Hey fellas,
Was wondering you guys think about buying the GWM Haval Jolion or Ute for the long run. Toyota is just unjustifiably expensive and the queue is very long. I plan to keep the car for a while and since this is a relatively new Chinese company I was wondering what others thought of it. Would appreciate pros and cons from people who already have the car.
Test drive a Mahindra: Your life will never be the same again!
Somehow that sounds like someone got into a pretty bad accident after a test drive at the dealership.
have you drive Mahindra? want to drive thier new XUV 700
I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not lmao
Sarcastic? I have travelled India in different cars. Most popular one there is Suzuki.
Toyota sells a low cost version there where the seatbelt is paper thin, speedo in the middle if it ever works. Driving a diesel tourist car is illegal in Delhi but still felt safer in a Suzuki than a Toyota. There are just a few Tata Nano's left that have not caught fire yet. They also love Volvo's for their thick steel. Not many Tesla's yet. But Italian Piaggio got them to build their stuff under license. If the landscape is hilly they use 500cc Kohler single cylinder diesel engines with no pollution control. In India we had seen the largest engineering schools. Eventually they will get it right. Many small cities had long given up on speed signs and just create home made speed bumps. With kids as young as 3 in perfect white school uniforms they eventually will take over the world with knowledge. Look who is running the larger 2 countries out of (former) Great Brittan!
Jesus, what a rambling pile of word salad that was.
You went from talking about cars in India, to their engineering schools, then onto their lack of speed bumps before finally capping it off with a bizarre #thefutureisIndian prophecy.
Is that a page out of your journal or do you have a specific variant of tourette's syndrome where you uncontrollably rattle off random moments from your holidays for no reason?
@Gnostikos: He did… but with correct capitalisation in his sentences eventually he will get it right!
Remember this in everything you buy from this day forward:
"Buy cheap = buy twice"
Or pay double and never buy again
which sounds like it suits you because you are looking for a long term vehicle
.
Better than pay 4x and buy 4x i suppose, looking at you out of warranty euros
Or buy cheap and have headache for ever.
This is terrible advice. By this logic you should only buy the most expensive thing every single time.
It completely ignores price/performance. Sometimes the cheapest thing is by far the best option.
@DingoBilly
Make up your mind if you're going to reply. You believe it's either:
A) Buy the most expensive thing every time
OR
B) 'Sometimes' buy the cheapest thing
I'm stating that people are generally only driven by price, especially in todays economic climate.
I'm saying that the CHEAPEST isn't always the best option if you're after longevity and care about the planet more than stopping the use of plastic bags at the checkout!
It amazes me how people stampede for a K-mart 'life-changer' as seen on TikTok…….only to see it on nature strips 12mths later as hard rubbish.
No one considers value for money or "end of life" scenarios…….where will it end up when little Johnnie gets bored and tries another toy or hobby?
My ozbargain membership isn't threatened by only buying the most expensive item, I consider wants, needs, budget and purpose. I want to leave the planet in better shape than I found it. 🙏👌
I think you completely missed the point of my post. Try re-reading it because it basically says the same thing as what you said.
@Smokie1969
I’m only here for the popcorn and “China car bad” and “you’re just giving the CCP money” comments from the knuckle draggers.
since this is a relatively new Chinese company…
GWM was founded in the mid 80’s and has been in Australia since about 2010.
Pro: it’s cheap.
Con: it’s cheap.
Shhhh, don’t tell Leadfoot that.Apparently we are about to be ‘invaded’ in the near future.Some people are really weird!
Oh, no, you have to believe what leadfoot says… Just remember, they are the one of only 2 worldwide moderators on an automotive forum… Being a moderator makes them an expert… And they once build a car out of old hornet's nets, fencing wire and some corrugated iron that went on to hold the lap record at Bathurst for 29 years.
Surprised there wasn't some link to some right wing, echo chamber, conspiracy theory boomer website…
You, likewise, need to keep more up to date with world affairs.
Please note that Australian governments, state and federal, are rolling out their bans of TikTok and cutting off Chinese cameras located on government buildings.
Did I mention the spending on submarines, influenced largely by the Chinese threat to the Asia/Pacific region?
Australia bought subs to keep daddy Biden happy.
Can China sell weapons to Palestine? How about some subs to Cuba? :)
Oh wait.
The USA is the best friend that we have.
LEARN SOME HISTORY.
Better buy those submarines to keep our trade ships safe against China until they securely reach China avoiding Chinese threats.
I purposely keep my exposure to Chinese products to an absolute minimum.
I won't be affected as much as some might be post invasion or major confrontation with an Asia/Pacific nation.
I have a jolion, it's been great, almost 2 years since I got it and havent had any issues.
It isnt perfect like japanese cars, the user interface on touch screen and the automatic transmission talking to the engine, but that is not something that would stop the car from being driven around. It works fine, its only the experience. If you are able to let go those minor imperfections then the car is a great optio given the features you get for the price you pay.
If possible I would recommend to get h6 as it has a bigger engine and better efficiency than jolion so in long run it will be good.
Let me share my experience with Haval as one of the founders in anz. The vehicles are really well built using trued and tested technology from other brands and reputable suppliers. They are built really well and the 7 year warranty is not dealer dependant. They are however built for Chinese roads - flat and smooth. They have come a long way since 2015 and I would suggest they are comparable to quality Japanese brands. They are incredibly safe. Limitations- the engines require strict servicing, don’t even think about skipping one. Parts can be hard to get so bear that in mind as there are few aftermarket parts alternatives. Some of the infotainment is Chinese orientated. If you look at their wey brand, you can see where they are going with quality and luxury. The gwm Ute is a good product despite the small engine - tough and reliable and an unlimited km 7 year warranty. I’d put Haval and GWM well ahead of MG and Ldv for product quality. Hope this helps!
Is it really reliable for going 150+ k's on?
This question can't really be answered given they haven't been in the market for too long. For the UTE the question should really be is it realiable to 350k up to 20 years. 150k is for a simple family car, not for a work horse.
The vehicles are really well built using trued and tested technology from other brands and reputable suppliers
Really? VW and Ford (The worlds largest and fifth largest car companies) have had countless issues with their dual clutch transmissions. Ford's ditched them.
Haval only offers their Jolion and H6 with DCTs.That alone is enough to put me off considering one.
"They are incredibly safe."
Not according to the reviews (with issues hinted at in one expert review I read) on productreview.com.au…
"I’m constantly…driving different make cars and I found the Haval Jolion the worst car I’ve ever driven. This car should be banned from our roads due to safety reasons."
"Very scary feeling when the lane assist just about pulls the steering wheel out of your hands…"
"not really safe while driving! You also have to go through all the settings to turn off lane assist every single time u get in! Cruise controll freaks out when taking a corner and will slam on the breaks while half way into the bend! Super dangerous in my opinion! "
So far I’ve only really experienced two brands of these safety assist features. Isuzu that I drive regularly does much the same as described above. Will push you back into a lane at times, auto braking occasionally beeps and warns you when there’s trees ahead on a curve. Toyota system also beeps and warns you in similar situations.
Lane keep seems to be a bone in a lot of cars now, pulling too hard and bouncing around. You can generally turn it off or down to vibrate only.
It’s probably worth joining whatever FB group is around for owners and searching their posts. Any dirty linen is generally aired and contextualised. If you ignore the minor issue loonies and the fanboyz you’ll see a trend. If the general issues that the car has (and every brand/model has some) are not awful and well supported it’s probably OK.
FWIW I would personally have a really good look at the offerings from the Middle Kingdom if I was buying, but focus on whether the local importer product support was acceptable. GWM have received the odd (very) bad review, but so have most Aussie importers
I would suggest FB is the worst way to get any idea whatsoever about this brand. There is only one way to do it. You just have to wait 10 years. No one has a crystal ball especially the jokers on FB.
There are folk on FB who say stupid things, and there are quite a few that are pretty reasonable. After you watch any FB page the W⚓️s show through. OZB is similar….
These things have been around a few years now, there are plenty of owners to give experience.
I have a Haval H6 for about a year. No problems. One complaint; I live in an area where the roads are narrow. The Lane Keeping is over active and every time it THINKS it has a problem it sounds an obnoxious bong bong at high volume. It is a PITA and I have to turn it off every time I start the engine.
Any issues with engine or servicing?
I have a Haval H6 for about a year. No problems.
90% of the people replied here does not own GWM car and yet saying negative things about it LOL…..
I own it 2 years into it, great car and no issues. Take care of your car and drive properly and the car will treat you well too.
Just because it's good for 2 years doesn't mean anything. Just because you own one of their cars don't mean anything either. There is no large datasets for these cars and you are gambling when you buy one especially for the long term like 20 years.
I predict Haval/GWM won't even be here in 20 years let alone your car which would have certainly rusted in that time.
It takes years so companies to perfect cars. These cars are NOT made for Australian extreme conditions.
They'll just rebrand in a few years time
Just because you own one of their cars don't mean anything either.
lol…did you even read OP's writing in the first place?
predict
lol…
These cars are NOT made for Australian extreme conditions
another lol….define extreme condition? I have never issues with driving it during Australian extreme weather conditions
He's referring to the speed bumps at the local shopping centre carpark.
Unless he's assuming people are taking their haval jolions through the Simpson desert
He's referring to the speed bumps at the local shopping centre carpark.
The people who complain about this is the kind of people who never slowdown when approaching the speed bumps. I never have any issues with my haval and it feels comfortable
The company was founded in the 80's…what makes you think they will collapse shortly after being around for 4 decades?
GWM is the biggest SUV car maker in China. Chinese market is bigger than EU/USA/AU combined.
This is the issue. Chinese people have very low standards for what they produce for local consumption.
2 years is very young for a modern car. How many kms has it done?
entering 25k km. I think I drive long enough to give my opinion about the car.
Of course it's not all perfect.. for what it's priced, the car is excellent.
There's a Rodeo in our broader family, still licensed and going,doesn't use oil. Original injectors and clutch. It has done 530,000 kms since new (2002).
Most of those kms prior to 2 years ago. Has not been babied or tortured. If you haven't already done so, install a Provent catch can, not a cheap replica.Use GOOD oil.
You don't always need to own a $(insert price of gwm) worth of goods to have a positive or negative opinion on it based on user reviews i guess?
If it has a timing belt, and it needs valves adjusting every 30K kms it could be a PIA.I wish more diesels in modern cars were equipped with timing chains or gears.
It's hard so to find a PROPERLY trade qualified auto mechanic these days.Let alone an honest and diagnostically gifted one. If you can start out with a better car, go that way. Even a second hand option. Just factor in per make model known issues, read reviews, price common parts and servicing, and decide from there.
If you go this way, always use good engine oils and filters. And have the cooling system flushed every 100K kms, and I would even consider a new water pump every timing belt change. I don't trust Chinese bearings
.All pros and con comments aside>
If you are buying a once in 15-20 year car I think you already know your answer.I doubt the values holds up at trade in.
Imagine if the timing belt broke? :) Fun times. Hopefully they have chains.
Most of the cheaper imports are belts (I think)
I agree with you that I will get one if it's given to me for free. That would be a ok.
Thanks for the input, I am not interested in second hand car because of two consecutive bad experiences. I can't really buy a Toyota because 2 year waiting period which is literally insane.
The price isn't justified for Toyotas, nor is the wait.
Take the gamble, treat it well and put cash aside for the worst case scenario.
Just remember things like suspension can be after-marketed, so get quality stuff if you do .
Cheap sensors will be weak points, so read a lot of forums, and source your parts from OS suppliers. Start googling that stuff before you buy.There may be patterns to what's failing and where /how ppl fix it.
What a pity pp aren't doing Isuzu engine/ g-box conversions into other makes/models.
Everyone is going nuts for waits, unless you're lucky enough to get in stock. Talking to the dealer I ordered an MG from and they are quoting 7 months now, it was 3 in January (on the EV anyway), and have cars in port that arrived in early Feb. MG are probably similar to Haval in terms of market share, importing etc
My car was set for early April and the best chance I currently have of getting it any time soon it seems is if they decide to import to Adelaide and truck it over.
Basically go in stock or you've got a wait on your hands
I have a 2021 Haval Jolion Ultra (the year Jolion replaced H2) with 48k on the clock so my experience would be as close to a long term review as possible.
Engine and transmission: Not smooth in low gears with turbo lag. Its 7-speed DCT is not the smartest, sometimes not changing into the most suitable gear when cruise control is engaged, making the car surge when it's in low gears at times, especially in stop-go situations. If you are gentle with the acceleration so the turbo can smoothly kick in, it won't happen or be like me, get a throttle controller unit. But no fault with the engine or transmission whatsoever until now, no smoke, engine rattle or such. Engine is thirsty (not refined enough) at 8.6L/100km average over 48k but every close to the claimed figures of 8.5. This is where you get what you pay for but I can live with that. It's not a Huyndai N or Audi Quattro engine but I never expect it to be so no problem there.
Safety: Brilliant. It has all the bells and whistles that you should want in a modern car. Though it's not the best, i.e most common negs are slowing down at a bend while on cruise control, beeping sound when your car is too close to the car in front, fatigue system alert annoys you, you can turn it off if you don't like it. It works as intended and I'm grateful for it. Most people who own this car (from my experience in FB owners group) are old and not tech savvy so their experience is worse than mine. The premium you'd have to pay for the same safety features in a Toyota is insane.
Ride comfort: Test drive one and see for yourself. All I can say is the suspension is not to the level I want and the turning is a bit sharp (not smooth when you return the wheel from a turn) but I've learnt to adjust. I have no complaint from my passengers(I actively ask for feedback)
Build quality: Not to your Toyota level but definitely better than a MG. I can see low quality welding joints here and there, paint chips (could be me doing a lot of highway driving behind trucks) but nothing to complain interior wise. I'll update more as time goes by. No rust or pieces fallen off yet.
Resale value: I tend to keep it for a while so haven't looked into it but it doesn't have a strong resale value like your Japanese. But with a lower buying point and shorter wait time, I'd be realistic in its resale value. My insurance has the car valued at current market price of $36-$38k while carsales instant offer is currently $18-$20k so take the numbers into consideration too.
Would I buy the car again? Yes I would, given the time and money. I paid $26k for it second hand and for that money, I don't think I could find a similar car for what I need in 2022. I have limited funds and would like my money to be used elsewhere than all in a car.
My background, for demographic purposes: 25M, Asian, has only driven/tried Ford Mondeo, Toyota RAV4, Honda Civic and Mercedes E class.
Good point. $26k is reasonable price for that compromise. TBH I would rather pay $43 for Toyota RAV4 and pocket the $20k in 20 years when I sell it on.
But the overall loss over a 20 year period seems to be similar (especially when bought second hand) as long as there are no catastrophic repairs required.
I disagree that safety stuff costs much more in a Toyota. All safety tech is standard across their range.
Toyota only offers resale value, and reliability which is great but for 50k getting an ancient looking car, fabric seats and no constant service price. I would rather have comfort and a better experience rather than reliability
I would rather have comfort and a better experience rather than reliability
Then why bother with this thread? Just go buy a Haval.
If I can afford 43k for a RAV4 then in all honesty, I'd probably get it. I didn't want to get into a loan so I settled for the Jolion at 26k.
IIRC, don't you have to pay extra for Rear Cross Traffic Alert in the Corolla range?
Hmm not sure about the cross traffic. My RAV4 GXL 2022 has it. That's silly if toyota are charging for it. Leather seats I understand but safety should be standard for goodness sake.
Thanks for this, really helps out. What do you think of the rather weak engine, does the pick up and speed bother you? Does it struggle with heavy load on it? Compared to the Rav 4 how much worse is it? If you bought it again would you go second hand or brand new?
Appreciate it mate
I've just in a throttle controller unit today to overcome that lag. Before the throttle controller, if I want to pick up really fast from stationary then I'd switch it to sports mode and then back to normal when at speed. It's not ideal, but a workaround. It can still handle short merge lane in short time don't get me wrong, but if you want to car to smoothly pick up speed from a red light, realistically you'll be around 2 seconds behind the car in front. If that's something you can live with, that's good. If not, get a throttle controller like me.
I have not towed the car but from many FB posts, depending on your load it can tow. It has roof rack so your normal bicycle or kayak is no stress, a full trailer the size you can borrow from a servo is ok but not with a caravan. You'll need more torque than what the Jolion can produce, no way else around that.
I'd say the RAV4 excels in city driving with its great fuel economy and better turning in city streets but once you get used to the Jolion, not a whole lot, and definitely not $20k better.
The Jolion range hasn't changed much in terms of engine, build except the new S and Hybrid model. I'd go for the Hybrid if I have the money but only if you intend to keep it for a good 10 years to make your money back. My second hand purchase was from a dealership where the car was bought brand new from so I have service history and a bit more confidence in the car. If I could buy again, I'd still buy second hand if I could, but only if it has low mileage. The people who sell a near-new Jolion would be people who don't like it anymore or have financial problems so it shouldn't reflect the status of the car. Because the Jolion devalues more (Chinese perception), it's a better deal to buy second hand as it devalues buy 20% out the door.
Hope it helps.
Safety: Brilliant. …. Though it's not the best,
Can’t have it both ways! It’s either brilliant or well appointed but with lower quality tech.
My apology! Will keep that in mind
I think the second generation of Havals
H6, Jolion, LDV T60 etc are all a vast improvement on the previous generation which were awkwardly styled and never really that great a value prospect.
I personally was looking at a H6 and was impressed with the fit and finish, 7 year warranty does fill me with hope (even if ICE cars will be hit hard with depreciation over then next 10 years). The reviews seem to be pretty good as well, bar a few of the old generation with gripes. The cruise control seems to stand out as an annoyance. Other than that i'd probably gamble on one given the warranty.
The LDV is from SAIC, not GWM.
*Sorry, Cannon is the equivalent isn't it.
Yup, you summed it up how I think of it, great finish - debatable reliability. Even with the warranty, its common in brands like these to see complaints about extremely long wait times for spare parts.
@JJtoTheRadio: Wierd though as spare parts are ALL made in China??!! Aren't they just getting parts from common OEM manufacturers??
The cruise control issue isn't actually a proper one. The manual tells you that you need to control it around corners. I anticipate the corner and accelerate accordingly.
If you Support the CCCP.
In this case, I would rather spend the money on a 2 year old CX5/3 or equivalent than commit to a Chinese car. I just spent 3 months in a MG ZG. The longer I spent in it, the more "cheap Chinese" revealed itself and I kept saying Im glad I didnt spend my money on this.
The resale alone keeps me away from chinese cars (for now), although BYD does have a great value prop and plenty of happy customers on the FB groups
The vehicles from China are improving every year but personally i wouldnt spend my money on one let every one else be the guinea pigs.
In a few years i might consider it.
There are other options than Toyota which are overpriced.
What other options?
He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. There’s re only Chinese cars or Toyotas. Nothing else.
I drove the GWM Ute about a year and a half ago and was pretty impressed. Hated you couldn't turn the lane keep assist off though, but it felt nice enough to drive. They seem to get decent enough reviews.
Ended up with a musso instead, probably cop some shit for that but I'm happy with it.
The Chinese makers will definitely get better but my understanding Chinese OEM brands struggle with the high end tech that other countries seem to have down pat, like the Koreans, Americans, and the Japanese. Why that is I don’t know, but I wonder if it’s not because there has historically been a lot of foreign investment and direction for the Chinese automotive market, and not necessarily a lot of indigenous innovation by the Chinese themselves.
At the current rate I'm unsure 7 years warranty will mean a whole lot. If/when China invades Taiwan then western countries will sanction it as hard, if not more so than the Russians.
Owners can pretty much kiss any warranty goodbye.
western sanctions… is that why the EU leaders are breaking rank with the US and lining up to visit China to promote trade? the west isn't going to sanction China, the US could by weaponise the dollars, but the chinese are also seeking alternatives.
We couldn’t put sanctions on China. We rely too heavily on them for goods. Russia makes diddly squat other than oil that the rest of the world needs.
i don't think so, USA relies heavily on china. china pretty much owns USA if they would collect on american debt. though they wouldn't since you wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds you. USA is china's biggest customer, and they wouldn't want to lose that just yet.
Father bought one and parts are a problem to get replaced. Parts are falling off the car, even the driver mirror fell off. Worst piece of junk on the road. Ideals bad after 15k and service is a pain to fix anything. Would avoid at all costs. I told him it was a bad idea but he wanted something cheap. He got rear ended and was a right off and was the best part of the car as he got some of his money back.
its cheaper then the alternative, but with the cheaper cost comes with the unknown history. also replacement parts are harder to get with chinese manufacturer, you have to be very patient for them to order it in for you.
if you are considering this, then you are too poor to afford the more expensive vehicles, and pretty much already made your decision to get it.
i might consider it in 10 years after we have some long term performance history on them, but i don't want to be one of the first to get it. also resale value sucks hard on these, so also consider getting it used to get a great deal. i was going to get a toyota, but ended up getting a brand new mitsubishi because i have a 10 year warranty and capped service. now i am at peace for the next 10 years. also it puts me right in line to switch over to EV when they make it mandatory law to own one.
Thanks Huge boy, that sums it up but Mitzy are far too expensive.
replacement parts are harder to get with chinese manufacturer
GWM recently claimed they have all necessary parts in Australia.
go stop by your local super cheap and that will tell you how available those parts are, lol.
I joined a couple of the Facebook groups for Haval owners to check it out.
Cruise control is very important to me and their disaster of an adaptive cruise control really put me off. Incidentally I believe Mercedes or some other expensive vehicle has some similar issues. They are basically trying to get it to slow for corners and things as well, but the technology doesn’t seem to be there and it slows down way too much. There has been an update and this was sufficient for some people and others were still not happy. The update required taking the vehicle to the dealer. It is possible there will be (or even has been, it was a while ago when I was looking) more updates that fix or improve the issue.
How good your local dealer is seems to be a huge part of how happy you will be with your purchase. One person had some issues and their dealer worked at figuring it out until it was fixed. Another dealer was brushing off someone who had issues.
Anyway, I ended up deciding to get a Hyundai Kona. It doesn’t have as many features as the Havals, but it's been solid so far. If it weren't for the cruise control issues I might have gone for a Haval.
Kona is solid choice.
Not only that but they've deliberately under-specced it compared to the competition.
That's an accounting decision, not an engineering one, making the engine work harder to achieve the same real world result.
Just like Korean cars, at some stage they'll tip over from being cheap, poorly made cars to cheap, well made cars. I'm just not convinced that we're there yet.