Lowballed Salary Question

jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 13:16
Last edited 16/03/2022 - 14:21

Hey all,

I returned a call yesterday for a government position and during the call the lady asked what I'd be looking for, initially from my research I couldn't find any information on the salary for the particular role however looking further, I see the pay is higher than what I gave. My mistake was she kept asking what I was making with my time atm to which I gave her a range.

Details on the pay is I gave a range from $45-$50 and of course she chose the lower end of the scale,however the role usually pays $58 which I know I'm worth due to my experience and what the role is looking for.

I had a follow up call during the process which the account manager said "so you'll be looking for $45 per hour" and I responded with "that's a starting point"

Can this be renegotiated upon successful interviews?

Any advice is appreciated.

Update:
I've sent through the email, hopefully all goes well

Education & Work

Comments

  • skid on 16/03/2022 - 13:25
    +6

    I would renegotiate, for sure. The account manager wants you more than you them, remember

    • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 13:28

      Thanks for the response. She said to let her know if there's anything I need, could I just send an email being direct about the pay?

      • dust on 16/03/2022 - 13:29

        Yes.

  • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 13:32

    Any idea how I can phrase the email?

    Thanks everyone

    • Hybroid on 16/03/2022 - 13:39
      +5

      Everything can be renegotiated before you sign a contract.

      "Dear X, upon reflection of the role and current market, I believe that $50 is more reasonable remuneration rate that I would consider acceptable"

    • Yorkshire-Man on 16/03/2022 - 13:48
      +12

      This is where you implement the 'fear of loss' tactic. Something like "I'm looking at a number of roles and what you have on offer is my favorite however other roles are offering more. If you were able to offer me $XX then I would be happy to accept"

      Be clear you want the job, also be clear they aren't offering as much as others.

  • Drakesy on 16/03/2022 - 13:47
    +1

    i was in a similar position for my salary and truthfully indicated that i had another department after me.

    They quickly went to the top of their pay range.

    Government roles generally have clearance for the highest pay grade.

    • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 13:50

      Thanks Drakesey,

      The below is the email I'm about to send off, if you could let me know whether this is good enough or anything I should add, and whether I should also include the fact that "I know I gave a figure range of x the other day but"

      Dear xx,
      I hope you're having a good week so far.

      I spoke to Jamie from account management yesterday and I just wanted to touch base on the pay for the above mentioned role.

      Upon reflection of the role and current market, I believe that $55 is more reasonable remuneration rate that I would consider acceptable based on my skills and experience as well as my experience within complaints, dispute resolution.

      • Drakesy on 16/03/2022 - 13:53
        +3

        I'd add that it aligns more closely with rates that i'm currently considering in this space, and to remain competitive would be the recommended range.

        Don't worry, i've done it all before. With the currently labour market people are literally jumping over each other to employ decent people. My government department is shedding people left right and centre due to private head-hunters, the last thing they want to do is go back out to market.

        • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 13:54

          You're amazing.
          This is what I have so far.

          I hope you're having a good week so far.

          I spoke with Jamie from account management yesterday and I just wanted to touch base on the pay for the above mentioned role.

          Upon reflection of the role and current market, I believe that $55 is more reasonable remuneration rate that I would consider acceptable based on my skills and experience as well as my experience within complaints, dispute resolution and I believe that this aligns more closely with rates that i'm currently considering in this space, and to remain competitive would be the recommended range.

          • Drakesy on 16/03/2022 - 13:56

            @jnathanc: Looks the goods

            • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 13:57

              @Drakesy: Thank you. Since you're in the industry, how do government contracts work, is there possibility for more permanent opportunities or once it ends it ends?

              • Drakesy on 16/03/2022 - 13:59

                @jnathanc: That's how i got in.

                Was brought in via Hays as a temp for 6 months post covid, this was renewed once more before i applied for an internal position (3 year contract).

                Most of the people i work around went through the same process, unfortunately the days of cushy permanent roles are gone as the government tries to get rid of the dead wood (of which there is a lot).

              • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:00

                @jnathanc: Also to mention, when I mentioned the range, she said, "we'll pay you $45 as we'd be looking to fill in positions for people who be left, so that's about how much we can pay" thoughts? I feel like that' was just her way to say "that's pretty much all we can pay"

                The reason I have seen the higher end of the pay is because there's advertisements online with the same title and job description and the pay rate in the mid to late 50s

                • Drakesy on 16/03/2022 - 14:02

                  @jnathanc: It all depends on who's employing you.
                  If its the government department directly they can afford to pay those rates

                  if it's a recruiter such as Hays, they effectively take out their cut (up to 15% of your salary) and thus reduce your leverage as your pay will be bundled in with it when they charge the department.

                  • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:04

                    @Drakesy: It's a recruitment consultancy agency but it's direct with the federal government.

                    • bobbified on 16/03/2022 - 15:30

                      @jnathanc: Are you going to be paid through the recruitment agency? Or will you be paid by the government agency?

                      A lot of these recruiters/agencies - they'll charge the employing company a certain rate, pay you a certain rate and they keep the rest as their fee.

                      So often, if your rate is low, the recruiter/agency still charges the rate to the company and they just get a bigger cut of the rate. If you ask for more, they don't necessarily get to charge company more so it just means that they will just get a smaller cut.

                      • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 15:40

                        @bobbified: It may by through the recruitment consultant I'm in the process with now? I'm only guessing since on their website I see now that they do have a candidate and timesheet section. Not sure though.

                        Yeah I'm well aware that they charge to find candidates, as I've sent off the email earlier, let's see how it goes.

                  • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:05

                    @Drakesy: Thoughts on leaving this until successful interviews or just send off the email?

                    • Drakesy on 16/03/2022 - 14:06
                      +1

                      @jnathanc: I left it until after the interviews as that's when you have most leverage. And unfortunately yeah because it's a recruitment agency they won't be able to offer as much as the market is worth.

                      • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:07

                        @Drakesy: Do you think it's worth a shot though? Thanks for your help btw. Really appreciate it

                        • Drakesy on 16/03/2022 - 14:15

                          @jnathanc: Could always try
                          But just chuck on another 15% on top of your wage and that's what they'll be charged. Although given you're a contractor you should be paid 15% more than a no contractor

                          So I guess it would work out.
                          Honestly I just accepted a mid range offer and took a higher offer later on when I when sem permanent

                          • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:22

                            @Drakesy: I sent through the email, let's see what happens. Thank you!

  • tsunamisurfer on 16/03/2022 - 13:49
    +1

    In future , if someone asks for your salary expectations and you don't know the answer, tell them that you will get back to them (say by COB) once you have investigated the market rate commensurate with your experience / skills etc.

    Giving them a broad range will result in them 'assuming' the lower of the range is acceptable and its harder to negotiate up.

    I would get back to them sooner than later and give them your current expectations because they are probably marketing you at the lower rate to undercut other agencies / recruiters. This sets your expectations clearly and most importantly you do not p!ss anyone off by suddenly wanting 15-20% more when they offer you the role and wasting multiple people's time.

    • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 13:51

      I agree. I usually don't give any figure this early however the call was so spontaneous and she was pretty adamant.

      I'm about to send off the email once I get some insight. Thank you

  • leelemon on 16/03/2022 - 13:57
    +1

    I think you should probably wait until you get the offer and a contract. Generally, you should be able to negotiate it when they give it to you. You got to keep in mind that you have to sell and advocate for yourself, and don't feel bad - it's a game where they are trying to pay you the least for the most amount of work, and it's your job to get the opposite.

    If you feel like you need an excuse, you could always bluff later - say your current employer provided a counter offer, but you were still interested in their position for xyz reasons and then ask if they were open to negotiating a higher salary.
    I know people where that has actually happened to them, so it's plausible plus the odds should be in your favour, given the labour shortages.

    • djsweet on 16/03/2022 - 14:03
      +2

      Would not recommend waiting until this stage. Often once the offer is drawn up there is much less room for negotiation, as significant changes will have to go way up the chain again. The hiring manager will likely only be able to move <5%. Get your salary expectations in well before the contract is drawn up. This helps with filtering out employers that are going to waste hours of your time in interviews only to lowball you at the final step.

      • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:10

        They're submitting my case for response within about two weeks, so the quicker clarity for both sides the better, I agree. Even if there's more room to negotiate after

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 16/03/2022 - 14:12
    +1

    Wait so the job normally pays 58 a hr but it was advertised at a max salary of 50 an hour but you said it was ok for 45 per hr?

    so you want to renegotiate for 50-58 an hour after acknowledging the job only pays 45 an hr?

    To answer your question 'yes' you can renegotiate but i dont know how successful you will be…

    • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:15

      No, so when applying there was no indication of the job and employer until they got back to me, until I dug deeper the other night and saw a few adverts of the same role paying in the higher range.

      They did not indicate pay, I lowballed myself in this case and now knowing that the pay for the role is in the high 50s, I just want to see what will happen. I feel like they said $45 was acknowledged only because they can and it's to their benefit

      • Trying2SaveABuck on 16/03/2022 - 14:41

        Oh ok that 'clears' it up. - did you say that you were 'expecting' or 'based on your experience' that is unacceptable?

        You can always negotiate salary but if it is a public employer they generally have less 'wiggle' room due to funding commitments opposed to private enterprise.

        Straight off the bat i would said im not interested unless the salary is xyz - otherwise if you get the position and then try to 're-negotiate' salary you might be just waiting your time.

        I think it is 'poor forum' for any job to be advertised without remuneration ranges in the ad - nothing pisses me off then when they have crap like 'above award' or 'competitive remuneration'

        In most cases ive found if they 'dont advertise the salary' it is usually becuz it is below or just bearly at the market expectation almost 'never' above or what would be considered 'fair enough'

        • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:46

          I basically said that I'd like to clarify the pay rate based on my experience I believe that xx is a more reasonable remuneration rate.

          Yeah renegotiation is always the hard part, which is why I sent off the email stating that if they want to discuss it further with me I'd be more than happy to do so.

          Agreed, I personally dislike postings where they aren't clear on the rate, exactly, so frustrating.

          That could well be true, otherwise what is there to hide.

          Let's see what she has to come back with. Thanks for your insight, if anything else, do share

          • Trying2SaveABuck on 16/03/2022 - 14:49

            @jnathanc: Then imho you have done everything by the book and what would be expected - i think they have done a 'shifty' in the job ad and would be surprised if they give you anything over 50 an hour

            If it is a 'contract' roll you might have a 'bit' more wiggle room but the difference between 45 and 58 is almost 30% which is a fair buffer and i doubt you will get that.

            Honestly i'd be looking else where until they give you the nod.

            • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:54

              @Trying2SaveABuck: It is definitely a lot higher, I guess it depends how much they want me. I'm happy to neg. Yeah they're a consulting agency based in Sydney who work directly with the federal government.

              Just needed to do it before she submits everything to the fed gvt. Which is why I wanted to send out email correspondence asap.

              Of course all employers do this where they play tag on the lowest number you give.

              She kept asking over and over "what's your current pay grade" and I said 'at this point in time I believe it's too early in the process to talk about salary' but I gave in and thought giving a range would be safe (what was I thinking… haha) then she hit me with "we can do 45" and I knew I (profanity) up, so I replied with "that's definitely a starting point".

              Fingers crossed!

              • Trying2SaveABuck on 16/03/2022 - 15:35

                @jnathanc: Good luck - all i can say let us know how it goes would be interesting to see how much the move from 45

              • kiitos on 17/03/2022 - 09:51
                +1

                @jnathanc: Is your current role the same as the role you're applying for? If not, then current pay doesn't have as much being on what you should be paid in the new role.

  • Roentgenium on 16/03/2022 - 14:26
    +3

    I’m a APS employee.

    Are you applying for a position with a consultant/contractor who has the government as a client? (In my agency they’re known as outsource or external) Or dealing with a recruitment company who are offering a permanent APS position?

    If it’s an APS position (APS1-6 and EL1 or EL2), salaries are fixed (within the agency). An APS6 call centre team leader gets the same as a APS6 IT analyst. There is no negation. When the govt lists a job it’s usually in the title what level the position is.

    Look up the job on apsjobs.gov.au or in the gazette if it’s for a job that has already closed.

    • jnathanc on 16/03/2022 - 14:35
      +1

      It's a contract role with extension. APS5

      Okay so it's fixed, I've sent through an email stating what I believe I should be paid based on experience and skillset that aligns with what they're looking for.

      Yeah government direct roles I've seen do have the position stated in the title.

      Let's see what they say, worst case is that I just go through with it and see if I have any luck at the offer stage.

      Thank you

      • bjd533 on 16/03/2022 - 16:46

        Hey man sorry late to the party.

        I can't speak for your industry, but as a general rule the most important thing is to decide how badly you want the job vs sticking up for yourself. It can be really handy in your decision making.

        The other one is your fallback - how bad is it?

        So you have the spectrum - going in non committal and quoting industry average (the fun part is you get to perform mock surprise and disappointment if they are under) or taking the job with whatever reasonable pay they give you and once employed start planning your next step.

        If it's the former, don't mess about. Call, email, say you forgot to raise it or you mispoke. Perhaps you spoke to a mentor. It's not the end of the world to change your request but you have to be fast.

        Make them say no to your face or on the phone - much harder that way. If you send an email you know what the reply will be.

        Good luck!

        • cupcake on 16/03/2022 - 16:54

          Agree. I wouldn't email. I would speak directly over the phone.

      • tik tok on 17/03/2022 - 16:44

        If its a contract role at an APS5 level, I wouldn't be talking less than $90 an hour (inc super). I am surprised how you arrived at $55! There is a f ton of gov hiring going on atm - if you lose this agency, you will find another. Obviously you need to have some talent.

    • Tommyaka on 17/03/2022 - 09:15

      Generally this is true however some agencies and departments are willing to pay top dollar for specialised staff, specifically ICT and cybersecurity.

      The other week I saw the Australian Digital Health Agency paying about $20-50k more than their Enterprise Agreement pay rate. This meant an APS6 staff member was being paid as much as an EL1/2.

      They were able to do this through individual flexible agreements (essentially bypassing the Enterprise Agreement).

  • cupcake on 16/03/2022 - 16:53

    You still have time to renegotiate the expected salary.
    Government jobs require so many stages in the recruitment process so when you get an opportunity, be sure to confirm remuneration before you sign a contract when it is offered. You can still express you would like the top end of the pay scale for the position.
    My sister made an easy one minute phone call. She was emailed the contract to sign at final stage, and she rang them back saying "I thought the role was for the 88K pa advertised, not $80K pa" and the supervisor just said "ok no problem".
    Also, if you get the job, you will be working at a state or federal level, you will likely get 3% annual increases?
    My advice is to word it nicely.

    Government jobs seem harder to get into with it's stages, however it is also hard for them to get rid of you. In saying that, employers in general have a way of doing things to get rid of people. Moving you around, changing your role, making you work with people you don't want to work with, which is why having a contract is very important. If there is an opportunity for extension after the contract ends, you can negotiate again as well.

  • Mechz on 16/03/2022 - 21:01
    +2

    It's never a good idea to tell anyone who's looking to employ you, how much you get now. It's confidential info and you can tell them so, they're just prodding to get you for the lowest possible cost.

    • fredblogs on 17/03/2022 - 12:10

      Unless you're paid well above market rates…

  • Kayrhcp on 17/03/2022 - 08:28
    +1

    You may not find yourself with a chance to renegotiate after this. I’ve learned that the hard way.
    ALWAYS know how much you want for job before they ask you cause in big firms, you only get one shot and that can be your salary for years after.

  • HelpMeiCantSee on 17/03/2022 - 08:52

    What’s the role? Senior nurses, paramedics (including critical care paramedics!) earn significantly less than $50 per hour… Even junior to mid doctors earn less!

    Local government is a good gig, not much “real” work, but sometimes late days and lots of phone calls. It’s pretty nice lol

    I guess that was a ramble about not much hey. #poopost

    • jnathanc on 17/03/2022 - 18:04

      The roles within the safety commission of Victoria. Knowing the role and which department it is with now, I know how much they are offering but prior to the call, the advertisement was extremely vague (no position, no level, no pay) which is why I couldn't really prepare myself. Although thinking back, I still should of aimed a lot higher just to be safe.

      Yeah you're right, it's pretty laid back with a spike here and there

  • ColtNoir on 17/03/2022 - 13:03
    +2

    If you have the skills and experience they need, they’ll pay it, especially if it’s within their normal range.

    I joined a large company in November last year. I said the whole time my range was 150k-165k/ year base wage (knowing full well I’d never get 165k). ‘No problem’ was their response, I’ll put it forward to the hiring manager.
    I had a friend in that company say it’s unlikely that I’ll get it, but I knew that my skills are niche, in short supply, especially local talent, so I went with my gut.

    After all the interviews etc they came back with something awfully specific 145674 or something like that. Having been a hiring manager before I knew this was the highest they could go without extra approval.

    My response was I’m super excited for the role, but I need to be pragmatic here and say that it’s below my expectations and what could they (the interns recruiter) do to bump it up.

    I ended up getting the 150k base after about 2 weeks as the approver was on holidays (forced holidays due to no one taking leave during the pandemic).

    The lessons I learnt were
    1. Make the recruiter your ally, not a combatant
    2. If giving a pay range, always put the lower end as to what you’ll accept.
    3. Job seek while you have a job(your leverage), so you can be willing to walk away.

    My current pay is a solid 40% on top of what I was being paid for 5+ years at my old company, so part of my negotiation was really validating.

    The best line I was ever given by a mentor was ‘the biggest pay rise you’ll ever get is when you first join a company’.

    Good luck, and don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

    • jnathanc on 17/03/2022 - 18:01
      +1

      Really appreciate the response.

      For the role I do believe I have the experience they're looking for, hopefully they see that.

      I sent off an email yesterday after receiving a second call clarifying my pay expectations after I had already given a range (huge mistake), but that's also because they're submitting my application so I don't want to drag it out too long and miss the opportunity to put in what I really think I should earn, but then like others have said, there will be times for you to negotiate pay throughout the process.

      I have another role which I interviewed for yesterday and I feel like that went very well, so I definitely never just rely on the one avenue.

      But yes I also agree that what you'll be on at the start is pretty much what you'll be on for as long as you're there with small increments of pay increases.

      Thank you

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