How to Ventilate Bathroom

Ash-Say on 31/08/2022 - 19:30

My apartment's bathroom has no window so there is ongoing struggle to keep it mould free.

It was freshly painted last year and added mould defender but it appears it's not going to help.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/protite-75ml-mould-defender-pain…

They have done stupid wiring for ceiling fan and light. The exhaust fan only turns on when the light is switched on which means you can't leave the exhaust fan alone. There is also dryer/washing machine in one corner this bathroom which add further pain.

I will really appreciate some tips to get this issue rectified permanently.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • HandsomeSquidward on 01/09/2022 - 10:27
    +2
    • Light/fan has been installed to code. Leave it on for at least 30 mins post shower to fully remove all the moisture in the air. Ensure you have a window cracked somewhere in your apartment so the fan has air to draw to work at optimum efficiency.
    • If you're finding this isn't enough, get a small window vacuum (Bunnings have Karcher, but Kmart has a knock off version) and vacuum up all the water from your shower after using. Dump down the drain or outside so you're not just adding the water back to the air of your apartment.
    • The dryer, if a vented model but not actually vented to the outside, will be a HUGE contributor to your mould issue. Each wash will add litres of water to the air which has to go somewhere. A heat pump model is the only safe option for your situation. Once you see the huge volume of water in the tank that comes from every wash, you'll see why mould has been growing in your bathroom/laundry. The Good Guys has a cheap no name brand model and I think Appliances Online have a slightly more expensive Essato. Just be aware they must be stacked, not wall hung due to weight.
    • I wouldn't bother with a dehumidifier until you've addressed these issues as you might find the above actions are enough. No point trying to remove a heap of water from the air when you can not produce it or extract it efficiently in the first place.
  • bweiss on 01/09/2022 - 11:38

    You could have an electrician install an additional switch which would also turn on the exhaust fan.
    In my reading of the NCC there is no requirement for the light and exhaust fan to be switched together, it's just a convenient 'Deemed-to-satisfy solution'.
    It is still possible to implement alternative solutions which would meet the 'Performance solution' requirements (which are generally around mold / condensing moisture prevention), so if you had a humidity sensor and automated fan, or had the fan from a timer on both the light and another power socket activation (for dryer etc).

  • cupcake on 01/09/2022 - 11:38
    +1

    Bathrooms need air flow and sunlight.
    Without a window, it means there is a lot of moisture in the room when you shower.
    If you don't have a fan, use a heater to dry the room?
    Keep your shower door open, the bathroom door open to keep it dry.
    Mould is always a big issue in rentals and landlords try to keep bathroom windows open permanently for this reason.

  • GrimCheaper on 01/09/2022 - 11:40

    This is my greatest fear. I rented the top floor of an old house that had been divided into 2 apartments.
    Even though there was a tiny window it had tall roofs and the condensation from the shower would just cling to the roof every time.
    Eventually black mold started to appear.

    When we moved into a new apartment it only had a very small extractor fan which doesn't do anything. So I bought a cheap oscillating pedestal fan and keep it running all the time with the door open. Usually we put the fan on the max when having a shower, then I just put it on 20%-30% when we go out for the day.

    It might add a few dollars to the electricity bill, but it keeps the room dry at all times.

    • shaybisc on 01/09/2022 - 12:52

      "So I bought a cheap oscillating pedestal fan and keep it running all the time with the door open."

      Is that the shower door? Is the fan oscillating or aimed only at the shower?

      • GrimCheaper on 01/09/2022 - 16:07
        +1

        When showering I keep both the shower door and bathroom door closed.
        When not showering I always keep the showdoor open (to dry the shower out), and the bathroom door (to push the humidity out and let dry air come in)

        • GrimCheaper on 01/09/2022 - 18:38
          +1

          and the fan is oscillating

  • Herbse on 01/09/2022 - 12:04

    Check that it's an actual exhaust fan you have and not a cooling fan for the heating lamp. A cooling fan won't help with the steam.

  • IM-Cheap on 01/09/2022 - 14:09
    +1

    Leave door to bathroom open when not use and open window in connecting room.

  • yokel on 01/09/2022 - 15:17

    All I can add is that experiences like these should influence your choices when looking for the next property to live in. I would try to push this issue on to the landlord being a flawed bathroom design. You will have to do your part in keeping the area as dry as you can using a squeegee on the glass which takes a minute after a shower. Hopefully the water runs into the drain in the shower tray. Nothing beats having windows in bathrooms and kitchens.

    • Ghost47 on 01/09/2022 - 20:18
      +1

      Nothing beats having windows in bathrooms and kitchens.

      Speaks volumes about the state of newly built apartments these days that a window in a bathroom and kitchen is a "nice to have" lmfao.

    • Hangryuman on 02/09/2022 - 15:56

      'Nothing beats having windows in bathrooms and kitchens'

      disagree - we had windows in all of bathroom, laundry and separate toilet in Canberra free-standing house

      it was a freezing nightmare going to the toilet in winter - bare skin on a freezing toilet seat - BRRRRR !!!

      we now have a windowless bathroom - with good cross-ventilation so we just leave the bathroom door open after showering without using the extractor fan at all - and never have a problem with mould or a freezing toilet seat in the middle of winter !

      but I would not want to live in the commonly-built one-sided units where you have no cross-ventilation so may need to rely on extractor fans to remove cooking smells and moisture after showering and breathing to prevent mould

      • yokel on 03/09/2022 - 08:04

        Can you imagine having an outdoor toilet not connected to a sewer? Life is easy these days.

  • R4 on 01/09/2022 - 16:24
    +3

    You can get a combined electronic light and fan switch - Clipsal make one - that has a normal light switch and an electronic timer for the fan that continues to operate after the light is turned off. You can set the timer from 3 minutes to several hours. I have one in one of our bathrooms that doesn't have a window, only an extractor fan, and it works very well. Mould has never been an issue - although the fan I fitted is way over specced. You could probably fit one yourself if both the switched active wires for the light and fan are at the switch. If not, and there is only one switched active at the switch, with the light and fan jumpered in the ceiling, you'd probably need to get an electrician in.

    I'm an electrician BTW and have some experience of this kind of stuff if that helps.

    • itsme56 on 01/09/2022 - 18:39
      +1

      Definitely a plus 1 for having a timer on a combo switch.

    • whitfords on 01/09/2022 - 22:57

      One of our bathrooms has a single switch which turns on the light and exhaust fan like the OP. I was under the impression that it’s sometimes not as simple as replacing the switch. Don’t you need to run another cable in the wall, one to control the light and one to control the fan, or is two switches possible with the old wiring?

      • R4 on 02/09/2022 - 11:42
        +1

        It depends. If both the active wires to the light and fan have been run from the switch, then it's easy as they can be split and connected to the light and fan contacts on the switch. This is the way it should be done if the electrician is competent. If there's only one switched active from the switch and the light and fan have been connected to this in the ceiling (jumpered) then another wire is going has to be run from the switch to the light or fan. In that case, you'd probably need to get an electrician in - although you could DIY if confident. It's not a difficult job.

    • Hangryuman on 02/09/2022 - 16:00

      'I'm an electrician BTW and have some experience of this kind of stuff if that helps'

      very good thanks - these don't look user-adjustable - https://www.clipsal.com/products/clipsal-timers

      can you suggest any that might be - like have a rotating knob the user could adjust the duration for the fan run-on timer ?

      thanks if you would

      • R4 on 02/09/2022 - 16:57

        No, that's not what you need. It looks like the timer switch I have is discontinued as I can't find it on the Clipsal website. You can get a run on timer module that can be wired into your existing light switch and is small enough to fit in the wall mounting enclosure behind the switch. This is the kind of thing:
        https://thelightingoutlet.com.au/products/exhaust-fan-run-on…

        This is a cheaper option as I recall the Clipsal switch being pretty expensive - it's at least 10 years since I fitted it.

        Bunnings do one but it's not as flexible as the above as it's preset at 7 minutes run time that is not adjustable:
        https://www.bunnings.com.au/manrose-7-min-run-on-timer_p0253…

        Mine is set to 3 minutes run time and that is more than enough to clear the room of steam and moisture after a shower.

        This module should be relatively easy to fit if you have separate active wires for the light and fan at the switch. If not, get a sparky in.

  • trev likes bargains on 01/09/2022 - 17:51

    Can you please add a photo of the bathroom and the fan/light?

  • Elppa8 on 01/09/2022 - 18:09

    This would seem to be a solution.
    https://www.panasonic.com/au/hvac/ventilation/motion-sensor-…

  • itsme56 on 01/09/2022 - 18:38

    Does your shower have a door or is it open? Modern design like open showers. A door makes an incredible difference containing majority of the steam/moisture to the shower. Heat rises and stays high, so if the hot water never had a chance to get to the bottom of the rest of the room it won’t get wet. It will stay in the shower and the roof leading to the exhaust.

    • Hangryuman on 02/09/2022 - 15:32

      I have seen South Asian tenants complaining about bathroom mould, who when advised to open the bathroom door, have looked askance

      maybe something in their culture about toilet/bathroom being 'dirty' and a place you keep closed, especially if inside near your bedroom ?

  • OzzyOzbourne on 01/09/2022 - 18:47

    Never had any mould in my bathroom with no opening window and a ceiling fan

    • Hangryuman on 02/09/2022 - 15:35

      your bathroom has a ceiling fan ? wow - sounds like a high ceilinged Queensland house - maybe VJ timber walls - that would be unlikely to have a mould problem due to timber walls and random ventilation due to the lack of air-tightness ?

      • OzzyOzbourne on 02/09/2022 - 16:47

        Just standard brick veneer low ceiling in Melbourne. Pretty much the same as all the 5 houses I've been in….I find as long as the fan is switched on during or even after the shower until all the steam has gone, then I've not had a problem. Good indicator is to wait until the bathroom mirror is clear. Current house has roof extractor that's in the middle of the bathroom and not actually above the shower cubicle.

  • ansh4friends on 01/09/2022 - 18:48

    If you own the unit, first change the switch that split into fan and light switch then get smart switch installed. You can set up an automation to turn it off after some time(20-30 minutes) after you are done using the bathroom. That's what I do

    • Hangryuman on 02/09/2022 - 13:10

      when my windowless bathroom got a replacement extractor fan I asked the electrician to install separate switches for the fan and light as I didn't like the wind-chill from the cold air movement past my wet naked skin after a shower in winter

      that works for us as we have good cross-ventilation - we just leave the bathroom door open and natural air movement between the living and sleeping areas past the bathroom door removes moist air so we never have a problem with mould

      if you had a one-side unit with no natural cross-ventilation you'd probably need to use the extractor fan and/or a dehumidifier (some use Damp Rid hygroscopic crystals at like $4 a packet) - I think a dehumidifier might cost something to run - you do the math, etc.

      • ProlapsedHeinous on 03/09/2022 - 10:53

        even better, just buy cat litter crystals, same stuff and you get 5kg for 10 bucks or so. fill an icecream container and job done.

  • dpark88 on 01/09/2022 - 22:03

    Highly recommend getting a dehumidifier: https://www.binglee.com.au/products/ionmax-6l-zeolite-desicc…

    It changed my life. So long as the doors in your apartment are open, it will do the job. I run mine 24/7. Needs emptying twice a day.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 02/09/2022 - 08:28
      +1

      But around $55pm to run it 24/7

      • dpark88 on 02/09/2022 - 09:19

        For me personally, I noticed a $20/month increase.

        I run it on auto, so once it detects target humidity has been reached, it'll go on standby.

        • OzzyOzbourne on 02/09/2022 - 16:53

          They do work for sure and you could argue that it might be better than sucking in warm/cold air from outside through the house and into the bathroom using a roof extractor fan.
          Personally, I have vents through the wall from the toilet next to the bathroom so the air is sucked through the toilet (which has a small mesh vent to outside) and not the rest of the house.

  • jellykingdom on 02/09/2022 - 08:42

    You should have seen my investment apartment. The tenant wasn't using the fan (built into the window, which did also slide open a little) because she decided it was noisy and made the bathroom cold. It was horrific. I actually cleaned the whole bathroom myself (hot water and vinegar) because i was concerned she was going to die, and i'd somehow be held responsible

    • Hangryuman on 02/09/2022 - 13:11

      hope you claimed it against her bond - failure to clean ?

  • defro on 02/09/2022 - 09:06

    Two things:

    1. Leave the exhaust on aprox 1 hour after.
    2. Dehumidifier. They really do work.
  • TimmyTims on 02/09/2022 - 10:14

    For anyone curious, NCC2022 recently dropped and it has changes to energy efficiency and condensation targets. Hopefully future builds (after NCC 2022 comes into effect) will be less susceptible to the problems you're facing

    You can freely read the preview on efficiency and condensation but sadly need an account to read the full NCC
    https://ncc.abcb.gov.au/editions-national-construction-code

  • pogichinoy on 02/09/2022 - 10:51

    Flag it with the agent that the exhaust fan isn't enough to fight the mould including keeping the door of the bathroom open to air out.

    They need to ]upgrade the power of the exhaust fan or at least separate the switch.

    • Ash-Say on 02/09/2022 - 10:57

      I own the unit

      • pogichinoy on 02/09/2022 - 11:11

        Upgrade your exhaust to a unit that is more powerful.

        • Hangryuman on 02/09/2022 - 13:11

          if you haven't done so, try opening your far kin windows

        • knasty on 03/09/2022 - 08:52

          We have old and new IXLs in our house. The newer model sucks about 3x the air and makes a huge difference.

  • DiscountForThee on 02/09/2022 - 11:47

    I also want to echo other people who recommend keeping the shower AND bathroom door open all day when no one is in there. And having the apartment door and windows open for extra airflow can also help, but it might be cold in winter

  • Narull on 02/09/2022 - 12:46

    My bathroom has no window and a shitty fan, the way I avoid mould is.

    -Always shower with bathroom door open.
    -Leave shower door open after a shower.
    -Always have the window in my bedroom open to get a little airflow to the bathroom (bar really cold nights, but open it in the morning).
    -Have one of these DampRid's on the bathroom sink. (https://www.amazon.com.au/FG01K-Refillable-Moisture-Fragranc…)
    -Refill it every 2 weeks, buying the giant refill makes it a lot cheaper. (https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0797KR8MR/?coliid=IY0L8ZC4UXVD…)

    I'd love a dehumidifier but I don't have $500 to spend on one even know I know DampRid's will cost me more in the long term, atleast for now it's working combined with keeping the doors open.

  • pformag on 02/09/2022 - 13:07
    +1

    OP, change the light bulb to a wifi bulb, then you can switch it off while the fan is running.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 02/09/2022 - 16:55

      And put both the fan and light on alexa with motion and moisture sensor 👍

      • knasty on 03/09/2022 - 08:56

        If the bulb is a 10W Led you could leave it on 8 hours a day and it would barely affect the power bill if left on anyway, but yeah wifi bulb gives optionality.

  • dbun1 on 02/09/2022 - 14:09

    Having the light and fan on the same switch is not a bad thing as it means it will always come on rather than people switching the light on and forgetting to turn the fan on when showering etc.

    Splitting it up is not that hard if required.

    What you need to do is have an electrician wire a timer in so that every time you turn off the switch the exhaust fan will continue to run for another 15mins or so to fully extract the damp air as after a shower the air remains quite damp if the airflow is limited e.g. no window to open.

    It's annoying, but squeegeeing down the shower quickly after use also helps a lot in reducing moisture in the air. Keeping the shower door open a crack too makes a big difference in how quickly the water and humidity will disappear.

    Leave the bathroom door open as much as possible.

  • djprima on 02/09/2022 - 17:10

    Same issue with ours. We replaced the exhaust with something stronger like this one, squeegee everything and also turning on air circulator for awhile (vornado or something similar) after the last shower of the day.

    Key is keeping the bathroom dry overnight.

  • factor on 02/09/2022 - 17:29

    Get a shower dome. No need to take steam out of the bathroom if none is produced.

  • kriddy on 02/09/2022 - 20:20

    Assuming you have a glass shower screen, you can cover it in frost film and shower with the door open

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/pillar-90cm-x-2m-premium-static-…

  • Souljarh on 03/09/2022 - 07:57

    I have the same issue, so I have been considering a DC fan that is quiet and always on. https://www.beaconlighting.com.au/panasonic-24-hour-dc-exhau…
    Does anyone have any experience with this?

    • Hangryuman on 03/09/2022 - 08:23

      an extractor fan that is always on risks drawing in cold air in winter that may reduce occupant comfort so they spend more on heating ($$)

      so solving one problem (damp/condensation/mould) may create another (discomfort/spending more on heating)

      I'm sure there's a balance - but observed behavioural differences between owner-occupiers and tenants tend to be a much larger factor.

  • CarpeDiem295 on 03/09/2022 - 10:01

    Never close the door. Shower with door open
    Leave dry towels around
    The fan idea is good

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