Do You Consider Caged Eggs Unethical?

Trying2SaveABuck on 22/05/2023 - 22:30
Last edited 25/05/2023 - 12:22

So i was 'part' of a conversation the other day in which a vegaterian colleague was expressing her 'strong' views on how eating meat is 'unethical' - now i dont push my lifestyle on anyone and i certainly dont care about anyone elses but personally i like eating meat and i eat meat in moderation mostly chicken and fish - however in the overly PC and sensative workplace i work in, i though i should just nod my head and say 'fair enough, i understand your point of view' ….

Anyway as this colleague was ranting another colleague asked her do you think 'eating eggs' is ethical in which she said 'caged eggs should be banned' - she admited she ate only 'free ranged' eggs on occasion and continued ranting about the unethical ways chickens are treated - my reponses was 'fair enough' once more

now i 'said nothing' because i have learnt people with strong opinions are just not worth arguing with but i personally do not 'buy free range eggs' or to be clear i generally buy the 'cheapest dozen on the shelf which 9 times out of 10 are caged i never though twice as for me the cost is what matters most…..

For the record i dont agree it is unethical to eat/buy caged eggs but ill leave it to the unheralding wisdom of the Ozbargain community

updated [25-5-23] - some interesting points and im happy to 'learn' i will buy free ranged eggs if possible from here on in (personal growth is why i posted these things)

Poll Options

  • 744
    Caged eggs are Unethical
  • 200
    Caged eggs are ethically fine
Food & Grocery Eggs

Comments

      • Deals For Days on 23/05/2023 - 22:58
        +4

        It's not too hard if you just approach it with the idea of 'minimising unnecessary harm'. For example, if animal testing is required to create a safe drug that saves lives, then it's reasonable to say well there isn't an alternative. Animal testing for cosmetics is very different, because there are readily available alternatives that create no suffering, and cosmetics are not a necessity to live (whereas much medicine often is).

        Similarly, if a vegan were in a plane crashed and stranded in a remote area with minimal edible plants, it would be reasonable for them to eat animals because they don't have an option and they genuinely do need to eat the animal or they will die.

        You can make the same judgements about issues with human harm. Consider police use of force - do you think cops should always shoot people if they are being uncooperative? Probably not. But, if there is no other option, then unfortunately they may have to shoot and kill that person if they are at risk of hurting other people.

        • cookie2 on 24/05/2023 - 07:07
          +2

          Well said.

      • cookie2 on 24/05/2023 - 07:06
        +4

        It's not everything or nothing. It's do what you can. If you put every animal issue together you'll never even start.
        You asked where it stops, well it stops wherever you personally want it to. Based on your ethics, values and knowledge.
        I do have to mention that while you say "clearly", it's not always clear what the "better" or "more ethical" choice is.

  • Poor Ass on 23/05/2023 - 21:25
    +1

    I thought vegans don't eat eggs… your colleague a half ass vegan?

    • Trying2SaveABuck on 23/05/2023 - 21:30
      -1

      that might be my bad she might be vegaterian i get the two confused

      • Poor Ass on 23/05/2023 - 22:03

        Trick question

        Has she or will she breastfeed?

        • Trying2SaveABuck on 23/05/2023 - 22:04
          +4

          as a male who works in an incredibly woke work place - i reckon asking that question it might get me sent to HR

          • Poor Ass on 23/05/2023 - 22:07
            +2

            @Trying2SaveABuck: Nah mate just 2 adults having a mature conversation

            The answer is yes vegans can breastfeed their children as the mother's milk is meant for their child

            • Trying2SaveABuck on 23/05/2023 - 22:12

              @Poor Ass: i would assume that would be the 'case'

              but im not going to ask a women if she intends to breast feed her future children - 1. that might be taken the wrong way. 2. it is a bit creepy

              perhaps if she was pregnant it would be 'more' appropriate but would you ask a women you dont know well 'so do you intend on breast feeding you children'

              also if you didnt get it from my post i tired not 'engage' with Karens it never ends well

  • fredk1000 on 23/05/2023 - 21:32
    +2

    There is something bad in everything if you look hard enough, it's your choice to see or look for it or not.

  • ssfps on 23/05/2023 - 21:51
    +1

    Caged and standard free range are both unethical if you believe in reducing unnecessary harm. Buy the eggs that come from chickens that are treated well without overcrowding and with a natural food source. Side benefit is the eggs will be healthier for you. Principle is generally true for any animal product.

  • Motek Benzona on 23/05/2023 - 21:58
    +1

    When i see the videos of them all crammed in..yes, a little.

    When i am munching on two fried plus bacon..not for a second

  • Poor Ass on 23/05/2023 - 22:05
    +1

    I eat caged eggs I dun give a fuk

    If they are selling cheap enough I'm buying

  • AustriaBargain on 23/05/2023 - 22:38
    +2

    I buy whatever eggs are cheapest, as long as they have an expiry data at least a month away. I think the government should ban caged eggs, it can't add that much more cost per egg to give the chooks a bit more room. Also we should invent a drug that makes the chickens happy and they should let humans buy and use that drug too.

    • Deals For Days on 23/05/2023 - 23:02
      +1

      Out of interest, if you think caged eggs should be banned to make the chickens a bit happier, why don't you spend a bit more to buy caged free? Given the cost is so low and your purchase choice has a direct impact on how the animals are treated.

      • AustriaBargain on 23/05/2023 - 23:04
        +1

        If caged eggs were so bad then they would have been banned already. I think they are bad and should be banned. But because they have not been banned yet I defer the morality of this to the government.

        • Fobsessive on 23/05/2023 - 23:06
          +2

          Cigarettes & alcohol aren't banned…

        • Deals For Days on 23/05/2023 - 23:12
          +3

          I mean, a lot of terrible things (child labour, slavery etc.) have been at some points not banned by the govt. Takes time for change to happen in government.

          For that reason I don't typically use the government as any indication of morality. An Aussie example, robodebt was illegal and unethical, resulting in people killing themselves over non-existant debts. Govt at the time were the ones pushing it.

          • AustriaBargain on 23/05/2023 - 23:24
            +2

            @Deals For Days: I would not robodebt anyone. If I lived in Ancient Rome and could afford it I probably would own slaves, seems very convenient and a good investment. If I lived in Victorian England I'd probably own a factory with child workers, it would all seem so normal wouldn't it? I wouldn't mistreat them I'm pretty sure but if it was normal for children to make matches and I owned a match factory, then I suppose I would employ children. I'd probably donate to orphanages and whatever too to support children who would otherwise be on the streets. If I were alive in those times in history then I wouldn't know any better. I think I would have been against slavery if I was in the US, post-Enlightenment I would have found it abhorrent. But in Ancient Rome it was just normal. Then again I think I would treat my slaves well, they would virtually be freemen except for their enslavement to me. I'd always treat people well, but I don't think the context of modern morality would make any sense 2,000 years ago that far pre-Enlightenment.

            Anyway it's impossible to really know what I would or would not do if I were born into other times or situations.

            • cookie2 on 24/05/2023 - 07:13
              +2

              @AustriaBargain: But you do, in this time and place, consciously choose to buy the cheapest eggs (caged) even though you state your opinion that they should be banned by the government to make them have a little more room and some happy drugs? That just doesn't make sense.

              • SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 10:25

                @cookie2: I believe AustriaBargain is being obtuse and in their second comment was referencing people earlier in this thread

    • ssfps on 24/05/2023 - 08:25

      The government should further cage our personal agency to avoid caging chickens

      Interesting take on ethics there. Would you physically cage a human who broke the law and caged chickens?

      • SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 10:26

        I can't see where anyone said that? Maybe it was edited

        • ssfps on 24/05/2023 - 10:50

          I'm paraphrasing this sentence:

          the government should ban caged eggs … to give the chooks a bit more room.

          • SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 13:13

            @ssfps: Why paraphrase a sarcastic sentence?

            • ssfps on 24/05/2023 - 14:21

              @SpainKing: I didn't realize it was sarcasm, my bad. I have encountered people that do think that way - or maybe i haven't and they're just chatGPT.

  • Fobsessive on 23/05/2023 - 23:07

    I buy Sunny Queen "free range" with daytime outdoor density of 1500hens/hectare. The company doesn't indicate the barn conditions at night.
    I stock up when Colesworth has 20%+ rewards offers.

  • da1andonly on 24/05/2023 - 00:00
    +3

    People that consider caged eggs as unethical is like a tree hugger that drives a car. I care about the environment but I still drive a car. Total hypocrisy right there.

    • Usernames on 24/05/2023 - 06:37
      +3

      I think the idea is to drive car around the trees, not try to knock them over.

    • cookie2 on 24/05/2023 - 07:15

      How did you come up with that comparison? One has to do with ethics and the other with actions.

      • cashews on 24/05/2023 - 08:50
        +2

        Some people struggle with nuanced thinking.

      • Mr Haj on 24/05/2023 - 11:42

        Yeah I don't really understand the analogy… And why can't you care about the environment and drive a car? How are you meant to get around?

  • THICKnSLOW on 24/05/2023 - 00:42
    +1

    Society demanded eggs.

    Primary Producers produced eggs.

    Society demanded more eggs

    Primary producers bought more chickens found it difficult to handle free ranging chickens so decided to cage them

    Society had ethical dilemma.

    Primary producers bought more land and handballed the cost to society.

    Moral of the story is instead of having cats as a pet, raise chickens and feed yourself.

    • infinite on 25/05/2023 - 10:50

      Chickens don't work like that.

      Their ability to lay eggs and frequency of laying changes depending on the breed. Even the best laying breeds don't lay every day and as soon as one hen in the group decides to go broody, they can all stop laying. So you can end up going through cycles of weeks, or even months without many eggs if unlucky, if the idiot chickens cycle through going broody one after the other.

      Their like solar power or wind power - efficient and great in theory and on paper, but completely shit and unreliable though in reality when you realize the quality of the output over a year or more & take into account how weather and environmental factors effect them.

  • Guerilla89 on 24/05/2023 - 08:07
    +1

    It’s nice to be able to earn enough to have moralistic views on how we treat our food. I was poor so just did what I had to before but now I have more money so we should just ban them because it makes me feel better. Additionally I get to impose my views on others and that makes me feel important which I desperately need. /sarcasm

  • ceroau on 24/05/2023 - 08:33

    Empathy for others and other living things is a perfectly valid and real emotion. I feel sorry for any one who assumes it insincere and just being overly “pc” and treat those who demonstrate any hint of it with such contempt.

    That aside yes society stuffing a bunch of animals into tiny ass cages for the purpose of maximising egg production is unethical. No one in their right mind would dispute that but there plenty of unethical or least ethically questionable shit people do daily. Does it make them bad? Not necessarily.

    If it the choice between starving or buying some unethical I’d obviously choose the latter many would but I ain’t starving.

    • infinite on 25/05/2023 - 10:52

      Why do you lack the basic empathy for others who have valid but different opinions to you.

      It's pretty unethical to treat people that way, wouldn't you say ?

  • dowhatuwant2 on 24/05/2023 - 09:20
    +1

    Never seen an farmed animal try to commit suicide, regardless of how bad it may look like they have it to a vegan these animals prefer to being alive as opposed to non-existence which is what would happen if people weren't eating them. Veganism is just the new religion for some of this generation.

    • SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 10:30

      I don't think the chickens have any concept of human farming practices. If they did they might very well try to kill themselves as that level of thinking would also probably lead to existentialist thoughts about their purpose (which is to be raised to their prime laying/eating age then killed)

    • ssfps on 24/05/2023 - 10:54

      You've never seen a baby try to commit suicide despite being caged, right?

      QED @dowhatuwant2 must think its ethical to keep babies caged in his basement

      • Daabido on 24/05/2023 - 11:53

        Wait. It's not? Got to go…

      • dowhatuwant2 on 24/05/2023 - 12:18
        +1

        I haven't seen too many caged babies tbh. Is that your fetish or something?

        • SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 13:15

          That's not really defending your point, at least ssfps gave a metaphor to show how your thinking is flawed

          • dowhatuwant2 on 24/05/2023 - 15:05
            +1

            @SpainKing: I'm not talking about baby chickens though? I'm talking about the adult ones so it's a shit metaphor.

            • SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 15:18

              @dowhatuwant2: A human baby is going to be closer to the intelligence of your average adult chicken than the average adult human

              "You can't compare the struggles of apple farmers to orange farmers, they're completely different crops"

              How many non-human animals have you seen trying to commit suicide due to their living conditions?

      • infinite on 25/05/2023 - 10:53

        Projecting your fetishes much ?

  • ecomm-deals on 24/05/2023 - 09:29

    Personally, I don't mind people eating anything. But if you eat animal products, those animals need to be treated fairly too. Farm animal welfare has to be discussed more I believe. Caged hens are just stuck into a tiny box and In my opinion, I think it's not fair. I try to but non-cages eggs most of the time, because I don't like to be caged so I believe hens will prefer that too.

  • Munki on 24/05/2023 - 09:29
    +1

    I only eat caged eggs. In fact, when I go to cafes to eat brunch or whatever, I specifically ask for caged eggs - and they better be seasoned by caged chicken tears.

    • ssfps on 24/05/2023 - 10:55

      Are 2002 maddox articles still edgy?

  • Top G on 24/05/2023 - 09:39

    They taste worse because they use cheaper feed or the chickens are more stressed.

  • birnie on 24/05/2023 - 09:53

    Ctrl H
    Find = <single quote>
    replace = <NULL>
    tick replace all occurances.

    yep, still makes sense

    • Usernames on 24/05/2023 - 10:42

      I my favourite quote is: 'said nothing'.

  • Dalton on 24/05/2023 - 11:24
    +3

    Eggs are ethically problematic in many ways. Almost all male chicks are destroyed, for example.

    Eggs, poached on sourdough with a bit of avocado and a pinch of salt: mmmmm. Thanks chickens.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2023 - 11:27

    Considering getting a pet chicken/quails and stealing their eggs and providing them with direct compensation of a spoilt pet life.

  • ContinuousCustomer on 24/05/2023 - 11:34
    +1

    Thankfully I don’t know anyone vegan.

    • ssfps on 24/05/2023 - 14:21

      Confirmation bias, you wouldn't know. You only know you don't know any annoying loud-mouth vegans.

      • infinite on 25/05/2023 - 10:55

        There aren't any other kind of vegan.

  • ECE on 24/05/2023 - 12:06

    Caged egg unethical or not is still an egg 🥚😋

  • TEER3X on 24/05/2023 - 12:43

    I think vegans have it right, but I've grown up eating meat, dairy, etc my whole life. It's too hard/time consuming for me to change.

  • eddyah on 24/05/2023 - 13:13
    +1

    Animal farming in general is unethical. I'll support it though as we need the nutrition they produce and our world is over populated as is.

    To quote the RSPCA
    Unlike meat chickens, the meat from spent hens is less desirable for human consumption due to a difference in taste and texture, so is used for manure and fertiliser, pet food, or lower-quality processing meat for human consumption such as in soups and stocks.

    Can a chicken understand they're under stress if they live their whole life in a cage? Does a fish know how big the ocean is?

    I eat caged eggs and thought long and hard about the issue before switching back to them (after my teens discovering free range etc). At the end of the day, farming an animals eggs is either fine or bad. There's no good way to be a farm animal or bad way. It just is.

    • SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 13:22

      Maybe we should just start harvesting humans for meat seeing as farming is unethical

      We need the nutrition and the world's overpopulated so I feel this'd be a double whammy against both those. As a bonus we could stop all other farming and chuck all our eggs and chickens in the ocean with the fish

      An animal still understands and feels the impact of stress when put in bad conditions as it's a natural response. If you had chronic pain since you were an infant you would understand that and wish for it to stop. If you were cramped in a cage with metal bars digging in to your flesh and getting your beak cut off you would understand "this sucks, I hate it."

      • eddyah on 24/05/2023 - 19:07

        Only humans can consider suicide. Animals would rather live in misery - prove otherwise and I think you have a pretty big case for stopping these things.

        You can't apply what we as humans experience towards animals. They don't think about us in that way

        • xsacha on 24/05/2023 - 20:24

          Bees commit suicide whenever they use their stinger.
          Animals such as chickens engage in self-destructive behaviour when stressed (such as caged) which can lead to their death. It also alters the taste and texture of their meat as well as the thickness of their egg shells.

          • TEER3X on 25/05/2023 - 18:03

            @xsacha: They did say consider though, I doubt a bee makes those kinds of considerations

          • eddyah on 25/05/2023 - 21:51

            @xsacha: Yes and so does every other animal at old age. Great point! You win the internet.

  • star-ggg on 24/05/2023 - 13:57

    Do you only consider something un/ethical if it's convenient for you? You can do things you consider unethical- morals aren't black and white. I think eating meat is unethical cause it's unnecessary to do it to have a perfectly functional healthy life. It's creating and killing animals for luxury. Yes I eat meat.

    The egg industry is unethical. Billions of baby male chickens are killed every year in a meat grinder for the egg industry to exist. Yes I eat eggs.

  • Hahuh on 24/05/2023 - 14:41

    Yes I do. Having said that. I'm also a meat eater and don't think me eating something that had a pike between the eyes is any less ethical.

  • Morphio25 on 24/05/2023 - 14:50

    I always buy free range eggs, mostly because I find the footage of chickens that are not free range to be deplorable, but then I also eat chicken as well. Guess that makes me a hypocrite.

  • bigbargainben on 24/05/2023 - 14:56
    +1

    The 'use' of apostrophes in this 'post' reads like a sky news 'headline'

  • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2023 - 14:57

    Chooks are happier roaming around & more than likely lay better & healthier eggs because they're less stressed than their cooped-up-too-much peers.

    • dowhatuwant2 on 24/05/2023 - 15:04

      Cage hens are protected from predators such as foxes, feral cats and birds of prey. Cage hens produce more eggs and cleaner eggs, which is why they are cheaper at the supermarket. There are fewer occurrences of manure-borne diseases, parasites and other exotic diseases in caged eggs. I'd bet you dollars to cents you can't taste the difference as long as the chicken feed is the same.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2023 - 15:27
        +1

        Don't you think egg farmers should set up protection for their chooks so that they can roam about & not be under threat from any prey animals? There is no reason why free-range chookies shouldn't be provided sanitary conditions to minimise disease & be fed well. We had some chookettes when I was a kid & footage of caged hens is not right, distressing & downright barbaric.

        I recall reading an article or two where they studied cows or pigs or some other animals that humans eat & they found that good animal welfare is important & also results in healthier, better tasting meat. It would therefore make sense that happier chooks that get to stretch their legs = healthy eggs!

        • dowhatuwant2 on 24/05/2023 - 16:36

          Why? Animals don't have that protection in the wild.

          Nah from what i've read on it pasturised eggs taste better but other than that habitat has no effect on egg flavour.

          • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2023 - 16:44

            @dowhatuwant2: Chooks are domesticated though. And, they're cute so you want to protect them plus if you do, then you get more eggs from them.

            Chooks that can forage produce healthier eggs. It's an US link 'cause it's the OzB way of doin' things.

            • dowhatuwant2 on 24/05/2023 - 16:50

              @[Deactivated]: im sure "thehappychickencoop.com" is a completely unbiased source for information on this topic!

              • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2023 - 16:52

                @dowhatuwant2: Totally! Along with being the first google search record that came up …. so there!

      • tomfool on 24/05/2023 - 15:37

        Would you prefer to be in a prison so that you are prevented from a disease that might kill you, or a car that might hit you or a murderer that might kill you. I would think like most you would take the odds and be free.

        • dowhatuwant2 on 24/05/2023 - 16:34

          I mean, the world already answered that question when the pandemic happened and most chose lockdowns.

      • trapper on 25/05/2023 - 11:19

        There is nothing wrong with caging animals per se. As you say it keeps them safe.

        The cages however don't need to be a shoebox sized torture chamber.

      • keejoonc on 25/05/2023 - 13:24

        If you can't taste how horrible caged eggs are, your taste buds must not be very sensitive.
        Ethical issues aside, I would never buy caged eggs purely based on taste.

  • Dognosis on 24/05/2023 - 15:02

    It is obviously unethical in a vacuum. Of course when you get to the nuance of weighing up the competing interests (how much weight do you give to human wellbeing vs animal wellbeing, does richness of experience matter etc) it is harder to find agreement.

    Artificial meat is the likely future eventually.

    • dowhatuwant2 on 24/05/2023 - 16:37
      +4

      Yeah clearly it's unethical to raise chickens in a vacuum but the question is about cages not vacuums.

  • Logical on 24/05/2023 - 15:18
    +4

    When I was a little boy I used to visit my grandma in a little village and she used to tell me that one day many people will waste their time reading my comments. And here we are!

    • s1Lence on 24/05/2023 - 16:44

      In Bulgaria?

      • Logical on 24/05/2023 - 16:47

        Hungary

  • belongsinforums on 24/05/2023 - 18:53
    +1

    To be labelled as free range, there are little to no restrictions on farmers. Supermarkets are happy that we pay $5 for eggs now though

  • pulpfiction on 24/05/2023 - 19:51
    +1

    When I was a kid we took in caged chickens after they’d passed their laying peak.

    Being stuck in a cage their whole life they were unable to move due to severe atrophy for a week. Covered in active pressure sores or scarred old sores. Their beaks were cut to prevent pecking between cages (something they do when jammed in). I’ve never seen a more broken animal in my life.

    If you think caged eggs are ethical you have to be friggin brain dead.

    • Logical on 25/05/2023 - 00:16

      How about the factory mass producing iPhones, Nike etc?? The underage, forced labour workers are caged in that respect yet consumers praise the items

      • pulpfiction on 25/05/2023 - 05:34
        +3

        You forgot to mention the billions of other moral atrocities across the planet. How does this relate to chickens exactly?

        Or… are you saying we should give up on all moral pursuits because it’s not perfect? That logic is stupid isn’t it.

      • caitsith01 on 25/05/2023 - 13:30
        +1

        What the hell does that have to do with the comment you're replying to?

        It's possible to care about two issues at once.

  • Wasabi Ninja on 24/05/2023 - 19:52

    Unethical, but I don’t care.

  • dmac on 24/05/2023 - 20:46
    +2

    It's essentially neutral in the scheme of things (e.g. buying clothes you don't need). It's definitely more ethical to buy free range over caged (no-one is saying they are perfect). To be more ethical, you can go for CSIRO definition of free range which is 1,500 hens per hectare or 6.6m per hen.

    Caged: $4.60
    Free range min: $5.20 (+60c) 15,000/hectare
    Free range standard: $7.20 (+$2) 1,500/hectare

    Personally, 60c for some level of ethics is worth it. $2 depending on financial situation.

    • AustriaBargain on 25/05/2023 - 02:23
      +2

      (profanity) me, I've shared apartments that had less than 6.6 square meters per person.

  • Maxxjet on 24/05/2023 - 21:14

    I don't buy caged egg but not becasue it is "unethical" - the whole "ethical eating/killing" thing is just pure hypocrisy designed to mitigate one's "inner guity" so they can say, while I eat their meat or their offsprings, at least they died "comfortably" or live a "comfortable" life. Just like the good slave masters prviding good care to their slaves. They are slaves in the end only may be better treated than their counterparts in other plantations, but doesn't change anything. You either have slave or no slaves, and you either don't eat egg or just eat them, there is no middle way. Face it!

    • poisongodmachine on 25/05/2023 - 01:46
      +3

      F**k me, never did I think I'd be seeing someone defending slavery in an OzBargain post. WTF is going on???

      • star-ggg on 26/05/2023 - 09:57

        Ironically, the good slave masters freed their slaves

    • WeeDeePotato on 25/05/2023 - 11:38

      Yes exactly, more people need to face hard truths in their consumption. There's a reason the 'how the sausage gets made' saying exists.

      So much cognitive dissonance in this thread.

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