Will we ever manufacture anything?

virhlpool on 10/08/2022 - 15:39
Last edited 11/08/2022 - 05:04

During the pandemic time, it felt like most countries had learnt a hard lesson to start focusing on manufacturing sector again if they want to avoid dependence on import, or at least diversify their sourcing from multiple countries.

Not that supply chain crisis is anywhere close to resolved yet either, so I was wondering if Australia has taken any initiatives at all in this area. I am sure think tanks and strategic institutions of the country would have given it fair importance keeping the future of the country and its economy in mind. Keen to hear people's thoughts and knowledge on this subject.

PS: I know people will argue that our cost of labour is very high but countries such as Germany, Switzerland, France, Japan and Italy still do significant amounts of manufacturing. High value goods (or rather high margin goods) could be a possible answer to that issue.

General Discussion

Comments

  • Gervais fanboy on 10/08/2022 - 15:43
    +18

    Well, apparently the climate change crisis exponentially accelerates if we produce our own goods..
    And soo quite wisely we outsource that whole ordeal.
    Out of Sight Out Of Mind

    • ageotas on 11/08/2022 - 10:35
      +3

      Mate what the hell are you on about. Local manufacturing would DECREASE our contribution to the climate crisis, not only because we have marginally better EPA laws than places like China, but because we would also be cutting down on multiple legs of shipping.

      • Gervais fanboy on 11/08/2022 - 10:58
        +1

        Yeah dude, I know. And I 100% agree.
        I was just being ironical about the whole thing.
        13 other people got it, no problem. Only a select few that needed to dislike something they thought sounds a bit too odd for their comprehension.

    • HeWhoKnows on 11/08/2022 - 17:53
      +4

      Yep
      Thumbs up for climate change action
      Lets produce nothing here at all
      Not even dig up minerals, grow plants nor breed animals
      Instead lets shift everything to China where they care not and claim they are a developing country (not) and pretent we have resolved the Climate change matters

  • Nugs on 10/08/2022 - 15:48
    +8

    When our labour costs become comparable to China etc
    .

    • jv on 10/08/2022 - 16:17
      -3

      When our labour costs become comparable to China

      Aren't Labor costs with Albo higher though?

  • SF3 on 10/08/2022 - 15:51

    People making?, You should have one for the father, one for the mother and one for the country. - lol

  • [Deactivated] on 10/08/2022 - 16:06
    +17

    You know the great thing about outsourcing manual labour overseas? You can turn a blind eye to human rights abuses there.

    Then you can announce policies in your home country such as a high minimum wage, and minimum safety standards. Doesn't your society look high and mighty! You pay your workers well. You have great safety standards.

    You just have to close your eyes to how people abroad are treated in order to maintain your great lifestyle locally.

    How much are you willing to pay for your goods? Goods manufactured locally where high minimum wage and minimum safety standards apply? I suspect you're not willing to pony up the cash.

    The truth is we are dirty, dirty nations relying on poor treatment of people abroad. And that won't change, we'll just look for slightly more expensive (but still cheap) people to exploit abroad before we bring manufacturing onshore.

    • virhlpool on 11/08/2022 - 05:02

      When one says goods, cheap stuff comes to mind. Australia doesn't need to make toothbrushes, tissues, hairpins, plastic boxes, etc. They can make jewelry, perfumes, luxury clothing, etc. I am sure there are things they can make at high cost and still manage to make money. Japan does. EU does.

  • spackbace on 10/08/2022 - 16:22
    +3

    Unions made labour costs too high, so the companies just said fk this and chose to produce overseas, or just import what was already being made overseas

    • Pawn Stars on 10/08/2022 - 16:38
      +4

      What a silly comment.

      So you would rather be a low wage country that makes shoes and t-shirts and get paid barely enough to feed yourself?

      Australia manufacturing is alive and thriving. We manufacture products that require technical skills rather than cheap exploitative labour

      • askbargain on 10/08/2022 - 16:40

        We manufacture products that require technical skills

        Like?

        • Pawn Stars on 10/08/2022 - 16:47
          +2

          Look up Carbon revolution, Austal & medical device companies as starters.

      • spackbace on 10/08/2022 - 16:41
        +7

        So you would rather

        I didn't say what I'd rather, I stated facts

        Or do you think there were other reasons we lost, for example, local vehicle manufacturing? Coz guess what, labour costs were the reason it didn't make sense to keep making cars here

        • Pawn Stars on 10/08/2022 - 16:53
          +2

          Local car manufacturing was propped up by successive governments, as it is world wide.

          Manufacturers moved to a one platform model with manufacturing hubs in regions.

          The falcon and Commodore were dead regardless if the government kept pumping money into Ford and Holden

          You know all this anyway.

          • spackbace on 10/08/2022 - 16:55
            +2

            @Pawn Stars:

            The falcon and Commodore were dead regardless if the government kept pumping money into Ford and Holden

            Except the Camry lives on, and was cheaper to just get the imported version that to continue local production.

            Though you know that.

            https://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-other-countries-sub…

            But it’s important to note that the unit cost of Australian-made models is four times that of Asia and twice that of Europe, according to Ford Australia’s comparisons with its international manufacturing costs.

            Consequently, the lack of scale, the costs of importing key components and labour costs result in higher unit costs for taxpayers compared with more heavily-subsidised, but more efficient producers, such as Germany.

      • Gervais fanboy on 10/08/2022 - 16:44
        -3

        I know the idea of having a minimum wage sounds quite satisfying but in the long run it has disastrous effects…
        I only changed my mind on this subject after hearing what Thomas Sowell had to say on this matter. You should look him up.

        • Pawn Stars on 10/08/2022 - 16:50
          -3

          The idea of minimum wage is critical. Australians who have mortgages for example need to keep their earning capacity growing.

          What do you think would happen to our economy if wages were cut so we can make shoes?

          I don't blame you, I blame our education system

          • Gervais fanboy on 10/08/2022 - 17:23
            +2

            @Pawn Stars:

            Australians who have mortgages for example need to keep their earning capacity growing.

            You do know that your ‘earning capacity’ is being overtaken by inflation, year in year out. Most Aussies can’t afford to buy house anymore.

            What do you think would happen to our economy if wages were cut

            You are predicting that outcome, I never said that.
            Free market always sorts itself out. Plus there wouldn’t be as many as employees as we do now as a greater proportion of the population would be involved in owning small businesses.
            Every successful economy is represented by how well its small businesses are doing and not the large MNC’s colluding and evading taxes.

            I don't blame you, I blame our education system

            Well I am not a product of ‘your’ education system. I was brought up in a third world country, where we were taught not to dwell on entitlements and rather fight for your worth.
            Btw ‘your’ education system talks and preaches Socialism… best of luck owning anything under such a regime, let alone having the freedom like we do here to challenge it.

            • greatlamp on 16/08/2022 - 07:44

              @Gervais fanboy:

              Free market always sorts itself out.

              Technically correct but incorrect in practice. The timescale required can be longer than your working life.

              The free market settles based upon the negotiating power of the buyer and seller.

              Workers inherently have less power than their employer.

              The free market theory is now used to justify dismantling laws that protect worker rights.

              The union movements is undersubscribed following the success of previous generations in creating worker rights. Yes - once worker rights are completely gone the free market will encourage the recreation of the union movement, in the meantime an entire generation of workers is going to be squeezed out of the middle class. Poverty is intergenerational, and once a handful of individuals control the majority of wealth it isn't easy to reverse.

              In the age of automation workers negotiating power will be further squeezed, once worker rights are lost their return will be very difficult.

              I don't want my generation to return to 1900's conditions, so when I hear people promoting the free market, I hear "corporate propaganda has made people ignore their own self interest". So yes, we need a minimum wage, the benefits to the economy of removing the minimum wage do not outweigh the damage it will do to society

        • AustriaBargain on 10/08/2022 - 17:13
          +1

          Bullshit. We shouldn't want jobs here that pay half of our current minimum wage. If we don't have enough high paying jobs here then we should invent them. We could be exporting films, TV shows, and video games if we really wanted, employing many thousands of people. It's not like we don't have the drive or talent, we produced Wiggles and Bluey which are worth a fortune worldwide. Plus that's the kind of thing that can't be offshored after it becomes popular, unlike fashion. Sure you can make a company that produced expensive boots in Australia, but once it is popular worldwide the temptation to offshore it to make even more money will be too hard to resist for the stakeholders. But you can hardly offshore the production of Bluey.

          • CrowReally on 10/08/2022 - 17:39
            +1

            @AustriaBargain: Don't stress yourself too heavily on this. Any argument that reaches for the economics 101 vagueness of "Free market always sorts itself out" isn't road tested for the specifics of reality. ("Slavery" in an example of something the free market can create to 'sort out' the problem of wages being too high, for instance).

            • Gervais fanboy on 10/08/2022 - 18:01
              +1

              @CrowReally:

              Slavery" in an example of something the free market can create to 'sort out' the problem of wages

              Come on, are you actually gonna go there
              Is not possible for us to have this argument in good faith ?

              You are equating a social evil with basic economics.

              Anyways, I looked these up online. I think these extracts do make sense on this minimum wage argument…

              https://www.neusenews.com/index/2020/8/31/letter-to-the-edit….

              https://ichthyoid.writeas.com/minimum-wage-laws-basic-econom…

              • CrowReally on 11/08/2022 - 09:03
                -2

                @Gervais fanboy: "You are equating a social evil with basic economics."

                No, I am highlighting a naive "economics first, and then second, third and all the other considerations while we are at it" view is basically useless because it doesn't come anywhere near addressing the underlying issue, which will contain actual societal problems.

                "But what about all these other issues?"
                "Oh, the free market will solve that".

                If I can slide "slavery" as a example that fits into (and agrees with) your proposed wages model, then your proposed wages model is in need of some further work. A lot of further work.

                And re: 'good faith' narrative, if you to want engagement with what you actually proposed, the rest of your argument being, "Plus there wouldn’t be as many as employees as we do now as a greater proportion of the population would be involved in owning small businesses", well:

                Go look up some stats on how well small business owners are paid, and while you're at it, how many small businesses last three years, and then while you're at that, how many of those are profitable. More people fail (and in addition, most of them lose money overall while doing so) than those who 'succeed' (and the prize for 'winning' as a small business and surviving is making less than they would as an employee).

                Trying to funnel even more people into that saturated business model in place of "an increased stable base rate of pay, available for everyone" is a terrible idea. It would be less harmful to tell people to buy lottery tickets or hope to find a suitcase full of money.

          • Gervais fanboy on 10/08/2022 - 17:39
            +1

            @AustriaBargain:

            Bullshit. We shouldn't want jobs here that pay half of our current minimum wage.

            Chill, I never said or even suggested that.
            I just made a point against the state mandate minimum wage regulation.

            Also if you think about it on a macro level, more wages don’t always mean more wealth. By Australia not producing almost 2/3 of the products that it imports for consumption, we are now also paying more for everything than what it would have ideally cost to make stuff over here.
            Plus, with a higher mandated wage, businesses are forced to increase the prices of their products.
            So that extra money paid gets pushed back to us anyways.

            Everyone just thinks that an increased wage means that its taking money out of the rich man’s pocket so no harm done.
            But that’s not how it works,

            What no one also talks about are the unethical practises behind all those Chinese goods that we depend on…

        • ozbjunkie on 11/08/2022 - 20:19
          -1

          Sorry I can't look him up because I live in a country with no minimum wage laws and I don't have time to read, there's no money for food to eat, dig?

          • Gervais fanboy on 11/08/2022 - 23:52

            @ozbjunkie:

            I don't have time to read, there's no money for food to eat, dig?

            So you don’t have food or money because you don’t have a job ???
            But if you don’t have a job, then surely you have got endless time and clearly you have got the internet. So…..

            Btw reading your comment, I doubt you understand what poverty actually looks like.
            Dm me, I can school you on that.
            I used to be that poor kid from that poor country with no money and bare minimum food.

            Btw, the people here in this thread are smart grown up adults. And I bet my bottom dollar that they don’t work a minimum wage job and make way more than the minimum wage.
            So explain to me how, they are earning a decent living without the aid of minimum wage regulation.
            It’s always the downtrodden locally born residents that suffer most from it, as they now find themselves competing with labour that’s relatively more skilled and educated than them, then there’s the immigrant class like myself that includes doctors, engineers etc who for various reasons also start their careers in this country by working the minimum wage jobs.

      • virhlpool on 10/08/2022 - 18:56

        You don't need to make tshirts and shoes. You can make what Switzerland, Germany, France and Italy make. High value goods.

        • p1 ama on 12/08/2022 - 00:47

          You don't need to make tshirts and shoes. You can make what Switzerland, Germany, France and Italy make. High value goods.

          What exactly does Switzerland, Germany, France and Italy make that you would like to see Australia make?

          • virhlpool on 12/08/2022 - 00:57

            @p1 ama: Collective answer for these four countries in particular: Machinery, watches, precision instruments, automotive and electrical goods, luxury goods, leather goods, footwear, perfumes, high end fashion/ textiles, chocolates (numerous brands), aircrafts and their parts, electronics

            • p1 ama on 12/08/2022 - 12:12
              +2

              @virhlpool:

              Machinery

              What machinery specifically? We produce a lot of machinery here.

              watches

              Europe practically is a tiny player in the watch space.

              https://www.statista.com/statistics/288265/leading-watch-exp…

              Of 2021 supply, Switzerland only made 15.7m watches, i.e. ~3.5% of what China makes. Even if Australia were to enter the watch market and produce the same amount as Switzerland, it would have negligible impact on our economy.

              For reference, the entire watch industry is worth around $60Bn USD (so around $100Bn AUD), we make around $40Bn per annum on exporting university education. But yes, we should totally be building capabilities to manufacture watches…

              precision instruments

              What precision instruments exactly are made in Europe that are not made here?

              automotive

              We tried cars, how did that go?

              electrical goods

              Again, Europe is not a huge producer of electrical goods:

              https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/ALL/yea…

              Volume of electrical goods coming out of the entirety of Europe is only a little above 10% by value, and less than 10% by quantity of China's output. China has a > 50% share on the production of electrical goods.

              luxury goods

              What luxury goods?

              leather goods

              Again, do your research before talking.

              https://www.statista.com/statistics/768344/value-leather-exp…

              Who is the second largest producer of leather in the world? Ahhhh, Australia.

              Conclusion - you haven't done any research, do not really know the industries you're talking about and are just recycling old talking points.

              • greatlamp on 16/08/2022 - 08:03

                @p1 ama: Australia makes leather as a raw material for other manufacturing. It's exported and finished into high value luxury goods overseas.

                China makes many watches, Switzerland makes watches, they aren't the same value watches.

                The argument is 'Australia should concentrate on moving up the value chain and move into high value manufacturing'

                Your stats are not addressing the point, in fact it feels like you are arguing in bad faith as noone would normally compare Switzerland and Chinese watches as alternatives, or German and Chinese electronics. If Australia took 1% more of these global markets, you are painting it as a failure, rather than a huge boon for us.

    • AustriaBargain on 10/08/2022 - 17:09
      +3

      Even if Australia never had a single union, we'd still have produced stuff overseas. It's just plain cheaper, and has been cheaper for everyone, which naturally means a concentration of expertise overseas as well, which makes it even more relatively expensive to make things locally. If 9 in 10 of the worlds experts in assembly line development in China then that's going to make it harder to set up shop in Australia. If the rest of the world is making things in China then there's not much we can do about the resulting concentration of skills and parts being in China.

      • spackbace on 10/08/2022 - 17:13

        Yup, economies of scale

        We're a small cog

    • virhlpool on 11/08/2022 - 05:03
      +2

      I wonder if labour cost is low in Japan and Germany.

      • spc12go on 11/08/2022 - 14:43

        Labour cost is actually low in Japan. Much lower than Australia. The so called salary men received a good wage. The casual non permanent blue collar works pays around 1000yen per hour.

  • jzx100 on 10/08/2022 - 16:25
    +2

    Meth….. that's about it

  • pharkurnell on 10/08/2022 - 16:33
    +2

    Firstly you need buildings, and skills and cheap labour…. 3 from 3 we don't have.

    When i used to drive trucks, used to deliver and pickup 40ft containers of material from Bonds (Undies/singlets etc) in Kingsgrove and there was a queue to get in there… I'd guess that site was worth diamonds and probably developed into 5 billion sardine can sized units.

    • netjock on 10/08/2022 - 16:50
      -1

      probably developed into 5 billion sardine can sized units

      You can thank residential property speculation. Not only pushes out businesses but also up salaries. Invites overseas investors to buy in but also overseas institutions to lend to our banks to help speculation.

      You know what Forrest Gump says "stupid is, stupid does"

    • SF3 on 10/08/2022 - 17:52
      +1

      Firstly you need buildings

      I think that’s where it stopped, and manufactured the housing market. People seem to talk about buying one regularly here, What should I do, PPOR or Investment?

  • sien on 10/08/2022 - 16:50
    +2

    Gawd knows what is being manufactured, but Australian Manufacturing is worth 100Bn a year and employs 900K people.

    https://www.industry.gov.au/publications/australian-manufact…

    • Top G on 10/08/2022 - 17:13

      mainly for domestic industry and maybe export some to NZ lol

    • pharkurnell on 10/08/2022 - 18:22
      +1

      Gawd knows what is being manufactured,

      Fictional stories about figures….

    • FLICKIT on 10/08/2022 - 19:23
      +2

      "Manufacturing" seems to encompass mining, smelting, farming, and the likes, things that aren't really manufacturing in most people eyes, but it explains the figures you quote…
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_Australia

      Even with all the mining and such listed it's still a damn short list, lol

      • virhlpool on 11/08/2022 - 05:14
        +2

        Just digging stuff up and not adding any value to make it more expensive is not manufacturing in a good sense. i.e. selling raw iron ore vs high end steel. The latter is what the country should eye for, otherwise it's a missed opportunity.

        • blwnhr on 11/08/2022 - 18:52

          We likely can't compete on building cars or steel, but we are very good at making high value smaller items as well as medicines etc. that are exported all over the world.

  • CyberMurning on 10/08/2022 - 17:12

    we manuf bitcoins

    • Top G on 10/08/2022 - 17:13

      also NFTs

    • Switchblade88 on 10/08/2022 - 19:59

      30c/kWh says hi.

  • ihbh on 10/08/2022 - 17:26

    Manufacturing is capital intensive and the returns are low. Add our cost of labour and the returns are prohibitive. Don't forget that the average Chinese worker earns far less but works far longer per week (9 9 6).

    We don't have the economies of scale to be competitive in this. It doesn't make sense for private enterprises and we shouldn't waste taxpayer's money either.

    We should focus on our comparative advantage. Even China is starting to move away from manufacturing and being less competitive in some areas.

    • virhlpool on 11/08/2022 - 05:18

      I don't fully agree. Some of the most expensive drinking water bottle brands are from Europe. If they can make drinking water and make money, I am sure there's a lot we can make. We do make Bundaberg drinks so why stop there. It's just an example. If you look around you will see many high value and tech goods that are being made in countries with high cost of labour.

      • ihbh on 11/08/2022 - 07:16
        +1

        expensive drinking water bottle brands are from Europe

        Most of the "value add" of "manufacturing" drinking water is the marketing. Somehow Bondi Clear or Ayres Rock Rouge probably didn't cut it, even with Chinese buyers.

        • Chandler on 11/08/2022 - 09:34

          Most of the "value add" of "manufacturing" drinking water is the marketing.

          Yeah, this was my thoughts seeing this. Expensive drinking water bottle brands aren't making bank due to manufacturing, it's marketing their overpriced product.

          Some of the most expensive drinking water bottle brands are from Europe.

          And where are these expensive water bottle brands even bottled? Just because they're European brands doesn't mean any of it was made in Europe. And then where is the water from? And where are the bottles made? This last item is the only real "manufacturing" happening, and I'd be happy to bet they aren't getting made where virhlpool thinks they are.

  • apsilon on 10/08/2022 - 18:47
    +3

    I've worked for manufacturers in Australia for 20 years so we definitely make stuff here, probably more than a lot of people realise but I agree, we could do more, especially in tech manufacturing.

    • freefall101 on 10/08/2022 - 21:36
      +1

      Depends what you mean by "tech", anything involving a semiconductor we're far too late to get involved. Niche tech products is where we should be pushing and it's where we do well. Software houses, fabless chip companies, solar/hydrogen technology and research, but we'd still assemble the stuff in China or some other country.

      Even China is just an assembly country in many regards. They're a decade behind the Taiwanese and the yanks on building an actual CPU or RAM that is competitive.

  • Eatslikeacat on 10/08/2022 - 20:20
    -5

    Australia manufactures a lot of hot air. A small fish in a big pond telling big fish what to do.

    • ozbjunkie on 11/08/2022 - 20:23

      Where'd you get the "telling big fish what to do" from?

      What's bothering you homie?

  • p1 ama on 10/08/2022 - 20:57
    +1

    It depends on what you mean by "manufacturing" - the term "manufacturing" just means taking some inputs and adding either capital or labour to produce some output that is of higher value. Everything that is not a service is "manufacturing".

    We do a lot of manufacturing in Australia. The largest industry in Australia is mining, where we dig stuff out of the ground, refine it, use capital and labour to turn it into stuff that people overseas are willing to buy. Education exports are also a form of "manufacturing", we build universities (capital) and hire staff (labour) and produce output (education / degrees, whatever) that people overseas are willing to buy. Even certain financial services can be considered manufacturing. I know you are alluding to stuff coming out of a factory as "manufacturing", but there is no reason why this ought to be more important / central than any other stuff people are willing to purchase.

    I think your question is better phrased as what are our comparative advantages (i.e. what does Australia have that others don't have) and how we can exploit those comparative advantages. I'm not an expert, but I would guess that our comparative advantages are that we have lots of stuff in the ground that we can dig up, we have a reasonably well-educated workforce who can export a variety of professional services, and our comparative disadvantages are that we don't have a lot of labour (we're not particularly high in population), nor do we have an advantage in goods that require large scale (we don't have a terrible lot of capital here and we don't attract foreign investment).

    If your question is whether we will ever have manufacturing in the storied / old-school way that people reminicise (e.g. manufacturing cars, washing machines…etc.), then no, but then and again, neither will China, in 100 years, this will all be done by robots.

    • virhlpool on 11/08/2022 - 05:28
      -1

      I agree, service sectors or software industry can and should fill the void of manufacturing industry. However, some of the examples you gave don't convince me. e.g. Universities - you didn't make these for foreign students, nor they are the most attractive unis globally for foreign students. You had to make high quality unis for your local population anyway. Selling some of the seats to some foreign students is just a little byproduct.

      Similarly, digging stuff up and selling isn't a wise thing. Only when you add value or finish the product, you can charge the most premium and make more money. So whilst Australia has done well in mining, it misses out on a big opportunity there too.

      It doesn't matter if robots do manufacturing or humans do. As long as the goods are still made in the country, it adds value to the economy.

      • p1 ama on 11/08/2022 - 22:16

        However, some of the examples you gave don't convince me. e.g. Universities - you didn't make these for foreign students, nor they are the most attractive unis globally for foreign students. You had to make high quality unis for your local population anyway. Selling some of the seats to some foreign students is just a little byproduct.

        What you feel is attractive is irrelevant and I'm not trying to convince you of anything, the fact is that education is Australia's third largest export after coal and iron ore, and is worth over $40b p.a.

        Similarly, digging stuff up and selling isn't a wise thing. Only when you add value or finish the product, you can charge the most premium and make more money. So whilst Australia has done well in mining, it misses out on a big opportunity there too.

        Do you actually know what you are talking about? The value-add in mining is the actual process of digging it out of the ground. This requires exploration, engineering, large capital investments, machinery and technology, skilled workers…etc.

        It doesn't matter if robots do manufacturing or humans do. As long as the goods are still made in the country, it adds value to the economy.

        Not really - we should focus on making what we are best at making - this will be natural resources, education, professional services, factory manufacturing of specialised goods and services that require specialist engineering…etc.

        We do not have a comparative advantage in the manufacturing of certain goods. Trying to manufacture something where we do not have a comparative advantage, e.g. iPhones let's say, is actually value erosive, because it takes away capital and labour from doing things which are more productive. The value-additive action would be to specialise where we have comparative advantages and buy iPhones from whoever produces them with a comparative advantage.

        In other words, you have to take into account opportunity cost when you evaluate whether something "adds value".

      • moar bargains on 12/08/2022 - 11:37
        +2

        Selling some of the seats to some foreign students is just a little byproduct.

        Tell me you don't work in (or follow) the higher education sector, without telling me…

        >25% of Australian Universities revenue in 2019 was from international students, and had been growing at ~14% YoY for the 5 years prior. It's Australia's 4th most valuable export after iron ore, coal and natural gas. Hardly an afterthought.

        You're right that universities weren't built or developed for international students, but international students have become extremely important due to federal funding cuts to higher education and research.

        Fun fact: University income was decimated in 2020 through the loss of international students, but they were not eligible for JobKeeper. We can't develop high-value, premium products to export without investment in R&D and an educated workforce. But I guess bonuses for the Qantas board were deemed more important than the education of our society and research to improve it.

        • virhlpool on 12/08/2022 - 12:10

          Well.. Exporting education isn't bad at all but then we should focus on attracting the best talent in the world and produce the top-class research; not just letting anyone and everyone in as long as they can pay the fees. This is what I meant. USA has done very well in both of these areas - their universities attract the best talent globally with their highly stringent entry requirements and with the help of this talent and broad corporate support, they produce the world-class research in almost any area one can imagine.

  • spc12go on 10/08/2022 - 21:24
    -1

    Most of the manufacturing are now done in an assembly line via machine with almost no or minimal human interaction. It is hard to bring manufacturing back here as the supply chain logistic are next to none.

    Most of the big company have adopted the Toyota six sigma mindset with not much stock. They are all relying on just in time warehousing, hence to bring manufacturing back home, we will have to build the logistic supply chain that goes with it first. Or stop the Toyota just in time mentality. This just in time is still going on that’s why there’s supply constrain on a lot of things.

    • blwnhr on 11/08/2022 - 08:42
      +1

      This is almost totally factually incorrect.

  • cashless on 10/08/2022 - 21:55
    +6

    I work for an Australian manufacturing company split between SA and NSW. Total employee count 300+. Heavy duty engineering goods made from steel, forging etc. about 50% domestic supply, balance is exports.
    Don’t tell me (as everyone above is saying) that Australia can’t manufacture.
    I also deal with similar size AU companies that make plastics, rubbers, processing machinery & other engineering high end stuff.
    There is more to the industry than those redundant car makers

    • blwnhr on 11/08/2022 - 08:53
      +2

      100000%

      Just because we stopped making cars doesn't mean Australian manufacturing is dead. We make so much amazing stuff!

  • chami on 11/08/2022 - 08:23
    -1

    We can not compete.
    Our power costs are high by world standards and probably going to get worse.
    Malaysia power cost US5c/kWh, Australia cost US22.3c/kWh.
    Manufacturing is not the only problem, we can not even be a "clever" country, our main computer servers are in Missouri where power costs are 11c/kWh.

    ref: https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices

  • blwnhr on 11/08/2022 - 08:52
    +3

    Australia has a large manufacturing industry, you (and a lot of others here) just aren't aware or don't acknowledge it.

    There's more to manufacturing than cars. We make amazing medical devices, really sophisticated electronics, heavy equipment, aeroplane parts, lots of food and food-based products, appliances, medicines, boats, industry simulators, boots & shoes, underwater vehicles, radio communications, lightening protection, inflatable liferafts as used in passenger planes, hydro electric turbines, camera systems for film makers…as well as world-leading components exported for assembly into other equipment like hydraulics, heat shields. And that's just Tasmania.

    What would you like to see manufactured here that currently isn't?

    • LFO on 11/08/2022 - 13:48
      +1

      What would you like to see manufactured here that currently isn't?

      Something real?

      • blwnhr on 11/08/2022 - 18:46

        Such as?
        Are you saying the things I listed aren't real?

        • LFO on 12/08/2022 - 13:51

          They are soooooooo vague they become not-real … like that "underwater vehicles" … is it why we still (since 1980s?) cannot get the submarines right?

          "Real" for any industry is just very different to a niche, limited, government subsidized, university sponsored, local experiment.

          • blwnhr on 13/08/2022 - 08:01

            @LFO: Underwater vehicles, an established business, no government subsidies or sponsorships, exporting all over the world.

            https://www.sosub.com.au/

            Just because you don't know that something exists doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's a very flat-earth attitude. I've never been to France, but I'll never say the Eiffel Tower doesn't exist, just because I've never seen it.

            • LFO on 14/08/2022 - 14:24

              @blwnhr:

              I've never been to France

              There is subtle difference between stating France has an industry of Eiffel Towers or acknowledging there is only one, purely for display, built about 100 years ago.
              Yes it exist, and that is all. Monsieur Eiffel & Co. kept building bridges not towers.

              Having submersibles of some kind does not mean much more than that. So what.

              One unpleasant aspect of all this is when misplaced patriotism gets on the way and aggression and animosity rules the conversation.
              Don't take it personal.

    • virhlpool on 12/08/2022 - 00:59

      What would you like to see manufactured here that currently isn't?

      Machinery, watches, precision instruments, automotive and electrical goods, luxury goods, leather goods, footwear, perfumes, high end fashion/ textiles, chocolates, aircrafts, electronics

      I don't intend to say that we don't make any of these at all but our scale and exports are not anywhere near where they should be even if we do.

  • VictimEqualsProfit on 11/08/2022 - 10:11

    What do you mean?? We make houses and lattes by the millions.

  • k1llersloth on 11/08/2022 - 13:19

    my cpap machine says made in australia, so i guess theres that. but i have a feeling its the old trick (same as australia made stickers) where all the parts are made overseas but aslong as its assembled here they can put the made in australia sticker on it.

    • 2esc on 11/08/2022 - 17:03
      +1

      When I use to use a cpap machine i bought them from the US for around a third the price sold here. Masks I could get for quarter the price and that includes postage. Considering the cpap was invented here it's frustrating how Australia keeps finding ways to penalise itself.

  • LFO on 11/08/2022 - 13:47
    +1

    Keen to hear people's thoughts and knowledge on this subject.

    Perhaps we no-longer know how to produce, how to innovate.

    • blwnhr on 11/08/2022 - 18:48

      What a joke, we're leading the way in many sectors.

      • LFO on 12/08/2022 - 13:42

        What a joke, we're leading the way in many sectors.

        Leading as in suggesting what to do? Or actually doing it?

        What a wishful thinking. If that being the case why virtually anything new and hi-tech is made overseas?

  • 2esc on 11/08/2022 - 17:06

    We need rules and regulations but government seems to want to keep finding ways to add more redtape which many other countries don't have.

    • blwnhr on 11/08/2022 - 18:49

      This isn't an issue, things are cracking along fine. What red tape do you believe exists?

  • Jakobson on 11/08/2022 - 22:53
    +3

    The labour cost argument is an excuse.

    When corporations move manufacturing to china, they don’t pass on the savings onto the consumer, because they reap the benefits of making even MORE money.

    Sending the manufacturing back to the country of origin, should not then increase the price of the goods as they never passed on the savings in the first place - but they would in-fact do it anyway, because they want to keep their profit margin the same because they are greedy and don’t care about you

    The same reason they export all our gas and give nothing back, which is why we have a gas shortage. Are you awake yet?

    On a side note, ever wonder where new technology comes from that then gets manufactured? Tax payers that funded the research for military and secret service operations that create “new” breaks in technology.

    Once that generation of technology is time to retire, they spin it off into a private corporation with a made up startup story (rags to riches) and send the production overseas. The people get no return on investment . But if it was a losing project it won’t be privatised at all

    Socialise the losses and privatise the gains. Bit like how we also bail out private banks instead of making them pay for their greedy mistakes.

    Short answer - no manufacturing will never return back to us, unless our corrupt politicians change their hearts.

    Climate change is just the Trojan horse to rid us quicker of manufacturing and keep it at bay, without the unions getting in the way, and everyone feels all great about saving us from the world ending.

    It was THEM that shipped off our highly prized steel manufacturing industry in the first place.

    Take it away Mel
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Mna0oLUYoQ

  • xdigger on 18/08/2022 - 12:09
    +2

    No because the Australian economy doesn't prioritise that. Instead we pick the low-lying fruits of digging and selling dirt from the ground, with the environment as collateral damage.

    Smart individuals like PhDs in STEM fields, doctors, and unicorn entrepreneurs like Elon Musk are not heralded or invested in, and instead taxed highly leading to some of the best and brightest of young Aussies moving to lower tax countries like US/Singapore/HK and contributing to those relatively innovative economies.

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