Buyer Requiring a Stat Dec to Buy a Car

lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 15:07
Last edited 10/01/2023 - 11:46

Read edit 2 for ending

Hi scam watch,

I'm selling a car in the 20's price range.

Buyer seems keen, using money from a car he has just written off. He has been a bit picky, wanting photos of all the cars details and papers claiming wife is a cop. All good.

Now he needs a loan to make up the difference, and requires me to sign a statutory declaration that I am selling him the car on a set date etc. This is a requirement from the bank. My problem is, the car he wrote off is the exact same year, model and colour as the one I am selling, the loan can't be more than 5k or so. Would a bank really require a stat Dec from me to then give him the 5k or whatever it is?

Could this be some elaborate scam to switch the vins or with a stat Dec claim that it was sold and I lost the money, just a few too many red flags.

Thanks ozb.

Edit1. Gave him the stat Dec, nothing concrete has come up. I'll be the scam sacrificial guinea pig.

Edit2: well it was all fine, cheque came through and the transaction went smoothly, we did at the bank and did the paper work after the check was deposited. seemed like I overreacted. I'm not saying that there isn't a flaw here but for me, a statutory declaration for the sale was a legitimate requirement from his bank(p&n bank)

Automotive

Comments

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 05/01/2023 - 15:11
    +21

    Bro just move on unless you’re really in a rush to offload

    • HeWhoKnows on 06/01/2023 - 12:29
      -1

      Yep, short answer is NO!

  • SlowCarSlow on 05/01/2023 - 15:21
    +12

    Too much weird stuff going on, just leave it, the next buyer will be a breeze. It's not your responsibility to assist them finding finance.

  • spackbace on 05/01/2023 - 15:23
    +2

    I wonder if he's using one as the donor car for the other one

    • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 15:40
      +1

      He might as well pawn the other one and use this then, it's a good car, low k's, neat and tidy.

  • Miss B on 05/01/2023 - 15:24
    +3

    I'm not too sure, but you could probably include something like blah blah blah will sell the car to John Doe on x date, "subject to the sum of $xxxxx being received and cleared prior to the vehicle being transferred to their name."

    I don't know too much about it, but I know my bank would only provide me with a loan if I went through a dealer, so it is possible their financier will only provide funds for a sale through a private seller with the stat dec, regardless of the cost. If it's a secured loan, I'm not sure it would make any difference what the amount was, if they're not being sold the vehicle there's no security for the loan.

    • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 15:39

      Ok, so there is some valid reason for a bank to require something for a cash only gumtree car. Thanks for your perspective. I have a home loan so just redraw on that, I'm unsure about loans where you don't have capital.

  • AndyC1 on 05/01/2023 - 15:33
    +1

    Ring the local cop shop and verify wife work there. If she does not then RUN.

    Say that to do the work you will need to be paid $60 extra per hour that it takes and this includes all of the time including responding to previous requests/info already supplied. Say you want to be paid for the existing time before continuing as you have already spent X hrs and do not want to spend more time on it, unless the seller pays up for time and effort.

    • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 15:37

      He did offer a deposit, a show of good faith I guess, I think I'm over reacting haha

      • elgrande on 05/01/2023 - 19:32
        +1

        So your saying you gave him copies of the paperwork, a signed stat dec and you have not yet received anything?

        Not hard for him to transfer the rego into his name now?

        If his wife really was a cop, she could get all the info she needs from the rego number alone.. she also should not be using her access for this reason.

        I'd be very wary OP.

        • lew380 on 06/01/2023 - 10:20

          Well if he doesn't pay, and I don't also transfer the rego, then he will still have to come and steal it and he wont be ahead in anything.

  • offthetap on 05/01/2023 - 15:38
    +3

    to hard basket. next

    • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 15:41

      Fair call, decent offers are few and far between, I'm too tempted to just cut and run.

  • oscargamer on 05/01/2023 - 15:42
    +1

    Just no. Since when does a bank need anything from a seller to loan money to the buyer?

    • bobbified on 05/01/2023 - 15:48
      +4

      For a secured loan, the bank needs to be sure that the asset is owned by the borrower.

      • oscargamer on 05/01/2023 - 18:21
        +1

        Yes, of course, which has nothing to do with the seller……

        • bobbified on 05/01/2023 - 20:26
          +3

          It does - the bank wants to make sure that the borrower hasn't simply put a random person's car as security and that the actual owner has sold it. The seller can't then make a claim on the car if the bank needs to sell it to recover their money.

          • oscargamer on 05/01/2023 - 20:35

            @bobbified: OP says bank "requires (OP) to sign a statutory declaration that I am selling him the car on a set date" has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the proposed buyer becoming the owner for any longer than two intakes of breath. Buyer could sell the car 10 mins later …. and the bank has no security at all.

            It's a BS post or a BS buyer.

            • bobbified on 05/01/2023 - 20:37

              @oscargamer: It's part of the loan process.

              You're right that the seller can sell it off straight after, but then the bank won't transfer the loan amount to him.

              • oscargamer on 05/01/2023 - 20:37

                @bobbified: How would the bank know?

                • bobbified on 05/01/2023 - 20:39

                  @oscargamer: That's what the deposit is for. It's the same thing with a dealer. You leave a deposit and then when the paperwork is done, the bank sends the money directly to the dealer. There's nothing stopping the dealer from selling it to someone else.

                  See this under 'How Can I Get Secured Finance To Buy A Car From A Private Seller?'

                  • oscargamer on 05/01/2023 - 20:46

                    @bobbified: A sale agreement (as per your link), is not a stat dec. They are VERY different beasts.

                    And where did the OP talk about a deposit?

                    • bobbified on 05/01/2023 - 20:52

                      @oscargamer: I thought I read something about a deposit earlier this morning, but I'm obviously mistaken.

                      Not sure if OP has actually taken a deposit, but i definitely would ask for one (if I was a seller) to hold the car for the loan process.

                      Nevertheless, a 'stat dec' can be the 'sales agreement' (the terms are not exactly the same but often used interchangeably) and is part of the bank's loan process.

                      • oscargamer on 05/01/2023 - 20:57

                        @bobbified: No. Simply wrong.

                        A stat dec is one persons declaration that something is true and correct. It is most definitely not an agreement between two parties that requires both parties to undertake / perform anything whatsoever.

                        • bobbified on 05/01/2023 - 21:03

                          @oscargamer: And what's wrong with declaring that you "intend to sell this vehicle to this person on this date for this price. The title will be transferred upon receipt of payment"?

                          It's a true and correct statement isn't it? Is that a stat dec or a sale agreement?

                          • oscargamer on 05/01/2023 - 21:06
                            +1

                            @bobbified: You linked to a page that talked about a sale agreement.

                            A stat dec is not an agreement.

                            There is nothing 'wrong', per se, with writing a stat dec as you describe, but IT IS NOT AN AGREEMENT. That's my point. A bank cannot enforce a stat dec. They could assist the buyer in enforcing an agreement.

                            • lew380 on 06/01/2023 - 10:24

                              @oscargamer: The buyer did offer a deposit multiple times, I have not yet taken it but I acknowledge that it means he is keen. I should have taken it, that would make things a bit clearer.

                            • SlickMick on 06/01/2023 - 10:24

                              @oscargamer: I think you'd find that the bank will put a mortgage (or whatever it's called) on the vehicle, and is this purchaser were to try to sell it, the next buyer would see that they will be also purchasing a loan commitment.

                              So the stat dec is sufficient evidence that there will be a vehicle to "mortgage" once the sale goes through and the loan is issued.

            • Jackamo on 07/01/2023 - 15:30

              @oscargamer: The bank would register the car on PPSR, it can't be sold until the loan has been repaid in full.

  • 87percent on 05/01/2023 - 15:44
    +2

    Should the wife be using her powers to be looking up the details on a car??

    • Domingo on 05/01/2023 - 16:15

      Where does anyone say that happened?

      • 87percent on 05/01/2023 - 16:20

        He has been a bit picky, wanting photos of all the cars details and papers claiming wife is a cop

        Why else would the seller be asking for this?

        • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 16:33

          I guess that's a perk of being a cop, how ethical it is is another thing.

        • Domingo on 05/01/2023 - 17:01
          +5

          Why else would the seller be asking for this?

          Because when you're buying an asset you should do your diligence and protect yourself? I'd certainly appreciate evidence confirming details of the vehicle and proof of ownership/finance/registration etc.

          Mentioning that his wife is a cop might just be a heavy handed suggestion to not scam him, or a way of saying that the buyer knows the process well and wants everything done to the letter of the law.

  • holdenmg on 05/01/2023 - 15:47
    +1

    There are plenty of buyers out there.

    • TEER3X on 05/01/2023 - 16:43
      +3

      Would have already sold it if that were true

      More like there are plenty of tyre kickers out there

    • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 17:26

      Seems to be every dealer in Australia has called me for a 50% off deal (for them). Actual buyers seem to just prefer to overpay at a dealer for peace of mind, I'm trying to split the difference. 2 grand less than what these things go for in a dealership seems ok to me. But it's been several weeks and this is my only decent offer, my patience has a limit.

      • Tomhaigh1 on 06/01/2023 - 16:30

        100% scam, run away.

        • Tomhaigh1 on 06/01/2023 - 19:49

          Saw your edit, sorry, I also overreacted :D

  • bobbified on 05/01/2023 - 15:47
    +2

    I don't get it. You're not making a false stat dec or anything. If he can come up with the cash to buy it and that cash is actually bring transferred by the bank with the correct paperwork, then who cares.

    For car loans, especially where it's secured, the bank needs more paperwork.

    The fact that it's exact model etc doesn't really matter.

    • freefall101 on 05/01/2023 - 16:18
      +5

      Because it's weird. Banks don't usually require stat decs for buying a car privately, you get preapproval, sign a contract subject to finance, docs go to bank who send the money to the vendor. Adding "it's ok, my wife is a cop" just makes it weirder.

      First thing that comes to mind is buyer gets stat dec to prove purchase of car, gets money from bank and pisses off. Thanks to OP signing the stat dec, car now has debt against it and someone will try repossess the car. Even though it's a pretty shitty plan, it would create a headache for OP even if it doesn't work because it might create a PPSR on the car making it harder to sell.

      When it comes to large transactions, don't do anything out of the ordinary.

      • Domingo on 05/01/2023 - 17:03
        +1

        Good call - perhaps OP should ask who the bank is and if they can confirm the requirement with the bank directly, as it seems to be out of the ordinary.

      • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 17:42

        That's fair, I think that's a slight chance but it is just a stat Dec, surely they wouldn't demand that I pay the debt that wasn't honoured in the first place. If this is a scam I think it's starting to get very unlikely, certainly an uncommon scam from the comments so far.

      • bobbified on 05/01/2023 - 20:34
        +1

        If the borrower gets an unsecured loan, then the bank won't need anything from the seller. The borrower supplies application details and the bank transfers the money to their account and they do whatever they want with it. But unsecured loans come with higher interest rates because it's higher risk.

        For a secured loan that generally comes with a lower interest rate, the bank requires the asset as security - therefore requires confirmation. In this case, the bank usually pays the seller directly (whatever the loan amount is).

        See this under 'How Can I Get Secured Finance To Buy A Car From A Private Seller?'

        • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 22:39

          This makes sense, the buyer did mention that the bank would issue the check. I was wondering if transferring money would incur delays but once the bank are happy, they can just print a shiny check. Thanks for doing the research.

  • loropy9 on 05/01/2023 - 17:05
    +2

    OP, I don't know anything about write off cars, buying and selling cars etc, but the fact the write off car is exactly the same as your car, the guy mentions his wife being a cop which seems inappropriate for the occasion, the stat dec requirement, I get a feeling that you should run. I would.
    It seems like this guy has already sold you a story with too much detail. You shouldn't be entangled in someone's matters when selling something. All you need to know is whether he has $20K or not. Anything else seems like he is priming you so that he could achieve something more than just buying your car. Question is, do you want to find out what his plan is the hard way?

  • Harold Halfprice on 05/01/2023 - 17:46
    +2

    I would take any advice from people on here about buying and selling cars with a grain of salt - I've seen some crazy advice from people who clearly don't have a clue.

    I can understand the hesitancy in your situation, I'd probably be a little cautious too cause it seems a tad strange. However, at the same time I don't really see an issue with a stat dec saying you intend to sell the car on X date, pending receipt of X amount of money etc.

    If it were me, I'd explain to him that this seems a little odd to you and you're not familiar with banks needing stat decs - but ask him to forward an email from the bank requesting a stat dec and the details required. If he's legitimate he shouldn't have any issues there.

    Him asking for lots of photos and paperwork isn't anything strange though - especially if he's trying to get a loan on the car. Some buyers are also diligent because some sellers are dodgy - works both ways.

    • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 17:51

      Thanks, Yea I'm starting to think my initial concern was unfounded, the stat Dec unhonoured won't get me in too much hot water. I sent him the stat Dec already.

      • elgrande on 05/01/2023 - 19:36

        When is he actually buying the car? Be sure to provide an update.

        • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 22:35
          +1

          Tomorrow apparently, Will do, tears or laughter.

      • oscargamer on 05/01/2023 - 20:48

        So if he decides to not buy the car, have you breached your statutory declaration ?

  • easternculture on 05/01/2023 - 20:36
    +1

    Hope you put your VIN number on the stat dec

  • oscargamer on 05/01/2023 - 21:00

    Where this is going to end up, is that the 'buyer' is going to transfer ownership of the OP's car on or after the stat dec sale date, into the buyers name. The buyer will then sell the car to some other poor smuck, who will pay money and end up with a car that wasn't the seller's to sell, effectively handling/receiving stolen goods or even theft.

    OP - you have been warned and you will likely be in the poo on or after the date you have put in your stat dec.

    • lew380 on 05/01/2023 - 23:04
      +2

      I'm confused, the buyer will get the car after the bank check clears, it won't leave my sight till I see $$$ in my account. What he does after that is on him.

      Money has been transfered and paper work, at least on my end will be sent off and conplete.

    • kiitos on 06/01/2023 - 08:43

      I don't understand how that would work.

      • oscargamer on 06/01/2023 - 11:49

        The buyer will use the stat dec to transfer the car into his name. He will then clone the newly transferred cars id onto his written off car (which isn't written off, it's stolen). He will then sell the stolen car which has the op's cars id.

        There will then be 2 cars on the same plates, one being the op's.

        I could be wrong, but it smells like a cloning matter.

        • lew380 on 06/01/2023 - 17:15

          Happy ending for me. What you describe is elaborate but perhaps possible, paperwork and signatures on a sheet of paper are a weak system really.

  • Sinnerator on 06/01/2023 - 08:36

    Ask for his lender's details and call them. If he goes all funny then its a scam. Otherwise call.

    • lew380 on 06/01/2023 - 10:26

      That's a good idea, if a check doesn't materialise today, I will go this route.

  • whatthecrappin on 06/01/2023 - 09:19
    +1

    I recently bought a car and paid cash. had to withdraw the money from my savings account, but had to jump through hoops just to get it! Turns out, the banks are strict now due to scammers and they were just trying to protect me. I had to provide a signed deposit, vehicle PPS, proof I had sighted the vehicle etc. theyre doing that to ensure - me as the buyer - was involved in a legitimate transaction and not getting scammed as its difficult (impossible) to get cash back

    Once they saw that I had done my due diligence, it wasnt a problem, but it appears to be the norm these days.

    • 2esc on 06/01/2023 - 10:33

      What if you want to get your cash out to stick under the mattress? Or put it all on horse 5 in race 2 they cant stop you.

      • elgrande on 06/01/2023 - 13:16

        Yeah sounds a bit odd. A signed stat dec that you intend to put it through the pokies..

        • lew380 on 06/01/2023 - 17:11

          Haha

  • SimbaGirl on 06/01/2023 - 09:53
    +1

    What year is the car you're selling? Some banks will have an age limit on the car being purchased if it's to be used as security for a loan - for CBA, the car can only be up to 5 years old, Westpac I think is less than 7 years, whereas NAB and ANZ no longer have secured personal loans so the car wouldn't be used for security with them. Lots of different banks out there of course these day though. Not sure about the stat dec thing either for a personal loan through a bank, seems rather odd. I'd definitely be wary about this buyer. .

    • lew380 on 06/01/2023 - 10:27
      +1

      It's a 2018, so by the big banks, it can be used as security.

  • Mark1159 on 06/01/2023 - 16:16

    I’m following. Sound sus.
    Outcome?

    • lew380 on 06/01/2023 - 17:11
      +1

      Happy ending, see edit 2 above.

  • Tomhaigh1 on 06/01/2023 - 16:34
    -1

    It sounds like a scam, and you can call me racist, but are you dealing with a Lebanese bloke?

    • lew380 on 06/01/2023 - 17:05

      Have you had a similar issue? Not the same guy, this guy's check came through.

      • Tomhaigh1 on 06/01/2023 - 18:31
        -1

        Not sure if its similar, but one of my acquaintance got scammed by below technique.

        "Just few days ago my friend bought a car from marketplace. He paid $6000 for Honda Civic car by cash payment. The seller sent a message that he received full amount in cash. The issue was they just filled a form for notice of disposal & when we went to SERVICE NSW, they informed that the seller was not owner. After this incident, we tried to contact that party but they didn't show any minimum response. Still they didn't do disposal for this car.
        Another thing is In advertise they mentioned it's 2009 car but service nsw declared it's 2008 car. They sold this car with many issues. "

  • jackspratt on 06/01/2023 - 19:13
    +2

    I hope the bank carefully chequed the check.

    • GrueHunter on 07/01/2023 - 11:09
      +1

      Thanks granddad, your delusional determination to petrify a language whose principal strength is its ability to evolve is the only thing preventing the total decline of Western civilisation.

      • Hangryuman on 07/01/2023 - 11:40

        username cheques out - 'delusional determination to petrify' - nice creativity there - that's the first time I've seen that combination of wordz

      • Guybrush57 on 07/01/2023 - 11:59
        +2

        Yes. We should all use the wrong words and inconsistently random spellings from now on. That will ensure everyone is on the same page.

        • sharkie0123 on 07/01/2023 - 13:01

          But if we are always inconsistent with spelling wrongly wouldn't that mean we are consistent

      • jackspratt on 07/01/2023 - 12:06
        +1

        Mi pleazure, sunnyboi.

  • Brick Tamland on 07/01/2023 - 13:46
    +1

    Bit late to the party but yeah the buyers finance company can ask for quite a few things. I recently sold a car and had to sign a whole bunch of forms and provide proof to the financier that I owned the car.

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