Tenant Trashed Rental Property and Has Done a Runner - Tips

MementoMori on 05/05/2023 - 22:45

Hi guys, hope you're all well!

I've got a situation where a long term tenant has moved out of my property, leaving the place in a complete disaster - holes in practically every wall, significant damage over and above fair wear and tear (not 'malicious' as such, just filthy pigs) and lots of hard rubbish on the property, junk in the backyard, garden overgrown and in a very bad state.

I estimate around $10,000 - 12,000 to get it back to a basic, rentable standard (inc. lost rent).

The place was professionally managed by a Harcourts in SE Melbourne.

I was very surprised to hear there is no bond, during a changeover (tenant?) of some kind the tenant was refunded their bond a new one was not collected! I also asked the PM why the holes in the wall were not fixed during the tenancy and was told they deal with that during tenant move out… also a surprise.

I have up to date Tenant Insurance through Terri Scheer. I have had the property for 10+ years and it has been insured most of this time, although I am concerned Terri Scheer might cause issues with my claim because I only renewed the policy a month ago after having it expire for 1-2 years previously (pure coincidence - over the years I forgot to pay the renewal from time to time but it has been mostly insured).

The tenant is a real ACA type, who has threatened legal action over a hole in the bathroom floor. This was caused by the tenants negligence, allowing water to sit on the bathroom floor over the years causing it to rot through. It was 'made safe' ASAP (the same or next day) we were notified of the issue, which caused me to then look further into what was going on here then shortly after the tenant moved out.

The tenant is blocked all contact, has verbally said she doesn't have to do anything and has bought a new property somewhere.

Anyway, while emotionally it's a real blow - I understand I just need to clean it, fix it and get it rented ASAP as well as trying to claim as much as possible through insurance and VCAT.

Can anyone who has been through this offer any tips and tricks?

Thank you

Home & Garden

Comments

            • MementoMori on 09/05/2023 - 23:48
              +1

              @idonotknowwhy: Refused to fix…? I fixed it the day or day after it was reported

              Do people even read posts these days?

      • SBOB on 06/05/2023 - 08:09
        +34

        I'd your builder didn't waterproof your shower floor area, include a floor waste, and sufficient quality construction that walking out of a shower over time results in a rotted out floor with a hole in it… Thats not a tenant problem.

      • pegaxs on 06/05/2023 - 09:15
        +36

        How is your shit floor sealing the tenants fault?

        My god, landlords are the worst. If you are that precious about your property, don’t rent it out.

        • hueylewis on 06/05/2023 - 19:12
          -2

          so trashing the place is how they deal with it?

          • Eeples on 07/05/2023 - 20:28
            +2

            @hueylewis: Comment on the landlord failing to seal the bathroom floor… and someone might listen to you about the alleged 'trashing'.

            • MementoMori on 09/05/2023 - 23:50

              @Eeples: Failing to seal?

              I didn't build the house. It's not a brand new house. Things (such as waterproof membranes in bathrooms) break over time (decades).

            • hueylewis on 23/07/2023 - 12:58

              @Eeples: so revenge is the way to deal with it? ok. got it.

        • nujee on 07/05/2023 - 07:01
          -4

          Wow- asking people to behave like normal people makes op precious!!? Don’t rent it out? lol that will fix the rental crises. Ahh greens supporters are the funniest

          • idonotknowwhy on 07/05/2023 - 10:29
            +9

            @nujee: LOL at thinking pegaxs is a greens supporter

            • pegaxs on 08/05/2023 - 19:27
              +4

              @idonotknowwhy: I wanna know how we jumped from OP trying to control how a tenant dries off after a shower because OP didn't pay enough to have a better sealed bathroom floor, to me being a greens supporter.

              I tell ya… I buy one EV…

              For the record, I would vote for the LNP before I voted for the Greens. Hell, I would vote for the "Drip dry in the shower before you get out onto a landlord's badly sealed bathroom floor Party" before I voted for the Greens.

        • tomfool on 08/05/2023 - 10:39
          +1

          He did say he fixed it when he was notified. The tenant should report any issues they find so they can be repaired, blaming the landlord for not fixing something they were not aware of is a little harsh. It sounds like the RE was rubbish as well.

      • PVA on 06/05/2023 - 12:19
        +4

        That sounds like a poorly built or maintained home, not a tenant problem at all.

      • Rukiata on 07/05/2023 - 18:06
        +1

        OP are you lying? I want to know the full story here. and hear the tenants side of things.

        sounds like an old house and issues you never fixed or upgraded?

        • Rukiata on 09/05/2023 - 00:07

          Why are you not showing proof op?

          • MementoMori on 09/05/2023 - 23:52

            @Rukiata: Huh?

            The house was built in 1990, it's 33 years old. Built by a reputable builder.

            All reported maintenance was tended to promptly and professionally, but no major renovations.

            What else would you like to know?

      • max900 on 08/05/2023 - 20:29

        Never heard of new build with tiles over wood? I thought modern houses are built with concrete flooring.

        • MementoMori on 09/05/2023 - 23:53

          It is not a 'new build', but I built it back in the day (therefore adding to the rental supply, as per AustriaBargains standards of what makes a good person or not… but he's still unhappy)

      • no not me on 10/05/2023 - 00:01

        If you own a bathroom with tiles laid directly on top of chipboard that’s your fault. Maybe you should have sealed the grout or better get, get a bathroom fitted out to Australia’s already lenient building standards.

    • serpserpserp on 07/05/2023 - 09:04
      +3

      Fortunately these insurance companies can see through landlords whom forget to renew then suddenly do it and make a claim.

      Little landlord increasing rents and cutting corners elsewhere. Then when something goes wrong, start paying for insurance again and try and claim! lol.

      Can you imagine them explaining to the insurer over the phone that they "forgot" to pay their insurance for a couple of years? Like a child explaining that their homework got eaten by their dog.

      • MementoMori on 09/05/2023 - 23:55
        +1

        Sounds like you have zero property experience?

        LL insurance is $1.5k a year. You get a situation like this once every 10 perhaps, which costs $10-15k to fix. The excess is $1,000 and also the insurer refuses to claim all kinds of items, sometimes giving you about $500-1,000 after all is said and done (as described above).

        It's not clear cut financial decision to have it or not - many choose to self insure.

        • serpserpserp on 10/05/2023 - 20:50

          Yes. A lot like car insurance or home insurance. Similar cost, never claim. In fact, you are more likely to claim on LL insurance if a once in ten year incidence.

          I guess some people don't really think things through. They pay the price of their "self insurance" like in this instance.

    • DrScavenger on 09/05/2023 - 02:52

      Let me root for the agency to stick to the landlord

  • coffeeinmyveins on 05/05/2023 - 23:31
    +44

    although I am concerned Terri Scheer might cause issues with my claim because I only renewed the policy a month ago after having it expire for 1-2 years previously (pure coincidence - over the years I forgot to pay the renewal from time to time but it has been mostly insured).

    I love how you own a property but lack a basic understanding of how insurance works

    Why would they cover you for things that happened during the lapsed period? That's not how insurance works and they'll claim these were pre existing conditions.

    You're SOL

    This was caused by the tenants negligence, allowing water to sit on the bathroom floor over the years causing it to rot through

    What sort of poorly constructed bathroom pools enough water that this happens?

    Sounds like there's more to the story

    • AustriaBargain on 05/05/2023 - 23:45
      +27

      although I am concerned Terri Scheer might cause issues with my claim because I only renewed the policy a month ago after having it expire for 1-2 years previously (pure coincidence - over the years I forgot to pay the renewal from time to time but it has been mostly insured).

      Lol, I missed that. This has the makings of an OZB hall of fame post. I wonder how long until OP deletes it.

        • Motek Benzona on 06/05/2023 - 07:58
          +21

          Do the world a favour and stop moaning. Sell your house to someone who acually lives here and p off into oblivion..and of course i mean that very nicely

          • MementoMori on 09/05/2023 - 23:56
            +1

            @Motek Benzona: Geez when did OzB turn into Antifa?

            It's my house, I will live in it when I return to Australia.

            Is that OK with you now? Please can I have your approval!!!

        • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2023 - 01:36
          +6

          As others have said, any investment comes with risk. There's businesses closing down right now left right and centre. There was a post about the cashback one this morning. You aren't special princess, even if our politicians have deluded you into believing you are. Perhaps sell the house and split your money between a few savings accounts if you want things to be safe and easy. Take advantage of interest rises since you can't be bothered to put in the effort to learn how insurance works.

        • coffeeinmyveins on 07/05/2023 - 16:04
          +2

          I'm here genuinely looking for advice

          Don't come to OZB for advice about dealing with your investment property when there are professionals that offer this advice?

        • Eeples on 07/05/2023 - 20:30
          +4

          Claiming for damage before the insurance is in place is fraud.

          Just so you know.

        • ThithLord on 08/05/2023 - 08:20

          I don't suffer from the same pride issue you seem to have.

          We know, you admitted to being a LL

      • payless69 on 06/05/2023 - 01:56
        +4

        Terri and Gerry what a Rhyme.
        Looks like a Sheer disaster.

      • garetz on 06/05/2023 - 08:47
        +31

        No the claim is reduced to 0%, if it wasn't insured at the time of the damage then you get nothing, zilch, nada.

        The insurance company will send over someone to investigate the damage, if they find the damage precludes your insurance covering then you will not be getting any coverage. They will probably also get a statement from your tenant if possible.

      • PVA on 06/05/2023 - 12:20
        +7

        You are not covered. The problems you say happened before you insured one month ago.

      • redfox1200 on 06/05/2023 - 18:48
        +5

        Never had an issue with my insurer, the one claim I had just submitted a receipt and was paid within a day or two, no questions asked.

        But only insuring your property 80% of the time is as good as insuring it 0% of the time, because you cannot prove when the damage happened.

      • serpserpserp on 07/05/2023 - 09:07
        +2

        You didn't have the property insured over the period the incident happened. Therefore you cannot claim.

        Also if the water had been pooling for years, you had a long time to make a claim already.

        Time to own your mistake and move on.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 07/05/2023 - 16:07
        +3

        So if property was insured for 50% of the period, then the claim is reduced by 50%?

        How is it that you continue to have a basic lack of understanding about insurance policies, but seemed to have enough money for a property? lol

        It's nothing to do with periods or durations. If you have insurance it covers you for the time that the insurance policy is active but NEVER for when the insurance was NOT ACTIVE. These are called "pre-existing conditions" and are outside the scope of the insurance policy.

        The #1 thing I know about insurance is that it's usually useless

        As someone that works in the insurance sector I can say that insurance policies are completely useFULL for the range of things covered, but yes insurance companies will weasel out of whatever they can. They are a business at the end of the day, not a charity.

    • MementoMori on 06/05/2023 - 00:15
      -7

      It's an average, normal house in SE Melbourne built by a reputable builder (Simmons). There is nothing more to the story.

      Gee, what a negative and vicious community OzB has become…

      • Breno785au on 06/05/2023 - 17:10
        +13

        More like we just don't buy bs stories. We like to save cash, as well as brain cells.

      • gromit on 06/05/2023 - 18:38
        +15

        well there is definitely more to the story. No properly built bathroom pools water on the floor. Either bad construction, some fatally bad maintenance or the tenant has done something to block the drain?

      • nujee on 07/05/2023 - 07:21
        +2

        Yeah it’s appalling. So called community and some of them are actually cheering the damage and want to buy the person who did it a beer. Waste of oxygen

        • coffeeinmyveins on 07/05/2023 - 16:10
          +3

          So called community

          OZB is an amazing community that supports a lot of people and their questions, mine included. However, when you come to OZB with not only a lack of basic things like how an insurance policy works at face value but also have a completely incorrect view on it and an inability to listen, yeah, people won't be kind to that.

          • nujee on 07/05/2023 - 18:16
            +6

            @coffeeinmyveins: Not bring kind and vilifying and attacking someone right down to their intent is very very different. Amazing community this is not- no different from the toxic waste that is whirlpool

            • coffeeinmyveins on 07/05/2023 - 18:32
              +3

              @nujee: You need to spell check before you hit submit. I had to read that three times to understand what you were saying.

              Anyway, every community has toxic people. Id say ozb is better than most on the hole.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/05/2023 - 11:44

          There are a lot of details being withheld here and several instances of gross negligence and corner cutting over a period of several years on the landlords part. Lets be honest, the only reason you're getting defensive is because you don't want op's tomfoolery to reflect negatively on you as well as a fellow landlord. At least a few other landlords on here are willing to admit op screwed up and deserved what he got. Without both sides of the story, op has painted himself to be a shitty landlord, so yeah, tenant who 'trashed' the apartment gets a beer. That is if we even believe this story is real.

      • johnfuller on 08/05/2023 - 13:45

        welcome lol

    • 2esc on 06/05/2023 - 10:54
      +5

      Definitely more to this story i wonder what the overall condition of this place is. Regular property inspections should have picked up problems.

  • Stewardo on 05/05/2023 - 23:51
    +2

    Talk to accountant about repairs/tax deductions.

    • markathome on 08/05/2023 - 07:43
      +1

      Good sensible advice Stewardo…if only he actually lived in Australia.

      • Stewardo on 08/05/2023 - 08:05

        OP would still have to pay tax on the rent income.

  • Mechz on 05/05/2023 - 23:51
    +12

    Yeah if you have a shit property that's a pain to maintain (sans holes in walls) expect shit tennancies.

    IMO the RE sounds at most to blame for not keeping you informed about the worsening condition and you should tear them a new one via ACA and every other means possible.

    Also, doesn't hurt to do a drive by every month to check the yard conditions as that will usually tell you what the inside will likely resemble.

    Just get stuck in, fix it up and move on with another tenant or sell.

    • MementoMori on 06/05/2023 - 00:19
      -3

      Thanks. I live overseas which made it a bit trickier. But still, yes I agree.

      The property was fine - a normal, standard house in suburban Melbourne.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 07/05/2023 - 16:10
        +22

        Overseas property investor and a poorly built property. Name a more iconic duo.

    • nujee on 07/05/2023 - 07:24
      +1

      Have to agree- wtf was the pm doing!!

  • Some Human on 06/05/2023 - 00:00
    +4

    You can save a fortune in repairs by going on youtube and learning how to patch the holes yourself.

    Probably goes without saying that you should make an effort to pay your premiums in the future.

    • MementoMori on 06/05/2023 - 00:18
      -3

      Thanks, I will look into this.

      Yes, I was living in Ukraine and the policy expired in March 2022. But still, I should have paid it. I was busy finding a new place to live.

      • MementoMori on 09/05/2023 - 23:59
        +1

        LOL ok so now I get negged for living in a country that was invaded??

  • tonka on 06/05/2023 - 00:23
    +6

    I have a similar problem. But in my case I don't think was the tenants fault. Lazy PM hadn't done any inspections and I didn't pass on tenant requests for maint. Place was falling apart and I don't blame them for moving out. PM lost me a good long term tenant.

    • MementoMori on 06/05/2023 - 00:28
      +1

      Sorry to hear! Yes, it sucks.

    • serpserpserp on 07/05/2023 - 09:24
      +2

      But in my case I don't think was the tenants fault. Lazy PM hadn't done any inspections and I didn't pass on tenant requests for maint.

      You didn't pass on requests or the PM didn't pass on requests?

      • tonka on 07/05/2023 - 15:02

        PM didn't pass on requests to me. A bit the tenants fault as when I tried to approach them directly they wouldn't discuss with me as I spoke english (which was a new development after many years). I suspect PM was a bit slimy and playing us off as a few times they trashed the tenants to me, so pretty likely they trashed me to the tenants. They had been good friendly tenants for many years until new PM at REA took over.

  • CyberMurning on 06/05/2023 - 00:28
    +2

    Wow i thought harcourt is good… almost used them (Waverley area)

    • MementoMori on 06/05/2023 - 00:29
      +2

      Yeah same, it's a reputable office (they won awards etc). To be fair, I think it's mostly the tenants fault, but yes, the PM could have been a bit better that's for sure.

      • Davo1111 on 07/05/2023 - 11:50

        Sorry but awards for any business don't mean anything. This includes the ones my company has.

        • andresampras on 08/05/2023 - 13:43

          Concur. Sometimes I think it would be interesting to trace the original of the 'award' and what it actually means (or doesn't mean).

          Never actually made the effort though.

    • greatlamp on 08/05/2023 - 17:24

      It's a franchise, the name means nothing.

  • p1 ama on 06/05/2023 - 01:17
    +49

    This thread is exactly why I have such disdain for property investors.

    All investments, be it starting a small business, property, shares…etc. all come with a level of risk. If you can't take the risk, then don't invest, put your money in a savings account instead.

    The reality is that I only ever see property investors whining about the risks that they chose to take onboard when they became investors with the expectation that the government and whole of society gives them special concessions not available to investors in any other asset class.

    Assume your property in SE Melbourne is worth $1M (around the average). $12K skimmed off the top of that is 1.2%. If my share portfolio is down 1.2% it's a random Tuesday. God forbid your property goes down by 1.2% and you're posting all over forums, complaining about the "emotional blow", and running all the way to VCAT to waste everyone's time.

    I'm sure you've been propped up by a decade of consistently strong returns that being knocked down a peg won't hurt too much.

    • payless69 on 06/05/2023 - 01:54

      Well said!
      Trying to run a business?
      Get a CBA card reader, advertise property at double the rent unless a proper cc of every occupant is left for guarantee with tennancy ending on expiry date. Pre schedule all inspections. Pre arrange pet surcharges.
      Or just get Jack Dorsey to do it all!

      • seannami on 07/05/2023 - 17:16
        +3

        The thing is (and I'm not pointing any particular fingers, my general opinion only) is a lot of LLs aren't running anything. I've lived in houses that were actively dangerous, including holes in floors and deck that I fell through, and my recent purchase was from an investor that never did anything except build the place (including a heater that was so dangerous the plumber had to put it on a register and cap it immediately).

        Yes, I know how expensive it is to maintain a house- I'm doing it on the back of someone who didn't for 30 years- but it it's too expensive for you, don't invest, don't put people in a house you wouldn't want to live in and here's a thought, don't have more than one extra property! I think 1 property extra is fair, either a holiday home or investment to keep some in the pool, but when a home stops being a place to live and instead is an asset for money, you are pushing people out- there are people renting who could probably afford a place if investors weren't pumping the market (yes, I know they aren't the only ones, but they aren't helping), flippers weren't taking the project houses off the market for people who need something a little cheaper (I was lucky, I think). As said above, having professionals or businesses renting apartments or gated communities would cover those that need to rent like students, immigrants and short term workers, and a few private investors for people who want / need a full house on a non-purchase basis (waiting for a house to be built etc), and allowing owner occupiers to get into the market so we don't continue the Mediaeval feudal system we are heading towards would be great.

        But hey, pipe dream

    • jjjaar on 06/05/2023 - 05:39
      +11

      Very well put. If any other small business owner needs to close up for any reason “it’s just the market” or “you obviously didn’t build your business properly”. But property investors get a free pass, and then some.

    • tonka on 06/05/2023 - 08:01
      +21

      But why is OP not allowed to request advice here? Yes the best advice here is to detach as much as possible emotionally and look at it over the long term. You could just give that as advice without the sledging.

      I kinda disdain someone who opens a comment specifically offering 'disdain'.

      • tonka on 06/05/2023 - 08:27
        +4

        Yes I know I will get down-voted by the local 'anti-property investor' movement. Shall I sledge the Snyder-verse and praise Disney as well to help it along.

      • p1 ama on 06/05/2023 - 12:01
        +2

        Because OP is not actually requesting advice, OP already knows what to do

        I understand I just need to clean it, fix it and get it rented ASAP as well as trying to claim as much as possible through insurance and VCAT.

        OP is just whinging about the risks that are inherent in investing in property.

        If I posted that my share portfolio was down 1.2% today and asked for advice, what reaction do you think that would garner?

        • tonka on 06/05/2023 - 12:27
          +9

          "Can anyone who has been through this offer any tips and tricks?"
          There is really, really, really nothing wrong with asking if someone knows a better way. Wouldn't the world be great if everyone considered they could me more out there than what they know.

          "If I posted that my share portfolio was down 1.2% today and asked for advice, what reaction do you think that would garner?"
          I think you would get people people offering advice and sharing stories.

          And maybe a couple of people that put a negative spin on anything that doesn't describe themselves.

          • nujee on 07/05/2023 - 07:48
            +1

            @tonka: He is probably the type that attacks others while hiding behind his keyboard so expects everyone to be like him

        • tomfool on 08/05/2023 - 10:50

          What you a describing is not the same value or property fluctuates much the same as the share market, just not as quick.

          Would you be upset if for instance a company you invested in had a executive that stole 1.2% of the value of that company and disappeared?

    • lostgoat on 06/05/2023 - 09:24
      +4

      Well done p1 a lot of people don't understand the risk/reward equations.
      Add most people on this site as well .

    • lunchbox99 on 06/05/2023 - 09:33
      +4

      Exactly why I always say. Property investors seem to think they have some special right to expect zero risk and government protection.

      Having a rental should be treated like any other business, meaning that adequate insurance is advised. if people want to pocket the maximum cash and not do these things, then that risk is on them. it's no different to running any other business without insurance.

      • nujee on 07/05/2023 - 07:50
        +1

        Agree with the second part- if you don’t insure it…Don’t come crying. But we as a society shouldn’t be normalising malicious damage and illegal actions just out of spite.

        • lunchbox99 on 07/05/2023 - 08:28

          I don't mean risk from physical damage. I mean financial risk from running a business, which is what you are doing as a landlord. Having insurance is a normal cost of doing business - like paying rates.

        • p1 ama on 08/05/2023 - 21:59

          But we as a society shouldn’t be normalising malicious damage and illegal actions just out of spite.

          OP specifically says that the damage was not malicious:

          (not 'malicious' as such, just filthy pigs)

    • Ghost47 on 06/05/2023 - 10:34
      +8

      All investments, be it starting a small business, property, shares…etc. all come with a level of risk.

      To be fair, property investors aren't really sophisticated investors. They've ridden ever decreasing interest rates for decades and think they're all geniuses because their property has made more money than the average person going into work 5 days a week.

      It doesn't surprise me they don't take into consideration risks like bad tenants, they probably think everyone would take care of a house just like they themselves would.

      It's all fun and games until they get a bill to repair or renovate their property, upon which they try to weasel their way out of it any which way they can, all the while there's a hard working person/family paying off their debt for them.

      • Ughhh on 06/05/2023 - 10:41
        +3

        It doesn't surprise me they don't take into consideration risks bad tenants, they probably think everyone would take care of a house just like they themselves would.

        I think the majority do, hence why some don't allow pets and ask potential renters questions like its a job interview. Whether its effective at filtering scums is a different question.

        • cobknob on 07/05/2023 - 19:03

          Questions don't filter shit. Neither do references or speaking with past landlords. People are bias. Looking at property condition reports and speak to the renter anonymously that will get you a better picture

      • tonka on 06/05/2023 - 10:54
        +1

        'How is that 'To be fair' ? The whole comment is a sledge. Sure landlords often aren't an advanced investors. Very often they are average Joe from a low socio-economic background just trying to become a home owner. Investing in property has traditionally been the lowest risk investment next to putting money in the bank. Do you rent or own. Most of the property owners I know work two and sometimes more jobs, you talk like they sit at home raking in the rent, rent often won't even cover the bills and wear and tear on the property.

        • p1 ama on 06/05/2023 - 12:04
          +4

          Sure landlords often aren't an advanced investors. Very often they are average Joe from a low socio-economic background just trying to become a home owner.

          What is your point exactly? That just because they're not "advanced investors", they are entitled to government and social sympathy not available to any other investor group?

          • tonka on 06/05/2023 - 12:31
            +2

            @p1 ama: My point is exactly the one I wrote. You can't preface a sledging with 'to be fair'.
            What exactly is your point. To make up stuff I didn't say?

          • tomfool on 09/05/2023 - 07:31
            +1

            @p1 ama:

            That just because they're not "advanced investors", they are entitled to government and social sympathy not available to any other investor group?

            Negative gearing and capital gains tax discount is available to any investor, buying a share portfolio using leverage offers the exact same tax benefits as claiming interest on an investment property. The only additional advantage the investment property has is depreciation however the companies that one would own shares in use depreciation extensively.

        • Ghost47 on 06/05/2023 - 12:53
          +6

          'How is that 'To be fair' ?

          I was taking the piss. The fact I have to say this is proving my point.

          Very often they are average Joe from a low socio-economic background just trying to become a home owner.

          Come on, this is disingenuous. People who buy one property to live in are the ones who want to become a "home owner". People who invest in property want to become a "homes owner" off the backs of people who rent, after all, it IS the renters who pay the majority of the mortgage over time.

          Investing in property has traditionally been the lowest risk investment next to putting money in the bank.

          When something is low risk, it doesn't guarantee high returns. This is how investing works, unless of course there are policies in place to game the system. And if it was low risk, why do Aussies have such a fetish for it?

          Do you rent or own.

          Well I don't rent if that's what you're asking, but I don't rely on people paying off my investments for me either. When my shares have lost value I've never posted about it hoping for a way out.

          Most of the property owners I know work two and sometimes more jobs, you talk like they sit at home raking in the rent, rent often won't even cover the bills and wear and tear on the property.

          Oh no, really? That's just so so so sad! 😭 Maybe you can give us their BSB and account number so we can give them some money to help them out? Those poor hard-to-do property investors… such victims of the system… there's no way out of that kind of situation at all is there? No way at all! It's not like they can — gasp — actually sell a property after buying one right? No, they're locked into it for eternity… oh the HUMANITY!!!!

          • tonka on 06/05/2023 - 13:20

            @Ghost47: Ok I guess you don't realize that a lot of landlords only own one home. There's lot's of young people living with parents while they save enough to be able to live independently (almost everyone I know fit this category). There's people who buy where they can afford and rent where they have to work until they can afford to change jobs, people seconded for work or study, often the elderly won't sell their home but for health reasons they live with family, new couples trialing a live-in relationship. And I'm sure there's many reasons beyond this.

        • lunchbox99 on 07/05/2023 - 08:32
          +7

          Most property owners do not work two or more jobs.

          As for the rent not covering all the costs - so what, people expect to gain a million dollar asset over 20 years at exactly zero cost to themselves?

          This is the mentality that causes slumlords. They don't feel owning a rental property should cost anything.

          You're not losing money by paying to fix things. You're ensuring you gain that million dollar asset for as cheap as possible by ensuring you can charge decent rent because the property is attractive to renters who dont want to live in a slum.

        • serpserpserp on 07/05/2023 - 15:08
          +2

          Most of the property owners I know work two and sometimes more jobs,

          You don't know many property owners I guess.

          • tonka on 07/05/2023 - 15:27

            @serpserpserp: Maybe not, probably a dozen well enough to know their circumstances, all of them had to work extra to get where they are. I remember one guy working pizza hut at night delivering a pizza to his tenants. But my mates aren't from rich families and have to bust arse to get ahead. How many do you know?

            • serpserpserp on 07/05/2023 - 17:44
              -1

              @tonka: Nearly all my friends and peers have a mortgage. All work hard for their money. None work over 2 jobs as you described. I guess your pizza mate was the slacker because he was the one only working two jobs and not three or more?

              Would love to hear about the other eleven people you know that work 3 jobs at once to pay the mortgage.

    • richrichie on 07/05/2023 - 02:05
      +1

      Good point re: it is only a small percentage in comparison to the strong returns over the last decade.

      But I still don't get the idea of why bad tenants should be tolerable by the society, and blindly accepted by property investors? Yes, it is still a risk that should be calculated, and hence there is a landlord insurance to mitigate those risks.

      However, isn't this risk a bit more comparable to the likes of people that say, steal items from a small shop (theft), or insider trading / false accounting that cause the share price of a company to drop? And in this case, wouldn't the investors in the small business / shares also expect some sort of actions against the perpetrators?

      For your share portfolio example that is down 1.2% on a "random Tuesday", I think property investors would have risks similar to those that they shouldn't expect any special concessions, such as the current interest rate condition and properties in some suburbs drop a small %. Or if they pick a property in a bad suburb that is then oversupplied with many new apartments; that will be a closer analogy to buying a share in an underperforming company due to competitors in the same sector.

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