Buying a New Motorbike and The Seller Wants a 1k Deposit. How Do I Protect Myself from a Potential Scam?

de_st1jlinator on 16/07/2022 - 18:35

Hi OzBargainers, I've found a motorbike I'd like to buy on Facebook and went down for a test ride. They seem like a nice family with a little bub. We've negotiated the price and they now want $1000 for a deposit and to sort out the RWC. They've given me their bank details for a deposit but I'm uncomfortable just sending that across. I want to send them just $150 to sort the RWC, but even sending $150 via bank transfer makes me uneasy.

How have you handled a similar situation when buying a bike or car?

Automotive

Comments

          • Daz91 on 19/07/2022 - 09:32

            @OzBrogains: Yeah sorry he’s right. I’ve sold 10+ cars and every single one I asked for at least a $1k deposit.

        • Harold Halfprice on 18/07/2022 - 23:10

          100%, couldn't agree more. I've bought and sold several cars and bikes, and have several mates who flip the occasional car on the side.

          People here saying they shouldn't give more than $50-100 or even no deposit and anyone asking for anything more are scammers are completely delusional. That's not how the private car market works, let alone for bikes.

      • dwarves on 18/07/2022 - 17:57

        Uhhhhhhhhhhhh you sue him. You’ve never heard of Small Claims? VCAT / NCAT / QCAT / etc?

        • OzBrogains on 18/07/2022 - 20:54
          -4

          Lol derp derp derp small claims derp derp derp

  • chillwok on 17/07/2022 - 17:41

    bought a car last year. took 2 months to come to a deal. guy did rwc on the day. paid him cash on pick up. win win for both.
    if he really wants to sell it he'll do it on your terms. if you're desperate, say bye bye to your 1k.

  • TChalla on 17/07/2022 - 17:51

    Nope.

  • Brick Tamland on 17/07/2022 - 18:14

    $1000 is too much.

    My last sale I was uncomfortable taking any deposit but the guy insisted so I took $500. I wouldn’t give more than $500 but $200 is probably more reasonable as it will cover the cost of the RWC.

  • newjerseydamo on 17/07/2022 - 18:29
    +1

    I usually ask for $200-500 as a deposit - covers RWC since I only get it once I have a serious buyer and they're time limited so less risk that way.
    I know my vehicles will usually pass (unless I get tripped up on something trivial) so it's never an issue.
    This way I know the buyer is serious about buying the bike, and I can organise the RWC and sale of the bike ASAP.

    I think anything above that amount as a deposit is a bit much and would negotiate the deposit amount down.
    People saying no deposit until sale is a bit much - what happens if the seller gets the RWC and then the buyer backs out and doesn't sell the vehicle? They're out of pocket for the RWC.
    And those saying if you can't sell something in this market - well motorcycles are niche, sub-categories of motorcycles are a niche of a niche. They're not as easy to sell as you might think.

    I do write up sale contracts when taking a deposit with license and personal details of both parties - yes I realise they're not a proper contract but they have enough information to take them to VCAT/etc. if I need to.

  • PoKGuy on 17/07/2022 - 18:52
    +3

    A few hundred dollars (up to $500) is reasonable as a deposit.

    It shows you are serious about purchasing the bike.

    $1000 does seem a bit much IMO.
    As reference, I paid $1k deposit for a new car ($50k).

  • Tleyx on 17/07/2022 - 19:17
    +1

    $250 is a fair deposit. That's covers the rec so he is slightly better off than now if you flake. He has a rwc bike now which is less hassle to sell

  • ChatCPT on 17/07/2022 - 19:22

    Plenty of bikes for sales

  • kaleidoscope on 17/07/2022 - 19:29

    Afaik it's standard practice to ask for rwc from a serious buyer and put it in writing with price and conditions negotiated. If you are confident of the bike and it's condition, negotiate just enough amount for the rwc and go from there. $1k seems bit too high.
    Given rwcs have short expiry it's reasonable for seller to take a deposit from buyer on that.

  • lhou021 on 17/07/2022 - 19:54

    I think it is fair for the seller to ask for a small amount $ to cover rwc, the seller don't want to pay it out of pocket as well, in case the buyer changes their mind
    but 1000 sounds too much, $50 - $100 is like the norm?
    the last time I paid $500 - $1000 deposit was for a new car
    get a quote or just find out the rwc cost, and just pay rwc as deposit

  • JuryWheel on 17/07/2022 - 19:59

    As others have said, a smaller amount is fine and just write up a contract with details for both the buyer and seller and both sign. Easy.

  • AryaTheExplorer on 17/07/2022 - 22:05
    -3

    1k is definitely too much for a bike but from the perspective of a seller, there's no way I'm accepting a deposit of 100 or 200 if the buyer wants a rwc. At least the deposit should account for the cost of rwc plus a day's wage for it to be worthwhile.

    • Tleyx on 18/07/2022 - 09:59

      That's more than a $1k though

      Why a days wages when the rwc comes to you? And even if it didn't it's like two hours at most

      • AryaTheExplorer on 18/07/2022 - 10:18

        lol how much do you make in a day? Say rwc is 250, add another 800 per day for deposit to be more than 1000, so you make more than 385000 per year after tax?

        I'm talking about how much deposit I would expect when I am the seller.

        I make about 230 per day, so say 500 total for deposit. Given I'll need to ask for leave from work, so if the buyer backs out, I'm at least covered for my time and the rwc. I've sold a few cars myself, deposits has never been an issue for any buyers. And I'm definitely not selling to anyone who doesn't want to a deposit for 500 if rwc is included in the sale.

        • Tleyx on 18/07/2022 - 10:50
          -1

          I don't work 365 days a year. I do.make over $800 a day, that's pretty normal on most projects. Though…I didn't realise you meant after tax

  • fleetfeather on 18/07/2022 - 00:30

    Okay, I guess I'm going against the grain here

    I would ask for a sizeable refundable deposit specifically prior to test ride if that is the buyers intent, at least to cover my insurance excess if you decide to be a clown and highside a bike that you hadn't yet committed to buying, or worse still ride off into the sunset with it.

    Id also want you to hand over your licence prior to test ride so that I can take a photo of each side of it, too. For similar reasons to the above.

    The RWC cost is a bit "meh"… I'd just go get the RWC done prior to any sale anyway - why hold off on something that's going to need to be done prior to test rides anyway? If it's a quality bike and Ive set a fair price, it's unlikely my RWC will expire prior to sale

  • hasher22 on 18/07/2022 - 00:33

    I'll add to the, just cover the RWC, if the seller flakes, you only lost a small amount for a bike you really want.

    It's a gamble.

    Or you tell him/her to get the RWC out of their own pocket, then once you have the details, you pay the agreed amount PLUS the RWC in person in cash. I think that might be fair. But in this scenario you may flake.

    But 1k is too much.

  • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2022 - 07:17

    1. Have the total withdrawn ready to pay cash. Interest rates aren't worth keeping it in the bank compared to the benefit of being able to pay NOW.

    2. Take him to your bank, so he can see them fill out a bank cheque in his name, which you hand straight to him, which you both then go to his bank and they deposit in his account or give him cash.

  • velcrochicken on 18/07/2022 - 08:09
    -1

    Its not really unusual. Buying a used vehicle unfortunately relies on trust from both parties.

    I've got a rwc for someone before without getting a deposit they pulled out after I paid $800 getting things fixed for the rwc and I had no deposit.
    Now I ask for a deposit.

    Maybe offer $300 and ask for a photo of some form of ID.

  • Topdog on 18/07/2022 - 09:10
    +2

    why are you paying for the rwc, is that not on the seller?.. Leaving a deposit is not unheard of though and usually to stop it from being sold to someone else, normally write a contract up, however still open to scamming

  • CocaKoala on 18/07/2022 - 09:28
    +4

    RWC is for the seller to arrange and not your problem. Why do you want to pay for that?!

    You cannot be serious about considering transferring money into someone's account before actually buying the item. I'd find another bike if this guy is unreasonable and asked for money beforehand.

  • kalithreaver on 18/07/2022 - 09:54
    +2

    RWC is their responsibility and now way would i pay a deposit to a personal sale.

  • SnakeCasablanca on 18/07/2022 - 09:58

    As everyone else here says… $1k is probably too much.

    But I also feel that maybe $300 would be fine. Cover the roadworthy and a little bit more to show you're serious.

    I bought a bike and put a $600 deposit and got a signed receipt and pictures of this drivers license.

    Realistically there are easier low risk ways to scam people than invite them to your house and show you where they live… If they were scamming you that opens up a fair bit of risk on their part as well.

    • Logical on 18/07/2022 - 22:02

      If the seller was serious they would have got the RWC already. Buyer then shows up with the cash and rides away into the sunset on the new wheels.

      • SnakeCasablanca on 19/07/2022 - 09:19

        In a perfect world. Except that you know that roadworthy's lapse. And they are a hassle to organise and cost money. So in the real world it doesn't happen like that all the time.

  • IdBuyThat4aDollar on 18/07/2022 - 11:19
    +2

    As a seller I would want some sort of deposit to show you're serious. If you change your mind about the sale, and I just got the RWC on the basis you were going ahead with the purchase, the RWC is only valid for 30 days (at least in VIC) so it would be a major inconvenience for the seller.

    Max I'd ask for though is $500

  • Skramit on 18/07/2022 - 13:01
    +2

    Make sure any deposit is on a written contract, it can be a mocked up word doc you type yourself but essnetially it just needs the basic:

    I, buyername, have paid deposit of $100, for bike with VIN: XXXX, with the remaining amount: $XXX to be paid on XXX date.

    Seller driver licence#: XXX
    Buyer driver licence#: XXX

    Name Buyer, Signed Buyer, Date
    Name Seller, Signed Seller, Date

    You get the idea.

    The $100 is a token of commitment, meaning if buyer does a runner with your deposit, well, lesson learned but it's unlikely, and $100 who cares really.

    • vinni9284 on 18/07/2022 - 17:12

      There are templates already available from Vicroads (regardless of state) All you do is type in the field and print. Cheers

  • apple2016 on 18/07/2022 - 13:38
    +1

    Well you would need to put a deposit only if you want the seller to hold the bike until you can arrange funding or transportation etc.
    Its not the other way. Just walk away and find another bike!.

  • rlf on 18/07/2022 - 14:32

    Escrow. Simple.

    Wait you've met them at their address? They probably won't scam you then.

  • rambutann on 18/07/2022 - 16:37
    +1

    Having purchased many bikes second hand, I think its reasonable for them to ask for a deposit to the amount of the RWC. Otherwise they are out of pocket if you bail. Beyond that is unnecessary.

    I just don't think the seller has thought it all through properly, they have just thrown the figure out there thinking its acceptable without thinking about it from the buyers perspective.

    I truly think everyone is overthinking this.

    Explain to them that you'll pay the cost of the roadworthy, and the rest on pickup. If they don't agree to that then walk away.

    • sauce2k on 18/07/2022 - 20:28
      +1

      what is this reasonable deposit you are referring to? Did you pay $1k deposit lol

      • rambutann on 19/07/2022 - 09:26
        +1

        'I think its reasonable for them to ask for a deposit to the amount of the RWC'.

    • Logical on 18/07/2022 - 22:06

      wait, what? Buyer pays for RWC? and then what, the buyer pays for all the fixes if it fails the RWC? No, no, no.

      A serious seller has the RWC ready to go.

      • rambutann on 19/07/2022 - 09:29
        +1

        I'm not saying that the buyer pays for the RWC - the buyer pays a deposit to the amount of the RWC (which is taken off the final agreed figure) - this deposit is made so that the seller is not out of pocket should the buyer bail on the transaction.

        If it fails the RWC then that's on the seller to get it fixed.

        In Melbourne specifically, nobody has the RWC ready to go, because it is void after a period of time (I believe 30 days).
        So if they have it ready to go and they don't sell it then they have to pay for a new RWC.

  • dwarves on 18/07/2022 - 17:54
    +7

    Amazing how many here are squealing about paying even a single dollar as a deposit.

    How do you people ever actually buy anything of value privately?

    I’ve bought more cars than I’ve had hot dinners, paid a deposit on every single one, and I’ve never been screwed.

    OP, if you can complete the transaction in one go and in the immediate term, have at it. If you can’t, well your choices are:
    1. walk away
    2. pay the guy something small, get a copy of his driver’s licence and a receipt so you have a paper trail and some security, and trust he isn’t a crook. Newsflash to most everyone here, the vast majority of people aren’t actually crooks. Are you all projecting or what??
    3. use an escrow service. There are many, eg escrow.com

    • WhatWouldBiggieDo on 19/07/2022 - 15:53
      +2

      Agree. Ozbargain is full of chicken littles who think every member of society is out to steal their cash.

  • sauce2k on 18/07/2022 - 20:26
    -1

    $1k deposit lol it's 100% scam

    • BlueberryOrangeJuice on 18/07/2022 - 22:18
      +1

      What about it is 100% a scam?

      • Herbse on 19/07/2022 - 09:12
        -1

        Seller should be paying the buyer to secure the purchase. If not, pull out immediately.

        • dwarves on 19/07/2022 - 16:08
          +1

          This is fantastic trolling, or fantastic stupidity. I’m not sure which.

  • BlueberryOrangeJuice on 18/07/2022 - 22:17
    +2

    Doesn’t this have a scale of relativity? How much is the bike? If it’s a 30K Ducati then yeah sure 1k seems fine. If it’s an old Honda for 5k I’d think $3-500 would do it.

    If the seller takes time off work (let’s assume has to take annual leave) that’s time and money gone, and that’s before the RWC fees. So if the buyer hasn’t given a deposit and then flakes they seller can be out a significant amount for the day.

    :)

  • jaimex2 on 19/07/2022 - 00:11
    +1

    It's pretty standard. The bike is over $10k I'm assuming?

    All cars that I've sold through Facebook were sold this way. It holds you to the sale while RWC is done, otherwise you can pull out and leave them with a RWC that will expire in a few days.

    If you want alternatives just buy it without the RWC or ask if you can take it to a mechanic for inspection at your own cost.

  • UFO on 19/07/2022 - 00:20
    +3

    "Hi. Listen, I really love the bike and I'm genuinely interested in purchasing it… but I'm not prepared to give you $1,000 upfront, I'm sorry. I'm prepared to give you $100 deposit to show you I AM genuinely interested, but that's as much as I'm prepared to pay. I can arrange a bank cheque in your name for the agreed amount on day of transfer. Please let me know if you'd still like to proceed with the sale. No hard feelings if you aren't happy with the above. Thanks for your time regardless of your decision".

    And that's it…. put it all in his court. Politely.

  • Herbse on 19/07/2022 - 09:07
    +6

    but even sending $150 via bank transfer makes me uneasy.

    Seems odd that someone this adverse to taking "risks" is buying a motorbike

  • BigBirdy on 19/07/2022 - 09:21
    +1

    It's a seller's market. As a seller, I wouldn't bother dealing with someone not prepared to backup their agreement to buy without a reasonable deposit. How much is reasonable … enough that I feel it unlikely they'll stuff me around, go elsewhere or have second thoughts about proceeding. A RWC could easily cost a few hundred if bike needs tyres, a bearing or whatever. $50 deposit? go away.

    • OzBrogains on 19/07/2022 - 10:57

      Logic does not make sense. If it truly was a sellers market then incurring the cost of an RWC and expenses would only make the bike more attractive and this will be reflected in a higher price.

      It’s like saying you’re trying to sell a house with mould everywhere and you refuse to fix it before selling as you don’t want to pay a plasterer/painter.

      • BigBirdy on 19/07/2022 - 13:48

        RWC is time limited. Not all buyers want a RWC (eg dealers). No comparison to fixing mould in a house.

        • OzBrogains on 19/07/2022 - 18:16

          So the seller’s only dealing with dealers and not the general public?
          You say it’s a seller’s market so the time limit factor is redundant. He should have buyers lining up in queue, right?

          Again, logic does not make sense.

    • Brick Tamland on 19/07/2022 - 11:17

      I dont think its a question of whether the buyer is genuine if they make a small or large deposit but a deposit just firms up the promise to follow through with a transaction. Even a deposit of $1 is arguably enough to show intention to proceed with a sale. Its more of a matter of trust and whether such a large deposit is even necessary.

      • BigBirdy on 19/07/2022 - 13:51

        Very small deposit, or none, and the buyer might keep looking for a better deal, or simply walk away on change of mind. A deposit places a cost on them doing this.

  • jerjergege on 19/07/2022 - 13:13
    -1

    How is it new if you're not buying from the dealership? Technically 2nd Hand.

  • Justin9mm on 19/07/2022 - 15:15
    +2

    Probably too late to comment but I've been buying and selling cars and a few bikes for over 20 years. Don't listen to the people saying don't even pay for the RWC, put yourself in his shoes, you say you want the bike, he goes down to get the RWC, pays the $150 and you change your mind or never respond because that's what people do. An RWC is only valid for 30 days and sometimes it can be hard to sell or take longer so then he loses the $150 and back to square one. There has to be trust on both sides. Give him the $150, preferably cash and get a written receipt (it can be just a piece of paper with full name, date and saying you have given deposit for whatever vehicle in this case the XSR700 with rego noted and get him to sign it) with a photo of his license details or at least sight his license and note license number. If he is genuine he will have no problem with doing that. But I would not being paying $1000 deposit, that is bullshit. Covering the RWC should be enough. He got $150 out of you, I doubt most buyers would pay $150 and then just run away or change their mind.

  • newjerseydamo on 19/07/2022 - 15:32
    -1

    People saying the buyer shouldn't pay for the RWC… You're not very smart.

    The deposit comes off the total sale price of the vehicle.

    If you agree to sell it for $10k, the buyer leaves a deposit of $500, that leaves $9,500 remaining.

    You pay for the RWC - $200.
    The buyer pays the remaining amount for the bike, $9,500.

    All up you've still only received the sale price, and spent $200, so net sale to the seller at the end of the day is $9,800.

    People really have no idea how maths or things work.

  • JacksonK on 19/07/2022 - 16:26

    I put a $500 deposit down on a car that cost $35k. He asked for $1k but told him he was dreaming. Only go with what you’re comfortable with and one proportionate to the amount of the bike.

  • RocketSwitch on 19/07/2022 - 16:47
    +1

    Tell them to get stuffed the losers.

  • Twodogs on 19/07/2022 - 17:12
    +1

    You test road a bike that wasnt roadworthy ? Or is the bike currently registered ? i dont understand why people think its ok for you to pay for the roadworthy , there maybe something wrong that didnt show up in your test drive What if you pay for the road worthy and it fails ? what if it has a VIV ?….. your loss . Dont risk it.

    • Brick Tamland on 19/07/2022 - 17:52

      You aren't required to have a roadworthy to drive the vehicle.

    • newjerseydamo on 20/07/2022 - 06:31

      The buyer isn't paying for the Rwc.

      • Twodogs on 21/07/2022 - 12:09

        I assumed they did as he says " We've negotiated the price and they now want $1000 for a deposit and to sort out the RWC ".

        • newjerseydamo on 21/07/2022 - 12:29

          That's not how math works.

          The deposit comes off the total sale price of the vehicle.

          If you agree to sell it for $10k, the buyer leaves a deposit of $500, that leaves $9,500 remaining.

          The seller pays for the RWC - $200.
          The buyer pays the remaining amount for the bike, $9,500.

          All up the seller still only received the sale price of $10,000, and spent $200, so net sale to the seller at the end of the day is $9,800.

          The RWC isn't out of the buyer's pocket, it still comes out of the seller's pocket.

          • Twodogs on 21/07/2022 - 12:50

            @newjerseydamo: We must be reading it differently because i never mentioned math or that the seller wasnt paying for they roadworthy , as the OP wrote " We've negotiated the price and they now want $1000 for a deposit and to sort out the RWC " and to sort out the roadworthy.

            • newjerseydamo on 21/07/2022 - 13:54

              @Twodogs: And you're clearly missing the point of it all and not reading correctly, because I address exactly that.

  • conza on 19/07/2022 - 20:46

    Ah jesus christ.

    Just get a written contract of sale for the product where you both sign and give him between $100-$250, you can take him to small claims court if he renegs on the contract.

    It's normal to put 'some' sort of deposit down, if the motocycle was, $20k, sure $1k, but if it's, $3k? Yeah $50/$100/RWC cost.

  • Herbse on 19/07/2022 - 22:46
    -1

    I had to put a $2k deposit down for my new car. I should have consulted with ozbargain first and taken my business elsewhere.

    • zonra on 19/07/2022 - 23:06

      Did you buy your new car from a licensed dealer or off Joe on Facebook?

  • ymmf on 14/11/2022 - 18:09

    Wish I had read this. Fell victim to a Gumtree scam on a car sale. Alledged seller was able to produce photo of driver licences, rego certificate and videos of the actual vehicle. PPSR check was OK. Put a deposit via BSB transfer and then disappeared. Somehow I wasn't thinking that day - should have been more vigilent.

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