Unpopular Opinion High Income Earners Pay too Much Tax

Trying2SaveABuck on 11/08/2022 - 12:48
Last edited 11/08/2022 - 13:17 by 1 other user

"3.6 per cent of Aussies account for more than 31 per cent of tax revenue.

The majority of tax revenue comes from those earning $90,001-$180,000 - which makes up 36.8 per cent of tax paid."

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/ato-reveals-how-much-tax-t…

According to the above source 2/3 of all tax collected come from 20% of the 'working' population. - that is an excessive amount of lifting from the top categorises and imho it is unfair but the media wont ever report it.

We need to change the system to tax 'wealth' and not 'earnings' no one should be paying more then 20-25 cents to a dollar of tax on money they earn to the ATO.

my unpopular opinion is higher income earners pay too much tax - change my mind?

Poll Options

  • 617
    High income earners pay too much tax (I agree)
  • 654
    I disagree with your opinion
Financial

Comments

    • satyaguru on 12/08/2022 - 17:58
      +1

      10% of the total tax revenue. There needs to be an incentive for people to go up the ladder. Not stay down.

      • monky on 12/08/2022 - 18:20

        There is no "up the ladder' for a lot of people in roles fundamental for first-world society.

        You become a garbage man and you die a garbage man.

        I also respect garbage men far more than Fatty Rinehart.

        • satyaguru on 12/08/2022 - 18:25

          What a defeatist attitude you have! Very possible for a garbage man to go up the ladder. Learn some books on the side, apply for opportunities, do an apprenticeship.

          • monky on 12/08/2022 - 18:58

            @satyaguru: The only books essential workers should be reading is Kapital.

          • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2022 - 22:39

            @satyaguru: It’s possible for an average person to marry a supermodel too. It just happens at a frequency that’s effectively 0.

            Sure, things are possible, but they’re a ton easier with the right connections usually established by fortune of birth.

            People aren’t becoming billionaires because they did an apprenticeship and read a book.

            • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 22:13
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: Regardless, it's still a defeatist attitude. Work your way up is what I'm saying. Most Aussies really are not aspirational like Americans. The reasoning for that is because they have a defeatist mental model. Start somewhere.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2022 - 22:35

        As you go up you earn more money and your disposable income skyrockets, people’s basic needs cost a certain amount, so someone earning $100,000 might have 5x the spending money as someone earning $80,000 even after tax. Once you have a savings buffer you can also negatively gear with less risk and more effectiveness, allowing you to invest in assets that convert your income from earned income to capital gains.

        Since capital gains have a 50% discount on assets held more than a year it’s extremely rare for people to pay the full marginal rates more than $200k unless they’re earning many millions. Someone earning income as capital gains on $300k+ of gross income might be paying much less average % tax than someone on $120k.

  • kiwimex on 12/08/2022 - 16:57
    +3

    There should be one tax rate for everyone. No one should be penalised for bettering themselves and their earnings.

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 12/08/2022 - 21:41
      +2

      this would be the fairest system imo

    • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2022 - 22:47

      No one is penalized though??? Aside from lower income earners who would be even more penalized by a flat tax rate. The whole point of a progressive tax system is to encourage people to earn more rather than rely on the state.

      Also, to keep the number of riots down. A non noticeable tax cut for the few at the top of the taxable income range (and remember this is at the top after shifting income to lower taxes capital gains / negative gearing etc), is probably the difference between grumbling and wheeling out the guillotine for much of the population.

      The flatter the tax system the worse most people are off financially and the more likely those remaining have to spend their tax savings on private security. I’ve been to these less equal countries, even with money they are not comfortable. Being able to walk down the street relatively safely is worth the extra tax.

      • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 22:04

        You got it completely backwards. Progressive tax rates discourage upward mobility. Many people don't want to earn beyond 180k because every dollar is taxed half.

        As for riots, we should be able to buy guns for home defense. That's the best defense against riots. Dare to circumvent the law, get shot on plain sight in self defense.

        There are no studies to correlate flat taxation for a lack of safety. Sorry that's opinionated.

  • duluxe2000 on 12/08/2022 - 17:01

    An alternative to a progressive income tax rate system is higher GST, which is much simpler tax and not easily avoidable :)

    • Randolph Duke on 12/08/2022 - 18:18
      +1

      Raising the GST, which is a regressive tax, impacts low income earners substantially more than medium & high income earners.

      • avoidfullprice on 12/08/2022 - 21:56

        Don't think GST is regressive. It is more of a tax on consumption vs income. We have to eat and live hence impacts on no or low income earners regardless.

        Higher income earner can spend more and pay more GST compare to other people.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2022 - 22:51

          The thing is, there’s a minimum you have to spend just to live, you don’t need to spend above that no matter how much you earn, and companies generally don’t pay net GST on expenses so…. In practice it ends up being quite regressive.

          Of course given that it’s the hardest tax to offshore/avoid , it might be that it is the solution but it would heavily impact low income earners who would then need more support just to live. So if anything you’d need to make the income tax system more progressive.

          • AustriaBargain on 14/08/2022 - 23:19
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: The government could just give low income people the equivalent amount of tax they paid on GST for essentials. If they pay 20k a year on essentials and GST is raised to 20%, sot hey pay $2,000 a year more, then just give low income people $2,000 rebate on their taxes each year.

  • The Wololo Wombat on 12/08/2022 - 17:46
    +5

    I'll be earning over 200k this year (not my taxable income though 😉) and while I understand/even agree with the sentiment here, I still think our progressive system is better.

    Reason being is that our 'system' has worked for me - I'm succeeding. I owe a large part of my success to (tax funded) teachers & (tax funded) healthcare & (tax funded) transport networks & (tax funded) security {police/courts/military}.

    With greater success comes greater gratitude… and with greater gratitude, greater generosity should follow; I believe I have a social responsibility not to hoard my success, but to share it and invest into our society - making my path easier to follow.

    This is said… this only works if our institutions are using our tax $$ responsibly… so I'm getting a better return on my (forced) tax investment… which is why I vote for fiscally conservative political parties - they tend to be more efficient/effective in their use of tax $$ (though lately… I'm not sure anymore)

      • Miss B on 12/08/2022 - 18:10
        +5

        Why did you bother with the tax rate as high as it is? I thought your point was that it stops people from working hard to make $200k? Surely you wouldn't want to earn so much and would want to stay under $120k so your marginal tax rate isn't too high?

      • SBOB on 12/08/2022 - 18:12
        +9

        So you came to a country which permitted you to earn a high income, and are not interested in paying your share of tax to the country which allows you to earn such an income.

        I'm at a loss why you think anyone would be anti such views :/

        • The Wololo Wombat on 12/08/2022 - 18:37
          +4

          "Bottom feeders…" that suggests OP sees themselves as fundamentally different to poor people. Inherently above them. That's very much the oppositie of (historically/culturally) Australian values (which sees everyone as equal value, regardless of income).

          I wonder if this sense of entitlement and lack of generosity (demonstrated here) are connected with cultural/historical attitudes towards the poor in India

          • Kirkitplayer3 on 13/08/2022 - 09:59
            +1

            @The Wololo Wombat: Agreed with everything except the link to the caste system, we don't know his caste. "Lower" castes have received job reservations for years. Obviously gaps and a superiority complex exist, however, it's not like it was a generation or so ago. Practicing Priests (who are on the "top" of the system, and actually perform duties unlike most Brahmins today) are among the poorest of their caste, which you'd think would be the opposite. Example: Shocking is the fact that a priest at the nearby Vilvanathar temple in Pathamadai is paid a salary of Rs. 19 per month while at the historical and ancient Kailasanathar temple in Brahmadesam, the priest is paid a salary of Rs. 215. Narasimha Gopalan has put together data on the salary paid to priests and other temple service personnel in close to 50 ancient temples in the Ambasamudram region.

            Let alone the fact that thousands of temples are directly run by the state, and money goes to what the govt decides (try telling that to a tax-free church in Australia).

            Getting off track with it, you're on point with the rest of it.

          • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 20:56
            -8

            @The Wololo Wombat: Haha, Here comes the racist. Was wondering where you were but here you go. I wonder if the racism that you espouse comes from what Australia's known for - racism - https://www.gawker.com/politics/australia-the-racism-factory I'm sure a bunch of your convict genes from your ancestry are lighting up to show your racism.

            I really doubt you are making 200k after writing a post like this. Pretty sure you don't have the IQ to hit those numbers and are just here for virtue signalling.

            Firstly the caste system is not about rich or poor. Secondly painting 1.4B people with the caste system and telling me that I could be treating Australians in that way really shows what a low class human being you are.

            Thirdly it is not entitlement to reap the FULL benefits of my labour. It is FOR SURE ENTITLEMENT for you to demand a slice of my labour and giving me static on why I should share more. Nice try on digressing from the original point that somehow Australian society helped me to get to where I am. No it didn't. There was a need and there was no one around and they asked me if I could help.

            India has elected literally the President from a lower caste and she is a woman. Let Australia do that, then we can talk. Can't even run a parliament without sexual harassment yet has the gall to lecture others. GTFOH

            • The Wololo Wombat on 13/08/2022 - 21:18

              @satyaguru: What gives you the impression that what I said was racist? Derogatory attitudes towards poor people in India seems to have a historical contextual/basis… and the article you shared suggests that racist attitudes towards foreigners in Australia seems to have a historical/context…

              So, if by your measure, I am indeed racist, then, by that same measure, you must also be, a racist…

              Or perhaps neither of as are racists, but your perception of my 'racism' is actually a projection of your own values/attitudes towards yourself /others….

              • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 21:19
                -2

                @The Wololo Wombat: You are definitely a racist my friend. Australians in many blue chip suburbs have derogatory attitudes towards poor people and so do Americans. Singling out me just because I said that shows your vile and virulent racism. Love how creeps such as yourself defend your racism. I stand by my words. There will come a time (not too soon in the future) where you will be cancelled just like the United States and UK and not be allowed to work. That time is coming.

                Enjoy your freedom of speech while it lasts. You haven't given a single rebuttal to what I said.

                • The Wololo Wombat on 13/08/2022 - 21:22

                  @satyaguru: I didn't rebut your arguments, instead, I questioned foundation that your arguments rest upon.

                  • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 21:23
                    -3

                    @The Wololo Wombat: And you have no standing to question those foundations like I've just pointed out to you. Australia didn't do anything for me to earn 200k. Your ancestors have destroyed the country I came from to rubble and India is coming out of the ashes by the merit of Indians. Not Australians. I'm a beneficiary of India. Australia benefits from me staying here.

                    Just because I represent libertarian values you commented about my ethnicity and why I could be doing that when other western countries also have libertarian values like the United States and even Australia's own LNP party. That's racism right there!

                    • SBOB on 13/08/2022 - 21:31

                      @satyaguru:

                      libertarian values like the United States and even Australia's own LNP party.

                      ha. you think the US or the LNP has libertarian values.
                      oh boy…thats a good one.

                      • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 21:35
                        -4

                        @SBOB: Those are the closest. I hated LNP when they shut down the borders and restricted our movements. But Labour is even worse. Diversity programs are equality of outcome based instead of equality of opportunity. Giving white privileged women extra preferences in hiring. Very restrictive on speech (look at what albo said on mean girls comment).

                        USA is also not libertarian but it's the closest to libertarian capitalism. Which is why its GDP is going up and most innovations come from there.

        • SlavOz on 13/08/2022 - 09:39

          Since when do you need permission to earn $200k? This is a free country (or so the tale goes). The pursuit of happiness and self preservation is largely implied to be a God-given, inalienable right in most legal contexts. It's not something you need to ask for and be granted.

          Australia needs immigrants much more than immigrants need Australia. We have a pathological skill shortage and our birth rate is already below replacement (and trending downwards). We would perish without immigrants. They would be fine without us.

          The government's plan for immigrants is to sit in a regular job and be a low-middle class worker until they die. They are rarely given the encouragement or tools required to chase a high level of success. If it was up Parliament, the immigrants would spend their whole life on welfare or housing commission as this makes then much more obedient and easier to manipulate.

          If someone is able to defy the odds and become financially well off, they owe the government jack shit. Is Australia going to use that money to promote Indian values and credos that originally led to that person's success? No, they're going to pocket most of it for Albo's lifelong pension or some other wealth grab.

          • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 20:59
            -5

            @SlavOz: Well (profanity) said. I don't even see Indians at the political leadership or corporate leadership like the USA, Canada or UK. Why should I owe Australia anything for that matter? They will put me down the first instant they see me reaching for higher positions.

            NEVER signing up for taking a dime of my tax! Already started negative gearing and will apply a bunch of tax breaks to keep that money for myself.

        • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 20:52

          SBOB. When I applied to move out from India from what was already a pretty handsome salary of 180K USD (INR converted) in Bangalore, I had offers from the United States, Australia and UK.

          Trust me, Australia needs me more than the other way around. Don't be worried about what I have, be worried about what you have!

          • SBOB on 13/08/2022 - 20:59
            +4

            @satyaguru: Well if you had offers from around the world, were earning $180k usd and decided to chose Australia on 200k aud….

            well, perhaps you're either really bad at exchange rate maths or you realise there are other social benefits to Australia over some of those other counties…
            Those social benefits might be possible due to taxes and the associated progressive tax rates.

            They were also existing before you migrated. You sound like the kind of person that complain about noise after they buy a house next to a live music pub.

            Trust me, Australia needs me more than the other way around

            On only $200k?..I very much doubt that you're as important as you think you are.

            • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 21:01
              -2

              @SBOB: Yawn! My point still stands. Not signing up for any more tax. Will vote LNP every single time.

              Those social benefits might be possible due to taxes and the associated progressive tax rates.

              Giving away free childcare or home equity is not a social benefit. That's freebies. You need to earn your keep instead of leeching of others money like a low class citizen. I find it insulting for the government to give me home equity. That's not the kind of person I aspire to be.

              • SlavOz on 13/08/2022 - 21:27

                @satyaguru: LNP are the slight lesser of 2 evils but they'll never see a preference vote from me ever again. Vote for small government right-wing parties or fiscal conservatives.

                • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 21:30

                  @SlavOz: Yep. One person here that speaks the truth!! Liberal Democrats might be a great option. Huge fan of david leyonhjelm. However most Australians hate him to the core.

                  • SlavOz on 13/08/2022 - 21:33

                    @satyaguru: If most Australians hate someone, it's because the media hates that person.

                    Now ask yourself if the media really has your best interest and enlightenment at heart.

                    At this point, being hated by the media is a tribute that you're doing something to piss off people who hate you. Job well done.

                    • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 21:36

                      @SlavOz: Media is corrupt to the core. I can listen to sky news a little bit here and there but left wing media like the Guardian are just poison.

                      If you are talking about my character, well that's something Australians have to change. Make the country more meritocratic and you will see my attitude change.

                      Like I said, it's no longer a choice for Indians to move to Australia. We are accepted with red carpet treatment in most western countries. Australia has to change to keep selecting the top 5% of immigrants every year. Not Indians. We are doing pretty well all things considered.

                      I don't have to change my character for any kind of media bias.

            • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 21:03

              @SBOB:

              On only $200k?..I very much doubt that you're as important as you think yo

              Yes on "only" 200K. The top 3% of income in the country. Facts elude you because you are just full of it ;). Most likely a NEETcel.

              • Miss B on 13/08/2022 - 21:16
                +2

                @satyaguru: I was wondering if you were a troll when I realised you signed up just to comment on this thread, but you've definitely confirmed it since then.

                • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 21:18

                  @Miss B: Thanks so much for your validation. It's confirmed what Miss B has said. I'm a troll (slow clap).

                  • Miss B on 13/08/2022 - 21:26
                    +2

                    @satyaguru: Good luck with the rest of high school. Maybe one day you will have a $200k job.

              • SBOB on 13/08/2022 - 21:30
                +2

                @satyaguru: My favourite part of your argument is, based on a quick online calc
                For the last FY (no deductions)

                In India, if you were earning $180k USD (~14.3 million inr) your tax rate would have been about 34%.
                In Australia, if you were earning $200k AUD your tax rate would have been about 32%.

                Aren't you glad that our tax laws are more favorable. :)
                Could be worse if you were a truly "high" income earner though

                • satyaguru on 13/08/2022 - 21:32
                  -3

                  @SBOB: You just confirmed what I said. I hate India's taxation system too. I'm not like an Indian patriot. For the 34% I get jack squat in India. It's the same story here. I don't get home equity, I don't get many first home buyer grants, I don't get any of the jobseeker, jobkeeper stuff. Why should I pay when most Australians hate rich people (my kind) so much?

          • SBOB on 13/08/2022 - 21:15
            +1

            @satyaguru:

            There is no place for you in Australia.

            is irony a part of the citizenship test?

  • satyaguru on 12/08/2022 - 17:55
    -8

    Low income earners definitely pay too less tax for the benefits they receive. This bunch of freeloaders must pay their fair share.

  • bigbadboogieman on 12/08/2022 - 18:29
    +1

    I do agree to some extent. Why penalise higher income earners more by having incremental tax slabs? And force the rort that is MLS to fill private health insurers pockets? There should be a simple single tax rate. I feel like I should work less because any increment to my income is incrementally reduced due to the current tax slab structure.

    It is also unfair that you can't be taxed as a family when your spouse / family members have lower tax thresholds unused/wasted and you're still being taxed the higher rate.

    • Mrgreenz on 12/08/2022 - 20:27
      +2

      MLS is the devils work.

      If you earn around the threshold you are either forced to buy trash cover to save a couple hundred bucks maybe, roll the dice and hope you scrape under, and don't get slammed by the blunt tax.

      Or buy full cover of course, but that is more of a personal choice.

  • Wasabi Ninja on 12/08/2022 - 18:37
    +3

    The problem is, low income earners are crabs in a barrel. One starts to climb out, the others pull them back in. Instead of looking at how they can be better off, they just want the better off to be worse off.

    • TEER3X on 12/08/2022 - 19:32
      +2

      Not sure what you're saying exactly but if it's to lower taxes on the middle class, then I agree

    • smartazz104 on 13/08/2022 - 12:32

      As if the "better off" don't want the "less better off" to be even worse off…

      • Wasabi Ninja on 15/08/2022 - 09:24

        They don’t even think about them, let alone need or want them to be worse off. Crabs are crabs.

    • Griffindinho on 14/08/2022 - 14:11

      “Temporarily embarrassed millionaires”?

  • TEER3X on 12/08/2022 - 19:00
    +2

    I don't know much about optimal tax strategy, but I fully support taxing places of worship and other (not all) charities

  • salamandersushi on 12/08/2022 - 20:43

    Business/company taxation needs to be restructured to ensure tax increases are not passed on to the consumer, stockholder return is moderated better and tax reduction is reduced.

    Very high income earners should be taxed more.

    Low to median/median-high income earners should be taxed less.

    Get rid of private healthcare and increase Medicare cost to all citizens, include dental and ensure our healthcare system is properly supported - all medical services should be essentially "free" to the consumer when they visit.

    Make tertiary education free.

    Bring back the Dinosaurs tv show and Pizza Hut all you can eat.

    • TEER3X on 12/08/2022 - 20:46
      +1

      Make tertiary education free

      HECS debt is basically interest free

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 12/08/2022 - 21:20

      Business/company taxation needs to be restructured to ensure tax increases are not passed on to the consumer, stockholder return is moderated better and tax reduction is reduced.

      sounds good but 'taxes' are expenses and all expenses always get passed on the consumer - thus why wage increases and taxing businesses are always hot topics

      Very high income earners should be taxed more.

      if by very high you mean people making over 400-500k i agree

      Low to median/median-high income earners should be taxed less.

      slight disagree the hardly make up 1/3 of tax collected as is - if anything the fax free threshold should be increased but thats about it

      Get rid of private healthcare and increase Medicare cost to all citizens, include dental and ensure our healthcare system is properly supported - all medical services should be essentially "free" to the consumer when they visit.

      agree

      Make tertiary education free.

      hell no the current system works fine if anything HEC repayments should be regardless of earnings pa

    • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2022 - 23:12
      +1

      all medical services should be essentially "free" to the consumer when they visit.

      Make tertiary education free.

      It’s a fine balance between encouraging preventative care (which is cheaper and better) and massively wasteful spending (and huge wait lists). Overall Australia does a better job than most, with ample room for improvement. Affordability shouldn’t be an obstruction to medical care, but people who can afford it paying a token amount for some services to avoid unnecessary spending isn’t terrible. People often don’t respect ‘free’.

      HECS is a decent compromise to free, but the total fees have really become higher than they should, and payment thresholds that high that some people never pay it back, defeating the point of raising the prices anyway. And until the pandemic many institutions wasted so much money on things that weren’t core to their supposed function, while underpaying educators.

  • Dack Smith on 12/08/2022 - 21:39
    -4

    Not sure $180,000 qualifies fully as a high income earner.

    I’m all for the rich to pay big taxes, but now I think people that earn less than $250000 annually should not be considered high income earners. They should not be doing the bulk of the heavy lifting.

    Earnings over $250,000 should be taxed at 85% for every dollar over that amount.

    The Medicare levy needs to be increased to 5%

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 12/08/2022 - 21:40

      i'd say this would be a more fair system - although 85 percent seems a bit excessive maybe 60%

      Medicare levy is fine the way it is just stop propping up the private health system and give that money to the public system

    • helpme on 12/08/2022 - 22:12
      +3

      Wow…180k not being a high income earner…

      • netsurfer on 13/08/2022 - 00:23
        +1

        Sadly, the reality is no. It's not high enough (according to my accountant) to do anything useful to minimise tax. Standard property investment is probably the only way.

        ATO wants you to think that way because people earning around $180,000 most likely pay a lot of tax so ATO wants you to think they are high income earner to numb your brain. Really rich people don't pay much tax. Also, $180,000 is too low for most doctors.

        Really rich people rarely use OZBargain.

        • dvsbastard on 13/08/2022 - 01:14
          +1

          The reality is if you earn $180k you earn more than 96.4% of individuals.

          Some people lose perspective because they are surrounded by people who are in a generally similar situation (similar living location, education, employment, etc) and although that doesn't mean they can all own fleets of super yachts, they are still better than the vast majority of the Australian population.

          • netsurfer on 13/08/2022 - 11:12

            @dvsbastard: The problem is that in that remaining 3.6%, the real earning scale is huge. A family friend (who is an anaesthetist) earns 700K+ per year, apparently after tax (not sure about the details but either the hospital pays for the tax or there is some other special arrangement).

            Math percentage can be easily manipulated to trick people. I am surrounded by real rich people, even my accountant is far richer than me (so he was blunt and basically told me indirectly I am poor).

        • helpme on 13/08/2022 - 07:22

          It's not high enough (according to my accountant) to do anything useful to minimise tax. Standard property investment is probably the only way.

          I'm speechless..

          • netsurfer on 13/08/2022 - 11:18

            @helpme: The really is that rich people are really rich. I once complained to my bank that I've been treated like a number. The bank assigned a relationship manager to me. However, just before my second meeting with that relationship manager, the previous client walked out and they talked briefly about his new 3 million dollar investment with the bank.

            So, you can think of paying too much tax as earning too much. The reality is the rich people just worry about earning more money (and let their accountants sort things out).

            • helpme on 13/08/2022 - 13:17

              @netsurfer: Yeah and the next level above that is off shore accounts, that doesn't make the people with <5mil any less rich.

    • us3rnam3tak3n on 13/08/2022 - 19:19

      "Not sure $180,000 qualifies fully as a high income earner."

      Utterly delusional.

    • aa on 14/08/2022 - 00:54

      If they made me pay 85% tax for every dollar over 250k, there would be no incentive for anyone to earn that much anymore. As i would be in that situation i would be quickly reducing my income to under that amount and relying on government benefits. There will be absolutely no point in the extra work i put in to earn over that amount anymore.

  • Windows7forever on 13/08/2022 - 09:04

    It's a conspiracy to wipe out middle class wealth

  • DASHCAM NOW DUDE on 13/08/2022 - 14:43

    Not an unpopular opinion.

    • us3rnam3tak3n on 13/08/2022 - 19:22

      Less than 50% of a binary poll - technically unpopular.

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 13/08/2022 - 19:34
      +1

      this is OZ-socialist man i was expecting it to be close to 90 percent disagree im shocked it is close to 50/50

      however from what ive seen of socialist they are all for spending other peoples money until it they have to spend there i dare to all the people voting they agree are within the salary range paying the most amount of tax

  • joelmuzz on 13/08/2022 - 16:51

    If you are high income paying high tax then that's on you because there are very effective tax minimisation schemes.

    Of course the taxpayer percentage vs population is skewed, since only 20 to 60yo are generally earning taxable incomes and even amongst that group a big chunk are raising children, ongoing education or have conditions preventing full-time employment.

    • aa on 14/08/2022 - 00:57

      i've seen some very questionable schemes out there, unfortunately for someone who is just starting out and learning about these, they are quickly being banned, also it can take years to re-setup yourself financially to benefit from such schemes and usually by the time you get there, laws change rendering them useless.
      It's tough for someone trying to climb the ladder, but for someone who's already there it's much easier to take advantange of such schemes.

  • drift7rs on 13/08/2022 - 17:59

    tax the corpos and those who are ridiculously rich, ease off the rest of us

  • Franc-T on 13/08/2022 - 19:49
    +4

    This should read 'PAYG high earners are paying too much tax' as you get corporations, investors and self-employed and small businesses avoiding so much tax its not funny.

    Id go so far as to say medium earners are also paying too much tax tbh.

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 13/08/2022 - 19:51

      fair i agree with this

    • 00000000 on 14/08/2022 - 07:44

      Yup my old boss used to pay himself minimum wage so he could get a low income card.

  • MessyG on 13/08/2022 - 20:49
    +1
    1. It probably wouldn't have to be that high if corporations paid tax.
    2. I'm not against higher taxes if they're used for community good, instead of funnelling our tax revenue to private contractors for kickbacks. It's not too much tax if we get value for money but I'm not seeing that value for the last decade at least. There are countries in Northern Europe with proper universal healthcare and education on similar tax rates and I don't understand why we don't get the same.

    ETA: And any time a party tries to sell tax cuts, the tax cut ends up being pennies thrown at the peasants to keep them happy while they pocket millions for their mates.

  • gengi on 13/08/2022 - 21:09

    The top 20% of people own 2/3 of the wealth and receive 48% of the earnings. One issue with the tax system is there are too many loopholes and work around such as trusts. Should simply it but the re your original question seems about fair they pay 2/3 of the tax.

    https://mccrindle.com.au/insights/blog/australias-income-and…

  • JohnHowardsEyebrows on 13/08/2022 - 22:34
    +1

    People who think high income earners pay too much tax, are generally ignorant of 1) how high tax rates are in other civilised countries, and 2) the fact that their good fortune has a lot more to do with the society that provided education and opportunity, than it did with their quaint notion of hard work.

    • TEER3X on 14/08/2022 - 07:18

      Income taxes are higher in the US

      I know plenty of well off people that got there through very hard work, I don't know anyone who got there without it, I'd say very few achieved that status through luck / being born into it.

      • cille745 on 14/08/2022 - 11:35
        +1

        I don’t think people complain very much about people being born into it or achieving it through luck, more so that their position gives them the opportunity to work hard for it in the first place

      • Griffindinho on 14/08/2022 - 14:14
        +1

        Your anecdotal evidence doesn’t match reality. Most people who “made it” had other support which they benefited from. Instead assume it’s their “hard work” which contributed most to their success.

        Survivorship bias.

      • JohnHowardsEyebrows on 14/08/2022 - 16:12
        +2

        Completely missed the point. Plenty of poor people work hard. It's deliberate obtuseness to suggest good fortune is only a result of hard work.

  • aa on 14/08/2022 - 00:38
    +1

    As a high income earner i feel I'm paying too much tax.
    I work 7 days a week 10+ hours a day, if i go on holidays i still need to work 4-5 hours a day.
    I work when i'm sick, there is no sick pay, and the current work life balance isn't doing my health any favours.
    I don't get child care subsidy, and with 2 kids, that's 75k (of after tax money) a year to put 2 kids through childcare 5 days a week, so i can work.
    I don't own a McMansion.
    I do drive a Mercedes.
    I pay over 200k in taxes every year.
    The government is too inefficient and wastes too much of these tax dollars.
    I receive no government subsidies.
    I don't feel pressures of every day living expenses.
    I still can't afford to buy a nice house.

    Whilst there are lots of news out there about millionaires and billionaires that pay no tax, you need to remember, someone has paid the tax for them to get there - either their parents (and they inherited the money), or they did themselves, or they have kicked the can down the road (for their offspring to pay). For the ones paying no tax, in the most simplistic terms, they are basically not drawing on their income and leaving it in the business (yes there are investment write offs etc). I call these people 'rich', I don't consider myself 'rich'

    So as someone who is starting out as a high income earner, whilst i work my way towards being 'rich', the only way to get there is to draw out the income so i can spend it, and in doing so pay a shitload of tax along the way. The current system heavily favours the lower-middle class band, and the uber wealthy, but makes it extremely difficult to climb that ladder.

    I could invest all my money and lower my income dramatically, not pay tax, draw on government rebates, but i would need to be reducing my income to a point where i couldn't afford the nicer things in life and where's the fun in that?

    If i do get over that hump and become 'uber wealthy', or even once i've achieved certain goals, won't need to earn lots of money anymore, i'll just need enough to sustain my lifestyle, and i too will pay less tax by reducing my income, i will do this by leaving the money in my business and reinvesting it, whilst i may become more and more wealthy on paper, i won't actually be able to enjoy this money as it technically doesn't belong to me. Should i ever wanted to withdraw it, i'll be paying further income tax on it bringing the total tax paid to the same as the highest tax bracket. Perhaps i'll setup shop in another country too, most of my money comes from overseas anyway.

    There's basically not much incentive to make more money than you have to in this country, i guess i'm not that ambitious?

    I would like to see some sort of universal income system, scrap all the subsidies and pay everyone a universal income, i feel this is more fair. There's actually a lot of ways to earn money, even unskilled jobs as cleaners pay heaps and there are plenty of work out there, you just got to be willing to do the hard work and work efficiently and effectively then you'll get there.

    • SBOB on 14/08/2022 - 02:42
      +5

      Congrats on going from a "peasant" who thought out tax system was "quite robust" 2 years ago, to now earning over $500k a year.

      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/9177358/redir

      • Griffindinho on 14/08/2022 - 14:17

        Another whirlpool millionaire /s

      • aa on 15/08/2022 - 13:39

        Why thank you, and whilst your post many be sarcastic, but this is actually what happened, whilst i may not have been living at the poverty line 2 years ago, i did quit my PAYG job and start my own business, whilst that is being established there is little income.

    • AustriaBargain on 14/08/2022 - 23:23
      -2

      Nobody is forcing you to work 70 hour weeks. No one is forcing you to work 5+ hours a day on your holidays. You say there's not much incentive under the current system, but clearly there is because you're doing all that work and making all that money anyway. Saying there's not much incentive rings kinda hollow.

      • aa on 15/08/2022 - 13:44
        +1

        no, certainly not, but i would like to get ahead and offer my family a financially stable future. whilst i'm achieving such goals i obviously need money to spend, and as such need the income to support that, but as soon as those goals are met, there will be absolutely no further incentive to sustain such high income. I think you'll find that most posts here agree that those who are already wealthy can and do hide income, and once i've reach the point where i can take advantage of such schemes this is exactly what i will be doing too. it's not great for the economy but this is what the current policy encourages people to do.

        keeping on topic, for the reasons above, i do believe tax is too high, it's unfair for those who are putting in the hard yards to try and get ahead and is too easily circumvented for people who have already established themselves. It needs reform to make it fairer for all.

        • AustriaBargain on 15/08/2022 - 15:29

          You get taxed exactly the same as someone working full-time on minimum wage at Woolworths. You get taxed exactly the same on the thirst 19k each of you make, and so on. And if taking home 135k after earning 200k isn't enough incentive for you, then you should cut your hours and make the median 60k and take home 49k instead. Nobody is stopping you from doing this, plenty of families are provided for on 60k incomes.

          • aa on 15/08/2022 - 15:54

            @AustriaBargain: and that is probably exactly what is going to happen once i'm mortgage free, i'm going to be dropping a tax bracket or two and pulling in government subsidies. the point i'm raising is there is no incentive for someone to keep working harder and remain on the higher income brackets, it would be more beneficial for the country for more people to get to those higher tax brackets, collect more tax, reduce dependence on subsidies and spend more money to keep the economy going.

            • erasimos on 15/08/2022 - 20:53

              @aa: The biggest dissinventive to work more is between 45k and 80k. Lots of people actually lose income if they increase their hours due to the loss of subsidies and other taxes. No matter what % tax you pay higher up you actually have more money to spend.
              The only thing that gets more expensive is your expectations.
              Better schools, better cars and all of you competing for better houses sending the prices higher.

  • Jikx on 14/08/2022 - 09:37
    +3

    These stats are declared taxable income.
    Hence littered with Doctors, since they mostly have no way to reduce their taxable income.

    What's not captured are those who own business and can "pay" themselves $1 and instead borrow money to pay for their day to day expenses. The uber rich can really pay very little proportionally.

    • ymmf on 14/08/2022 - 11:30
      +2

      That's exactly right. And guess what, if the doctor has a stay at home mum and kids they get zero subsidies or offset to their taxable income. It's worse off than two income earners on half the salary.

      • brawndo on 15/08/2022 - 20:23

        Maybe the doctor's mum needs to get a job

      • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2022 - 11:28

        Or you know, if they’re a single parent.

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