My cousin stopped at the red light but because of his trailer, he didn't brake hard enough and have gone over the white lines but he did stop.
But now he got a fine of 3 demerit points and $400 fine. How can we dispute this? Is there any hope or just cop it?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
no leniency on serious traffic offences (at least here in NSW)
Double or nothing.. plead guilty and hope for section 10 dismissal..
It's not a criminal matter. s10 pleadings are to not have a conviction recorded.
So a magistrate has never dismissed a traffic offence under section 10(1)(a) in NSW?… No court fine or demerits?..
@randomusername2017: Surely it would be easier for you to show a single time when a magistrate has done so.
@randomusername2017: My point was that the instead of trying to put the onus of proof on somebody trying to disprove that something ever happened, which would require an exhaustive search of every single case ever and amounts to childish trap setting, perhaps just provide a single precedent that substantiates your claim and get on with it.
May I ask how you confirmed Lee was actually a 10(1)(a) dismissal rather than an s10A, or something else?
double it and give it to the next person
When did this bootlicker attitude become ok?
Not running reds and calling peoples BS ain't bootlicking. I almost got run into last week on sydney Rd when someone went through a red where I had a green for about 3-4sec already.
You think people are going around inventing elaborate lies and asking questions about them because someone else ran a very red light?
When did this bootlicker attitude become ok?
Exactly - when did it okay to suck off those who are putting others in danger? Bit of a sore throat today mate?
Could have easily run into another car / pedestrian by overshooting the line.
Today i drove near 2 people who were obviously drunk, veering over the road dangerously, but nothing caught them despite them driving right past 2 cop stations. Regular occurrence around here.
A few weeks ago i saw a sedan break slightly too slow at a yellow light on the cusp, they stopped a little over the line at an intersection where they weren't putting anyone in danger, and I saw the camera flash them.
"running a red" shouldn't automatically be considered a serious offense without context, and indignancy about it being 100% a serious danger is laughable.
Today i drove near 2 people who were obviously drunk, veering over the road dangerously, but nothing caught them despite them driving right past 2 cop stations. Regular occurrence around here.
Sure, but also irrelevant to the story at hand. Just because there are "worse wrongs" doesn't make this right.
A few weeks ago i saw a sedan break slightly too slow at a yellow light on the cusp, they stopped a little over the line at an intersection where they weren't putting anyone in danger, and I saw the camera flash them.
That's not how the camera works. If they stopped on a yellow, then the camera would not have flashed.
"running a red" shouldn't automatically be considered a serious offense without context, and indignancy about it being 100% a serious danger is laughable.
Agreed, but in this case here, the cousin was hauling a load and also went over the white line.
It's not just "running a red", it's that he's not able to judge his breaking distance, and also hauling a load, which will make any accident he gets into much more dangerous.
Reality is that he's lucky nobody was in front of him. He could have easily rear-ended someone, rolled into oncoming traffic, or hit a pedestrian.
The reason why we have such shit driving in this country is because we keep enabling morons.
"running a red" shouldn't automatically be considered a serious offense
Yes, it should absolutely be considered a serious offence. There is no context in which "running a red" should be deemed as "ok" (emergency vehicles attending an emergency aside) considering the amount of "yellow light" warning you get.
Maybe you have a case for 5km over the limit in a 110km zone, but stop lights? The main reason is that there is a yellow light before the red that it is also there to tell you to stop and is on for a good 3~ish seconds or around 50~ish metres from the intersection. There is plenty of warning of an impending stop well before you "run the red". Running a stop light has the potential to kill people, parking in a "no stopping" area, not so much.
Adhering to the rules we agreed upon when we all signed up for our licenses and not wanting to be killed by someone who runs a red light doesn't make someone a "GubErNmEnT bOoT LiCkEr!11!!!!"
@pegaxs: So your premise is that you always get plenty of warning on a yellow, which is false. It's also that context doesn't matter, so if someone charges through mid-red it should be treated the same as someone that stops 0.5m over the line. Sure, that's going to slaughter your family!
@PeterSnoot: No, not off hand, but it follows if you accept people have contested red light fines on the basis of too-short yellows.
@ssfps: The yellow light is a warning. It is designed to be enough warning to allow you to stop. If you couldn’t stop before the stop line you weren’t paying enough attention and deserve a fine.
Yellow doesn’t mean speed up it’s about to turn red, it means stop unless it’s unsafe.
It is designed to be enough warning to allow you to stop
Ah, you live in a fantasy world where intersections are all perfectly engineered, nice.
@ssfps: Not all intersections are perfectly engineered, I’ll grant you that, but give me an actual example of where a set of traffic lights doesn’t give you enough warning to safely stop when it goes yellow.
@ssfps: Exactly. I don’t understand why there are so many people on here who seem to think everything in life is black and white. The world just doesn’t work that way.
need mspaint
cant visualise it
cool first post too, after 5 years!
Aphant?
have gone over the white lines
what part are you disputing then? the rule is stop behind the white lines.
Thank you for answering. I have RTA pictures he has downloaded. His fronts wheel are over the white line but his back wheels and trailer are defintely behind.
If it is a red light camera fine, there will be two photos about 1 second apart. The only way for us to help you is for us to view the photos (upload and link to them) and to know what the fine code is, so we can look up what they are being fined for…
Also a state would help, as differences in road rules and fines happen between states.
Looking forward to seeing double trailer semis using this one….
Technically your cousin's wheels were over therefore you did not stop before the line but you may be close enough to be near the line and have it waived…again depends on photos. If both photos show you were close to the line or just slightly over it. Take it to court. But if the first photo shows your slightly over and the other one shows you've moved further away over the next second…..I don't like your chances.
Yeah a bit different from the front wheels being just over the line, to basically saying his back wheels are behind the line. So he is a good 3/4 of a car length over the line.
Sounds like they pretty clearly did the wrong thing and got caught. They need to suck it up and cop it. People who don't know their stopping distances or underestimate them are dangerous to other people ad deserve a consequence as they didn't seem to learn without one.
BS. There’s many reasons why you might reasonably misjudge a yellow. You were glancing at the speedo, mirrors or a potential hazard when the yellow appeared, something unexpected happened etc.
There’s a reason every set of lights has a 3 second (or greater) delay between one direction going red and the next direction turning green.
yes, his rear 40ft trailer wheels are over the line, but his cab is halfway into the intersection.
Any squashed pedestrians in this scenario?
haha made me laugh thanks
Tell your cousin to pay the fine and learn to stop behind the line.
Bad advice. Fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. Get expensive lawyers, barristers, engineers and expert witnesses.
Report it all as a daily blog here on OzBargain
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average ozbargain gaslighting enthusiast
Get Dennis Denuto on the case.
Even Dennis will tell him he's dreaming
It's the vibe of it.
Stop breaking the law insert penalty box word of your choice here
And I’m assuming you never commit any traffic offences?
I take responsibility for my actions rather than trying to slime my way out of them.
Tell the judge that your brakes were not working and then come back here to tell us the result.
Extra fine for not roadworthy 🤣
Ssshhh. Don’t give away the secret.
homer backs into hedge.gif
I thought the fine was more for something this dangerous… and more points.
what the hell was in teh trailer to affect it so much.. sounds so dangerous in itself.
Pro rata for only 2 wheel infraction?¿
what bout mobility skootaz?
Reese make a hitch for those?
Easiest way out is to become a sovereign citizen, Then the law does not apply.
Well they are their own cousin
Travelling, with a trailer. Not driving.
Not a trailer. Independent operational assistant.
That's true, but it only works if the matter is taken to court and the op represented themselves.
BP shot up when I read your comment….
I got a red light fine. I stopped but it was in the middle of an intersection and cars were going around me from the left and right. How do I fight this?
Get out of your car and start swinging. Fight like a man!
Level up and grab your wheel brace!
There’s usually two sensors. One before the line and one a metre or so after the line. To trip the camera you need to drive over both sensors, suggesting you must have gone a fair way over. Not just over.
Anyway technically you broke the law if you didn’t stop before the line, so you’re probably gonna have to pay the fine.
Actually no.
The sensor before the line is used to sense vehicles for normal operation.
The sensor after the line if triggered AFTER the light has turned red, will fire off the camera to take two photos. You don't have to drive over them, simply stopping in them will trigger the inductive loop.
If the photos show the vehicle stopped in both, you may be able to argue that you weren't able to stop prior to the line but that you did actually stop.
Worth a shot
Actually no.
proceeds to say exactly what I said using different words
Must be a ChatGPT response. Write something complicated to make the same point.
I agree with Mattmel96.
The way you posted, it clearly says, to quote you, 'one a metre or so after the line'.
This is factually incorrect as I've seen a car + motorbike get flashed when the front wheel was just a teeny weeny bit over the line (about 10cms).
I've also been in a vehicle that did this. The driver didn't get a fine, but the lights flashed twice, even though he was completely stopped [NSW]. Could be a lucky thing, but coming back, no, you're wrong, it's definitely not one metre.
LMAO @ didn’t break hard enough. On the same level as the dog ate my homework. Take the court option and let us know if you were successful!
*brake
They took a break from braking enough.
The dog ate his homework when it was for learning the words 'brake' vs 'break'. :(
not an official site but might help
https://www.mynrma.com.au/cars-and-driving/driver-training-a…
"Does the whole vehicle or just part of it need to travel beyond the white stop line after the red light appears to trigger the camera?
The rear wheels need to be past the line before the red light comes on to avoid triggering the camera. The camera is not triggered by vehicles crossing the stop line on yellow (amber) or green lights."
Your "cousin" should tell the RMS they can't drive anymore and they should take away their license.
Thought for the day:
$400 buys an anchor or parachute…
Trailers usually aren’t that heavy unloaded, depends on trailer but sub 200kg I think. If there was nothing in it definitely not worth fighting, if you had 2-3 tonnes in it that would be a different story IMO. Not a lawyer, seek Ozbargain advice :)
Sir i dont recognise your jurisdiction as i was travelling with 2 tons of sovereign citizens…
ask for a review
We know your cousin has nothing to do with this. IT'S YOU
yep "cousin"
Say… a hypothetical situation… where my cousin….uhh
Your cousin fked up.
Instead do what everyone else does and dont even consider stopping and floor it.
@Trangara
Where are the pictures and details?
OP, we all know its you, not your cousin but anyway :D
Usually the red light camera takes two pics to confirm that the car has indeed infringed. I would be surprised if the ticket came if the car is only slighly over the line.
FWIW, the red light flashed when I changed from turning right (dedicated right lane with a red signal) to going straight which obviously meant my car went over the white line but never got the ticket. I assume someone checked the footage and realised.
Doesn't hurt to have the footage reviewed again and go from there.
You’re very lucky. There is no video footage afaik. You likely still went over a solid white line, which would also be an offence.
no i went from waiting for red right signal to going straight which was green so it wasn't an offence but the camera still flashed out of technicality.
The line between the lanes would be solid and continuous at the point? I don't think it is legal to change lanes so close to the lights.
But that's probably not something for the red-light operators to enforce.
@redforever: thats technicality.
Go to court with my situation and you win 100% of the time. I didn't make a right turn on red signal - simple as that.
@Bargainitis: I agree with that. You won't get a fine for running a redlight. A police car might pull you over for changing lanes illegally.
The main problem is continuing through the intersection.
“Going over the line is an offence” is wrong because they don’t give a shit about it.
The cameras are for revenue so if you made an attempt to stop but went over the line and didn’t continue going you are safe.
Yellow light gives him plenty of warning to slow and stop.
It's just that everyone in cities now think yellow means go faster.
He only has himself to blame.
Yeah… I don’t believe you… not how red light cameras work…
The road rule says “stop behind or as close to the line” not, “over the line is ok, just so long as you stop…”
Also, if your “cousin” can’t adjust their driving while they have a trailer on and make allowances for the extra weight and stopping distances, may I suggest either them not towing, them to get more practice with it, or just don’t drive…
Have you got the photos (usually 2 photos)? Is the car stopped and stationary in these photos? Is the fine for not stopping or for stopping over the line?
Also, up front, there is no point requesting leniency in this case, because there is no leniency on serious traffic offences (at least here in NSW, other states may vary, but I doubt it.)