Help Me Choose a New Mesh Wi-Fi Setup

furyou on 22/03/2023 - 21:06
Last edited 22/03/2023 - 21:39 by 1 other user

I had 3 Deco M5 - TP-Link connected to telstra FTTP. Today I rebooted them. It didn't come back from reboot.
The puck seems dead, it's red light. The other 2 are blue blinking, but I couldn't reset them either.

TP-Link is crap anyway. Seems like I need a new Mesh Wi-Fi Setup. What do you recommend? I have FTTP coming under the stairs (1). A switch, ethernet backhaul to each room.

It's a 2 storey townhouse, so 2 or 3 units will be needed. I have some wifi6 devices now.

TP-Link wouldn't support guest network with custom DNS, or many other modern features.

What is a good mid-range option. I have xbox, a few phones/tablets, 2 wired PCs. I run home assistant, so a bunch of IOTs as well.

I guess the M5 wasn't happy supporting so many devices? I'm not sure.

Internet Broadband FTTP nbn Wireless Router

Comments

  • oscargamer on 22/03/2023 - 21:10
    +3

    I'll take all three 'crap' devices off your hands. DM me your email and I'll even pay for postage.

  • Twix on 22/03/2023 - 21:19

    Asus and Ubiquiti have more options to tinker with. What other modern features do you want?

    • furyou on 22/03/2023 - 21:23

      I'm really not sure. I do want a guest network. I have a pihole so that doesn't work with TP-Link.
      I got a vpn recently, so not sure if I'd use vpn support.

      The mesh coverage of the M5s weren't super, somehow walking between floors cut off my phone for a sec.

      I'm not a fan of app only set up. When I was younger I used DD-WRT on a PC to set up my stuff and that convenient.

      • Twix on 22/03/2023 - 21:25

        Asus and Ubiquiti can do those things. How much do you want to spend?

        • furyou on 22/03/2023 - 21:28

          I guess I don't want to spend but I know I need to spend and get it right. One I want something that lasts more than three years.
          Have heard of Ubiquiti just from the deals here and it's a bit confusing why it's a completely different system and why it's different from everything else. And I guess why it cost so much more

          • smashman42 on 22/03/2023 - 22:07
            +1

            @furyou: Ubiquiti basically take enterprise sort of tech and package it for home power users & small business - that's why it costs more than the stuff like TP Link, Google, etc - cause it can do more. Also more modular for choosing your hardware, mix and match stuff.

            I know even less about Asus' stuff. I'm holding onto my OG wired backhaul Google WiFi till I really need WiFi6 or it dies, so I haven't paid attention to what's decent and cheap.

            • furyou on 22/03/2023 - 22:31

              @smashman42: Are these features that home users will want or need? Some of it looks really complicated

              • smashman42 on 23/03/2023 - 19:38

                @furyou: no, of course most don't need it.

                Prob is there is a gap in the market (or at least there was when I last looked) between the affordable stuff and that prosumer 5x the price stuff, so if you have a use case where the cheap ones won't do the job you end up boned and either pay the $$$ or have to just live with/work around the cheap one's limitations.

        • furyou on 22/03/2023 - 22:19

          I guess, I would like my IOT stuff on a different network to my main stuff. Not sure that's supported, I know my google speakers never worked on guest.
          And with home assistant running local tuya, etc not sure if I can. Maybe not?

          I want an easy way to save/restore settings, like routers used to do and now these app ones don't. I've just lost all my port forwards, I've lost all my address reservations so none of my home devices work.

          • Twix on 22/03/2023 - 22:27

            @furyou: There isn't really anything mid range that fits all your requirements.

            A pair of Asus RT-AX86U Pro's if you want your IoT clients on a VLAN.

            For Ubiquiti have a look at one of the following setups;

            1. UDM Pro + U6 Lite or U6 Pro wireless access point(s).
            2. UDM Pro SE + U6 Lite or U6 Pro wireless access point(s).
            3. UDR + U6 Lite or U6 Pro wireless access point(s).

            Another option is to install pfsense on a PC + Ubiquiti wireless access point(s).

            • furyou on 23/03/2023 - 00:11

              @Twix: I'm guessing the Asus is easier to set up.
              So the downstairs would be under the stairs where the FTTP comes in, and out to the switch.
              Upstairs there's a space in the landing with eth.
              Given under the stairs right in the middle of the house, the rest of the ground floor is thru many walls, I might still have weak wifi in the living room.

              Would I benefit with 1 main and 2 smaller different models around the house?
              I assume the one under the stairs needs to be most powerful if it's running the dhcp, vlans, and VPN. The others are just repeaters so shouldn't need as much?

              Why are there so many asus models?

            • l2argain on 23/03/2023 - 07:55

              @Twix: You seem fairly knowledgeable about these things. Does mesh work with starlink?

    • furyou on 24/03/2023 - 23:41

      Good news, RT-AX86U Pro under stairs can be accessed through the house, worst corners mobile measures -60dbm for 2.4ghz, and -68dbm for 5g.
      Bad news, 1 iot light switch upstairs, and the switch behind the tv cabinet in the living room still cannot connect to the Wi-Fi.

      I also often have trouble connecting to the web gui, or the android app. Basically I can connect via eth. But local wifi devices sometimes can sometimes can't. A laptop if I connect via eth 1st, then I can access web via wifi.

      • Twix on 24/03/2023 - 23:48

        Are you getting any connecting errors on the GUI? Do you have the latest firmware version 3.0.0.4.388.22525 installed?

        https://www.asus.com/au/networking-iot-servers/wifi-routers/…

        • furyou on 25/03/2023 - 07:34

          I did a check firmware and it's the latest. On Android obs it should work via wifi. Is it because I'm using pihole dns? I know when I enter the IP it changes to asus router or some other domain. Maybe pihole breaks it?

          • Twix on 25/03/2023 - 11:10

            @furyou: Remove pihole temporarily and see what happens.

        • furyou on 25/03/2023 - 10:07

          Right now, the rtax is the modem and dchp server. It sits between the house switch and the outside line.

          If I use my telstra gen 2 modem instead, put the rtax in the living room on the other side of the switch, that will help reach. But can the network be set up to work that way? The modem will try to do router stuff.

          https://imgur.com/a/xZdfIpd

          • Twix on 25/03/2023 - 11:22

            @furyou: RT-AX86U Pro is not a VDSL2 modem.

            RT-AX86U Pro is a router and you only need a router for FTTP.

            Nah the Telstra SMG2 doesn't have all the things you want. Keep the RT-AX86U Pro plugged into the nbn NTD. Look at configuring the Telstra SMG2 as a wireless access point. Eventually I would swap it to another Asus.

            • furyou on 25/03/2023 - 13:14

              @Twix: Unfortunately I cannot turn off pihole, I need it for local DNS otherwise it stuffs up a lot of other things running on my nas.
              I thought asus had nat loopback. But I duno my nas wasn't cooperating.

              I pointed router.asus.com to xxx.1.1 in pihole. Seems to be happy for now.
              Yeah need another asus upstairs. Um, Just worried there's still gonna be a dead spot in the living room. The upstairs unit may not solve this.

              I was standing by the iot light switch upstairs and my mobile said it was -40dbm, so actually shouldn't by a connectivity issue..?
              The switch behind the tv cabinet was -67dbm so maybe that's a true issue.

              It appears if I get something compatible aimesh then I can get any router and it will just use the features of the main one?
              I saw there are small extenders that might be easy to set up. But if I get a full router I will be able to try to Orient the antennas to see if it can help with the dead spots. Although with the beamforming I'm not sure it makes much difference.

              I spent a while under the stairs trying to test different antenna orientations and really only seem to vary by 2-4dbm
              may be measurement error

              • furyou on 25/03/2023 - 16:35

                @furyou: I updated to the beta software and it's solved some of the problems.

              • Twix on 25/03/2023 - 17:28

                @furyou: Don't bother with Wi-Fi extenders. You have ethernet ports so use it for ethernet backhaul. What did the beta firmware fix?

                • furyou on 25/03/2023 - 21:40

                  @Twix: fix the second guest network not connecting, and also allowed me to get the rest of my iot devices joining, and also I can join via the mobile app

                  So the 2 devices I connect. They're intermittent. The upstairs light module is actually really near above the stairs. But I saw it's right next to a silver duct that goes towards the roof maybe that is causing the wifi issue?

                  The tv, I guess it's somehow just blocked by enough gyprock & ikea chipboard? I dunno.

                • furyou on 26/03/2023 - 10:05

                  @Twix: My biggest worry is the downstairs tv. If it's not served by the pro, it won't be served by an upstairs router? Maybe it's how the antennas are angled?

                  A Wi-Fi light bulb is getting -61dbm, but is intermittently losing connection. That is not considered a bad signal right?

                  And my living room just lost signal as well. It was happy all of yesterday. Is this something else I should be checking because it's not a bad connection from that distance.

                  So I wonder if there's a way of getting the router out in the living room, without buying three of them like before

                  By extender I mean the RP-AX58 which has eth port and is compact. But costs as much as a cheaper RT-AX

                • furyou on 26/03/2023 - 14:08

                  @Twix: Since I replaced the Wi-Fi hotspot with the same ID the only difference is the new one supports WPA 2/3
                  the old one 8 guess 1/2?
                  Could that make a difference?
                  I assume that resyncing them to the new hotspot will not make any difference

                • furyou on 28/03/2023 - 17:08

                  @Twix: I have added the upstairs router with the 86u.

                  Successfully added mesh and even in the settings I tried to set the iot network to meshs.

                  The iot network using the setting in the guest network Pro. I think it blocks some communications but otherwise keeps everything on the main lan

                  Note that the u does not have the beta firmware.

                  I was only able to add one guest network to the mesh. So I added the iot has that was the one with the connection problems. How about does not seem to actually be running the radio upstairs when I check WiFiman

                  • Twix on 28/03/2023 - 21:59

                    @furyou: Changing the antennas angle won't make much difference. If the living room is using 5GHz maybe turn off Enable Smart Connect in the Wi-Fi menu and only use 2.4GHz in the living room. Play around with turning down the tx power adjustment in the Wi-Fi Professional menu to see if the Wi-Fi light bulb connects to the Asus RT-AX86U upstairs.

                    Get more ethernet installed if you want the Asus RT-AX86U Pro moved into the living room.

                    Yeah everything is on the main LAN and the IoT network is running it's own separated VLAN.

                    What do you mean by the same ID? Did you use the same Wi-Fi SSID name and password so your Wi-Fi devices automatically connected to the Asus RT-AX86U Pro?

                    Did you configure ethernet backhaul?

                    • furyou on 28/03/2023 - 23:19

                      @Twix: So I got AX86U Pro under stairs - wifi weak
                      AX86U upstairs - aimesh, ethernet backhaul - no firmware updates

                      I could only add 1 guest network to aimesh, after which it says :
                      * The WiFi interface has reached the maximum. (2.4GHz) <- what is this? Max what?
                      * These features are temporarily disabled when your AiMesh node is offline.

                      This is disappointing, since guest network pro lets you add 6 networks. One of which is IoT. Another is kids.
                      I set IoT to the aimesh.

                      After a few reboots, there's nothing coming out of AX86U upstairs, just the main network.
                      Sometimes even the main network only has 1 AP broadcasting. And once the whole IoT network was not broadcasting and i had to toggle it off and on.

                      This might be the beta bugs…

                      The latest AI mesh is supposed to share guest networks. The RT-AX86U has no update/beta firmwares.

                      So the problem is I've moved all my smart devices to ioT and I have no way to make the AX86U upstairs help out.

                      I moved one problematic iot back to the main wifi, will test out more.

                      The app doesn't seem very responsive so so for example I moved upstairs to the living room and the living room TV was still reported as -71dbm even after rebooting both routers. So it's very hard to try to test what each iot device sees. I have my solar box out front, listed as -89dbm, and listed as connected in the web UI. So I'm finding it difficult to test whether the second router is helping at all or where it should be placed.

                      I have another living room item which is a bit problematic. It's listed in the smart device app as having -69dbm. That's not bad right? So why is it failing? The AX86U upstairs won't help it.

                      • Twix on 29/03/2023 - 17:28

                        @furyou: For testing purposes get a long Ethernet cable and move the RT-AX86U Pro out from under the stairs and into the open.

                        I don't know what that Wi-Fi interface error is.

                        Yeah it maybe beta bugs. If you're not happy send it back and try Ubiquiti but you could end up with the same IoT problems.

                        • furyou on 29/03/2023 - 17:50

                          @Twix: Hmm, is that why? I thought the AX86U Pro controlled all the features (extra guest Wi-Fi networks), the outer nodes just provided the antennas.

                          It didn't indicate that any particular guest Wi-Fi could be extended, only that only 1 could be. RT-AX86U supports 3 in the box right?

                          In any case, the RT-AX86U won't even let me connect to the main wifi. It's just not working as a mesh node at all.

                          And it's extending random guest wifis, not the one I asked.

                          Asus support is non existent. In these few days, I've gotten requests to prove I have a router before they'll answer my question, then that they'll refer to an expert and get back to me one day.

                          I have a long network cable to move the fttp out to the open, but not another to connect the switch to the lan port. So not an option rt now.

                          They are so expensive, the thought of needing 2 or 3 Pros…

                        • furyou on 29/03/2023 - 20:09

                          @Twix: I just thought, maybe all the bugs are from the beta firmware? Does the Merlin firmware have the guest network pro interface?
                          https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1049414/

                          if so I can try and use Merlin on the pro. I can return the U and get something else as the satellite. if ASUS ever answers me. Since the VPN isn't working either.

                          • Twix on 29/03/2023 - 22:02

                            @furyou: Yeah you need to register the product for support.

                            That is entirely possible with early beta firmware. I don't know if Merlin has it.

                            Did the Deco have problems with those IoT clients not connecting?

                            • furyou on 30/03/2023 - 10:41

                              @Twix: Thanks for your help so far.

                              The deco was fine, because well I can't use a guest network on it - long term issue https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/forum/topic/259432.

                              I duno, am I spending too much effort trying to separate my iot devices?

                              I took off the U, since it's not doing anything.
                              I moved the UPro just 2m outside the stairs door into the laundry on the floor. The last 2 iot items have now stayed connected overnight. So it must be that couple dbm difference for the iot. Maybe I don't need an AP then? If I had a slightly stronger base station.

                              Funnily those stupid iot had -70dbm and can't connect, but another one (solar inverter) at the front of house has -89dbm and is connected.

                              Maybe the guest network pro is too new, need time to iron out bugs? I'm kinda surprised that multi guest network is new tech.
                              Also the VPN isn't working for lan connections but ok for wifi. Again not hearing from support, maybe I'll return these.

                              I'm wondering if I should try the
                              UDR + U6 Lite or U6 Pro wireless access point(s) option
                              It's small enough to fit in the current location. But not av on amazon. There's the UDM tho.

                              I assume it has the same features,
                              * multi guest network
                              * openvpn
                              * allow guest network to access intranet option
                              * custom dns server on GN - or at least use the dns on the main lan

                              Should I assume the UDR itself will have less reach than the asus external antennas?

                              Both UDM & UDR are around $450 now. I can live with wifi5 speeds, my internet is slower than that. Actually why does anyone need wifi6?

                              • Twix on 30/03/2023 - 13:10

                                @furyou: All new routers need time to iron out bugs. Asus do release regular firmware updates. Maybe you don't need a second AP. Keep testing with the RT-AX86U Pro outside the stairs.

                                I believe Ubiquiti has the things you want. Double check by emailing your full list of things to Ubiquiti support and the Ubiquiti community forums. UDR will probably have less reach than the RT-AX86U Pro.

                                • furyou on 30/03/2023 - 18:41

                                  @Twix: After a few more failed attempts and multiple reboots I moved back to the non beta firmware. Even though all they did was move the guest network to a new interface it seems to have introduced several bugs.

                                  In any case the iot devices are staying connected using the old firmware.

                                  Testing out the VPN though, if I put both the nas and the desktop through the VPN, then the desktop can no longer reach the pihole on the nas. It can't reach the nas via internal ip either. Is there any way of fixing this? I would like the torrents on the nas to use the VPN.

                                  • Twix on 30/03/2023 - 21:43

                                    @furyou: I can't help there as I don't use Pihole.

  • Shadowsfury on 22/03/2023 - 21:21
    +1

    I;ve been happy with both the original Google WiFi and newer Google Nest WiFi (set up in two homes)

    • furyou on 22/03/2023 - 21:26

      When I first got this I also looked over Wi-Fi but I didn't like that it didn't have Ethernet backhaul. I wasn't sure because the problem is the Wi-Fi is unstable, so if I depended on Wi-Fi back haul it didn't seem to make sense.

      In my rooms I only have one Ethernet so I wanted to be able to plug in at least one more device through the Ethernet cable. How is the technology now?

      • Twix on 22/03/2023 - 21:28

        Google products don't have what you want and Google Nest Wi-Fi is app based.

      • jv on 22/03/2023 - 22:10
        +1

        it didn't have Ethernet backhaul.

        It does have it…

        I have mine set up with it…

        Only if you use an additional router though, not a point…

        I have 2 routers and 3 points to cover the house, garage and shed.

  • jv on 22/03/2023 - 22:10
    +1

    Google Nest

  • mrkorrupt on 22/03/2023 - 23:22

    my colleague had same issue, he opened the bad one up and reset it from inside somehow

  • rumblytangara on 22/03/2023 - 23:40

    Midrange? Probably Asus AIMesh as they are repurposed routers that seem to keep a fair bit of functionality. Pretty much… nothing else that I'd trust.

    (I would not run Ubiquiti gear ever again, I replaced all mine because it was too unreliable in many ways)

  • kfp187 on 23/03/2023 - 06:36

    Ubiquiti is great but most it’s overkill.

    It’s a shame the tplink didn’t work out. Do you require wifi 6?

    You mentioned you have a switch, Ethernet backhaul going to each of the rooms. Why don’t you save yourself a heap of money and buy some Telstra modems and root them and run as wifi boosters. $20-50 each.

    Gives you additional Ethernet points also for each room. Run the modem that’s connected to the FTTP and have a SIM card in there if it ever drops (not that it really should) you have a backup.

    Unfortunately on the rooted modems setup as wifi boosters won’t share guest wifi. You could buy the actual wifi boosters (little harder to find) and they will allow guest wifi.
    Gives you some tinkering etc to play with also… if you have home phone you can use that, wireguard, AdGuard etc.

    • furyou on 23/03/2023 - 09:25

      Yes there's a switch under the stairs and runs Ethernet to each of the rooms. Actually I'm not sure, wifi boosters vs mesh wifi?

      If anything, Telstra modem w/ SIM card isn't working well under the stairs, many walls to outside. The area isn't great for 4G anyway, kinda small valley. It would want to be next to an outside wall.

  • Bid Sniper on 23/03/2023 - 09:29

    Been using Xiaomi ax3000 mesh system, been great over the year I've had it. Cheap but really good, can set custom DNS

  • emmabravo on 23/03/2023 - 11:48

    Asus ZenWiFi AX is probably the best of the bunch. Be prepared to pay ~$900 for it though.

    PC Mag did a solid review of it here: https://au.pcmag.com/wi-fi-mesh-networking-system/67171/asus…

    • furyou on 23/03/2023 - 12:19

      ZenWiFi, how is it different from other routers with AiMesh ?
      Is it just packaged in a more 'mesh blob' style w/o antennas?

      • Twix on 23/03/2023 - 13:37
        +1

        Asus ZenWiFi has a cleaner design with internal antennas. Asus XT8 doesn't do separate VLANs.

  • kinpe on 23/03/2023 - 12:19

    Just installed Nest wifi pro, pretty happy with it so far.

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