Terrible! These baggage handlers (allegedly subcontractors from Swissport) have reportedly been temporarily stood down pending further investigations. They need to be tossed out themselves I reckon.
What do you think?
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce will again probably say it's the travellers' fault this has happened!
The workers have been sacked! ABC News
Credit to @Morphio25 for the update.
Qantas has subcontracted almost everything in the last three years so baggage handlers are subcontracted now.
Good point, allegedly they are subcontractors from a company called Swissport.
Doesn't matter. Paid to do a job, not perform wilful damage
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Agree but it’s enough for Qantas to reject full responsibility.
@jjjaar: I work in Banking. Under the Prudential Standards, APRA would have you by the frigging balls. If we outsource anything, we still have to be fully accountable and undertake appropriate due diligence. If Qantas thinks they can dodge executive accountability for much longer, they should reconsider that position. This is highly visible and it happens right under their nose. Its not like this is going on at some other facility that Qantas doesn't have access to.
@Thor Bargain God: Unfortunately anything not as regulated as the financial industry subbing out means you have no responsibility for what they do as long as you set the guidelines for them to follow. They dont follow those guidelines its such a shame but not the contractees fault
@preddye: This is not true. Aviation is highly regulated, any personnel or contracted tasks which have anything to with the aircraft and Qantas would be retaining ultimate accountability (for safety). The only exception would be where the contacted organisation has their own standalone CASA approved under which they are doing the contracted work.
Sure, this case there isn't a safety concern but Qantas own audits of the subcontractor should be picking this kind of thing up. What if they're throwing bags like that into a 737 and cause some aircraft damage?
Even disregarding the legal responsibility, as a service provider, Qantas knows that any subbie not up to par is going to reflect poorly on them and affect sales (case in point, this occurrence).
@nigel deborah: In the linked news article they're already giving the line "we set guidlines for them to follow" Qantas is just going to try and throw them under the bus
@preddye: Hard disagree. I work in manufacturing and if we sub out anything and it doesn't meet requirements, customer comes to us. Customer doesn't care that we didn't do the uncompliant work - still our problem.
Now whether there's a cost impact to us depends on our agreement with the customer, and if we can pass any/all of that cost impact to our subbie depends on our agreement with the subbie. But ultimately our responsibility and our problem.
@jjjaar: I'd highly disagree with that. By paying for a flight with QANTAS I am entering into a contract with them and they are therefore responsible for handling my baggage. If they choose to outsource that service to someone else that's their business.
Now, say I'm one of the unfortunate passengers who's had their bag slammed as shown in the video and something has been damaged, that makes QANTAS responsible for the damage, atleast as far as my contract with them is concerned. If they refuse to compensate me I sue QANTAS, not Swissport for damages.
@Morphio25: I agree with you. As the customer, I don’t care who does what, my agreement is with Qantas.
My point was Qantas may try to reject full responsibility, despite that we all know they shouldn’t be able to.
@jjjaar: The thing is that Qantas should make the damaged person whole again, by paying compensation for those damages and then seek recovery of those damages from Swissport.
There are over 55+ different awards at QANTAS. Tells you a lot
For comparison, what’s Alan Joyce and his executive team’s re/award?
I think it's a great job they're doing there in baggage handling/bomb detection , to think they would search so thoroughly , hat's off .
Just hope they can automate this job soon with some kind of baggage woodchipper that shoots luggage into the aircraft .
Thanks Mr Joyce , doing a great job !
What a bunch of lowlives. Really, your mind would have to be in the gutter to behave in such a way.
ohh shit bruh some w@nker scratched my fully lowered VX commy on 20's with bubbled tint. I'll kill them if I find em.
Why are you making excused for them, that behaviour is not acceptable.
Like do you have a dollar amount that if you are paid under x you should break people's stuff and that should be okay because you are not paid enough, but if paid over y you should treat their stuff with reasonable care?
$80 to load luggage? WTH
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@wordplay: You'd be surprised at how much these eff-wits are getting. Lot higher than most would guess.
@wordplay: Hahahahahahahahahaha $80 an hour for a completely unskilled job, moving a piece of luggage from a plane to a little luggage truck?
@brendanm: Unskilled labourer's are paid around $80ph ($150k pa) working on Melbourne's West Gate tunnel project so I guess the same pay rate for a baggage handler is not out of bounds
@Ocker: Thanks to this forum post I checked the Swissport baggage handling ad and the job is paying $60k.
@Ocker: *citation required
Surely you wouldn't be exaggerating the pay, and then assuming $80hr, when in reality it's $28 an hour, plus overtime at time and a half, plus working at night loading, and the fact that they do 80 hours a week, not 40.
@brendanm: Security requirements for airport jobs actually mean not as many people are eligible to work there as you'd think…
$80 to load luggage? WTH
Waaayyy too much for a non skilled job
You don't offer more money to make these guys work better, they wont, you offer more money to attract people who care about the job and offer you the luxury of more people to pick form for the job when you inevitably have to fire someone for this kind of shit.
If you offer $22/h, what you are going to get is a lot of people saying, "(fropanity) that, I'm not doing that job for $22/h". So, your pool of candidates are the desperate, low skilled, low IQ section of the community.
If you offer $80/h, then what you get is people who care about the quality of their work thinking… "well, I can do this office job for $35/h OR I can go out and sling bags at the airport, not have to think and get $80/h". This nets two positives, you get people with more brain cells willing to apply, so they are usually more careful, but it increases the size of your employment pool when you have more people apply than what you need, allowing you to pick from the best and easily replace the morons at a moments notice.
I work in the middle of mining country, NSW, and the biggest contributor to employee stealing are the coal mines. Had a great group of ladies all working in childcare that I volunteered with, they are all now out driving trucks and getting $60/h (+penalty rates) + $10k sign on bonus and $10k/year retention bonus. They were all paid between $18~$25/h doing childcare.
I 100% know that you wouldn't do that job for $22/h, but I can sure as hell bet that if it was $80/h, you would "consider" it…
Old saying is; "Pay peanuts, get monkeys."
@pegaxs: Wait so all I have to do to get a monkey is use peanuts for payment? What have I been doing all my life? Lunch sorted.
Don’t accept the job if you aren’t happy with the terms of being paid $x to do XYZ.
@wordplay: While somewhat correct, also somewhat incorrect.
So many fields are desperate for staff, and many of these roles need no prior experience. If you’re actually a decent person, there’s a lot of opportunity out there for you
It’s the attitude of those in the video that has made them not have the luxury to turn down work. They clearly wouldn’t do well in anything customer facing. Or they could grow up, take things seriously and better things will come.
@wordplay: Thats the whole point, hourly rate isn't about how hard a job is, its about the skill and requirements necessary for the job. Moving bags, like stocking shelves, doesn't require much, if any training so I don't know what they expect. Just because you're earning minimum wage, doesn't mean you put in no effort. People in countries like Japan on minimum wage, which is probably less livable than here, still do their job well. It's a sense of entitlement Australians have where they think they deserve $100 an hour even though they have no skill.
If you don't have the luxury to turn down this sort of work, and you don't have the skill to pick up higher paying jobs, then unfortunately this is what you're worth. You go to work and you do your damn job.
@helpme: So called unskilled jobs often have more to them in terms of responsibilities and actual mental ability required than people think.
So called unskilled jobs often have more to them in terms of responsibilities and actual mental ability required than people think.
You're right, I'm sure there's more to this job than meets the eye.
@wordplay: If they don't have qualifications for anything else, then that's what they get, that's on them.
@brendanm: We need people to handle bags, we should set up training courses at tafe or universities in airport sciences so that people are better trained to do these sorts of jobs and then they can treat peoples luggage nicely and command a higher pay packet. These should be jobs that people are highly trained to do.
@brendanm: They need a livable wage, a nice and comfortable living. I don't think minimum wage provides that and the incentive to treat bags with respect and care. they should be very well remunerated if they do a good job.
I don't think minimum wage provides that and the incentive to treat bags with respect and care.
Again, I don't think it does in Japan either but they still do. They're still better off than being a baggage handler in Asia but they act like they're being paid as little.
@helpme: it looks like they can get upto 4million a year in japan!
why can't the poor aussie handlers get that sort of money, it would be great if we could pay them like that!
@helpme: That's because Japanese people actually have respect.
Can't compare Japan to Australia, we did originate as a convict colony. Lawlessness is core to our identity.
@wordplay: Adding "training" for unskilled jobs like this is the absolute dumbest thing that could be done - this is already an issue in a number of fields where degrees and training are needed but actually add no skills/value to the eventual work.
All that should have been done in this case is ensuring supervisors are checking up on employees and that these ones are immediately fired
Yeah someone put a gun to their head and made them take this job.
you seem to you know more about their wages. care to inform how much do these get paid on hourly basis.
Based on your posts you actually seem like a nice person, but your logic is waaaaay off. Getting paid min wage is never an excuse to intentially (profanity) someone else's property.
send bikies to throw em around, repeatedly
They've been doing this since airports have been around.
15 years ago BNE airport. I saw 2 idiot low life pieces of shit on one of those tow ute vehicles with no sides or top carrying out bags.
Driving about 20k/h idiot passenger can see the bags slowly sliding off. Waits till they do fall off then tells the driver to stop and back up. Then he slam dunks them back on to the tray.
Happened all bellow the smoking area side of Brisbane international terminal.
guess you kids are just new to airports/travel lol
Agree, in my opinion that video looked like a standard training video from an airport bagage handler orientation ..
If you're talking about Australia airports, maybe.
InB4: "iF tHeY dOnT LiKe ThE jOb, ThEy ShOuLd JuSt qUiT!!1!!1!!!"
But actually what is wrong with this suggestion?
I worked at colesworth. Hated it. Left. I wasn’t throwing peoples milk and bread into the bags like footballs because I wasn’t happy with the pay or work.
"iF tHeY dOnT LiKe ThE jOb, ThEy ShOuLd JuSt qUiT!!1!!1!!!"
Yeah, because I am sure that these guys apply for this job because they love it, not because they are too thick to get a job as a doctor.
There is nothing wrong with them quitting, but many of them cant, because they are usually low skilled and under-educated and cant just walk off and get a job elsewhere. It's a toxic relationship. The airport needs the cheapest workers they can get, and these are the types of people that need these jobs just to stay alive.
The airport cant sack them because there isn't a huge list of people lining up to work back breaking work for minimum wage and these workers cant quit, because it may be months before they can get another job doing the same menial shit for minimum wage, so the cycle continues.
Or how about this one (also seems to be an outrage agenda favorite);
"EvEn iF YoUsE pAiD 'Em MoAr, ThEy wOuLd sTiLL dO tHe SaMe tHiNg!!1!!!!1"…
These guys might, but if you offered better pay and conditions, you might get better quality people who want to take up doing the job (affording you the luxury of arseholing employees like these). If you pay the absolute minimum wage and work people like slaves in back breaking jobs, this is what you get… You get the low socioeconomic people that need a job, not the passionate people who want the job…
I often ask people who have this logic… "Would you do that job for how much they get paid??", and 100% of them say "no".
Alan Joyce gets millions of dollars a year in salary and bonuses and acts all "Surprised Pikachu" when his lowest paid staff start acting their wage…
And before you all get outraged and neg happy, I am not and have not at any point condoned the actions of the idiots, they deserve to be fired, but they are a product of the system that is a self perpetuating downward spiral.
You surely cannot actually recommend that people moving bags half a metre should be getting paid more than minimum wage? If they are "too thick" to get a job as a doctor, there are plenty of labouring jobs that pay more than this, the problem is that they would have to actually work, which these people likely don't want to do.
@brendanm: No, the current people doing it are paid minimum wage, and this is the quality of people you get applying for this position. They cant move a bag a metre without getting cranky about it. And therein lays the problem. Not many people want to do this job because of the type of work and the pay rate, so even if they sack these workers, the replacements will be the same…
Paying these guys more would not net you a better attitude from them, but offering more might bring in people who might actually give a shit about doing the job.
It wouldn't matter where these guys go to work, they would always have this attitude to work, but when the company that employs them only pays minimum wage for this type of work, these are the only type of people who will apply for these positions.
@pegaxs: Your suggestion to pay more for the role and therefore attract better candidates - won't this lead to the same result as just firing every employee who doesn't meet a minimum bar until you find someone that does?
If this company pays more for this role and others do the same to compete then you're in the same situation with a new higher minimum wage bar - deadbeats like this are still in the system and will still need to find work and there will still be good people who work for minimum wage who aren't complete garbage. Australia's minimum wage is really good - I'm not convinced we need to raise it further
@brendanm: Most Swissport airport employees do more than move the bags onto a conveyer. They have a number of safety critical responsibilities, including loading the aircraft (correct weight and balance), attaching air stairs/bridge (potential for aircraft damage), and aircraft towing (self explanatory).
It's a job which is definitely a few rungs above basic manual labour. That's why many at Qantas , including aircrew, were pissed when they outsourced it .
It’s not that they were doing their job poorly, but purposely slamming the bags. Complete disregard for other people’s belongings.
Everyone acting all surprised when the minimum wage, back breaking work labourers get sick of doing their job start doing a piss poor job of it.
Probably wouldn't be as back breaking if they didn't lift the luggage over their head and slam it down, or throw it so hard that it misses the belt and they have to pick it up again.
But yeah, sure mate.
Would you do their job for what they get paid? (To give you a hint, they are on between about $25 and $31/h.) My bet is "no", because you think it's shit, "back breaking" work for little to no pay.
And not back breaking? To be bent over at the waist all shift, getting into containers that are lower than head height to move bags around that are 20~30kg each? All while doing this in either stinking hot conditions, or freezing cold conditions where is it is dirty and dusty or pissing down rain, loud aircraft rolling in and out all day, being ridden by a jackarse boss because you are doing the job of 3 people because the boss cant find anyone else to work for shit pay to help you out…
So, "yeah, sure, champ." So long as you get your cheap tickets to Bali and Alan Joyce gets his ivory back scratcher allowance… I mean (fropanity) these guys, right? They should just be happy to have a job, right?
Willfully fail to do your job properly
Cry about how you should be paid more
Don't have the skills/intelligence to get a better job (you said this part, not me)
From the sounds of it, yeah they should be happy to have a job. Even you suggested that they're not capable of doing something higher paying. And the incident in question isn't them falling behind schedule due to unreasonable expectations or whatever (which I'd actually have sympathy for), it's about them going out of their way to mishandle luggage to increase risk of damage.
Would you do their job for what they get paid
No, because I don't have to. What does that have to do with anything mate?
So long as you get your cheap tickets to Bali and Alan Joyce gets his ivory back scratcher allowance
I don't set the prices that businesses offer, nor do I set the salary of people who work there.
You seem to have weird views on things.
They should just be happy to have a job, right?
They can always quit and do something else, or not have a job.
If I was qualified to do nothing else I would pounce on $30 an hour like a fat kid on a slice of cake.
Did you know that you don't have to comment on every thread in the forums, just for the sake of commenting?
You're making excuses for idiots that should be thankful to live in a first world country, be employed and paid a reasonable amount.
You are a bloody moron. There is never an excuse for this type of BS behaviour at work. Their arses should have been fired on the spot. There are plenty of people out there that would be more than happy to do this work in their place.
If you think the minimum wage in AU is too low, try getting a passport and traveling a little.
Meanwhile when we were in Japan a few weeks ago, all bags were arranged neatly on the carousel with the handles facing outwards so that it was easier for passengers to identify their bags and grab them without a fuss.
Knowing the Japanese, they've probably got it all automated, with robotic arms gently lifting and rotating every bag to the correct position.
Either way….thats impressive.
Low skilled job should all be automated. Automation is the key.No bias, no strike. Of course there will be breakdown but at least you know its fair.
Sure, AI had come a long way, so let’s start with yours - what do you do for a living?
I am a programmer. Certain part of the jobs are already automated and I gladly welcome it.
Yup, you have it coming from both - technology and o/s outsourcing - don’t envy you at all.
Agreed, manual processes should be automated to shift man power to more value adding jobs.
Combine automation with Minimum Basic Income for the jobless low skilled people.
I don't know what these people expect. You have no skill to do any other job, so you're getting paid minimum wage, which compared to a lot of other countries, for a job like this, is probably more than what it's actually worth. Nevertheless, once you accept a job, you do that said job and not be (profanity) wits. You think there aren't minimum wage workers in Japan? Yet you go there and it doesn't matter who you're dealing with, everyone is professional and does their job. These guys are just too bloody entitled and can't accept what they're actually worth.
Alot of people aren't skilled in their jobs and overpaid in this country.
I think you'll find more willing people to sit in an office on a computer, than a labour intensive job even if it paid much more.
bet they aren't even getting min wages from their contractor
I was expecting to see them actually slamming suitcases with an intention to break them. In the video there’s only one suitcase that appeared to be “slammed”. The rest are thrown.
For me this kind of thing is expected and not really surprising at all.
This is the perfect example of “Quick. Good. Cheap. Pick two.” Alan Joyce thinks he can get all three.
Geee….. what a shock… who'da ever thought…..
Like horses, rail tickets, checkout chicks, this needs solving with technology.
No one should be chucking heavy luggage.
Good ad for travelling light with carry on only
These workers deserve minimum wage.
Fire these guys immediately.
Cancel the contract with Swissport.
If they aren't happy with their job they would have been smashing them down with a pissed off look on their face.
These Monkeys looked like they were enjoying it.
Monkeys like this. If they won 10 Million on Powerball Lotto today they'd have more debit and stress this time next year and would have lost everything.
If you doubled their pay 2 weeks latter they'd be back suit case smashing again .
Why do you think there are still ads on media about drinking and taking drugs when your pregnant.
Still, pay peanuts - get monkeys.
How much would a baggage handler make prior to Qantas outsourcing?
I’m glad there wasn’t video of how I used to handle your electronics…
Seeing as Qantas don't employ these people all they will do is make a lot of statements of concern and wring their hand but at the end of the day do absolutely nothing. They have outsourced nearly every aspect of their business except top management. Dont me started on Jetstar…cancelled flights, last minute charges at the counter because they cannot see what you paid for at the website. A complete joke and i avoid them at all costs.
It's quite sad how people STILL fly with Qantas even though they've done all this stuff. They've cut so many staff from all levels and outsourced them, and their current stuff like engineers are overworked all because Joyce wants a fatter bonus at the end of the year because his multimillion dollar bonus cheque isn't enough for that greedy little (profanity). That bloody leprechaun has destroyed a national icon and people who fly with Qantas are essentially subsidising his million-dollar lifestyle.
That's pretty shocking. Were they actual Qantas staff or a subcontractor that does baggage handling for them?