Caught Driving Unregistered + Uninsured Vehicle

Yes, I know it shouldn't be done (so please refrain from advising me that). I was driving my wife's vehicle and being her first vehicle she wasn't really on top of things with respect to rego renewal dates amidst her health issues and she was in a major trauma for a significant time of 3-4 months.

What I don't understand is, why there were no reminder notices sent by the RMS and also by the CTP insurance provider? Had there been any of such letters we would have been reminded and paid the renewal fees immediately. Now we are sitting with a massive fine of $707 + $707 = $1414.

She tried applying for leniency, but that too has been declined. Is there a point in taking the matter to the court and asking for leniency once again because of health condition and also highlighting that there were no reminder notices?

Comments

  • +33

    Wife to divorce you. Jesus. What on earth. Imagine you hit someone.

    • Meh, ctp still pays for it. Even if he hits a tourist with no reciprocal health care agreement the poor fella won't be left out of pocket. Motor injury insurance cover is universal so the government can force providers to cover such scenarios and they don't lose sweat over it. That's why the penalty is so high so you won't forget.

      • +1

        CTP doesn't pay for it if you aren't insured though, hence the 'imagine if you hit someone'.

        • Yes they do, they just don't want everyone to abuse the system by publishing it. If you go check for conditions to claim, it doesn't even mention if you have to be insured or not.

  • +37

    Did the reminder notice go into her junk mail? Can't expect the RMS to door knock everybody who doesn't pay their rego, to check if they have received the notice.

  • +29

    In the first sentence the OP seems to take ownership.

    Then straight after blames others.

    Your wife should (mod: edited) and thank the officer who gave her the ticket.

    Imagine if you had an accident, even if you had comprehensive insurance it would be void.

    • +41

      I don't think she needs to be THAT grateful.

    • +4

      My God some people, relax champ.

      • -1

        The do-gooders on this site would probably dig their own grave and spread the soil over themselves if China came to invade.

        Not a single ounce of gall to stand up for themselves. Not only should you cop the fine, you must do it with a smile!

  • +18

    Usually registration and insurance come from two separate sources. Have you changed addresses email and home since purchasing. I assume you completed rego transfer at the time?

  • +5

    there were no reminder notices sent by the RMS and also by the CTP insurance provider.

    Did you not get letters in the post?

    • +2

      I had a wife that would 'accidentally' forget to give me letters like Electricity bills, and a speeding fine reminder. Maybe theyr'e related?

    • This happened to me in SA when leasing a vehicle through a novated lease for the first time. At the end of the year, no reminder letter for the registration ever came through, and it was just lucky I'd kept track of the date.

      I paid it through the EZYReg app, and you can set a reminder in that.

  • +1

    What state are you in?

    If you are Queensland you might be able to argue that you should've received a notice, like they say?

    https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/registration/register/renew

    However, it will, probably, be a long bow.

    You are, probably, stuck with having to pay the fine.

    • +1

      I'm gonna guess NSW since OP mentions RMS

      • https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/news/rego-reminders-are-here-…

        In that case then this article might help. It is for 2019 but it does say that a paper renewal notice should be send 6 weeks before renewal is required. Not sure it will get the OP anywhere but worth investigation if things are the same as 2019.

        • +4

          Yep, you still get paper notices for rego and insurers send CTP renewals as well. On top of that you'll get a reminder via the NSW service app which pretty much everyone has since they needed it for covid checkins so no excuses really as I doubt several notices via different methods all weren't received.

          • +1

            @apsilon: The only thing might be if the contact details are wrong.

            • @try2bhelpful: Possibly though I don't see how it could be for the app.

            • +6

              @try2bhelpful: If the contact details are wrong that is still your responsibility, you are required to notify them of any changes.,

    • They will have next to no chance of getting off this in QLD(sounds like NSW anyway). The only time I have see it is if it’s only a couple of days over due and they contact TMR after getting the ticket and make up some sob story about always paying their rego on time and for whatever reason forgot to this time. If it’s over 30 days in QLD it counts as insinuated as well and I’ve never seen someone get out of that one.

      TMR keeps a records of all the notices they send out. It is the drivers responsibility to update their address/contact details. Saying you moved addresses but failed to update your address ( if you get renewals posted) will not save you. In fact if the copper is annoyed you might even get a ticket for that as well.

  • +15

    Service NSW says https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/news/rego-reminders-are-here-…

    Which even has a convenient TLDR recap: (copied below)

    Roads and Maritime sends paper renewal notices six weeks before the rego is due so make sure your address is up to date. If you’re not sure, call 13 77 88.
    Look out for your registration renewal in the mail about six weeks before the due date.
    Get a MyServiceNSW account and follow the steps to link it to Roads and Maritime.
    Opt in to get a two week reminder in the MyServiceNSW account settings
    You can check the status of a registration any time for free right here:
    https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/check-vehicle-reg…

  • +91

    Are you an adult or a child?

    You receive the renewal notice, either in the post, or in the 21st century via email.
    As far as I'm aware, each state has online facilities where you can sign up to an account to manage your vehicles through the relative department.

    In Victoria for example, you get multiple emails advising of the upcoming renewal.
    Also, as an adult, something as serious as registration and insurance (CTP or comprehensive/other) is a major item due to serious repercussions.

    Sure, your wife had trauma etc., and that is valid if she was single and dealing with it all by herself; but as her husband, it's your responsibility to pick up the slack and shoulder more responsibility in those times. Where was your responsibility for doing that and managing the household on behalf of your wife?

    Honestly, there's no excuse, and unfortunately, you're getting the truth, even though you specifically didn't want to hear it.
    Pay the fines, pay the registration, CTP and insurance, and move on in life.

    Edit: If you're going to downvote, at least have the courage to reply with a reason you're downvoting. Nothing said above is unreasonable. Do you really want to coddle someone who wants to take no responsibility for their actions and be uninsured driving on the road? What's the matter? Did I hurt your feelings? Grow up.

    • In Victoria for example, you get multiple emails advising of the upcoming renewal.

      I'm in Victoria, and I get just one email about six weeks before the car registration is due. What are these "multiple emails" of which you speak?

      • +2

        You probably get another reminder email if you forget to pay it on time?

        • I'm in VIC and I do get multiple emails.

      • +1

        you get multiple emails

        Agree with you there, @pjetson.

        You only get one email reminder. If your rego remains overdue by 2 weeks, you will get a physical letter mailed out (even if you have opted for email notices).

      • +3

        I got one 6 Weeks in advance, then another 2 weeks in advance. I also got a a letter in the post about 6 Weeks in advance. This was in February.

      • I get multiple email reminders

      • +2

        VIC, I received a reminder, I pay by auto direct debit. Noted the payment in online banking, then received an ‘unpaid’ notice. checked online - listed as unregistered. You have to stay across this stuff and follow up, which of course I did. VicRoads agreed I had paid, but they had misdirected the payment to a suspense account. I requested - and received - written advice that they had received my payment and were in the process of correcting their records which I printed out and carried with me until they sorted it out - took over a week. Technically could still have got a ticket.

      • Same here one email.

      • I got 2 email reminders.

        • In VIC here, get one letter through Post, and one SMS

    • +4

      This used to be the defacto position - where adults took responsibility for their actions, or in this case, inactions. Unfortunately we now live in a world where most people act as useless children and blame anyone or anything else for the issues they've created and run to the government and/or the sympathetic, but naive masses for support. Well done for unveiling the truth despite how many downvotes you get.

      • +1

        People forget things all the time. Before online services, you had to manage it on a level playing field with everyone else, and we had things like stickers (as well as notices in the mail) to help those that couldn't.

        But in the digital age, we can't assume everyone will set a reminder for everything, will not miss their physical or digital mail / app message for whatever reason. Dog ate the phone, Cat got the mail, Moved, Divorced, Stuck in rehab with PTSD after fighting one's own integrity in a war that had no purpose… we sure cannot hope everyone will be perfect. But this is what the gov has done when they decided to remove rego stickers, and allow world+dog to look your car up online and see if your car is regoed, and keep all your PII in juicy honeypots on the Internet allowing others to buy things in other jurisdictions, commit fraud, etc. and have others send the bills back to you.

        Rego (in NSW at least) is a dog's breakfast- at least for anyone who messes up. And no coincidence that the gov pumped the fines to >$1200 before implementing ANPR to record when and where we all go in our vehicles, the cost of which is borne from hereon in by the Supreme State, under which our offspring shall continue to obey.

        Meanwhile, when someone has an incident because they forgot to renew, when they didn't have a chance to notice the sticker was OOD… the victims get told they cannot have compensation for anything let alone medical costs and destroyed property. It's clearly beyond a good government, not to break basic administrative process. Can only hope that it won't be too long before a the pollies' themselves are impacted badly enough by some low income person who had overlooked the one notice sent to their old address, and failed to renew in the middle of some common personal crisis. Maybe then they will realise then that there needs to be better processes in place to prevent drivers being unreg+uninsured, not worse ones. IMHO it is bad enough that insurers are allowed to exempt themselves from obligation when drunk drivers and stolen cars hit people.

        • Would be interesting to know if the number of unreg vehicle fines have increased, and if so (Im sure they have) by how much since no rego stickers?

          • @mauricem: Revenue from unregistered vehicles went thought the roof when the states stopped rego stickers.

    • +2

      I’ve never understood people complaining about being downvoted, like they are somehow owed an explanation. People are allowed to disagree without having to explain themselves, that’s why the voting system exists.

      Edit: I upvoted the post FYI, although hesitantly based on the last paragraph.

    • Bang on… Thanks for saving me a post. I'm sick of this kind of behaviour

  • +23

    $1,414 doesn't seem that big of a fine. It's definitely an ouch amount of money to pull out of nowhere, but considering the cost of a crash without insurance you got off a bit lucky.

    I wouldn't take it to court. IANAL but it seems unlikely that someone else not reminding you to look after your own responsibility isn't going to get you very far. If you're asking for leniency don't try blame anyone else, it's not the way to go.

    It's also the responsibility of the driver to know the status of the car they are driving. If it's not insured/registered and you were driving it, that's on you, blaming it on your wife isn't going to win big on the compassionate front either.

    If you have financial difficulties, contact them on how to move onto a payment plan or something like that.

    • +10

      or call peter dutton, maybe he can set up a go fund page for ya

      • Donate $1414, and get the current 10 for 1, every donor deserves at least 9 more lives

    • Depends on your circumstances. For me that fine would represent 3 weeks pre tax income. Likely to result in me giving up and bludging on dole. Fines should be relative to income and wealth. Sick of rich BMW drivers speeding with impunity because, as you say, the fines aren't that much. Not to a BMW driver. Insert other brand, it's just an example.

      • +5

        That's what the points are for, BMW driver loses his license and continues drives he can go to jail.

        You can lose your license for any serious speeding.

        • +2

          This is where the second part of the plan comes in.
          The car is registered to the business, when a fine comes in "We can't ascertain who was driving" and the fine is paid, license points are avoided.

          Used to work for a place there the boss would routinely rack up fines in his 100% personal use but 'company owned' car.

          • +1

            @Sleeqb7: Failing to nominate a driver in Victoria for three or more traffic offences (which carry demerit point penalties) in a 12 month period is an offence for which companies can be fined more than $17,000. This applies whether the fine is paid or not.
            In NSW the penalty has been doubled from $11000 to $22000.
            For certain traffic offences registration is canceled on any company vehicles.

            • @deepblonde: These seem like reasonable measures. This is in QLD, and I last heard about these antics a few years ago, so it's possible legal reform has corrected his ways.

      • -1

        For me that fine would represent 3 weeks pre tax income.

        Sounds like driving a car is too expensive for your income. Consider public transport or alternative?

  • +3

    Pay the fine, spare your wife any extra trauma about the thought of having to face court.

    There no certainty in the outcome and the cost can also be high financially and emotionally.

  • +8

    I was driving my wife's vehicle

    It's also your responsibility to ensure that any vehicle you drive, that is not your own, is registered. Takes like 10 second

    It's not a massive fine. Just ask for a repayment plan and they'll give you all the time in the world to pay it off so it doesn't stuff up your weekly budgeting.

    • +3

      People don’t realise this part. I remember being roasted a while back because someone made a post about driving a test vehicle from a dealership that wasn’t registered and claiming that the dealer was at fault and should pay.

      Problem is, the legislation says the driver is responsible for making sure the car they are about to drive is registered and if it isn’t, don’t drive it.

      There is even a function on the Service NSW app where all you have to do is open the app, and use the camera to scan the number plate. So easy to check a car’s rego status in NSW.

      • +5

        I think the driver checking if the car has rego is a bit of a stretch. What about if you drive a different work car or a rental on a regular basis. Are you meant to check every time?

        • +1

          Apparently yes. I've been done for the same trick. Mate got pissed (he did ask me before), asked me to drive him and his car home. Got a ticket because he'd forgetten to pay rego.

        • +6

          You may think it's a bit of a stretch - the legislation states it is a responsibility, as is ensuring the vehicle is roadworthy, with working lights, indicators, tyre tread ect.

          Moving 1-2 tonnes of metal at speed along a carriageway is a privilege, not a right, and comes with obligations.

        • +1

          yes you are meant to check EVERY one. it takes all of a couple of seconds.

          • +1

            @gromit: Do you check EVERYTIME you get into your car?

            • +4

              @TheOtherLeft: I check everytime I get into a car I may not be aware of the status of. Why would I check my car, I know my car is registered. To put into context most other cars I drive would belong to my mother, brothers or from a work location. None of which I trust to reliably keep paperwork and rego upto date. I got lucky once where the cops gave me a warning when driving my brothers vehicle which was 2 weeks out of rego, ever since I am extra careful as the fines are huge and the insurance risk makes the fines look small.

            • @TheOtherLeft: Love how people get all high and mighty on this, never in my life have I gone online to check the status of the rego of a car I was about to drive, have driven plenty of work vehicles, plenty of hire cars, friends car, wifes car etc. Never, never heard of anyone doing it except on Ozbargain when all the rego checkers come out of the woodwork and claim it is irresponsible not to do it.

        • Yes

      • +6

        [Re: unregistered car from a dealer]

        In S.A. at least, dealers have access to "trade plates", which they can temporarily affix to a vehicle for a test drive, so if that happened here the poster would have been dealing with a cowboy or an imbicile.

      • +1

        Whilst I agree with what you say in principle, in practice it's not unreasonable to assume that a car dealership would be providing registered and insured vehicles for test drives. I took a Tesla Model 3 for a test drive last weekend and didn't check the rego because again, one would assume that Tesla would be upholding their legislative responsibilities.

        • +1

          In Victoria at least, general no cars on a dealership lot will have rego. They only rego them when sold. They have special rules for them - thus dealer plates.

    • +3

      I think if you did a poll most people would not be checking the rego of a loved one or friend unless that person had a history of unregistered vehicles.

      • +3

        Many people don't check until it happens to them, just like they don't follow the speed limits until they get a fine.

    • +1

      It's also your responsibility to ensure that any vehicle you drive, that is not your own, is registered.

      This is not realistic though and is pretty unfair in a lot of situations. The law in this case is crap.

      The owner should be fined for allowing his unregistered car to be driven. If vehicle was used without permission then things are different.

      • The law is the law, and until it is changed, you have to abide by what it is… And it is pretty realistic when all you have to do in NSW at least, is to open the same app we used for Covid check ins and scan the plate. Literally takes less than 10 seconds and can save you thousands of dollars worth of fines.

        And for the record, the registered owner can also be fined for allowing the unregistered vehicle to be used, so that part of the law is already in place in most states.

  • Do yourself a favour and set up automatic billing - in VIC you can renew your rego quarterly automatically, and insurance you can do monthly. Then it is less chance of missing a renewal letter that comes once a year.

    I feel for you OP as I was dinged with driving unregistered a few years back. In my case the renewal letter was sitting under a pile of junk - wife had taken it by mistake. Had to pay the fine, no recourse.

    Also if paying as a lump sum is too much, apply for a payment plan and you can pay it off in regular intervals.

    • As I noted above, even direct billing can go wrong even after they take the money. Check everything.

      • +2

        No doubt but at least if it was their stuff up you could have a case to get the fines waived.

        If you forget completely then it’s totally on you.

    • I don't trust automatic billing on 2 separate occasions it's been stuffed up on me by the bank once each for power and water. How is beyond me with no good reason from the bank I now pay directly myself.

      • That sucks!

  • +2

    I challenged it once and won because I was taking it for repair, but I dont like your chances They have cameras that look for these unreg plates. Work out a payment plan and take this seriously
    f you do take it to court you need to plead guilty and ask for a dismissal giving your reasons

    • +12

      Can you please make this a new thread and expand on the details.

      Thanks Pam

      • the only expansion is dismissal under section 10,
        https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/criminal/penalties/…

        • +3

          someone has been using google to research their next forum topic

          So.. which one was it.. plead guilty and section 10'd or

          I challenged it once and won

          • @randomusername2017: both, thats how I won. I was getting it ready for the pink slip, which I had heard you were able to do, so I looked up and printed out the specific regulation and took it to court. The police didnt even know the regulations The prosecutor congratulated me on my win. This was years ago.

            • +2

              @screensaver: No you didn’t. To “win” means that you pleaded not guilty and went to trial. I am 100% sure this is not what happened.

              What most likely happened is, you pleaded guilty and were given a chance to explain it to the magistrate. The magistrate would then have looked at the legislation and found that you had committed no unlawful act and went on to dismiss the case against you. It wasn’t a s10, as there would have been no case if you had have adhered to the law.

              A dismissal of a case because the defendant is in the right is not the same as an s10.

              Don’t give up your day job to become a lawyer, Pam.

              • -4

                @pegaxs: must be why the prosecutor came up to me and congratulated me on a job well done.

                • @screensaver: Oh, I’m not saying it wasn’t a job well done. I think you did the right thing. You admitted to doing the act for what you were in court for (driving unregistered) and you pleaded your case and cited the legislation which covered you for what you were doing. Magistrate saw you were correct in presenting the evidence that supported what you were doing and dismissed the case based on you had no case to answer for based on current legislation.

                  The prosecution probably congratulated you for at least doing some homework and coming to court armed with the knowledge you required to have your case thrown out (most people don’t).

                  I am actually surprised that it even got to court. A letter explaining yourself and how it fits into the legislation should have been enough. Your meeting with the prosecutor prior to your court attendance to hammer out a deal should have been thrown out at that point once you showed him your evidence. How it even got to the point of being in front of a magistrate is beyond me.

            • @screensaver: Sounds about right…

              will leave that rabbit hole to the mad hatter…

      • +1

        Legislation in the NT allows unregistered vehicles to be driven to a repair shop to repair and inspect the vehicle for passing registration or to drive the vehicle to the registry office to register the vehicle.
        I've done it once, I just made sure I had a booked appointment at the service centre in case I was pulled up on the way.

        • +1

          In VIC you can purchase short term registration for about $20 a day (don't quote me) to attend RWC appointments etc.

          • @Muzeeb: We also have that. You pay the day charge. Put on the application the exact pathway you wamt to take. And say that the car is roadworthy enough for the trip.
            But this is for moving a vehicle between any 2 locations over a simgle day.

  • +2

    Is there a Doctor's report that can back up the illness/trauma?

    Generally, most magistrates spend the day listening to all sorts of stories etc, unless you catch them on a good day, could end up worse off, for wasting the court systems time.

    • -2

      A whole bunch of medical reports over a period of 3 months.

      • +1

        Ok. Its up to you whether you fight it in court. A solicitor will cost money, and Legal Aid wont do it unless you are a low income earner etc. Generally, there are some good Legal Aid Solicitors, and some can be 'below Par'. Generally they have to learn everything on the spot, and try and present your case. If its adjourned, chances are that next time will be a different solicitor, and the process is repeated. Just remember too, that one if not both of you will need to take the day off work.
        Best of luck with your decision

  • +3

    How long was it out of rego for?

    • I'd like to know too. I reckon weeks or months, not days.

  • -3

    Op, if your income is under the threshold, you may qualify for free legal aid. Google your local community legal centre or call Legal Aid and ask. In certain circumstances you can get your fine changed into a WDO - work and development order, and do some community services etc.

    • -1

      Legal aid should not be for these type of cases imo

  • +1

    It might be worthwhile taking to court if there is a legit disaster or major event that hindered you from paying the rego. Like a proper disaster like being incapacitated in hospital, or overseas, or house burnt down. But if its just an excuse and nothing was physically stopping you then I dont see why you would get leniency.

  • +3

    You cooked it sorry.

    Pay the fine
    Move on.

  • +2

    I'm using the cheapest damn ctp provider and they always send paperwork… so does the rta

    for most people I know my wallet is going to be missing the good part of $1,000 a year per car on a regular basis so if you pass 15/16 months and you're still have that money in your bank account then thats on you

    its like people not paying their electricity bill because it didnt come and it doesnt pass their mind that something has gone wrong and they just enjoy that extra money on something else…

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