With the rampant inflation I haven't kept up, what is considered average and a good pay now? Assuming 1 person.
What is considered a good pay now?
NotAnAudiophile on 10/02/2022 - 21:39
Comments
@brendanm: so what you are saying is that there is bills, you just said there are no other bills at all ever
@brendanm: i have many houses, a car, and a kid, and i still don't pay 4k per month on top of my mortgage
@brendanm: i'm on about my first comment of spending 4k a month on bills must mean you send your kid to private school, try to keep up
@redfox1200: $300-400 food. $100 fuel (2 cars). $150 public transport.
$650 a week already without adding : car servicing/repairs, council rates, electricity, water, gas, house repairs, school fees, childcare fees, phone plans, internet, entertainment, etc etc. Not exactly wild to get to $932 a week.
@brendanm: why did you have to bring logic into this discussion? i should have just said you must have kids in childcare!
You are only about to have a mortgage,
if you had been able to save for a deposit.Right now, that "deposit" is about AU$ 250 - 300K
and that is a lot of money, just for a deposit
It's a little bit subjective depending on individuals expenses, spending habits, requirements etc.
Australia median income for all workers was $62,400.
Australia average salary is $67,304It also depends on your field. Engineering salaries are through the roof due to demand.
$130-150k I would class as a good salary for an average Engineer with few years experience, anything lower and you need to move
$200k with 10 years experience and chartered is good and obviously live very comfortably
Anything beyond that is a boon
Hi just wondering what your source is for that engineering salary?
I have 20yrs as an mech eng, current lead engineer at a contractor for defence and only make $107+super. Professionals Aus survey indicates I should perhaps be up near $140 (for regional NSW) but it's always hard to gauge.
Have a pay review this month so would appreciate any extra info pleaseI would strongly advise you to look at Engineering Consultancy companies rather than Contractors in that case. You should be on double what you're on now. Quality Mech Engineers are in very short supply in the current market.
Consider WSP, Mott MacDonald, ARUP, AECOM, Arcadis, Jacobs, GHD, Aurecon etc.
You can also try govt organisations like Sydney Metro, Sydney Trains, Transport for NSW, Sydney Light Rail etc.
A bit of a tangent from the original discussion but still somewhat relevant for engineering industry - I know there was a big vibe of 'make more stuff in Australia' (beyond just food products) during peak Covid times when the global supply chain disruption started. To make in Australia and therefore create a stronger economy and more jobs sounded like the only way to go in future. In fact, Australia at least started making emergency supplies at that time i.e. PPE kits, sanitizers, masks etc, which looked to be a great sign for our manufacturing sector. I would be keen to know if there has been any further progress on this ever since then?
It was sad to see that the government had to import all RAT test kits from abroad and it would be worth millions of dollars of import for NSW and VIC alone.
What's a bit surprising (from the above posts) is that there's a shortage of good engineers (mechanical, electrical) despite the manufacturing industry being almost non-existent here. How come!
@virhlpool: Ah, that'll be because we're refering to the infratructure construction sector rather than manufacturing. There's a huge boom in infrastructure spending and projects from railways to roads to bridges to buildings etc.
@Hybroid: I see.. A big money is being invested in infra and we still have clogged roads (and no parking spaces) all around Sydney and many parts of Melbourne. Hope it changes soon.
Hi, I'm still in uni working on my electrical engineering bachelors.
What skills would I need to work on to get into railway industries like the ones you listed? PLC? AutoCAD?@KiKH: Hello, AutoCAD isn't used in Railway industry. Either Bentley Rail Track or Revit is the go-to. Some Civils 3D or 12D in Australia specifically for legacy reasons.
In your case with Electrical Eng, you have 2 key specialisms:
1) Becoming a HV or LV engineer. HV focuses on traction power/electrification for train running while LV for buildings and other equipment. Standard Electrical Engineer jobs with similar demand to Mechanical.
2) Signalling. This would be my choice if I could do it over. A very niche specialty with very few specialists around. You'll need to do another 6-12 month IRSE course on the job for this but the salaries are insane and the work pretty enjoyable if you like being mixed office and on-site. It's seen as a dark art and not many people know about it or get introduced to it early on, hence most people don't target it for studies.
@Hybroid: Thank you, Hybroid.
I'm currently in a railway electronics manufacturing business for an internship, but they're mostly focused on surge protection. Your comment gave me a good sense of direction.
Not a Mech Engineer but you are on a very low salary. Good luck in your negotiations.
I am a SysEngineer/SysArchitect with 20+yrs and get $150k (super on top) but that is on the GC. Could make more if I wanted to do the daily grind to Brissie.Mate you are getting shafted. Get out of there!
You are getting reamed.
I was in a similar situation. 12years in the same company, got paid only 105 + super, at that time i got overall more than 15 years exp in IT. Applied for jobs, no interviews, moved to US briefly on E3 visa, came back to Aus and found a job, now contracting and pay is almost double. Move out of these companies ripping off employees.
Curious, how was your experience about moving to the US and why did you decide to come back considering that pays are higher there and cost of living is much cheaper?
The $130k-$150k range matches what I understand to be in the market at the moment, particularly for the built environment industry. Payscale is showing something similar: https://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Senior_Civil_Engine… | https://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Senior_Mechanical_E…
For context, the title Senior Civil Engineer is now typically used for someone in the 5-10 year experience range (depends on the company), and I presume that it's the same for a Senior Mechanical Engineer. There's so much work right now and the borders are (relatively) closed, so it's really a 'sellers' market at the moment.
That payscale is way out for my industry. 67k average. More like 100k now with a ceiling of about 120k.
Earning more than the highest reported range.
@Korban Dallas: That's a good point! I can really only vouch for the accuracy of what Payscale is showing for a Senior Civil Engineer because I have a few peers with this title and know roughly what they make and what's on offer in the market at the moment. Perhaps it's more accurate because it's in very high demand and there's a lot of movement in this role within the built environment industry at the moment?
wow man, you are literally half price to your employer. They really ozbargained you!
Having worked in the Defence industry for close to 20 years I can say that it's underpaid compared to other industries like Infrastructure/construction/transport. I made the jump and was much like yourself, but I was in an exec level role and then ended up almost doubling my pay when I jumped across. You'll find that skills across the two industries is transferable and there is actually greater demand in project builds, hence the inflated remuneration.
To be honest, if you wanted to get a substantial increase, it's easier to do so by changing companies/industries rather than renegotiating with your current employer.
I've found Defence pays on the lower end for engineers - when I was job hunting end of last year, my requested pay was 120k and I was told by everyone 'too high, that's for someone with 20 years experience' from the major companies. Considering my peers with similar experience (6-10 years) were on 120-150k I definitely wasn't asking too much. Was offered an above the line contractor position for 150k, but was only for 6 months with possible extension and I wanted something more stable.
I would use the survey figure as a basis to negotiate a higher salary. With 20 years experience in a lead role I'd expect at least 150k.
That sounds familiar, I have only been with this company 2yrs and when trying to negotiate it was $105k, take it or leave it.
I was on $125k working for a coal primary producer, which included a $20k/yr bonus for RPEQ. Company was good, got a high end laptop to use as my own, novated lease, annual bonus and only had to travel 10-12weeks a year (pretty good for mining)So I took the RPEQ off the table and signed, at the time China had stopped buying Aussie coal and the company I was at was in financial trouble.
I'll go back to mining if I have to but might have to look into building/construction?
As an electrical engineering student going into my final year of university does anyone have any recommendations of grad programs or places I should apply to? I've also been looking for part-time work as a student engineer for my final year and has been harder than I originally thought it would be.
Also a final year EE student here. I had more luck applying to small scale local engineering companies than big international ones.
I think it depends on your industry. I'm on 100k as an engineer right now with 4 years of experience.
I don't know about Mech Engineering, but I have a mate working as Electrical Engineer $110/hour and he is working 38hrs a week if he work in office, otherwise 70hours/week when he needs to go on site. I'm a fake "engineer" (software engineer) and i get way more than what you get.
Just curious as a EE student what does your mate do?
$130-150k I would class as a good salary for an average Engineer with few years experience, anything lower and you need to move
Wait what…I had no idea they had crept up to that high. Am I getting swindled on 90K?? Electrical Eng for 6 years.
If you're a grad up to +3 years then that's fine.
If you're qualified Engineer with 5 years+ experience then you need to start applying to competitors. Document Controllers make more than you.
Also: GET CHARTERED! It's piss easy in Aus (compared to UK) and makes HUGE difference to pay.
Structural Engineer with 6 years of experience, almost chartered (got the application in and paid for, but need to prepare some more docs). I'm getting majorly shafted aren't I - 75 a year.
Torn though as one of the directors hasn't got much longer to live and he's put in his will that I'll get a decent portion of his share in the company. Would you stay or leave?
Torn though as one of the directors hasn't got much longer to live and he's put in his will that I'll get a decent portion of his share in the company. Would you stay or leave?
This is some crazy shit I've never heard of before in a company. Why would he do that? Are you guys really that close?
@Smol Cat: Guy has no kids, no wife, no extended family. So there's no one else to really leave his assets to. The guy's been running the company his entire life and I've been here since even before graduating. We're reasonably close but nothing crazy, it caught me off guard too when he first told me but I didn't ever think to question it very much. He said at the time he just wanted to give us a head start in life and we've stayed loyal to the company all this time.
@Kikkoman56: I wonder if you could negotiate a significant raise (to market rate) but each year 80% of the raise is used to buy some of his equity.
75k current + 75k raise - 60k cash + 60k equity.
he gets 60k cash a year. to spend while he's alive.
company gets to keep you around.
you get 15k cash extra year.
you get equity without having to rely on vague promises.you pay income tax rather than inheritance tax. (not sure if a positive)
vaguefalse promises.FTFY.
Seriously though @Kikkoman, until you have it in your hand I wouldn’t count on it.
I wouldn’t trust it even after sighting the actual will document.
You’d be surprised at the amount of BS people will say to get (underpaid) employees stay with them.@Antikythera: Well that's the thing, the guy is planning on just gifting us the shares free. I've seen the will signed with the lawyer, so I think the likelihood of getting screwed over is a bit lower. Still pretty frustrating being that underpaid in the mean time, but is it greedy to ask for a pay rise when this is not far off? I've just been going the timid route not doing anything and waiting…
@Kikkoman56: @Kikkoman56: well, how much is the company worth? Probably is a multiple of earnings before tax (EBITDA) although I'm not super familiar with your industry. And how much roughly are the dividends per year?
And how well will the company run without him - does it generate revenue through his client relationships or will it not matter if he's gone?
Once you know those things, you can roughly figure out how much the value of the equity is and the dividend payments each year and then figure out if it compensates you for being underpaid.
Guy has no kids, no wife, no extended family. So there's no one else to really leave his assets to.
Never came across a situation where someone doesn't have extend families and friends.. Having no siblings or cousins and therefore none of their families is super rare. If someone hasn't been too social, they would still have relation with at least some of the family members on paternal or maternal side if not in the immediate relation.
@Kikkoman56: wtf, I'm still a student and the pay for our vacation work is 78k/year. Zero responsibility and all just learning. Grads are on 120.
Getting chartered can be good advice, but doesn't apply to all fields. In my field chartered isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Worth checking in with some colleagues, superiors or what not to determine its value.
@nigel deborah: Agreed, I'm an RPEQ due to the requirements of my previous job, but current employer in NSW doesn't value it at all.
I’m in WA and it’s boom time here, but designers with little experience are on that and they don’t even have a degree. We’re crying out for capable engineers in basically all disciplines and it’s name your price territory over here at the moment. At 90k you are being taken advantage of. You would be borderline senior on, at the very least, $120k here, if not more.
But WA
Offt this is a hard pill to swallow
I do find this strange. We've all been offered relocation packages including fully paid transfers and increased salaries but no one wants to go to WA. Not even on a 1 year contract then fully paid relocation back to Sydney afterwards.
I haven't been to WA yet, but I really don't know why. I get it for people with established and settled families but even singles and more flexible people still don't want to go…
I'm tempted.
@Hybroid: I find this strange, mostly for the single people that have fewer ties to a place. Moving around, having new experiences, meeting new people is one of the best things in life and to have that offered to you, paid for, and turn it down just sounds… boring? Everyone is different though.
In practical terms, living in Perth is great, easy lifestyle, good weather, best coffee culture in the country, not boring like it was. Housing prices aren’t mental compared to some other cities (but have gone up). Awesome opportunities for leisure time too. Just an interminable lockdown 😅 The industry is red hot atm and if you want to go down the process engineering path this is the biggest golden nugget you’ll stumble upon. Mining isn’t going away. Do a few years work direct for the big three or consulting to them and your CV looks pretty attractive. I got headhunted to a new spot with a pretty massive pay increase and a chance to step to the next level of my career path which I wasn’t getting at my last spot. Good drafters are easily on over $100,000 as contractors - and that’s sometimes not even a TAFE diploma!
Good luck man, happy give more info if keen.
@cadwalader: Literally the fact that no one else seems to want to go and that I haven't been there yet to gauge the city first.
Which industry are you referring to? What's the reason for such a high demand besides border closure (and hence lack of immigration for a year or two)?
@virhlpool: Mining.
The border closure is the issue, combined with unfettered demand for rocks out of the ground. The industry didn’t slow down much at due to COVID, it feels like it got stronger though I can’t be bothered looking at stats. On the ground we are hiring people interstate to work remotely because we just can’t get anyone here.
If we're talking full-time jobs then it's:
$77,948 median (2021)
$93,496 average (2020)
No point comparing your full-time salary to those only working part-time when you're trying to determine what a good full-time salary is.I bet you come with a coupon code - 50PERCENTOFF
About 50% more than what I get.
Remember commenters could be from anywhere. There is a massive difference in pay and living cost between Adelaide and Sydney.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/earnings-and-work-h…
Don't use the word "average".
The median WAS only $51k, at the same time the mean WAS at $87k. That's for all full-time workers.
If you split it into Men / Women, or different Area Codes, the figures changes. And this was just before the pandemic.I know the rich has gotten richer (and smarter about hiding it), while the poor has gotten poorer (and possibly dumber). That's just the nature of the world. The pandemic hasn't helped. Nor is the inflation, which has happened but is yet to hit us, will have an effect. So it's difficult to say the correct figure.
I think what is a "good" pay now in 2022 is $50k, and it will keep you in the median, FOR NOW. But you should strive moreso for $62k I believe. Regardless of which one, it will have to increase in the next year or two. By how much is difficult to say. The range is anywhere between a lowly $53k to a huge $85k, just to keep up, and stay in the median. I think it is actually closer to $65k (and above).
No-one says the inflation from end of 2019 to 2022 start was 0%, very few people say it hasn't changed from the standard 3%, some say its as low as 5%, others say its a solid 11%, some say it is as high as 23%, and some point out that Federal Gov has been printed an extra +60% AUD currency out of thin air. It's upto you to figure out which one of these figures applies to you.
I think if you focus less on your expenses, and focus more on your income, you will have a better time. It's only once you hit the top 20% or higher echelon of earners, when that focus needs to shift to losing less.
PS: don't live in Cottesloe WA 6011 where the median scrapes by on $78k, while the mean is on $283k.
while the poor has gotten poorer (and possibly dumber)
I don't think the poor a getting dumber… I think a lot of people are unhappy because they are more aware than ever of the differential between the wealthy and the rest.
They still haven't wised up to being thrown pennies in tax cuts while the rich incumbents chuck all the tax revenue into private contracting companies their own voters wouldn't be allowed in the front door of….but baby steps.
There are actually studies which show that if you put anyone under financial stress they lose points of IQ. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-poverty-brain-idUSBRE97S1…
@Kangal "The median WAS only $51k, at the same time the mean WAS at $87k. That's for all full-time workers."
No it isn't - the link you provided is for all employees, which includes people employed part time.
The median for full time employees was $1592 per week ($82,784 annually) in 2021. The median for all employees was $1209 per week (62,868 annually). The average for full time employees was $1835 per week ($95,440 annually).
$113,984 per year puts you in the top 25% of full time employees, which I would say is pretty well off.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/earnings-and-work-h…
The median being 1.5k a week is actually insane
As in low or high?
I have been always confused.. Does the ABS quote Net or Gross?
Gross.
Gross inc super, overtime, etc.
^
I Disregard my first comment@arescarti42
EDIT: scratch that, you are right. The graph has the figure, and it's confused me.
Thoughts:
Although, I don't quiet trust these figures entirely. The figures do seem to change with time as they better estimate things after-the-fact. I feel like the Average should be higher and the Median should be lower, but we will have to see. I know we got a decent bump-up but that was mostly Job Seeker, and that money came from mostly from printing more currency and having the Chinese economy pay for it. It will come around to bite us in the next year or two.Update:
I think what is a "decent" pay in 2022 is now $65k, and it will keep you in the median, FOR NOW. But you should strive moreso for $75k I believe. Regardless of which one, it will have to increase in the next year or two. By how much is difficult to say. The "range" is anywhere between a lowly $65k to a huge $104k, just to keep up, and stay in the median. I think what will be required is actually closer to $88k (and above).I hope this is more accurate now. Suddenly everyone here sweats profusely.
Don't include part-time and casual data in your median figures.
$77,948 median (2021)
$93,496 average (2020)
No point comparing your full-time salary to those only working part-time when you're trying to determine what a good full-time salary is.
What inflation?
the fake inflation we are getting rammed down our throats due to obvious corporate greed
meanwhile businesses are reporting RECORD profits………wages are stagnant……. go figure
Stagflation.
caused by greedy companies…… heaven forbid they have to take a profit hit during a recession
please think of the poor CEOs but, might only be able to buy a porsche 911 this year instead of a 911 turbo
@EightImmortals: I do have sympathy for old bezos, I mean he spent shit tonnes of money to fly to space in a penis shaped rocket and NASA still refused to call him an astronaut like he wished he would be called all his childhood.
also his wife bailed on him took half his money and now is spending it helping people the direct opposite of what bezos does, and everyone is swooning over her
what a loser,
@MrThing: If you are a huge fan of communism, you can move to Cuba or north Korea. I'm sure in those countries everyone has a more equal chance to buy a porsche. Lolololololol.
@baldur: sure call it communist w.e
im sure you're happy in your 4ft by 4ft box living week to week, whilst billionaires are flying to space or having bridges dismantled to get their super mega yachts out into the ocean.
I mean, if we keep saying ye you know what, that behaviour is ok by me, then cool, enjoy. But that aint me, I havent drunk the kool-aid, these ultra wealthy should be giving more back to the world they are sucking dry.
People who defend billionaires as "job creators" are deluded
@MrThing: In hindsight, if we are all slaves in this system according to your claim, you are in a waaaaaaay too much better position as a slave than those ones are in Cuba or North Korea and on top of that there is still little chance that you can be a millionaire or billionaire.
@MrThing - you think the current inflation is fake? Have you looked around at Woollies and Coles and seen all the price rises? Car price rises across the board? Building costs? Where are you based that you're not seeing prices go up everywhere?
And stagnant wages? I don't know what industry you're in but in mine they're going up left, right and centre.
Sure, business profits are strong. The economy is strong, unemployment rate looks like it'll have a 3 in front of it soon. Why would you expect business profits to be low in an inflationary environment with low unemployment?
I'd love to live in this parallel universe you find yourself in.
I don't know what universe you're in but the economy is far from "strong" anywhere in the world - or maybe in your parallel universe covid doesn't exist? High stock market <> Strong Economy.
Current inflation IS fake…..prices are high because companies can get away with charging more… not because their cost base has suddenly increased by 20%. Supply chain has been cut and disrupted due to covid so products are going to the highest bidders.
Don't you find it strange in the worst global recession in a long time, that companies are still recording record profits?
Dont even get started on fuel price and inflation……..the oil price is controlled by a cartel who raise and lower production to control supply and in turn the price….just like diamonds.. its not real.. its manufactured inflation fueled by greed
@MrThing: In my opinion, prices are high for three main reasons: 1) Increased demand of some goods across globe, 2) Overburdened global supply chain (particularly shipping), 3) Lack of mobility/ employees in some sectors.
One way to deal with these for the companies is to take a hit in their profit projections for a couple of years but many companies aren't willing to do that; they prefer to increase prices instead which is an easier solution.
@virhlpool: I agree with all of that.
But it essentially confirms what I am saying, their costs such as labor and materials are not increasing as they might make you think. But they are increasing prices at a time when everyone is hurting because they can get away with it (greed) - more worried about shareholders than the community.
whatever happened with we are in it together, everyone hurts - including business profits - not just the bottom of the tree - the consumer.
That depends entirely on the job. I am paid quite low compared to an airline pilot, but quite high compared to a regular commercial pilot. (For those confused - airline pilot - ATPL, commercial pilot CPL, big difference)
Wow. 200k now? I definitely don't make that.
When Ozb / reddit ausfinance talk about 200k income they are generally referring to combined income so 2 partners making 100k+ each
Thanks. Tbh I'm on north of 150k snd trying to get more..
What do you do for a living?
After $180K, for every dollar that goes into your account, one also goes to the ATO. So the net difference in $10K and $20 increases isn't very much.
@redfox1200: Are you serious? Old mate has likely averaged all his bills and things up over the year, and averages it out per month. Last month I think I paid about $8k in bills actually. Doesn't mean I will this month though.