Fights Broken out between Tiktok Guys and Parents at The Park

Witnessed a fight this morning, apparently some would be Tiktok guys was doing filming in a public park, however some parents having a birthday party not far away was not happy that the tiktok people was filming in their direction and was worried they will appear in the tiktok once their filming are finished.

Words got exchanged and it got physical, one of the filming guy was shouting this is a free country and we can film on public land, and the other parents was shouting back not if you are filming and have us in the video.

Interested in your thoughts on this, who is right and who is wrong here? Does the parents needs to give consent here? Or does the tiktok guys right about filming in public space? (Parks, walkways, etc)

There is alot of walking tours on YouTube, basically people with a 4k camera walking slowly and doing filming while at it. Some videos captures hundreds of people in it, does consent needed for these people?

Poll Options

  • 53
    1: Tiktok guys have the rights to film by law despite been aholes
  • 154
    2: parents have right to ask them stop as it's in a public park
  • 536
    3: Filming in public space is allowed

Comments

    • +3

      The key word here is “commercial”, not just “posting online” for social points.

      If you found yourself in the background of a viral tiktok and you’re not ok with it, I would encourage seeking legal advice, but I would assume that you would still have to prove they made commercial gain from the distribution of that specific footage, before actually having a legal way to have the footage removed.

      • +1

        Interesting, thanks for sharing your knowledge

      • +1

        The key word here is “commercial”, not just “posting online” for social points.

        Not really - if you're in public, there's no expectation of privacy so there's no legal basis to prevent someone videoing you. The news is a classic example - especially when people leave court. It's obvious that they strongly-oppose being videoed, but they can't do anything about it because they're in public.

    • What if their TikTok account is not monetised?

      • A even better question would be what if it's not monetised now but becomes monetised in the future?

    • This isn’t true. Council parks may have bylaws that seek fees from people using them to film (and you’ll find this generally starts applying when the tripods come out and they start closing sections of the park for filming), but it’s not illegal because it’s blanket legal to film anyone visible from any public place. (Exceptions for doing it for indecent purposes).

      Whether a council seeks fees for people filming is up to the individual council. In 99.999999% of instances Tik Tok isn’t likely to be regarded as commercial, because almost no one gets any money from it, they’re all just trying to get popular enough to make money off that elsewhere.

      They’re just as much not going to charge people for filming their kids birthday and uploading it on Facebook. There’s zero difference.

  • +3

    1+2+3 are all accurate

    They do have the right to film despite being an ahole.
    the parents have the right to ask them to stop, but not the legal impetus to force them to stop
    filming in public spaces are allowed.

    So yes to all of the above.

    • -4

      Still sux to see random people can post without permission though

      • +3

        Do you think the permission thing should apply to protesters beating up cops on the news (or vice versa)? Convicted rapists/killers on their way out of the court building?

        Haven’t we all had our parents/friends say something like “you’re wearing that out in public!?!? The whole world will see!!”

    • -2

      The issue isn't about the filming in a public space,
      but more about uploading footage
      of the said public space, onto private corporate space
      (watering down data retention laws act retroactively too)

  • +1

    If the parents really wanted to stop the filming they could had started stripping or something which would make it indecent filming:

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/man-films-couples-x-rated-display-…

  • +1
    • filming in public is allowed, no one can make someone stop filming in public if you are in the background.
    • you can request your faces to be blurred. If you've made this request and can prove it and they do not comply with that request and it's posted online, you can lodge a complaint and have it reviewed by the oaic.

    Usually the effort of blurring or how it makes the video look would cause them to stop. So if you really want to stop them, tell them you want the faces blurred and they will probably just wait until you're gone.

    Same goes with border control, RBT and all those tv shows. They'll tell you they have a legal right to record in public or have permission to in the airport you can tell them you want your face blurred. It makes for bad tv so you probably won't be on the show. Remember that the next time you try to illegally import 50kg of dried shrimp in your luggage.

    • For the most part non commercial entities won’t bother with the blurring, you’d have to find it first and they have to have a turnover of more than $3m in Australia.

      Journalists and documentaries are exempted from having to blur your face. Border control tv shoes etc aren’t blurring people’s faces because they have to, they’re doing it because it’s easier not to have to defend a defamation suit (unless people have been convicted their lawyers will probably tell them to blur) and it makes no difference to the quality of the program. The private entity that owns the airport may also request it (its not a public place). But it’s probably more a case of if the person has been convicted by the time the show airs.

      The OAIC you referenced
      https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/the-privacy-act/rights-and-r…

      Basically larger entities will probably blur your face because you’re not worth the hassle. But the moment it’s remotely newsworthy to show your face they’ll drop that practice. There will also be live broadcasts and things where your request are totally useless and impractical to implement.

  • +2

    Did you at least film the altercation?

    • OP started to but they all stopped mid fight to tell OP no filming.

      • I think they didn't even notice me to be honest as the heat is on two groups of growing man trying to proof a point, especially the wifes are around for the parents and girlfriends around for the Tiktoks…..

  • +1

    Your poll options A and C are the same.

  • +1

    Add one more option, tiktokers are wnkrs

  • Specifically for WA (OP)

    Classification exemptions for events
    https://www.artslaw.com.au/information-sheet/children-in-the…

    Consent and release form but ultimately it's up to the "talent" if they sign.

    If they don't want to sign, it may come down to who was at the park first. If it was a publicised event being filmed, with Police approval this would sway things toward content authors.

    Privacy
    While there is no general right to privacy in Australia, there are laws which affect the recording or photography of children. In Western Australia, these apply to the surveillance or stalking of another person. In addition, various bylaws made by councils may affect the photography or filming of people in public places managed by the council such as parks or the beach.

    ^ also from top link

    • Thanks for the link, I will save it for future reference ☺️

  • +1

    Don't go into public if you don't want to be seen or potentially recorded..

    • imagine if someone just decided to film you as soon as you leave ur house and not stop till you're in a private property…

      • That may be a case of stalking, laws exist to prevent that.

        • As long as you have no intent to cause apprehension or fear of serious harm, it should be fine for most states and those who dont have that provision require multiple instances.

          I want to be clear and say I don't advocate for it to occur, I'm just pointing out there's gaps in the law. If someone don't want to be filmed, it should be respected.

      • Happens to celebrities i guess?
        People camp infront of their houses and follow them to events..

  • +2

    What is with the poll options? They are all correct.

    The parents have a “right” to ask but the tiktok people don’t have to listen.

    The other two poll options are the same thing.

  • Not an exhaustive definition of "commercial purpose", but it seems relevant:

    http://www.artslaw.com.au/images/uploads/Street_photographer…

    "Commercial purpose" involves using the photograph to sell something other than the photograph itself

    I think it would be hard to say that these people in the background who are not the focus of the video are being sold, imagine all the photos and videos sold all the time of "busy beach on sunny day" it would be impossible to obtain releases of all people in that public place, and it seems improbable that there wouldn't have been some who'd 'have a go' at claiming they need to be paid-off for inclusion.

    As obnoxious as the TikTokkers might be, they're just breaching the social niceties of maintaining a healthy distance from people already in a space - like the guy who takes the urinal next to you rather than leaving at least 1 empty stall if that is possible, it's a bit weird and irksome, but not illegal and you can't carry on about it.

    Gotta love these nonsense fights though, and the types that then make it physical - and now have every kid going home from that party telling their parents about "they saw Jaxxxon and Jassinta's Daddy pushed the man and then their Mummy was screaming and then we had organic live bread fairy bread with free trade ones and zeros because hundreds and thousands are elitist"

    • 'the guy who takes the urinal next to you rather than leaving at least 1 empty stall if that is possible, it's a bit weird and irksome, but not illegal and you can't carry on about it'

      as a child I remember being creeped out by old guys standing at a nearby urinal for a long time and fearing they were gay and about to attack me

      as an old guy now, like most men over 50yo I have an enlarged prostate which restricts the flow meaning I may have to stand at a urinal for maybe two minutes before I can finish emptying my bladder

      so for youngies worried about old guys lingering at a nearby urinal, it may be just prostatomegaly.

  • I thought there was something about if pictures were taken with the intent of publication for profit, it might require consent.

    Major media and government organizations typically carefully obtain written consent before capturing images of people for publication.

    However being in public, with TikTok (hello Chinese surveillance) guys claiming they're not making a profit, in this case the parents would probably have to eat it

    taking photos of kids is another question, and typically invites a punch in the face from concerned fathers

    • Didn't see the punch in the face bit, but one of the equipment was taken and lots of grabbing and throwing was happening. Has to be somewhere so I left

    • Major media do no such thing. Look at every live cross to a news event with ransoms walking past. They absolutely do not obtain consent, nor are they required to.

      If you’re filming an ad however you will have to, as you can’t represent someone endorses a product without their consent.

      You can take a photograph of anyone from a public place and sell that photo as much as you like, for profit, no consent required. You just can’t use that photo to sell something else other than the photo of them.

      There’s zero problem with making a profit from it, legally.

      There’s a whole host of other laws that deal with taking photographs for indecent purposes or stalking etc. It has to be more than someone incidentally in the background though.

  • Maybe filming of public spaces is allowed,
    but the question is about the uploading
    of that film onto a private transnational corporate server.

    • +1

      That’s legal, so is selling it for a profit. It’s actually filming from a public space as well, so it covers any space visible from a public space, even if private.

      Same as parents uploading photos of their kid’s birthday party to Facebook is legal.

      The bigger privacy concerns with Tik Tok come from having the app on your phone more than being in the background of a video someone else uploaded.

  • Hmm…. Not an interesting forum topic… Will go back to tictok watching twerk videos

  • But but…the government is constantly filming us…and even when im having my birthday party at the park.

  • I hope you got this argument on film, for posting to YouTube shorts?

    • Well I don't like filming others, just feels morally wrong. Certainly wouldn't post it for sure.

      And for the record, I don't have Tiktok in my phone, so are my kid, glad she is more interested in Minecraft and Roblox

      • I was joking.

        But yes, I respect others privacy.

        And I dislike this current obsession with instant "trash" content that a lot of society seem to be consuming at the moment.

  • +6

    Tiktokers are insufferable but so are entitled parents. The parents could have easily googled state public filming laws in less than 30 seconds instead of starting an altercation.

    Something about popping out a kid and having control over its life turns some people into delusional control freaks. Suddenly the whole world has to bend over for their kids and overprotective parenting styles.

    Also seeing your dad filmed being beaten up by or arrested because of a ticktocker of all people is more damaging to a kid than being in the background of a cringey video. Parents were idiots here.

  • +3

    Interesting article from the ABC not so long ago that addressed this very thing, and they dug into what you can and can't do.

    To sum it up, there isn't much you can do in a legal sense unless the video is defamatory or it's considered commercial. Even if they are making money from the video, under our "passing off" law, the person featured in the footage needs to have a commercial reputation to be protected.

    • So nothing those parents can do legally just like the old lady doesn't wants to be on camera.

      I think that's wrong morally but it is what it is……..

  • Who's got the sauce?

  • Tik fok the awful Chinese platform has been very successful in brainwashing and converting western youths into doing dumb fads and becoming stupid as hell.

    No right for Tiks to film kids in a park like paed******s

    It’s time to stop the rot, stop the CCP - or become the next province of the PRC as their pets

    • +3

      It would seem that tik tok isn’t the only way people get brainwashed…

      • That's true, but it seems it ain't him that's brainwashed. First, youtube did exactly the same thing already, only better, with videos as long as you like. Second, TikTok was a new trend, and like most new trends, that's code for "immature nonsense" which is what most of its early videos were. Third, if the CCP ever decides to direct the programmers of TikTok to code an update that accesses people's email, crypto, etc - they'll just bow and say yes, or else they'll be "disappeared" overnight never to be seen again. (Anyone who claims otherwise has no understanding of China.)

  • Who won the fight?

  • +2

    public space, end of story

  • +2

    cant tell if op is new to the country or 13

  • They had all the right, not to be CONTENT of someone's tiktok.

  • +2

    its a simple case of Entitleds versus Entitleds

    • You can film freely in areas accessible by general public, so parks, sidewalks etc is ok
    • if you are not the focus, not made to look like you are participating or endoring a product/act/stance and just in background, you are fair game, there are rules for harassment, i.e. if you are obviously filming someone as the main focus as the subject of your filming, that is a different story.
    • Those people who do pranks/stunts with strangers logically the strangers should be blurred out, but unless someone flags it, it is assumed that these are actors or friends in on it. The liability lies with the uploader so Youtube and TikTok can take such a stance (upload first, and remove if flagged correctly)

    If the parents escalated they are in the wrong, simply ask the TikTok guys to film a different direction or angle (obviously alot of snowflakes these days who don't understand whats the meaning of public spaces)

    The TikTok guys should also have offered to film in a different direction while also saying its a public space, though technically they can film wherever as long as they are not physically preventing others from using the space. e.g. a film crew would want to cordone off to control foot traffic in the area they filming, thus denying general public from accessing. Generally a different set of rules and permits are usually required.

    If anyone touched anyone else (or thier phone,camera etc) first it would be against the law, though a case can be made about the parents harassing the wannabe Tiktok stars…

    • -3

      If you're filming other people's kids in your video intended for internet distribution, you're already in the wrong.

      If the kids parent's come over and ask you to stop, and now you want to actually get in a heated argument about it?!

      Well you're a total prick now, like these TikTockers

  • It's a public area. Parents have to suck it up. They can't do anything more than asking them to please film somewhere else

    • +1

      Anyone films my daughter playing on park swings and it will be them sucking it up… for 3 months… through a straw.

      • you do that and you will see your daughter again after she graduates

        • Not if I'm on the jury :D

  • +2

    So many haters

    Its the current thing…. Every generation has their "thing"…and there are those who always take it too far to annoy unwilling participants

    Despite all the crap about China etc, Tik Tok is a great way for people young and old to express themselves. If you are engaging enough, can be a huge source of income as well.

    A large amount of the population watches TikTok or Insta/FB reels in their spare time.

    In this situation, I would blame the parents/bday party. Its no different to being in a public park in 1995 and having a problem with someone else filiming at a distance with a camcorder recording their own kids running in the background

    • -1

      Its no different to being in a public park in 1995 and having a problem with someone else filiming at a distance with a camcorder recording their own kids running in the background

      The difference is private vs public use. The Tiktokers are going to distribute their video online.

      • what if the 1995 video makes it onto funniest home videos on the tele?

  • +1

    Who won the fight?

    • Don't know, didn't stay till the end as it was heated enough and a few parents are already on the phone calling. Don't know they are getting re-enforcement or calling the police.

  • The Government films you with their metro CCTV network and also tracks your internet history…….no one cares

    Some dudes filming random crap and everyone debates about nothing.

    That my friends is how you go quiet into the night.

  • I'm going to need some footage to be able to give an informed decision…

    OP you did film this altercation didn't you?

    • I honestly did not film this. Even if I did what am I going to do about the footage? Sell to channel 7? LOL

  • -1

    When the laws about filming and photographing of other people were written there wasn't really any way to widely distribute images of a person to the public without it also being a commercial use.

    These days you can video a person and distribute it to millions of people easily and without it being commercial use.

    So it's a loophole which should really be closed.

    A person shouldn't be forced unwillingly to be the star of some random YouTubers video.

    • -1

      I very much agree to this.

      I think the US has different rules when it comes to distribution, as on many YouTube they always ask can we use the footage at the end.

    • Journalists film people in public and give them 5 minutes of stardom on national TV all the time with or without consent (that's why some people cover their faces), lawfully might I add. It's been happening long before smartphones or youtube. No consent is required when filming on public property.

      The family in question here were not "forced" to being filmed, they had the freedom of movement to go elsewhere if they chose, as did the tiktokers, instead, they chose verbal abuse, unknowing what the tiktokers might do to retaliate and escalate and put children at furthrer risk.

      Legally speaking, difference here being, journalists do so without repercussions of breaking the law as they are exempt from harassment/stalking charges as it's part of their job to film.

      If these tiktokers were intentionally filming the family in question, the police could potentially arrest them and/or serve them with a personal safety intervention order on grounds of harrassment/stalking, in which case they could lawfully restrict the tiktokers from freedom of movement (ie. can't be of certain vicinity of family in question). The burden of proof would be on the family/police to prove that the tiktokers are not journalists and they were intentionally trying to cause mental or physical harm by filming, for a conviction, which, from what I gather, they were not.

      I think people have bias views on this since you added tiktok in the description. Would it be any different if it was filmed for a family or travel video that people post online?

  • +1

    So it's a loophole which should really be closed.

    Easily done just take all those screens off everybody . While your at it make sure you blur all those people faces at sporting events I see on TV .

  • Happened to me once at a beach. Random parents wanted to look/search my camera. Their kids were fully clothed swimming near to where I took a few pics of the beach I got flustered and recited the law as it was a public place. Another parent nearby heard this and threatened to break my camera if there was pics of his kids on there. I stood my ground, but eventually showed them my camera gallery. Realised later I could have avoided the drama by just showing them the pics. Also realised they could have probably grabbed my camera in the confusion and legged it.

  • Bad poll questions - I want to answer yes to all of them.

  • I actually thought that's these were their TikTok usernames "Tiktok Guys" and "Parents at The Park" before I read the details

    • Oh I don't know how to call them so just used the most logical description.

      Can't imagine getting too bad as one was doing filming the other was having birthday party, I think after a few words and wrestling all is ended quick.

  • -1

    https://youtu.be/790i1ScPZ-A

    This is in the US, and at the end Lara asked if it's ok to use the footage, so US has a different law to us then. Maybe it's time we catch up on the privacy part.

    By the way on a side note Lara picks girl is more easier than me picking up my shopping. Lol

  • Who's wrong? The person who threw the first punch.

  • So I could technically just follow and film a person as long as they're in public?

    If I were the parents I would just try to ruin his tik tok wherever I could until he left. It's a public place after all

    • I think if you intentionally follow and film a person, they could potentially arrest you and/or serve you with a personal safety restraining order on grounds of stalking.
      In that case, they could lawfully restrict your freedom of movement but they would have to prove that you were filming them with the intentions of causing mental or physical harm.

      Journalists follow and film people in public all the time but they are exempt from stalking charges as it's part of their job and (arguably) not intentionally trying to cause harm.

      These tiktokers were not, from what i gather, intentionally filming the family in question.

  • I feel like rational and productive conversation go out the window when someone says ‘it’s a free country’

  • The LEGAL part is obviously you can film whatever you like in public space. However some years ago it became creepy and unacceptable to photograph/film children. Even youtube was blocking/deleting perfectly innocent videos with kids. And people were calling police to deal with "offenders" acting suss… like on the beach, sitting watching kids on swings in parks, etc with their phones held up and asking to see the content on their phones.

    Now since the left hasn't managed to fully shove society down the latrine yet, it's probably still the case cops take a dim view of kids being recorded. So if someone involves the cops, they always try to take the path of least resistance, and since the parents are the ones incensed, cops would probably "firmly suggest" they respect the family group's request, delete the footage, and point the camera anywhere else and start again. In other words, persuade them to wipe it, regardless of what "the law" says they can do to disarm the situation.

  • Instagram parents vs Tiktok guys = who wins?

      • "Parents" and "children" means dad has a high sperm count.
      • ParasiteTokers, particularly those who gather in groups, are probably soy boys with low sperm counts.

      Unless there's a dozen of the latter and they all hit the former with their man bags, it's obvious who would win. ;-)

  • +1

    As long as the filmers are on public property they can film whatever they want, even private property. If visible from public property they can film as long as they are filming on/from public property. If it wasn't we wouldn't have Google Street/Satelite View.

    Most people are considerate (not tiktok entitled) when on public property or don't care, so these things don't escalate often.
    Google Maps will blur private property if requested but not by default. Google Maps does blur things linked to personal identity like number plates and faces by default now.

    If you really want privacy, you have the option to stay in private property with the curtains closed.

  • If someone was filming my family/children I'd just shout PEDO! They're filming our KIDS!

    Watch them run!

  • I'm pretty sure all filming on public property is entirely legal and does not require consent. Just have a look at what paparazzo can get away with.

    The tabloids use paparazzo photos and video recordings on public land. All of their photos and video footage is definitely for profit and widely distributed. Their target celebrities are front and centre in bikini beach shots and car upskirts.

    Back in the 2000's the most famous paparazzo in UK was an Aussie from Geelong named Darryn Lyons. I bet you he could answer your question.

  • If this happens in North Korea, Kim would have both groups line up for the firing squad.

  • I watched some of the popular Tiktok videos today, about 30mins also, and this is my conclusion on some of the videos with millions and millions of views:

    1: someone making really stupid things like farting in public
    2: a very good looking girl doing something really revealing
    3: someone with really unbelievable skills
    4: lots of cold jokes which are not funny
    5: way too many 10 second clips on certain types of movie quotes

    Apart from that, it's just pure time wasting, I rather spending time going out and enjoying the family day out than watching videos above.

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