate ways but can't agree on who should keep the van - what then?

    back in the day I hitchhiked for free - the only concern was dangerous drivers speeding - before Ivan Milat et al.

  • hasher22 on 04/01/2022 - 16:19

    If it were me that saw the contract, I'll be put off. Though, I understand OPs point of view to protect themselves.

    But if they're good friends and you know them well enough, you shouldn't need an agreement.

    You should be confident enough to say "hey mate, you break it, you buy it" or "fill up the tank when you're done".

    Though, these things should be common sense and you shouldn't need to say anything.

    But some friends do take advantage of some friends unintentionally.

    Personally, I wouldn't do it. It's gonna be way too much of a headache and burden.

    People can't even give 20 dollars to a mate without them paying it back without asking.

    • SkMed on 05/01/2022 - 10:32

      People can't even give 20 dollars to a mate without asking to pay it back??.. sounds like you need new friends :(

  • geosta on 04/01/2022 - 18:22

    This sounds horrendously complicated and absolutely guaranteed to end with broken friendships and unhappy people.

    If you don't want to pay for a van upfront, just do this: www.camplify.com

  • spacemannn on 04/01/2022 - 19:07

    what you're talking about is a what has long been known as a "Timeshare". In this case, it's for a Van. People do it with very nice boats all the time, that's an established process. This however sounds like a bad time waiting to happen…

    If you really want to go down this rabbit hole, just buy an already built RV and rent it out. Buying a Van and trying to fix it up doesn't make sense to me, unless you're on a very limited budget, as it will cost a fair bit trying to get everything to work flawlessly, not to mention your personal time spent on building it. Only other reason I can think that modifying a Van from scratch would be for your YouTube channel which you would presumably have many subscribers that will get your money back through viewing your content or buying your awesome unique merch with some sponsors on the side.

  • AustriaBargain on 04/01/2022 - 20:50

    This sounds like the least fun anyone has ever had buying a van for fun with friends.

  • tonyjzx on 04/01/2022 - 22:59

    i heard of friends buying a unit or a house together but this is a new one

    lets all live in a friggin van

    also: "Procedures for admitting new sharers"

    get in on the ground level! MLM ownership

  • Dr Techno on 05/01/2022 - 00:10

    sounds like a potential headache. I would go it alone with a good 2nd hand van to convert yourself. You will have it to yourself minus the arguments. On the other hand would it not make more sense to rent a camper van sharing the costs with said friends ? might be more enjoyable.

  • Mysterious on 05/01/2022 - 01:47

    5 way ownership of a van with a written contract?
    this really has disaster written all over it..
    i can't imagine this ending in any other way but being a costly lesson and also losing four friends
    also having a written contract with friends you're travelling with in a van is kinda awkward, no?

    just my opinion

  • nikey2k27 on 05/01/2022 - 21:20

    quick way to learn who firend who are not mate. personal share a van little on hard side

  • Manny Calavera on 06/01/2022 - 13:25

    Just buy yourself a Sandman and be done with it.

  • burningrage on 06/01/2022 - 21:41

    When life is getting me down, I read this forum to find entertaining post like this to make me laugh.

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