Deciding between 2 Solar Quotes, Asking for Input

jztilly on 13/05/2022 - 08:50

Hi all,

We went through solarquotes to request 3 quotes but are stuck between two of them. I'm wondering if the good people of ozbargain could help sway us one way or the other…

The first quote is comprised of:

  • 16x HT-SAAE HT54-18X 415W Panels (25yr product warranty)
  • 16x SolarEdge S440 DC Optimisers (25yr product warranty)
  • SolarEdge Genesis SE5000H Inverter (12 yr product warranty)
  • Alpha Smile-B3-Plus 5.04kWh battery (5yr product warranty)
    $10,892

The second is:

  • 20 x Q CELLS Q.MAXX-G3 390 Panels (15yr product warranty)
  • Fronius Australia-Primo 6.0-1 (5yr +5yr? product warranty)
    $7,772

The prospect of the 25 year warranty on the HT panels sounds great, as well as the, albeit small, battery. What puts me off about this one is the brand of the panels not being on the SolarQuotes trusted brands page. There is a HT-SAAE review page which I've read, but still doesn't seem to sell confidence like the other brands.

The second quote entices me due to the brands being on the SolarQuotes trusted brands page in the middle/premium side of the chart - even though the product warranties aren't as long as the first quote. While there's no battery in this setup, it looks to be able to produce more power too.

We use on average approx 20kWh a day and were hoping the battery could help fill in part of the day between sundown and bedtime. Also provides us a tiny bit of blackout protection which comes as part of the install.

Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

Home & Garden Solar Energy System

Comments

  • Caped Baldy on 13/05/2022 - 09:12
    +2

    I'm no expert but my 2c is that
    -It seems a bit expensive. Have you considered any government grants and rebates?
    -Inverter is the most important part so make sure it's got a good warranty.
    -Pay off for batteries is still a long time and not worth it at this stage imo.
    -What are you doing to use 20kWh per day?

    • digressfool on 13/05/2022 - 11:39

      20kWh/day is not hard for a family with no gas appliances.

  • Quantumcat on 13/05/2022 - 09:13
    +2

    Batteries are not worth it unless you need protection from grid outages (which is not guaranteed, you have to ask for it and pay extra, otherwise the batteries stop working when the grid goes down)

  • jztilly on 13/05/2022 - 09:20

    Thanks for the input!

    • it does seem a bit expensive, but that appears to be in line with the VIC - Average price paid chart. Prices seem to be heading upwards instead of downwards. The battery system includes the $3500 vic battery rebate and the solar only system includes the $1400 vic solar rebate. We can only pick one or the other.
    • both systems have quality inverters.
    • i kind of agree regards the battery, but the initial outlay is $3120 compared to the solar only system. i know its small, but just figured there's a potential to get through a part of the 3pm-9pm expensive period and hopefully not have to use 5kwh from the grid
    • i work from home, have a homelab in the garage, have kids, have a plasma tv, have 5 split systems

    thanks quantumcat - the battery system includes "blackout protection" which assumes that the battery is charged and can only power a single circuit. the main idea of this one was to attempt to keep the fridge going during an outage

    • Caped Baldy on 13/05/2022 - 10:34

      i work from home, have a homelab in the garage, have kids, have a plasma tv, have 5 split systems

      You need to get into angry dad mode and monitor air con and energy use. Even the oil column heaters rack up the energy use.

    • Quantumcat on 13/05/2022 - 10:50

      There's 2 types of blackout protection, one where the battery won't accept any new power from the solar panels and will just discharge until it runs out, and the other where it will accept power from the solar panels. If you only ever suffer short blackouts (few hours at most) then you don't need the second type but it is worth checking in case you were expecting the second and are disappointed if you occasionally have multi-day blackouts.

      But yeah $3k is worthwhile if it happens a few times a year, losing the contents of a fridge sucks, not just having to pay for extra food but the hassle of emptying it and cleaning and the smell!

  • elgrande on 13/05/2022 - 09:22
    +1

    My comment comes with a 300 year warranty.

  • Master Bates on 13/05/2022 - 09:36
    +2

    I believe warranty is only as good as long as the installer/manufacturer is around, so factor that into your decision making.

    I also think Fronius were seen to be one of the best inverters on the market at one point.

    The first quote has more parts, therefore maybe more potential points of failure? By definition, The optimisers allow the new modules to operate at their maximum output without being hampered by the older, lower producing panels.' Well they're all new panels, so not sure if that's a sign about panel quality…

    • jztilly on 13/05/2022 - 10:04

      the optimisers are a middle ground between string inverters and microinverters. they allow a shaded or degraded panel to not bring down the entire string. also allows monitoring of each panel.

      • Master Bates on 13/05/2022 - 10:14

        So you will have panels that will be in shaded areas during the day?

        If not then back to:

        not sure if that's a sign about panel quality

        • jztilly on 13/05/2022 - 10:18
          +1

          could be! i did point out my concern in the post :)

          i think we'll go with the second, solar only option

          • Master Bates on 13/05/2022 - 10:23
            +1

            @jztilly: When I look at it subjectively, I just think a 25 year warranty is trying to sell something that is perhaps not that great and that they may not be around in 5 years time (as you tend to hear in the solar game). This is just what came to mind when I saw the OP.

            Maybe send Finn a message on SolarQuotes asking why those panels are not on his list yet.

            • jztilly on 13/05/2022 - 10:31
              +1

              @Master Bates: thanks mate. I emailed Finn yesterday but haven't heard back yet.

              solarquotes does have this HT-SAAE page which summarises at the end:

              HT-SAAE solar panels are tier one and did well in independent testing, so I expect them to be reliable. I’d prefer it if they had an Australian office, but that’s not necessarily a deal breaker for good quality panels, as they are unlikely to have problems in the first place. You can also research the Australian importer and decide if they seem likely to be around long term.

              • Master Bates on 13/05/2022 - 10:37
                +1

                @jztilly: Okay, so he has an opinion on them, which is something.

                • I’d prefer it if they had an Australian office
                • You can also research the Australian importer and decide if they seem likely to be around long term.

                This is probably why he doesn't recommend them. Which goes back to the whole 25 year warranty thing. Perhaps they're good panels, just don't purchase for the warranty alone.

                What is the price of quote 1 without the battery? That might be a fairer comparison, even if you opt for the battery package in the end.

                I still question why you need optimisers in a non-shaded area if they're Tier-1 panels.

                • jztilly on 13/05/2022 - 11:16

                  @Master Bates: I do! the price for that system without the battery is $8,794 (but the $3500 rebate gets replaced with the $1400 rebate)

  • teacherer on 13/05/2022 - 10:55

    The difference between the 2 quotes is the microinverters.

    Do you have shade?

    I'd also go with enphase over solaredge from all the feedback i've seen online.

    I went fronius because there is no shade on my roof at all.

    • jztilly on 13/05/2022 - 11:15

      they're not microinverters. the microinvertors were another $1.2k. as i mentioned above - the optimisers work with a string invertor, micro inverters replace the inverter.

      • teacherer on 13/05/2022 - 11:18
        +1

        I know mate. I was simplifying my response.

        Considering many installers in my town refuse to use solar edge and their dubious reputation on the solar Facebook pages, if you have shade I'd spend the extra on enphase.

    • SBOB on 13/05/2022 - 11:39

      The difference between the 2 quotes is the microinverters.

      and the useless battery

  • SBOB on 13/05/2022 - 11:40

    If you dont have shade issues, then option 2

    if you do have shade issues, then why is an installer giving you option 2?

    did either of these quotes come out to check the install location or just did it via nearview maps?

  • netjock on 13/05/2022 - 12:00

    It isn't really a good comparison as different number of panels total output, inverters with / without battery.

    I assume the price difference is really the battery offset by the higher price of the Fronius inverter. It comes down to whether you need a battery and an expensive inverter.

    Settle on an inverter size (ie 5kw) and 1.3x number of panels the ask how much to add a battery. Makes the decision a lot easier.

  • Drakesy on 13/05/2022 - 12:01
    +2

    For another $3000 i'd take the battery option personally.

    But even then those prices sound a bit high. A 7.8kw system should be closer to $5-$6k

  • moar bargains on 13/05/2022 - 12:02
    +1

    If you have no shade on your roof (or chance of shade in the next 10-15 years through trees growing), I would go with the second quote. My three main reasons are:

    • It's lower capital outlay right now. You don't get the battery, but $3.1k buys a fair bit of power. That's something like 2000 days of full discharge of the battery (based on a round figure of $0.30 per kWh). That's giving the battery about a 5 year payback, which is ok, but that's pretty close to the warranty period. If you don't use the full battery every day, or have cheaper power than that, you lose (from a financial perspective - there are lots of other reasons for wanting to add batteries).
    • It's relatively easy to add a battery later, compared to adding more panels on the roof, so go for the biggest system you can fit and afford today, i.e. the most panels of largest wattage. That looks like the second quote (7.8 kWp assuming 390W panels vs 6.64 kWp).
    • The panels are much less likely to give you trouble than the inverter. So it's better to get a quality inverter and save on the panels, rather than the other way around. You could even speak to the second company about getting slightly cheaper panels (e.g. from the LHS of the solarquotes chart, such as Jinko, Canadian, or Trina - they will have their own preferred option), but keeping that same inverter and similar system size. That would bring costs down further while still being unlikely to have a problem.

    Here's some of my other reasoning:

    • Batteries are not especially good value right now. They keep saying that they will be better in the next few years, which is hopefully true, but that time always seems to be a couple of years away.
    • I admittedly don't have personal experience, but I expect that blackouts in suburban Melbourne of more than an hour or two are exceedingly rare. You obviously know better for your location, but I would be surprised if it was more than a couple a year, if that.
    • Annoying though it is, insurance will cover spoiled food in the fridge, and I assume you're already paying for that, so it's no extra cost.
    • Fronius is a top notch inverter, and has something like 60% market share in Australia (for good reason!).

    Hope that helps!

    • jztilly on 13/05/2022 - 21:46
      +1

      thanks for the info, we've abandoned the idea of a battery for now :)

      • moar bargains on 13/05/2022 - 22:47

        Glad to hear. Hope the install goes well, and then you'll be able to enjoy the sunny days that little bit extra ;)

  • JIMB0 on 13/05/2022 - 21:22

    What is the layout on the roof going to be? Solar edge requires a minimum of 8 panels in a string. Given you are getting 16 panels that'd be 2 strings of 8 panels. Unless all of the panels in a string are facing the same direction you can have problems with underperformance. This can be alleviated by using an optimiser that can output 80v. Careful design is required.

    • jztilly on 13/05/2022 - 21:48

      we have an extension at the back of the original house that has a large flat roof. one of the proposals had 26 panels in two rows (2x13). so there's plenty of space for 2x 8 :)

  • compfam on 16/06/2022 - 19:37

    what does a SolarEdge S440 DC Optimiser do?

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