Hi All,
I've delved into share trading this year and will have some profits/losses to report, this year has been more extensive than the basic years of others. I've seen that going through statement accounts manually of whichever platform is in use can be quite tedious but still achieveable. Are there any tips or services that people on here use to make this an easier task? Also asking as I want to be more organized doing this in the years to come.
Thanks
Thanks!
@Dibs, no probs - I'm more of a buy-hold long termer, so the free version is fine for me - but there's a bunch of upgrades via a subscription fee. Prety sure they have a free trial as well - is a very good and reputable platform so use it with confidence - came highly recommended from an Aussie investing forum to me.
Put it in a spreadsheet as you go. Like: buy price, quantity, date. Then when you sell, add columns sell price, date. Then come tax time its a quick calculation.
thats what i do,
becomes hard when a buy is split over mulitple sales, or vice versa. I generally just split them though by order_number_<X>
I create separate row for each buy order. When I sell, I attribute each sell to a buy. If the sell quantity is less than the buy, I split the buy into two rows. If the sell quantity is more than the buy, I prorate the brokerage across multiple buys (rows).
ditto.
Are there any tips or services that people on here use to make this an easier task?
I use an Excel Spreadsheet.
I use an Excel Spreadsheet
I Excel at sheet spreading
I am rather sheet at Excel
I used to think that jv used bold words for emphasis and that's how I've always read his posts, but now I'm not so sure. Emphasizing 'Excel' doesn't even make sense.
It's best to try not understand why jv does anything.
Meth. Meth.
Don’t do drugs kids.
Excellent comments.
Nikko is on point, Sharesight is the only thing you need.
Sure, if you want to waste $29 every month, vs updating a row on a spreadsheet which is FREE…
Really depends on the OP's trading style - if he's a day trader &/or holding less than 10 different equities at any time - the free version may more than meet his needs. If he wants a bunch of extra reports, the sub fee, which is a deductable investment expense again may be worth it.
Sharesight does a lot of stuff than a basic spreadsheet will not - I've used both, SS is a clear winner IMHO but again thats as I only hold around 5 different ETFs long term. Anyway OP can decide what suits him best, he wanted options - am pretty confident he was aware of Excel etc plus you have to place a value on your time in maintaining a spreadsheet, if you're doing a crapload of trades even a paid version would pay for itself pretty soon.
I only have IAG shares, but these are are directly reported to the ATO when I go in to do my tax
I think you may be referring to the dividends, rather than the outcomes of any trading.
Sharesight has bugs with avg purchase price after you sell and buy a few times, it cant work it out correctly.
Anyway I just use my own spreadsheet and pair up buys with sells, and this will be a lifelong spreadsheet. can archive old crap off every year and make a new sheet.
be weary of wash sales, the ATO will bend you over
Wash sales?
selling shit to make a deliberate loss, and buying straight back. ATO will deem this a void transaction.
as usual ATO has favorable rules for themselves, and not the same back
Ahh good you pointed that out, I was planning to do a bit of that. Is there a minimum time limit between selling and re-purchase?
@LanceVance: nah no limit,i generally wait >30 days
i guess if a stock went down a further 2% or u waited 30 days+ that be a good defence.
ATO sucks imho their rules are one side.
whether they catch u or even care is another thing
selling shit to make a deliberate loss, and buying straight back. ATO will deem this a void transaction.
If you legitimately and legally sold and bought back shares, what is their reason for this?
@jv: From my limited reading in the last half hour it seems that its designed to stop people offsetting other taxable income or financial gains by selling something and buying it immediately back the next financial year. As Donald said though there is no clear time limit or rule that makes it acceptable after a certain period of time. It seems their whole premise also rests on them improving your intent and is totally one-sided in their favour. They clearly just noticed people were legitimately doing this and brought in some arbitrary bs rule to counter it. Classic gov.
@LanceVance: So which law says they can't do this?
Why can't I sell shares and buy new ones with that money?
@jv: You can.
However if the ato deems it a wash sale they will void the transaction as if it never occurred u will the. Get hit with a tax bill for the loss u can now not claim
@jv: Part IVA of the tax act 1936, the general anti avoidance provisions is what you're looking for.
If a transaction is entered into for the sole or dominant purpose of deriving a tax benefit, the ATO can invalidate it
@jv: It was done for sole purpose of generating a loss so they void it the transaction as if it never occurred.
Why do they do this, to minimise people generating losses on purpose to negate capital gains
Is it fair, no
It’s the ato they make the rules an we must indie by them,
Have a read
@jv: Yes you are .
You are not allowed to rebut what u sold straight back and claim a loss. What you do do and whether they catch you / follow you up is another thing, there rules are grey as shit
I.e if I have 10k capital gain this fy I can’t go sell something at a 10k loss on June 28 and rebuy back the next day
You need to wait 30 days, 3 months etc or have a market drop further to justify you sold only to rebuy back if it went down , or not buy back at all and move on to another share.
Easiest way is to just sell one etc and buy another
I.e if I have 10k capital gain this fy I can’t go sell something at a 10k loss on June 28 and rebuy back the next day
What if you buy something else with it?
@jv: you can do that, i.e selling telstra and buying coles, its a blurry line when you seel one ETF and buy another like VAs to IOZ.. they ato could easily say its the same shit different company, but very hard for them to challenge maybe not worth their time.
thats how i understand it
I.e if I have 10k capital gain this fy I can’t go sell something at a 10k loss on June 28 and rebuy back the next day
Do they also crack down on you if you sell on 1st July to take profit into the next year?
@jv: which two?
if its the two examples
1.) is selling to make a deliberate loss and rebuying back (LOSS)
2.) is selling a stock at a profit a specifc point in time in this case July 1 to delay the tax due bill (GAIN)
@Donaldhump: LOSS on 30-Jun vs GAIN on 1-Jul.
They are your shares, you should be able to buy and sell whenever you want to…
@Donaldhump: I don't really get it.
You buy a stock for $10 and it drops to $5. You claim a $5 capital loss that year. You buy them straight back at $5 and two years later you sell for $15.
Youve now made a $10 capital gain offset against carried forward $5 capital loss. Net $5 gain.
But if you kept them from original purchase, held tight through the dip and sold at $15 you would still make a capital gain of $5.
Where's the net benefit? You're just shifting money around.
@Drj55: The tax office is run by ✏️ necks making up rules to justify their wage and make life difficult for investors.
Sell the stonks at a loss and buy derivatives. Flip back and forth when needed.
and earn 50% an hour, by now you should be richer than the sultan of brunei
Use spaceship they work out every thing for you
If you do a lot of it, you can consider becoming a ‘share trader’ instead of a ‘share investor’. The tax treatment is simplified considerably, as your shares are just ordinary stock for buying and selling – just like any retail business.
You have to calculate Gross Profit, which is Sales – Cost of Sales.
Sales is everything you sold during year.
Cost of Sales = Opening Stock at the beginning of year + All your share purchases during the year – Closing Stock at end of the year.
The Closing stock can simply be based on the market price of the shares at end of the year (other valuations are also possible).
This makes it considerably easier to manage.
But do talk to your accountant about its suitability based on your personal circumstances.
jv ruined this thread
Have a look at Moneydance a full featured finance program that can handle share buys & sales, dividends as well as the rest of your finances, similar concept to Quicken just a lot cheaper.
have a look at this Assie piece of software, I been using them for decade just a once off purchase for a few hundred bucks (perpetual license)
it has 60 days trial, you can do some data entry dummy and reports and see if you like it, it has IRR calculator which I use to tracked my performance
data entry your trade or automate it with bulk contract import and it works out the rest for you,
each time you sell shares, you get to picked minimise capital gain or maximise capital gain
and it work out what parcel to sell or part of the parcel etc… print a report come tax time takes 2 minutes done, save me lot of time over the year
spreadsheets is too hard to maintain the longer you use them
Register and use Sharesight for your trades - you can do manually or link to your trading platform (most times) - works very well for me.