The Sale of Illicit Tobacco in Australia. Who to Blame?

Ridiculous Panda on 08/12/2022 - 23:05

I noticed lately a lot of people have cigarettes meant to be sold overseas. You can easily tell by the colourful packaging.

I am also a smoker, but buying this illicit tobacco just feels wrong. Of course, there is no tax paid on these smuggled cigarettes. So the government will have to take care of these smokers when they get sick, yet they contribute nothing towards that and it will be other tax payers’ money spent for their medical expenses.

Today, I went into a tobacconist and saw people in front of me buying these. The guy just reached to the cabinet underneath the register and brought out a couple of cartons and sold it to them. They are not even trying to hide it anymore. They didn’t care about the presence of other customers and I am sure they’d just sell it to anyone who asks. Same case with a couple of other shops I have been to recently.

Is the government partially at fault for making legal tobacco ridiculously expensive and thus making this business lucrative?

Would you report such an activity and if yes, to whom?

General Discussion Tobacco

Comments

    • Ridiculous Panda on 08/12/2022 - 23:16
      +5

      What I smoke overseas is about 1% of what I smoke. And for many, that be 0%. I don’t really see your point.

      Also, obesity will be our topic next week.

      • [Deactivated] on 08/12/2022 - 23:24
        -1

        My point is that next time you bring more than allowed cheap fags with you to Australia by stuffing them into luggage of your non-smoker friends and family members you should declare them and pay all required taxes. Only after that you can complain about others.

        • crentist on 09/12/2022 - 01:47
          +2

          That's your point? Moralising over some irrelevant and inconsequential story you just made up?

    • Buttocks on 09/12/2022 - 08:05
      -1

      I became obese when I gave up smoking

  • bobbified on 08/12/2022 - 23:11
    +6

    Is the government partially at fault for making legal tobacco ridiculously expensive and thus making this business lucrative?

    Who else has control of these ridiculous prices other than the government? But then again, cigarettes here were already much more expensive compared to other countries before the huge increases in tax.

    The government already knew the illicit market would grow, but the additional money they bring in from increased taxes far outweighs the amount they could potentially lose.

  • try2bhelpful on 08/12/2022 - 23:31

    Why didn’t you just report the store? If people didn’t get away with selling them then you reduce the problem. If you walk past this sort of thing then you are to blame as well.

    • Ridiculous Panda on 08/12/2022 - 23:50
      1. Not in my nature to dob
      2. Wouldn’t know who to report to

      Hence the post.

      • try2bhelpful on 09/12/2022 - 00:34
        +16

        Why bother to bring this up if you aren’t prepared to do anything about it.

        https://www.ato.gov.au/General/The-fight-against-tax-crime/O…

        There is a number to dial to report places that are selling it.

        • try2bhelpful on 09/12/2022 - 08:13
          +1

          I get negged for speaking the truth and providing a link. OK then.

        • Ridiculous Panda on 09/12/2022 - 08:36

          Was hoping to learn from the community what everyone felt about this and whether I should do something about it. Having read the replies so far, I don’t think I would.

          • try2bhelpful on 09/12/2022 - 09:01
            +9

            @Ridiculous Panda: So you have outsourced your conscience to a bunch of random people on the internet.

            What they are doing is, clearly, illegal. They are selling products that could be adulterated with anything. They are avoiding taxes that society needs to provide things like hospitals. The reason they are doing this so, blatantly, is because they don’t think anyone will report them. Don’t whine about crime if you refuse to do anything about it.

      • apple2016 on 09/12/2022 - 11:47
        +2

        Not in my nature to dob

        This is the problem. Just ignoring the problem wont make it go away!

  • randomusername2017 on 08/12/2022 - 23:33

    Where do you stand on local home grown tobacco sales?…..

    • Ridiculous Panda on 08/12/2022 - 23:50
      +3

      To be totally honest, I didn’t even know it was a thing. But I’d say ok for own use. Just like brewing your own beer.

  • Nalar on 09/12/2022 - 00:16
    +1

    100% the gov't, but not for putting prices up, it's for doing so little to squash the imports. There seems to be an issue between State Police and Federal Tax enforcement.

    There are legit criminal groups involved in these sales, but sadly coke, ice and pills gets all the funding.

  • cookie2 on 09/12/2022 - 00:24
    +3

    Cigarettes are cigarettes. The gov gets enough tax money from all of us in general and most of the cigarette tax they get, doesn't even go back to supporting smoking cessation aiss. Home grown should be legal.

  • afoveht on 09/12/2022 - 00:50
    +9

    I'm an ex-smoker and wouldn't want to touch one again with a 10ft pole - hate the things - any of my kids taking up smoking would be a massive disappointment - I wish cigs would just disappear. But these taxes are so unfair. IME those least able to afford it are most often addicted.

    I have no solution - continued persuasion through education I suppose - but it's no surprise people are looking for alternatives.

    • CheapskateQueen on 09/12/2022 - 21:35

      ex smoker here too. i think NZ has the right idea and hopefully it actually gets implemented

  • ShannonN on 09/12/2022 - 01:35
    +3

    while you are talking about duty free imports I think. there has been a black market in tobacco for years already here IF you the smoker are prepared to smoke and roll your own.

    That's why the tax and excise ppl are always cracking down on it, to recover the lost revenue

    Cigarettes are addictive I smoked for many years then said no more 40 years ago took me a whole week to stop never smoked since and I was a 2 pkt a day smoker.

    The government should stop the manufacture of cigarettes to help the addict, yes Virginia cigarettes are an addictive drug. But they make shitloads out of it same as alcohol addictive. The only way to deal with it is treat the addict after the habit becomes too bad.

    Imagine some time soon separate rooms for smokers to all congregate and inhale together OOPs already there designated outdoor areas at shopping centres

    Best solution is raise the price 100 fold so no one can afford them

  • ECE on 09/12/2022 - 05:25

    Dan Andrews

  • Montyjpm on 09/12/2022 - 05:39
    -1

    OP: "Who to blame?" - You!

    Stop smoking and this problem will disappear.

  • AustriaBargain on 09/12/2022 - 06:53
    +1

    Don't worry, lung cancer will get them in the end.

    • cookie2 on 09/12/2022 - 07:11
      +2

      And all the maccas, kfc and dominoes loving people will be gotten by heart disease and the plethora of other illnesses caused by bad diet. And the alcohol drinkers the same.

      • AustriaBargain on 09/12/2022 - 07:18
        +1

        You can look forward to spending your twilight years in a retirement home filled with teetotaling, veggie munching vapers.

  • Dorge on 09/12/2022 - 07:31
    +2

    Australia, prison colony mentality at its best.
    Restrict, enforce, punish.
    Soon you'll be arrested on the street for an smoke.
    The excuse that a smoker costs more to the taxpayer to due to sickness does not hold up. Anything that causes people to die early in there 50-70s rather than 80-90s reduces Gov expenditure. Less pensioners to take care of.

    • Nalar on 09/12/2022 - 15:53
      +1

      Problem is gov't will spend $500K trying to saving that 50 yr old smoker

  • EightImmortals on 09/12/2022 - 07:54

    Lols.

    "I am also a smoker, but buying this illicit tobacco just feels wrong."

    Why?

    Are you concerned about the quality and safety or the product or that you are doing something the politicians have told you not to? If the former, fair enough, if the latter then use it as an opportunity for some self examination.

    "Of course, there is no tax paid on these smuggled cigarettes. "

    Who cares?

    "So the government will have to take care of these smokers when they get sick, yet they contribute nothing towards that and it will be other tax payers’ money spent for their medical expenses."

    Do you believe that all the taxation taken from tobacco sales gets spent on health care for tobacco smokers?
    Do you not think that those same people pay way too much tax on everything else (we all do) so that government could afford to make Australia a utopia if they didn't waste most of it? Government neither needs nor deserves to steal any more money from the population and even a cursory glance at their wastage should convince you of that.

    "Is the government partially at fault for making legal tobacco ridiculously expensive and thus making this business lucrative?"

    What do you mean 'partially'? Who else is putting taxes on things?

    "Would you report such an activity and if yes, to whom?"

    No. Is the seller holding a gun to their customers and demanding they buy their products? If the filth shuts down that seller will they then become a burden on the public purse because you have caused the demise of their income? Wouldn't that be ironic for someone who is so concerned about the governments tax revenue. :) Will their customers simply go to the next seller? The free (statists call it the 'black market')market exists because of political restrictions on things that people want to buy with their own money. I am not a dirty snitch and unless I saw someone committing a real crime with a real victim I would NEVER rat anyone out to government. You should be ashamed for even having the thought.

    FTR I am not a smoker and never have been. :)

  • mapax on 09/12/2022 - 08:00

    Saw a guy buy 2 packs of cigarettes at coles the other day, >$120!

    • EightImmortals on 09/12/2022 - 08:01
      +1

      Crikey!
      I'd be looking at other option too at that level of extortion.

    • dust on 09/12/2022 - 10:38
      +1

      Smoking is definitely not OzBargain friendly.

  • pegaxs on 09/12/2022 - 08:01
    -1

    Smokers are the blame. If you all gave up the shitty habit, there would be no market for grey market illegal cigarettes…

    And you don’t know, that shop may have paid the excise on those cigarettes, but they still buy them stupidly cheap overseas, so may still make a profit on them.

    • EightImmortals on 09/12/2022 - 08:57
      +2

      Yeah nah. Government is to blame. If everyone stopped smoking tomorrow they'd just turn their evil eye to something else people want to do.

      • try2bhelpful on 09/12/2022 - 09:05

        Whatever, mate. I watched my mother die of lung cancer. It was six weeks from the time we knew she was sick to her dying. If people want to die in agony to make people who create, and push, cigarettes rich then they are idiots. The least the Government can do is get their cut. Hopefully expensive cigarettes stops kids smoking.

        • EightImmortals on 09/12/2022 - 09:10
          +1

          I'm not saying smoking isn't bad. But in the end it was your mum's choice to smoke. If they banned smoking on the basis of it's bad for your health then logically they could extend that to booze and especially junk food. As bad for our health as all of those things are IMO taking away peoples choice to do those things and hopefully learn their own lessons and grow from it is far worse as we can already see by looking at most people who are products of the nanny state. Do you really want to live in that world? I don't.

          • bobbified on 09/12/2022 - 09:51
            +1

            @EightImmortals: If they banned smoking, they'll definitely be looking for ways to plug that huge hole in the budget - I think you're right about alcohol and junk food being the next target.

          • try2bhelpful on 09/12/2022 - 15:49
            +2

            @EightImmortals: Except that the smoking industry kept a lot of the data hidden that their product was causing cancer. My mother was pretty smart, in a lot of ways, but smoking was a seriously stupid thing to do. Also my parents smoked at home and in the car, even though my brother was a severe asthmatic. There are, certainly, issues with passive smoking. You don’t get health problems from someone else’s obesity.

            Frankly I don’t want to live in a world where people use right wing tropes like “nanny state” but I don’t get a choice. It is like the nonsense with road rules. When I was a kid the Victorian road toll was over 1,000 dead people per year. Despite the number of drivers greatly increasing the death toll is, now, about 1/3 that. Having lost a brother in a motor bike accident I think nobody should have to go through that pain. Bring on the nanny state so that people are given the best chance to live to a healthy old age. If you want it all about the individual then there is a lot of Australia you can live where people won’t bother you.

      • CrowReally on 09/12/2022 - 09:12
        +1

        Conspiracy theorist comes to conclusion it's the fault of the government, film at 11.

  • BewareOfThe Dog on 09/12/2022 - 08:45
    +1

    Bikies.

  • dasher86 on 09/12/2022 - 10:31
    +2

    The sale of illicit tobacco in Australia

    the Government and their laws.

    It wouldn't be illicit otherwise.

  • dust on 09/12/2022 - 10:38

    Did you ask how much the illicit tobacco was?

    • Ridiculous Panda on 09/12/2022 - 12:27
      +1

      About $20 for a 20 pack. A bit more or less depending on the brand.

  • pharkurnell on 09/12/2022 - 10:52

    The guy just reached to the cabinet underneath the register and brought out a couple of cartons

    You might be shocked that shops are doing this with far worse shit than tobacco…

  • Sammy2000 on 09/12/2022 - 11:16
    +3

    Please post as a bargain.

  • doctordv8 on 10/12/2022 - 12:10
    +1

    Everyone involved in this or any Illegal activity is to blame, plus anyone who sees it happen…and does nothing to report it to the Police.

    You did report this to the Police….didn't you?

    If not…why not?

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