Buying a New Motorbike and The Seller Wants a 1k Deposit. How Do I Protect Myself from a Potential Scam?

de_st1jlinator on 16/07/2022 - 18:35

Hi OzBargainers, I've found a motorbike I'd like to buy on Facebook and went down for a test ride. They seem like a nice family with a little bub. We've negotiated the price and they now want $1000 for a deposit and to sort out the RWC. They've given me their bank details for a deposit but I'm uncomfortable just sending that across. I want to send them just $150 to sort the RWC, but even sending $150 via bank transfer makes me uneasy.

How have you handled a similar situation when buying a bike or car?

Automotive

Comments

  • garetz on 16/07/2022 - 18:43
    +88

    The way you protect yourself is to just not do it. Cash on pick up only.

    • MikeKulls on 18/07/2022 - 13:55
      +2

      I know of people who've put down larger deposits and then noticed major flaws in the vehicle so have lost their deposit. I would have pushed for deposit back but they didn't

  • El cheepo on 16/07/2022 - 18:44
    +9

    Tell him he’s dreaming…

    The RWC is understandable, the rest is a joke.
    Out of curiosity though…What bike?

    • de_st1jlinator on 16/07/2022 - 19:09
      +2

      It does seem over the top. It's an XSR700.

      • Benicio on 17/07/2022 - 19:23
        +8

        nice bike. Still wouldnt give a deposit.

    • Pudina Chutney on 17/07/2022 - 19:59
      +2

      Rugby World cup?

      • El cheepo on 17/07/2022 - 20:00
        +1

        Rally actually.

    • TEER3X on 18/07/2022 - 16:44
      +5

      What about jousting sticks for $600?

  • kerfuffle on 16/07/2022 - 18:50
    +19

    $1000 deposit sounds rich for a used bike. My new car which I had to order was $1000 deposit …

    • Ade99 on 17/07/2022 - 09:04
      +23

      $50, maybe $100 as a sign of good faith and for them to take the advert down. RWC don't cost $1K!

      • Harold Halfprice on 18/07/2022 - 22:36
        +7

        I wouldn't take down an ad for $100. I wouldn't even publicly mark it at sold at that point.

        Last car I sold, buyer gave me a $300 cash deposit and I gave him a signed receipt - I sorted out the roadworthy and then they started saying they were having trouble getting the full amount out of his term deposit, asked for a bit more time, promised me he'd get the money, then literally just stopped returning my calls and texts and blocked my number (didn't even ask for his deposit back…).

        In the mean time, I pushed away too many potential buyers, and later some were skeptical as to why the sale fell through. Wasn't worth the $300.

        A Vic RWC has a time limit on it as well, so if you don't find another buyer within 30 days, you have to get another one.

        Also, OP hasn't stated how much this bike is worth. Could be a 20-30k bike.

    • ATangk on 17/07/2022 - 15:25

      It’s not uncommon for test rides on bikes to be cash in hand first. But this isn’t really the same.

  • GrueHunter on 16/07/2022 - 18:50
    -4

    How would you be happy to receive a $1000 deposit?

  • barbarella on 16/07/2022 - 18:54

    if it doesn't feel right then don't do it…

  • brendanm on 16/07/2022 - 18:55
    +20

    Last car I sold, I took a $50 deposit. $1000 seems ridiculous.

    • BlueberryOrangeJuice on 18/07/2022 - 22:09
      +3

      For $50 I’d assume the person could flake pretty easily. I’d think that $500 seems pretty reasonable. It shows you’re not jerking around, and should give the seller peace of mind and also the buyer to know that it’s enough money to secure it. For $50 the seller could just offer you the $50 back because someone offered them more money.

      What sort of car did you sell out of interest?

      • brendanm on 18/07/2022 - 22:19
        -1

        I've dealt with enough of these things that I know he wasn't going to muck around, he would have paid more, I told him $50 was fine. Rwc cost me $90 and I was going to get it done anyway, and had plenty of interest, so didn't really care.

        MK7 golf.

  • AndyC1 on 16/07/2022 - 18:57
    +5

    Why does it need a RWC? RWC are relatively cheap. I would transfer $50 or $100 to cover the RWC and pick it up on Tuesday or Wednesday and pay the rest in cash if the RWC passes.

    Call and say you only want to pay for the RWC and the rest on pickup once it passes the RWC. Get them to call you once the RWC is done so you can pick it up after work.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/07/2022 - 19:03
    +42

    say goodbye to that $1k and the bike if you do it. plenty of people seem good when you are dealing with them, most of the time it's an act and as soon as they have what they want, you will see a completely different side to them.

    i wouldn't even pay for the RWC in advance, who is to say that they won't take the money and sell the bike to someone else because they offered more at the last minute? unless you have something legally binding, it's a bad idea to give money in advance to a private seller. cops won't be interested either, too busy revenue raising to do any real work.

    there will be other bikes, it's just a matter of patience to find the right one if they won't back down from their unreasonable demand, let them sucker someone else.

    • de_st1jlinator on 16/07/2022 - 19:13
      +4

      Fair advice, thank you. I sort of am leaning toward moving on. I can understand RWC in advance though. When I sold my motorbike I got them to transfer me for the RWC because it's only valid for 30 days. It's money out of my pocket if I pay for it and they change their mind.

      • [Deactivated] on 16/07/2022 - 19:17

        that's true, but it's still a risk giving money to someone without some kind of contract, i just don't feel comfortable doing so, as the reverse is true of the situation you mentioned; they pull out and you are out of pocket, as well as a bike

      • Hackney on 17/07/2022 - 06:26

        Run!

      • A-mak on 17/07/2022 - 21:21
        +6

        Book the RWC at your chosen mechanic yourself and just have the seller confirm the date+time suits them. I would never give someone else money on good faith alone (unless they family). $1k is ludicrous. It's your money, they could book it in to a dodgy mechanic or just keep what they can swindle out of ya.

        When you looked at the bike and were negotiating did they even have transfer papers?

    • Drpepper666 on 17/07/2022 - 18:12
      +2

      It's not a police matter if you willingly give somebody cash for nothing lol

    • Daz91 on 19/07/2022 - 09:27

      I’ve never sold a vehicle without at least a $1000 deposit. Pretty normal in Melbourne

  • zonra on 16/07/2022 - 19:09
    +2

    I wouldn’t trust some randos to actually show up to pick up freebies from me, and I certainly wouldn’t trust them enough to hold my $50 note, let alone 1k.

  • mapax on 16/07/2022 - 19:17
    +4

    Too many scumbags these days to hand over $1k, but the last non-project car I bought was over 15 years ago and I paid a $300 deposit.
    To save everyone a long winded anecdote I’ll just say it was kind of a weird situation where the girl selling the car and I just meshed and we both trusted each other more than we should have. It worked out well for both of us though.

    • bloom on 16/07/2022 - 20:50
      +33

      Giggity.

      • mapax on 16/07/2022 - 21:20
        +6

        Haha. Not like that, but almost.

        • SF3 on 16/07/2022 - 22:49

          She is your spouse now eh.

  • Sterio on 16/07/2022 - 19:24

    Agree with others above.

    $50-$100 is more than enough for a deposit.

    For peace of mind. Did you actually visit the sellers residence? So you know where they live.

    Have you seen their license and them yours? I gather the seller sighted your license before allowing you a test drive. Their license will give you comfort they they actually do live at the place the bike was.

    Did you see the bikes rego papers? This will show the name of the seller and the address. Match these to their license.

    • de_st1jlinator on 16/07/2022 - 20:41
      -3

      Yep I've visited their house so I know their address, which makes me think I could chase them up if things go awry.

      • AndyC1 on 16/07/2022 - 22:06
        +2

        Police will do nothing, unless they are known to the police.

        • zonra on 16/07/2022 - 22:30
          +6

          They will still do nothing. It’s a civil matter unless they physically rob you.

      • Hackney on 17/07/2022 - 06:27
        +2

        You don’t want to be ‘chasing’ them, things could turn very ugly for you.Just move on to something else.

      • OzBrogains on 17/07/2022 - 17:27
        +5

        Hypothetical situation. Guy takes your $1k and doesn’t deliver his end of the transaction. You rock up to his house, knock on his door and he tells you to F off behind the closed door. What do you actually do then?

        • Serapis on 18/07/2022 - 18:06
          +1

          Call bikies to his house to break his kneecaps and take the bike

      • uNoWhO on 17/07/2022 - 19:58
        +7

        did you actually go into their house, or meet them outside?

        either way, theres nothing stopping them from getting an airbnb for a few days especially if they are collecting $1000 deposits from a few people

  • SlowCarSlow on 16/07/2022 - 19:55
    +9

    Tell them if they get a RWC you'll come the same day. No way I'd do a deposit. Most people list cars for sale after they get a RWC, they last a month which should be enough time to sell. How long has it been listed?

    • de_st1jlinator on 16/07/2022 - 20:43
      +1

      It's been listed a fair while - 11 weeks. But that doesn't seem too unusual. I've seen a few of the same bikes floating around for about the same time.

      • SlowCarSlow on 16/07/2022 - 20:50

        Regardless, no way I'd be putting money down for something with no cert. Bikes don't move as fast as cars I guess.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2022 - 07:40

        Maybe. But it's more typical things listed at their correct value sell in days, not weeks. Because there's someone who wants to buy everything that's for sale. But the way most sellers decide their asking price is by looking up ads selling the same item (who also had no clue what their item was worth so did the same thing). In the end all those items are overpriced, so sit unsold for weeks because they've either copied someone else's price who also had no clue, or they know it's worth less but asked more out of greed, thinking "If I get more great, if not, they can talk me down a bit to the real value." Instead their greed drives away the dozen buyers who would have bought it at its real value in the first week. So it sits there… unsold… for weeks… so most buyers now think "Been listed for weeks, must be something wrong with it."… until someone who also has no idea of its real value sees ALL similar items listed about that same price, so they think: "Hm… that must be what they're worth I guess, so if I want one I'll just have to pay that." So they pick the best/nearest/easiest one, if finally sells, and it confirms to everyone else their price is correct (when it isn't). ;-D

  • pegaxs on 16/07/2022 - 20:11
    +7

    How do I protect myself from a potential scam?

    By not giving it to them. Simples.

    The only amount you should be on the hook for is any "requested" work done for the bike. Paying for a RWC is fair, as it would be a costly exercise for them to get one done only to have you reneg on the deal. I would offer them enough to get a RWC done and no more.

    Alternatively, you can tell them to not worry about the RWC if you think the bike will pass without issues and just pay in full in cash when you organise to pick the bike up.

    If they start in with the "well, I need a deposit or I'll sell it to someone else", you just say "that's ok, if you sell it to someone else before *insert pick up date*, then that is fine, if not, I'll be there on *pick up date* with cash to pick it up."

    And, most importantly, if you do hand over any cashola, ALWAYS get some form of receipt from them or something saying that they have accepted this payment as part payment for the vehicle sold. If you have to, always carry a pre-written form for them to sign. No sign, no cash.

    • Euphemistic on 18/07/2022 - 08:01

      Alternatively, you can tell them to not worry about the RWC if you think the bike will pass without issues and just pay in full in cash when you organise to pick the bike up.

      This. Surely a motorbike can’t have many hidden issues that would fail a RWC. If in doubt, get a copy of the checklist items and do your own RW inspection then pay the full amount or walk away.

      Oil leaks, no clunks in suspension, steering and lights and speedo work. What else is there?

      • Wallyt99 on 18/07/2022 - 12:00
        +2

        Fork seals are very common. Chain and sprocket the other big one.

        Mudguard & brakes also reasonably common.

        • Euphemistic on 18/07/2022 - 12:54

          And probably not too hard to check either.

  • pharkurnell on 16/07/2022 - 20:22
    -4

    Hes probably had 10 tyre kickers who have all agreed on a price, pissed off and never come back again….

    1000 on a bike that price seems fair to me. Will make sure you come back.

    YMMV

    • stewy on 17/07/2022 - 15:30
      +2

      $1000 would only be fair if the seller was ready to pass ownership over on the spot but the buyer wasn't ready.

      In this case the buyer is ready but the seller isn't. OP shouldn't be paying the seller anything more than the RWC cost as a deposit.

      • pharkurnell on 17/07/2022 - 16:29

        Why would you need a deposit if the owner is going to pass ownership on the spot? You'd pay the full amount.

        • stewy on 17/07/2022 - 17:15

          but the buyer wasn't ready

          ie. buyer needs to go to bank and get cash out, bank transfer, finalise loan, etc….

    • dwarves on 18/07/2022 - 17:59

      Right??? WTF is wrong with all these people? Seems they’ve never bought anything of value privately. In fact, these are probably the very fwits I hate dealing with on Carsales etc, all talk and no action.

  • Ugly on 16/07/2022 - 20:36
    -5

    Not in banking, but afaik you can get a bank cheque, but ask for it to be future-dated (put the date on the cheque for say 2 weeks time).
    The other party can’t deposit the cheque before the date on it, (a bank will not allow a cheque to be deposited prior to the date on the cheque) but, if they don’t follow through on their end before the nominated date, you can go back to the bank before that date and cancel it.

    • de_st1jlinator on 16/07/2022 - 20:47

      Thank you for that suggestion! I'm planning on calling them up and I'll suggest this to them.

      • SlowCarSlow on 16/07/2022 - 21:25
        +9

        This suggestion isn't good. It's convoluted and sounds sus. Offer to meet them where the bike is getting it's certificate or something instead. You suggest this to them and might as well just move on to the next bike, because they won't be interested in talking to you again.

      • trapper on 18/07/2022 - 13:56
        +1

        No don't do this.

        It's not easy to cancel a bank cheque if you don't have it in your possession.

        You would need to report it lost or stolen (ie lie) to the bank, and even then they will probably hold your money for a while in case of any dispute.

        • happydude on 18/07/2022 - 18:07

          This. You can't just cancel an bank cheque.

  • Empharand on 16/07/2022 - 20:41
    -1

    Only send a deposit (via EFT) if the receiver can provide an invoice (with valid ABN) that way you have a paper trail.
    If it's a private seller then simply do not do it, you will likely get scammed.

    • No ONE on 17/07/2022 - 14:10
      +3

      who the fu©k have ABN for private sales.

      • Empharand on 17/07/2022 - 16:39
        +3

        The point I'm trying to convey is that only provide a deposit if there's evidence of said deposit, an invoice with an ABN being one example. No private seller will give you any such thing so if they want a deposit tell them to shove it up their anus. Payment on pickup for all private sales.

        • Tleyx on 17/07/2022 - 19:14
          +1

          What happens if he says he doesn't have abn

  • lachhelix on 16/07/2022 - 21:49
    +2

    Wouldn't bother imo - pick another bike

  • Brucet on 16/07/2022 - 21:59
    -1

    Get other without deposit.

  • bobbified on 16/07/2022 - 22:47
    +5

    Reality is.. one of you will have to wear the risk that the other is a shthead and won't stick to their word.

    If you both want it completely risk-free, move along to the next person, because there's no such thing.

  • t_c on 17/07/2022 - 07:22
    +2

    Did you relay your concerns to the seller that the deposit felt too high and if they would agree to a lesser deposit.

    Did the seller then disagree, or have you simply not asked?

  • Cusacka on 17/07/2022 - 07:48
    +2

    So you give them the $1000 and then get a call that the bike didn't pass RWC and they had to spend your money on repairs, so you'll have to pay more.

  • BigBirdy on 17/07/2022 - 07:59
    -6

    So you don't give them a decent deposit, the seller thinks you're not a serious buyer and looks elsewhere. The two bikes I've sold recently, both buyers transferred the full payment to me while I organised a RWC. I did likewise for a recent purchase. If there's no trust, don't expect a sale. Yes it's risky, and I wouldn't deal in a Macca's carpark.

    • brendanm on 17/07/2022 - 09:38
      +3

      Haha what, you paid the full amount before you could even take it away? That's quite strange. A rwc is cheap, you take a deposit just to be sure they are serious, then get the rwc done. They then pay you the remaining balance, and take the car/bike away. It's not that hard.

      • Herbse on 17/07/2022 - 17:54

        A rwc is $250 and lasts a month. Imaging doing that for every one who claims they want to buy it and pulls out because they found a better deal and didn't put a deposit down.

        No thanks.

        • brendanm on 17/07/2022 - 17:59
          +3

          Oh, it's another "everyone lives in Victoria" post. A rwc in Qld is under $100 and lasts 2 months from memory.

          Also, $250 is not $1000.

    • ColtNoir on 17/07/2022 - 10:42
      +3

      I’d rather lose out on a 2nd hand bike than a $1k deposit. (profanity) that.

    • pharkurnell on 17/07/2022 - 16:34

      Most bikes I've bought I've happily left a deposit and all teh bikes I privately sold I've asked for and got a deposit while I did what i needed to and seller did what he needed..

      Leaving deposit also makes sure seller doesnt sell it to the next person and shows your serious

      • Herbse on 17/07/2022 - 17:55

        Not in the world of ozbargain where people demand 100% security, refunds and assurance that they are safe for every sale regardless of platform

        • pharkurnell on 17/07/2022 - 19:00

          LOL
          thats probably why theres a thread every few days with someone being ripped off. Ive never been ripped, and never ripped anyone….
          also saved myself many days of tyre kickers with their YEA YEA I'LL BE BACK IN FEW DAYS….

  • BuyOrNot on 17/07/2022 - 09:00
    +1

    Write an informal contract saying I the buyer gives $500 to the seller as deposit and will pay the rest after rwc, sign it and keep both your license below the paper and take a picture.

    • dearears on 17/07/2022 - 10:19
      +7

      Useless inho.

      • zonra on 17/07/2022 - 10:31
        +1

        Absolutely.
        When things go south, it’d take nothing short of taking vendor to court to get your money back.
        That means stress & time off work for the possibility of getting your money back.
        Better just not put yourself at risk to start with.

        • Harold Halfprice on 18/07/2022 - 22:52
          +3

          My mum had a "tradie" accept a job and he took a deposit to supposedly purchase supplies. Guy started flaking, never showed, then after a while he gives a sob story that he doesn't have the money anymore as he had to spend it desperately on rent and that he's facing eviction. Probably spent it on drugs.

          She went to the cops, reported it. They called him, said if he doesn't pay the money back by a certain date - they'll be putting out a warrant for his arrest and charging him with fraud. He never paid, but his car eventually got scanned by the Sherrif - they pulled him over and gave him a summons to attend court. Mum got her money back, and she didn't spend a day in court or do anything other than report it to the police.

      • BuyOrNot on 17/07/2022 - 13:22

        I feel the seller wont do all this just to scam people.

  • gwoody on 17/07/2022 - 09:50
    +5

    Keep the baby as collateral.

    • Miss B on 17/07/2022 - 14:47
      +8

      Then you're stuck with the baby if they're scammers. Gonna cost a lot more than $1000.

  • GaryQ on 17/07/2022 - 10:14

    A guy bought a Jaguar from me and put a $200 deposit down… the things the car wasn't running, so I couldn't have scammed him if I tried ;-)

  • ColtNoir on 17/07/2022 - 10:41
    +2

    Just remember a roadworthy cert doesn’t mean it’s mechanically sound.
    Don’t mix them up like I did in my younger years.

  • Given on 17/07/2022 - 11:14
    +3

    Sounds like they want the $1000 to fix something they know won't pass the RWC.

    • 1968 on 18/07/2022 - 10:26
      +3

      exactly. not everyone is a fkn scammer. They simply want to be covered in case you flake. 1K is a bit rich but it also weeds out people that are not serious, so just depends how desperate they are to sell.

      imo 5% deposit is perfectly reasonable. Just write out your own receipt with the terms on it / get copy of their drivers license etc. you would know where they live if anything goes south. I've done this 6 of vehicles/ bikes, all private sales.

  • Vote for Pedro on 17/07/2022 - 14:59
    +2

    Am I missing something?

    Do they want to sell or not? Is the bike ready for sale or not?

    Tell them to call you when they are ready to do the deal and sign the paperwork. Cash only then. Otherwise walk away.

    Also, RWC is not a substitute for a mechanical inspection.

  • adn on 17/07/2022 - 16:02

    Haven't bought a bike but for a car. I deposit 200 after test drive and drafted a contract, got the car inspected by my own mechanic and then it went to RWC.
    One the seller had the RWC met at their loan institute, pay off their loan and gave them the rest as cash. Took the key, arrange insurance and drove the car home.

    • Herbse on 17/07/2022 - 17:18

      Rwc are $250 to $300 now just for the check. Plus the costs of fixing whatever is needed.

      • adn on 17/07/2022 - 22:24

        The deposit isn't to cover the RWC. It to try to stop the seller selling it to someone else.

        • lgacb08 on 18/07/2022 - 20:41

          No, deposit doesn't stop seller to sell to someone else, if he want to scam he can do that regardless. Deposit is to prove buyer being genuine and not wasting selling money on rwc if he decides to do a runner.

  • Herbse on 17/07/2022 - 17:17
    -3

    What's the total amount of the sale? Usual acceptable deposit amount is 10%. If it's $10,000 then that's fair.
    The rwc coats $250 minimum these days, plus he'll have to cover the costs of whatever they decide to pick up that needs fixing.

    Deposit to secure the car and get the rwc has been the norm since the dawn of time. You'd be hard pressed to find a seller who would waste their time with someone not willing to put a deposit down.

    A deposit receipt and taking note of their drivers licence info to use if he doesn't honour the deal is the way to go.

    • OzBrogains on 17/07/2022 - 17:30
      +2

      Yeah nah. No deposit is fair. The RWC can be used to facilitate the next sale if this one goes south. So it benefits the seller anyway as he can add “comes with RWC with no issues found” on the ad.

      Also, what would you do in OP’s situation if the seller took your money, even if you did have his license info?

      • Herbse on 17/07/2022 - 17:44
        +3

        The rwc is only good for one month. And a buyer won't want one that only lasts a couple of days if it's sold again towards the end of that month.
        I've bought over 20 cars privately sold them all, all of them required a deposit to cover the rwc and/or 10% to make sure they don't pull out and waste my time.

        I also don't let people test drive the cars if they're a performance/ rare car unless they put down a deposit. Refundable only if they can fault it.

        If someone is stupid enough to give you all your information and still scam you, then take it to small claims or whatever. It's a stupid thing to risk for $1k and to be honest it's part & parcel of dealing with private sales.
        If people don't understand that then they can pay 20% extra and buy from a used car lot or not at all if it's an older/rare car.

        People saying no deposit needed to sell a car makes me wonder if they've ever bought a car privately. They definitely have never sold one of they think that's ok.

        • OzBrogains on 17/07/2022 - 17:55
          -1

          If the seller can’t sell a bike with an RWC in thirty days in this market then that’s their problem.

          Taking someone to small claims isn’t a guarantee of success and comes with a tremendous amount of stress and uncertainty.

          I doubt you’ve sold any cars if you asked for a deposit tbh.

          • Herbse on 17/07/2022 - 17:55
            -3

            @OzBrogains: Lol

          • 1968 on 18/07/2022 - 10:33
            +2

            @OzBrogains: You would be an absolute moron as a seller to proceed with a RWC without a deposit from a buyer. Anyone who says anything different really needs to get a clue about selling privately.

            • OzBrogains on 18/07/2022 - 10:43
              -2

              @1968: Probably not as much as the moron as someone who gives a stranger a few hundred dollars in good faith.

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