Please Help Me Build a NAS (4K Movies/Lossless Music/Backup)

Ltheory on 07/03/2023 - 13:15

Appreciate any suggestions for NAS and hard drives.

Lost an internal hard drive recently which had all my movies on it, was able to save the data but don't want to go through that again.

Looking for somewhere to keep my files with RAID or some sort of backup - I don't know exactly what I need here, I just want to not lose anything if possible.

Currently streaming to Plex with no issues from an external HDD connected to my PC.

I realise I don't necessarily need to go overboard but I just want something easy and future proof that I can dump everything on to easily.

  • Want it to be easy to connect to my network and organise files.
  • Will stream movies/TV up to 4K using Plex.
  • Also looking at streaming lossless music files via Plex to Plexamp on my phone.

Would rather go big once than upgrade later, so 4 bay would probably be the go. More space than I need is better than too little space.

Thank you!

P.S.
One friend of mine said he has this, which seems like overkill?
Synology DS1621xs+ with 64 GB of RAM, 1.5 TB of SSD caching, 14 TB of SSD storage, an updated network add-in, a dedicated network switch, and updated fans

Another mate has a WD PR4100 with RAID, 4x4TB which gives him about 10TB space. Also has SSD backup and Google Drive backup.

Computing Computer Component Hard Drive NAS

Comments

  • localhost on 07/03/2023 - 13:27
    +2

    Buy cheap 2 disk storage, like QNAP + two hdd for raid1 mirror. In case one fails you can recover all.
    Sample:
    TS-251+ - around $450
    Internal HDD 8TB drives - $200 each.

    Total - around $900.

    Also buy cheap external HDD same size to do backup of existing files. You can configure QNAP to do it for you.

    Install plex on QNAP and enjoy.

    Check this as well - https://www.qnap.com/solution/plex-best-nas/en-au/

    • theory on 07/03/2023 - 13:41

      Hey thanks for this. Couple comments/questions…

      • I'm thinking of way more available space than that, something 4-bay would probably be more future proof for my needs.
      • Any idea what brand/model of HDDs would work best (and be reliable)?
      • Also was your suggestion of an external HDD for backup to save money? Can't the backup be part of the NAS? Not sure how that works but I have enough externals around the place and it just feels messy.

      Thanks again

      • localhost on 07/03/2023 - 13:54
        +2

        From the link above they suggest TS-364 (3 disk) for 4k transcoding. Check current QNAP models as there might be a better one available.
        If you use 4 bay model you can setup RAID 5.
        With 4x8TB disks you will have 24TB available.
        See calculator here - https://www.raid-calculator.com/default.aspx

        For backup of this get something like this when it's on sale - https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/747865

        But with 4 drive nas + more disks total price will be about $2k.

        See also this model - https://www.qnap.com/en-au/product/ts-464
        It has M.2 NVMe SSDs for cache acceleration as well.

        and this - https://www.qnap.com/en-au/product/ts-364

        • theory on 07/03/2023 - 14:10

          Awesome, this looks more like what I'd want. I have the 18TB version of the WD HDD you linked to - does the backup need to be the same size as the total of the three disks (e.g. 24TB) or will this be fine?

          • localhost on 07/03/2023 - 14:14
            +1

            @theory: As backup is file system backup (files are copied) you can backup all up to the size of external disk.
            If you have some shares on QNAP like:
            music - 2TB
            movies - 10TB
            photos - 4TB
            misc - 6TB

            you can do backup of music,movies and photos only. Total 16TB, will fit on 18TB disk.

            • theory on 07/03/2023 - 14:16

              @localhost: Legend, thanks.

              • FoxJump on 07/03/2023 - 22:06

                @theory: keep in mind that you want to over-provision your backup disk so that you have extra room for
                a) future backups
                b) version control on your backups.

            • boomramada on 08/03/2023 - 11:30

              @localhost: Don't get me wrong, but why do you need to back up movies? that is like backing up the internet.

              That's more like digital hoarding to me.

              Things that you can replace, no need to backup, things like photos and personal files, something you should backup off-site as well. In case house goes down in flame.

              • localhost on 08/03/2023 - 14:37

                @boomramada: Believe me but I do backups of some movies. Especially some rare, downloaded from the internet and not available anywhere - not on dvd, streaming,etc..

      • Twix on 07/03/2023 - 14:14
        +1

        Seagate Ironwolf NAS, WD Red Plus, WD Red Pro for 3.5" NAS hard drives.

        A RAID1 NAS won't be any good if you get ransomware and your files get encrypted. Keep offline backup drive(s) with you and store another offline backup in another location like at a family members home. Rotate the backup drives when necessary.

        • theory on 07/03/2023 - 14:17
          +1

          Thank you, appreciate it!

          • Twix on 07/03/2023 - 14:37
            +2

            @theory: All good. Basically you want multiple backups. Don't rely on the NAS alone for backups.

            • theory on 07/03/2023 - 14:43

              @Twix: I'm reading a bit about SSD caching/storage - does this mean I would need 4 of the same SSD drives if I wanted to go that way, or can I mix and match? Cheers!

              • Twix on 07/03/2023 - 14:48
                +1

                @theory: It depends what NAS you go with. Generally it is best to use the same drives. I wouldn't go with large size SSDs unless you have money to burn. Hard drives are fine for streaming as long as the NAS has a fast CPU and enough RAM.

                • theory on 07/03/2023 - 15:00
                  +1

                  @Twix: Cheers

                  • FoxJump on 07/03/2023 - 17:58
                    +1

                    @theory: Keep in mind that SSD caching is (mostly) irrelevant if you access the NAS through wifi or 1Gb ethernet, since the speed of 4hdds will already saturate that.

                    you'll just be burning through SSD TBWs

      • snep on 07/03/2023 - 14:31
        +3

        Just a few comments on this:
        - QNAP has a terrible track record for security. This is okay if you're just using it within your LAN, but I certainly wouldn't have any of their boxes exposed to the internet.
        - If you care about your data, offsite backups are important — preferably on the cloud.

        • theory on 07/03/2023 - 14:35

          Thanks for this. Yeah would just be my LAN. Can you explain how/why you would expose your NAS to the internet?

          • snep on 07/03/2023 - 14:39
            +1

            @theory: A lot of people (including myself) find it useful to be able to access their machine/files remotely. Also running services for family friends, e.g. a minecraft server or media streaming. Of course there are more and less secure ways to do this, but if I had a QNAP box I wouldn't be considering any of them.

            • theory on 07/03/2023 - 14:41

              @snep: Oh right, yes I did specify I want to stream lossless music remotely to my phone…

              • FoxJump on 07/03/2023 - 19:04

                @theory: Setup a vpn on the nas. problem fixed

      • [Deactivated] on 07/03/2023 - 21:51
        +1

        Any idea what brand/model of HDDs would work best (and be reliable)?

        WD Elements 12TB $299 Amazon or Officeworks. They are helium.

  • amansandhu2003 on 07/03/2023 - 14:01
    +5

    If you are bit technical then buy an old PC and install and run TrueNAS Scale. You can then install Plex on it. There are plenty of youtube tutorials that can help you out. TrueNAS is way cheaper than Synology or QNAP.

    • theory on 07/03/2023 - 14:07

      Thanks, I will look into this!

      • misu p on 07/03/2023 - 17:03
        +1

        In case you want Plex transcoding get an intel 7th gen + cpu. Otherwise, you may need to get a GPU and you probably do not want that.

      • FoxJump on 07/03/2023 - 17:58
        +1

        you can also buy a QNAP nas and then install trunas on it.

    • nedski on 07/03/2023 - 14:50
      +1

      I came here to say the same thing.

      I have Truenas installed on my old PC. Got two drives in Raid configuration. The server handles my linux downloads, Plex as well as our family photos and movies are stored there. Very happy with Truenas and its free. Highly recommended.

    • idjces on 07/03/2023 - 15:32
      +1

      This. TrueNas (zfs), is the be-all and end-all of data resiliency

  • boomramada on 07/03/2023 - 15:00
    +1

    I know you all suggest some awesome setups but mine is Raspberry Pi4 + SSD (OS) + x2 12GB drivers to support 4K Movies/Lossless Music/Backup, Plex server is on SHIELD TV Pro, no issues whatsoever.
    The only downside due to no RAID setup, the backup is script based.

    • theory on 07/03/2023 - 15:02

      Hey, nice idea for a setup. I just want to set up a neat little box and forget about it, even if it costs me more. Have considered SHIELD TV Pro, and still might get one, but I just want all my media in the same easy place for all devices.

    • Drpepper666 on 07/03/2023 - 16:37

      I assume you mean 12TB drives - how are they connected/what drives are they, are they USB External drives? Thanks

  • bondi on 07/03/2023 - 15:39
    -1

    First thing is first, do you have the fund for NAS, that particular model DS1621xs+ is the best product on the current market. It will take all tasks you could desire to do, I spent a lot on this model, 12TBx4 HDD + 16TB x2 HDD with Raid5, 32GB RAM and 2x 800MB NVMe caches, UPS, Synology RT2600ac switch, external Hyper Back 18TB HDD…list goes on.

    • theory on 07/03/2023 - 15:55

      Money isn't an issue, if I can I want to do it right the first time. How much did you spend on yours?

      • bondi on 07/03/2023 - 16:38
        +1

        I lost count, I think the initial spending is a little over $9000, and there is more hardware purchased after the rackmount cabinet, 24 port POE switch, Synology surveillance licenses, 10GBe thunderbolt adaptor, QNAP 10Gbe switch, this is a luxury habit.

        • theory on 07/03/2023 - 16:59

          Sounds awesome but probably overkill for what I need. I doubt I'd even have space for the NAS itself.

          • bondi on 07/03/2023 - 17:43
            +1

            @theory: Sure. Sound like you just need to buy 2 HDD and HDD reader, all data will be backed up. As I said to you, don’t rush into this NAS field before you understood. Nothing is overkill, it is a task that has to be done.

      • cfuse on 08/03/2023 - 13:41
        +1

        Lucky you.

        In that case the answer here is pay someone to do it for you. There are no shortage of people that can easily set up and maintain a solution for you if you don't know how (or don't want to do it yourself).

        How much storage and how fault tolerant do you want it to be? That's all it boils down to, and how expensive it will all end up.

        • theory on 08/03/2023 - 15:00

          I'm off work for a bit so I have time to do it myself.

          After recommendations in this thread and some further research of my own, I'm thinking a DS920+ with either 4x10TB (30TB storage) or 4x12TB (36TB storage) Ironwolf or WD Red will be enough for me. So around $2000.

          RAID 5 for disk failure. External HDD and cloud for backing up important stuff.

  • ricsantos on 07/03/2023 - 16:25
    +3

    I just bought a Synology DS920+ to replace an old PC that was running Plex with external drives for storage. Didn't get the latest model (DS923+) as it's not as good at transcoding. 4 bays, plenty big enough.

    If you have existing exteral USB drives you can shuck them and use the drives in your Synology. I'm sure there are downsides but I'm doing this to save a bit of coin.

    • theory on 07/03/2023 - 16:27

      Thanks. Don't the drives have to all be the same size in a NAS? I have a bunch of external HDDs but they're older and I don't trust them, so will just buy 4 new ones to be safe.

      • ricsantos on 07/03/2023 - 16:53
        +1

        Nah you can mix and match, but you don't get the maximum usage of them though. I'm using Synology Hybrid Raid (SHR) which apparently improves the wasted space somewhat.

        • theory on 07/03/2023 - 16:58

          Oh cool, thanks for that info.

    • MelbEng on 07/03/2023 - 20:28
      +1

      I also have a DS920+ after having used a DS212 for several years. This is the easiest way to go and it will definitely do what you are after and more. Watch some Youtube videos on how to set one up and the features they have. Once you use a Synology NAS and its DSM operating system, you'll never go back.
      I recommend Ironwolf drives.

      • theory on 07/03/2023 - 20:45

        Thanks!

  • misu p on 07/03/2023 - 17:13
    +1

    I would go (and did it too) the route of an old full-size desktop with a Intel 7th gen CPU for plex transcoding and using Unraid. Unraid costs money compared to TrueNas but it is a 1 time payment. Have fun running anything you can think of as VMs or Docker containers.

    Regarding the disks, you are limited by the number of sata ports (usually 6 even on an m-atx MB) + you can always add PCIe cards for even more HDDs. You will run out of case bays before you run out of sata ports.

    If you do not consider this fun… probably a NAS would suit you better.

    • theory on 07/03/2023 - 17:17

      Thanks for the comment. Sounds pretty cool but probably overkill for what I need it for.

      • zambuck on 13/03/2023 - 20:24
        +1

        I've had several NAS devices and I've had a couple fail at various times. If you're considering reliability then you should be considering failure modes. Most NAS devices default to a RAID structure which adds complexity as it adds reliability, so recovery is more complex by necessity.

        Unraid is where I settled, mainly because I could choose my own failure, and therefore take steps to mitigate it. I run with two parity disks, meaning I'd need to lose three disks before I lost any files. Even if I did lose three disks I would still have the remaining files on the remaining disks, readily usable in any other linux machine.

        But yep, it may be overkill for your needs.

        • theory on 13/03/2023 - 21:39

          Thanks for the info.

    • randombrick on 07/03/2023 - 23:24

      By full size, I guess you don't mean the SFF ones that come up on OzB? Any recommendations on where to look for an old PC with a 7th gen CPU?

  • FoxJump on 07/03/2023 - 17:56
    +1

    I have a Qnap TS-464

    If you have a TV that plays the format of your movie, then the NAS does no effort, as it just goes to the TV. So a cheap NAS should be okay.

    If your TV is old, like mine (2015) then it can only do h264 4K, or FHD h265.
    Which means the NAS has to do work.

    The TS-464 sucks balls for 4k h265 software transcoding via plex. You have to pay the plex ransom-money to enable hw transcoding. Then it does just fine.

    Also, TS464 can have 32GB of Ram.

    synology has "hybrid raid" where it can stripe parts of hdds together to better use different sized disks, as long as you have a pair

    ie: 4 + 4 + 8 + 8
    results in 4TB in Raid6 across for Disks and 4TB in raid 1 across 2 disks.

    Qnap doesnt have that, instead, you can make two raid 1s, one 4Tb x2, and another 8TB x2; and then group them together
    so … with 4 disks you can:
    - make a raid 6
    - make two pairs of Raid 1

    the first lets you lose 2 disks and be okay
    the second lets you lose 1 disk of each pair and be okay, but you can upgrade disks (to bigger capacity) in pairs rather than in 4

    but i aint paying!

    So, instead, I made a python script to help me transcode all the movie collection that was 4K H265 into FHD H265. Currently in progress. Should finish in 3 days with 2 computers working hard. I dont need super high resolution to watch tv 2meters away.

    • theory on 07/03/2023 - 19:08

      Really interesting, thanks for posting. My TV is pretty new (LG G1) and I direct stream instead of transcoding, so a cheaper NAS might be the way to go.

      • FoxJump on 07/03/2023 - 20:08
        +1

        do not buy a second hand qnap with an intel processor starting with J

        they tend to die randomly

    • localhost on 07/03/2023 - 19:40
      +1

      Please, don't mix RAIDs … in case of disk failure recovery will be problematic.

      • FoxJump on 07/03/2023 - 19:43

        recovery … like when two disks of the same pair fail?

        meh, backup restore

  • garetz on 07/03/2023 - 23:40
    +2

    I would just get a DS920+ , there is alot of value in plug and play and not having to mess around with a whole system. It is also the most energy efficient.

    • theory on 08/03/2023 - 10:44

      Cheers, this might be the way I go after looking into it.

  • bamzero on 08/03/2023 - 11:44
    +1

    Just remember…

    • theory on 08/03/2023 - 11:54

      Thanks for reminder. RAID for disk failure + backup elsewhere.

  • Noblejoker on 08/03/2023 - 15:47
    +1

    @theory This is OzB so we need cheaper solutions - price is no object does not fly here! lol

    Suggest you review your needs and downsize.
    Honestly unless you are a video pro or hoarder of rarities these movies are already backed up on the internet by your good old Uncle Torrents

    Your own docs, photos and originals - double back them up for sure

    But some stuff you 'found' and accumulated over time - don't sweat it
    Most of it can be 'found' if you do actually want to watch it again or just streamed these days
    A $1K set up pays for a lot of Netflix/stan/Disney or DVD box sets

    • theory on 08/03/2023 - 16:54

      Haha yeah you're right but I also want to set and forget and easily be able to continue using what I buy for the next 5 years at least.

      Further up I said I might spend 2k on the setup, might be closer to 1.5k now.

      Thanks for the comment!

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