Misrepresentation of Hospital Costs for Patient without Insurance

Had family visiting us from overseas recently. One night their 9yo kid developed breathing difficulties and we had to visit the ED at a public hospital in Brisbane.

Family did not have visitor health insurance in Oz so we had to pay $1,200 before he would be looked at in the ED. The kid was treated with an inhaler and monitored for approx 7 hrs while the symptoms got better and the they were stable.

Subsequently the hospital staff asked the kid to be moved to "short stay" so they can further monitor before releasing. We specifically asked for any further costs that might be applicable, and the staff assured us that short stay was covered as part of the emergency fee we already paid and no further charges will be required for the move. The reason they provided for the move was that the kid no longer needed one-on-one care in the ED and just needs to be monitored. So we agreed and signed the paperwork for the move.

After about 5 hrs in short stay where he was occasionally monitored the kid was released.

Approx 10 calendar days after the incident, we received the receipt for the payment via post.

Approx 36 calendar days after the original incident, we received another invoice for an additional $2,050 in hospital fees for one day of stay at the hospital.

We were baffled at this and questioned the charge, and we were explained that this charge was for the admission to short stay. We explained to them in detail that in the conversations we (myself and the parents) had with the hospital staff, we were advised that the short stay was included in the fees already paid and that no further fees were required, and that our decision to agree the move was made based on this.

But the revenue office of the hospital is clinging on to a clause in the data collection form that says the fee estimate provided to us is an estimate only and further charges may be incurred. The best they can offer is an explanation that the staff has given us incorrect information at the time.

I understand that our rights under the ACL can't be just "signed away". The facts are:

  • If the short stay is indeed chargeable then the hospital has seriously misrepresented the charges involved
  • If we were informed of the charges, we would have politely declined the move and checked out as the kid was stable at that point
  • How are we expected to make a sensible decision if we were misinformed of the costs involved?

Is this really how the system works? Is this the (frankly pathetic) standard of informed financial consent in our country?
Should we be fighting this? Is there any point?

We would appreciate any guidance or opinion the community has on this matter.

TLDR: Kid treated at hospital without medicare/private insurance. Hospital fees were paid before he was treated and we were assured by staff that no further fees were necessary. 1+ month later, hospital has sent a bill demanding further charges.

Comments

  • +34

    who is liable for the cost? the family of the kid who is no longer in the country? if so, meh. they're gone already.

    • +23

      This is an option, but trying to do the right thing here!

      • -5

        with all the inflation and rising cost of living, i would be tempted to cease comms with them and not pay.

        youre in a pickle if they have the aus residents details too though as you'll be stuck with the fee.

      • +1

        Why would you care about doing the "right thing" while the Hospital is trying to do the family over dirty ?

        • I'm confused who's side he's on

          Sounded like they already disagreed or hesitant to pay the extra 2k

      • +4

        off the top of my heads those fees are about right and on the reasonable side. Maybe talk to someone from the hospital and argue you couldnt make an informed decision because of the uncertainty of costs.

        I understand the bother but for what it is worth i would have written on the form "no fees involved as per hospital dude's name"

        the family is pretty crazy to travel without insurance, with more severe health issues it could have been a heftier figure.

        • I predict that this is just the start. How long has it been since the event OP? I predict that there will be more bills to come.

    • +5

      All good if they don’t want to come back into the country. They’ll nab em at customs if it’s outstanding when they come back.

  • +50

    Write it off as experience to always get travel insurance and never accept a verbal agreement. If it's not in writing, it's worthless.
    Glad the kid is OK!

    • +3

      Yep, definitely lessons learned.

    • +15

      never accept a verbal agreement. If it's not in writing, it's worthless

      WRONG, Wrong, wrong, oh so wrong. Please don't offer advise when you have no idea.

      Information must be accurate and truthful
      Any information or claim that a business provides about its products or services must be accurate, truthful and based on reasonable grounds.

      This includes:

      Information on prices
      images and descriptions of what is offered
      claims about the value, benefits, qualities or performance of products and services
      shipping options and delivery times.
      This rule applies to any communication by a business, including through:

      advertising
      product packaging
      a quotation
      any information provided by staff, whether verbally or in writing
      social media
      testimonials
      websites or any other platform.
      Any statement that creates a false impression about goods and services can be breaking the law.

      • +15

        You're both sort of right.

        The problem is PROVING verbally given information.

        An audio or video recording is an option.

        • -1

          We specifically asked for any further costs that might be applicable
          So we agreed and signed the paperwork for the move.

          Sounds like multiple people made the enquiry as to extra costs and were told the same.

          PROVING verbally given information.

          That's like saying guilty until proven innocent.
          Sounds like accounting need to talk to ER nurses/doctors and make sure they didn't say there would be no extra costs, not just billing the customer because it happened.

          • +1

            @Brian McGee:

            That's like saying guilty until proven innocent.

            Yes it is.
            Im not saying it is right,
            or legal.
            Im saying that PRACTICALLY if your only evidence is oral,
            and the business is adament and advesarial,

            good luck.

            • -1

              @bargain huntress: So, statutory declarations aren't a thing? Or are you saying Dr's and Nurses would commit fraud and sign false stat decs?

              • @A-mak: Sure stat decs are great.

                However PRACTICALLY how is this person supposed to contact the nurses and doctors and get them to sign one.

                Do they even know their full names?

                • +1

                  @bargain huntress: Nurses and doctors have to sign medical documentation they handle, there would be a paper trail.

          • +1

            @Brian McGee: So which authority body would you report this to?

            • @capslock janitor: Where did I say anything about an authority? I guess you could write to the health minister of the state and tell them with a CC to the hospital administration. Do a statutory declaration as A-mak suggested? State that you will not pay until an investigation is done?
              OP has the power in this situation, they have not paid yet and can dispute the charges.

          • @Brian McGee: Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal cases. In civil/trots, you have the burden of proof for your claim. The hospital has its policy in place and probably made you sign some documents that you weren't even fully aware of its content saying they have the right to collect further payment for the short stay, yet all the patient has is hearsay.

            • @truetypezk:

              all the patient has is hearsay.

              Or is it a representation from the employee about further costs? Like a car salesman saying you get free servicing or a free loan car and later when you lob at the service centre there is no vehicle for you and you get charged.
              And were the parents in a competent state of mind when signing the contract? Was their judgement impaired by the stress of the situation or were they tired from being up all night with worry about their child? We are always told that staying awake for 24hrs can have the same affect as low range PCA, and you wouldn't be able to (or enforce) a contract signed by a drunk.

              • +1

                @Brian McGee: My point is the burden of proof in civil litigation completely lies on the party claiming a point. In this case the patient isnt the decision maker (the guardian is), so the state of mind doesnt really matter here. Of course I completely emphasise with the patient but it is pretty likely they have signed off something to allow them to be billed for the short stay, yet they have no material proof of what the medical staff has told them verbally.

      • +1

        Your wall of text implies the hospital does the right thing because they're obliged to and you expect the patient to have blind faith that people will follow those practices…and you claim I have no idea?

        Those laws were written (after the fact) because unsafe, incompetent and shady people exist in this world.

        You're in your feels because you know I'm right; that common sense, basic logic, responsibility and covering your butt WORKS. The buck stops here.

        Good luck bringing hearsay to court.
        If it's not provable, it's worthless.
        Meditate on that. It may just save your life.

        • +1

          I'm not taking either of your sides in this discussion, however matters like these are mostly brought before civil claims tribunals and heresay-level submissions of evidence by those disputing a fee amount are absolutely accepted in them.

          • @infinite: Forevs, re:

            '… h[ear]say-level submissions of evidence by those disputing a fee amount are absolutely accepted in them'

            There is a world of difference between a tribunal/court allowing something to be submitted (i.e.'accepting' it as a submission, just to appease someone/a side), and that tribunal/court actually even reading it, let alone considering it.

            The simple reason why no form of hearsay is genuinely considered by any legal adjudicating body (other than extremely corrupt ones in countries that still operate proceedings akin to witch hunts) is that anyone can say that they 'heard' anything they like, whether it is true or not. Ergo, it does not constitute actual evidence, even remotely.

      • Yo Bobby, you seem to be assuming that we live in a perfect world, and that everyone adheres to the letter of the law. Those are both ludicrous assumptions. In reality, as the dude above said:

        '… If it's not in writing, it's worthless.'

        • In reality the ACL consumer guarantees exist and cannot be absolved, diminished or ignored by signing a contract or release form.
          In summary
          Information must be accurate and truthful
          Information on prices
          claims about the value, benefits, qualities or performance of products and services
          any information provided by staff, whether verbally or in writing
          Any statement that creates a false impression about goods and services can be breaking the law.

          • @Brian McGee: My point is, if you can't prove that someone broke the law, you have no realistic prospect of bringing them to account for it. That's why you need to get things in writing.

            Your point seems to be 'don't worry you'll be fine OP, because technically the law is on your side' (?)

            • -1

              @GnarlyKnuckles: So you are happy to wave your rights and consumer laws meant to protect you in cases like this?

              because technically the law is on your side

              Because technically they are in the stronger position to argue when they haven't paid the bill. If they give up all their consumer rights then whats the point in having them?

  • +16

    my mother died overseas due to a precondition. she spent time at two hospitals. the bill came in at 30k euros each.

    Lucky the legislation of the country stated that no actual payment needs to be done if someone is admitted to emergency regardless of their nationality.

    and so, we presented that to them and they stopped trying to bill us.

    yay. thanks Spain!

    check what au laws say

    • +1

      i found https://www.nslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/RNSH/Documents/Overseas%…

      to say

      "Royal North Shore Hospital (RNSH) is a tertiary hospital providing exceptional medical care to all those in need."

      and later

      "The service you receive will be limited to medically necessary care unless you are able to provide one of the following:"

      so it sounds like if you turn up to hospital dying and just stay there without paying or agreeing to pay - and literally haggling with your life - then they'll treat you once you lose consciousness then do what they need to so you're conscious and not dying then kick you out until you next loose consciousness.

      • +4

        It’s an interesting point. If you refuse to sign the patient election form and are sick enough, they will still treat you. It doesn’t stop them from still trying to pursue the costs. In OPs case given it was a child, they would have very likely treated the child without the form being signed.

    • yeah in france a fellow foreign student was seriously burnt and had top specialist treatment and the social worker got everything that wasnt covered by insurance waived. In her words, you've got other stuff to worry about and your just students

  • +25

    Why did they not have travel insurance?

      • +7

        Personally I think our Government should bring in a levee that covers all visitors for health care costs.

        • +24

          Not sure that would work. If it was like $50 or even $500, people would just rock up with all sorts of medical conditions.

          They got off pretty lightly - if they tried an ER visit in the USA they'd be looking at $30k i reckon.

          • -1

            @thatonethere: Pre-existing conditions or just live with it. The current system is pretty poor.

          • +4

            @thatonethere: very true,
            tourist enters australia, falls over scrapes knee and asks hospital to remove their tumour

            • @Sinnerator: No in-sin, that would be excluded from treatment, as a 'pre-existing condition'.

        • +8

          Then everyone with a chronic illness would "holiday" in Australia.

          • @AustriaBargain: Pre existing conditions excluded. Right now they could still come and skip out without paying the bill.

            • +2

              @try2bhelpful: Extreme sports people could come here an do all reckless stuff and cheap out on insurance knowing that the government will pay for their injuries for them.

              • @AustriaBargain: There can be conditions applied, just as there are with other insurances. However, the number of cases are likely to be small and, right now, there is little to stop these people skipping out and not paying their bills.

          • @AustriaBargain: Again, chronic illnesses are not covered by travel insurance. They are pre-existing conditions.

            • @GnarlyKnuckles: We'll have professional bar fighters coming here just to get into bar fights for TikTok clout.

              • @AustriaBargain: This seems a bit of a stretch, and note that many travel insurance policies become null and void if the dude is 'tanked'. I actually wonder if many Aussies are aware of this. When I mention this to them many tell me that they spend 80%—100% of their holidays (to Bali/Thailand etc.) with a registerable alcohol reading above 0.02, which would void some insurance policies completely …

        • +4

          It’s a nice idea, but we’d end up with people doing medical tourism. It actually already happens. People rock up and are treated and have no way to pay. The hospital can’t pursue a debt if the person has no money. People even come and are so unwell they can’t be transported back home and sometimes even stay in the hospital for months as they have no discharge destination. It means a bed is blocked for other patients, which means longer waits in ED etc etc.

          • @morse: As you said it happens already. The insurance scheme would, at least, bring in some money.

            • +1

              @try2bhelpful: it would happen more if it was a known and advertised thing. I don’t think it would cover the costs to be honest. Someone could do a cost benefit analysis of course. The alternative would be mandatory health insurance to a required specification (same as how health insurance is standardised). Either a levy or mandatory insurance will be hotly contested by the tourism industry, who will say it makes visiting Australia less attractive.

              The hospitals also often don’t love these kind of schemes as they receive funds through a service agreement from the department which is an estimate largely driven by previous years activity. These kind of schemes are generally not a direct payment and it just comes in a part of general revenue, and a lot of people feels it often doesn’t cover the real costs or get directly to the areas that provide the service. Of course all revenue is welcome, but if it doesn’t cover the cost of the increased service, the hospital can end up worse off. I suppose it could be some sort of direct claim scheme where the hospital submits an invoice to the scheme (but if my experience with health economics is anything to go by, this would be unlikely to occur in Aus for public hospitals)

              • +1

                @morse: We, already, have reciprocal agreements with some other countries. I think the economics would be there like they are with any other insurance. It would be similar to compulsory third party car insurance to cover road trauma costs. If you can’t afford insurance you can’t afford to travel.

                • +1

                  @try2bhelpful: Yeah, I don’t disagree with the ‘if you can’t afford insurance you can afford to travel’ sentiment. I just doubt it will ever come in as mandatory as the tourism lobby will say it will prevent tourism. If it truely covered costs it would be awesome, but in that case it would be expensive. Some mandatory standardisation of travel insurance products (for the health side of it at least) would be great too. Many insurances don’t actually cover what people need and they still end up out of pocket.

            • @try2bhelpful: Hey t2bh, re:

              'The insurance scheme would, at least, bring in some money.'

              Insurance companies lose money on those who make claims; they only remain profitable if enough peeps don't make claims. I.e. setting up a 'medical tourism business' funded by insurance companies would make zero economic sense, and in fact would be a total financial disaster.

        • That would just lead to an increase in jacked up corporate prices mate. Not lying. It will just give hospitals power to like charge whatever the F they want, as government will simply just pay them (and they know about it) - Just like HECS right now that's the reason why So many people cannot afford to educate themselves, because government pays for it all on loan under that person.

      • +7

        So, the problem seems to be in the clause in the data collection form that says the fee estimate provided to you is an estimate only and further charges may be incurred.

        To me, a Data Collection Form should be used in collecting primary information in assisting treating the patient, allergies, Next of Kin.

        I'd be a bit upset if it is being used to sneak in a fee or provide a gateway to charges when you are under some stress.

        But I haven't seen the form, so they should have given you a copy of anything you signed or agreed to.

        Otherwise, have you asked whether their Country has a reciprocal Treatment agreement with Australia? https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/when-reciprocal-health-…

        Have they got any Cover under their Credit Card purchase of Travel?

      • +1

        That is a poor excuse. Member since 13 hours ago.

      • +1

        Lucky they didn't simply overlook that and go to the US….the price you've been given is cheap compared to the rest what the rest of the world could charge.

        • +1

          MS, re:

          '… cheap compared to the rest what the rest of the world could charge.'

          That is absolute piffle. The USA is not 'the rest of the world'.

          That said, I do agree that they would most likely have been much worse off if this had happened in the USA; but that is pretty much a given in almost any situation when it comes to the cost of healthcare in the USA. The USA tends to be what the rest of the world looks to for the absolute shining example of how not to 'do' healthcare.

    • It's dumb but not relevant to the OP's inquiry.

  • +28

    Yikes, in a foreign country without travel/health insurance…….

    • Yep, definitely lesson learned

    • Yes but Aus is a pretty good foreign country to travel to without any insurance

      • +4

        This tale of woe would tend to disagree with your statement. OP's family were fortunate in not requiring an ambo.

        • +5

          Imagine their luck if they had travelled to America instead & their child needed medical treatment

          • +8

            @[Deactivated]: This would have been the first month's interest payment on the bill.

            • @DashCam AKA Rolts: Probably, if the child was provided with any medical treatment at all. I understand that their medicos can be quite ruthless in who they choose to even treat, if they don't have adequate insurance or are unable to pay upfront.

          • @[Deactivated]: When we go to America we get unlimited health cover. Truly frightening.

            • @try2bhelpful: I've heard some horror stories. You're wise to obtain the highest cover available.

              • +2

                @[Deactivated]: Fortunately I’ve never had to use it but I’ve heard the horror stories as well. Frankly I don’t give a toss about my luggage, I can live with coughing up for hotels I can’t use, but health insurance is a must wherever I go.

          • -2

            @[Deactivated]: Ambo's in most US states charge less than we do for those without specific ambo insurance.

            Medical treatment in the US vs Australia without insurance in private hospitals also costs very similar amounts, except that in the US, the treatments and standard of medications you access too is waaaaay higher.

            The US also has public and private hospitals like we do. You can choose to get free or paid-for medical care. Private health insurance in the US for the same cost as what we pay for over here also covers a huge amount more services and coverage than we get - as well as most employers over in the US provide you with health insurance.

            Most people trashing the US healthcare system have never experienced it & a lot of those who bitch about it are giving extreme examples that are the exception to the rule of how it works. Having traveled and competed in the lower ranks of a few different pro sports, I can tell you for example I paid more for an ambulance trip and admission to a hospital in Sweden (with travel insurance) than I did in the US (without any insurance). Both of those trips were cheaper than when I was billed for an ambulance when working interstate and getting kidney stones while in Adelaide a couple years back, which was around $1000 just to come out and something like an additional $6 per km for their round trip.

            • +1

              @infinite: I don't know about you but I've had quite the week. I've been working through the past couple of weekends as well & I'm so tired.

              I'm also reconsidering how to best engage on here with other peeps. It's no longer fun or a light-hearted distraction from work. The light banter & laffs are few & far between & an increase in open hostility towards females, is of concern and feels super unwelcoming. I think a break from all the skullduggery of late, may be in order.

              • @[Deactivated]:

                an increase in open hostility towards females, is of concern and feels super unwelcoming.

                Interesting, I haven't seen a single case of that happening here.

                Double interesting, because no one's user profile has any indication of male/female in it either, that I'm aware of.

                • +1

                  @infinite: Aside from Pam, of course, & much speculation about jv, there are a few of us that are not of the 'sausagefest' membership tier. I've found it odd that on occasion, certain accounts have even been chastised by others when they've 'dared' to declare that they're female. Weird, huh?

                  You must tell me the forums you frequent on here to not have read at least some of the more recent hateful comments. I've even had an account take exception to one of my comments by responding 'b****' & then promptly deleted it once I replied and they knew I had seen it.

                  I may have been spoilt by the conduct rules on the FB groups that I'm a part of although some of the parents in the school FB group really push the envelope however since you know each other irl, you cannot hide behind the anonymity afforded to accounts on here.

                  Anyways, apologies if this has been a bit out of left field. I hope you enjoy the rest of your evening & w/e.

                  • @[Deactivated]: They can't see it because they don't experience it. Don't even bother, I gave up trying to call it out years ago. No matter what you say it will be explained away as it's so deeply ingrained.

                    • @MessyG:

                      They can't see it because they don't experience it. Don't even bother, I gave up trying to call it out years ago. No matter what you say it will be explained away as it's so deeply ingrained.

                      No one takes your claims seriously because it's painfully obvious your just making them up, or trying to claim victim-hood over having your laughably bad takes on everything shoveled back over the fence at you.

                      • @infinite: Don't worry, I wont take your personal attack over me agreeing with someone, as misogyny.

                        • @MessyG:

                          Don't worry, I wont take your personal attack

                          Stating a fact isn't a personal attack.

                    • @MessyG: Oh my …. the reply to your comment is too bizarre even for words! Like, literally W T F ??

                  • @[Deactivated]:

                    there are a few of us that are not of the 'sausagefest' membership tier.

                    How on earth are you leaping to completely invented gender percentages here on a bargain shopping site, that has accounts with random names and no indicators of gender what so ever?

                    I've even had an account take exception to one of my comments by responding 'b****' & then promptly deleted it once I replied and they knew I had seen it.

                    Don't even remotely believe it.

                    I may have been spoilt by the conduct rules on the FB groups that I'm a part of although some of the parents in the school FB group really push the envelope however since you know each other irl, you cannot hide behind the anonymity afforded to accounts on here.

                    What's Facebook got to do with anything being discussed here?

              • +1

                @[Deactivated]: i know the feeling i find its the case everywhere these days, no matter what you mention just to talk casually people get so defensive if they dont agree they wont even want to discuss the topic or will just hammer their opinion (in a monologue)

                (i cant say i've seen anything specifically directed towards females, its about anything from computer parts, cars to just a simple opinion)

                • @juki: Hey jukes, re:

                  '(i cant say i've seen anything specifically directed towards females, its about anything from computer parts, cars to just a simple opinion)'

                  Thank you for your honesty. I suspect that what has happened here is that KJ has relatively recently escalated/expanded her 'fields of input' to include comments on a much broader range of topics, some of them political/divisive etc.; and was not quite prepared for the inevitable fact that peeps would actually respond—sometimes extensively and passionately—with their own opinions.

                  That would explain why KJ states that she no longer finds it 'a fun or a light-hearted distraction from work' (though not why she suddenly perceives the OzB community to be misogynistic?!? That is a weird assertion).

                  You are of course welcome to remain here as an observer or a contributor KJ, but it seems that someone needs to state the obvious, given your odd comments in these regards:

                  If you find that this website/forum is having a negative effect on your life, I think you should cease engaging with it.

                  • +1

                    @GnarlyKnuckles: You guys always analyse each others replies in depth like this ?!

                    there is a slight misunderstanding, its on forums in general that i think people get on their high horses and offended to every and anything these days.
                    In fact OZB isnt that bad, i dont have the stats to conclude whether its age, gender or maybe stingey related :)
                    I did find it weird that OZB be considered mysogonistic as nothing was pointing that way when i wrote it, but a lot of communication is about jingling your keys to get attention so who knows, who cares…
                    I do move on so no worries about it, you guys do seem to feel strongly about something, maybe i'm out of touch, its all good

            • @infinite: Americans on Twitter, Reddit, and Facebook would beg to disagree with you.

              The price the patient has been quoted for in hospital paediatric care is cheap compared to the US. You can't just go to any private hospital in the US with your health insurance, if your provider is out of area, you pay full price. Go and check out @drglaucomflecken on Twitter when he had a heart attack at home, was resuscitated, taken to the nearest ICU and ED (unconscious mind) and because the doctor rostered on was not on the insurer list, he received a bill for $30k.

              It's $99 in Vic for an ambulance membership. And most private health insurance has ambulance cover,

              Also US private health insurance, according to investopaedia…

              In 2020, annual premiums for health coverage for a family of four averaged $21,342, but employers picked up 73% of that cost.

              That's….insane.

              • @MessyG:

                It's $99 in Vic for an ambulance membership. And most private health insurance has ambulance cover

                And?

                It's $183 in South Australia and more in other states.

                Almost no basic private health insurance in Australia covers Ambulance or private Hospital cover, either.

                You can't just go to any private hospital in the US with your health insurance, if your provider is out of area, you pay full price.

                That's the same as Australia. Different medical facilities, services and practitioners all accept only certain insurance providers and types of insurance from said provider.

                Also US private health insurance, according to investopaedia…

                Why cherry pick an example of the highest possible private health insurance and it's cost, then attempt to mislead by making it look like that expense and level of insurance is normal? That's extremely disingenuous and a also a giant red flag that you have never worked or lived in the US.

                Mid-range private health insurance in the US is $328 a year and it covers about 5 times as much as what our mid-range equivalents do, as well as full coverage for any emergency care at any private hospital in the country that can treat your emergency need. That emergency coverage also includes dental work up to a few thousand dollars. No "wait times", no exclusions for prior or existing health conditions. Then on top of that, depending on the state you lie in, you get part of that cost covered by the state government. The federal government also pays a portion of it if you are a low income earner, which in most cases is a family on $180K or less. Bust most of that is irrelevant, as the number of employers who don't provide that level of health insurance or dramatically better as part of a salary (even you only work part time or casual) is already very rare.

                • @infinite: The US spends a higher proportion of their GDP than other developed countries for far worse health outcomes. You having accessed healthcare over there does not make you an expert. Try reading peoples experiences and looking at costs across the board. Their system is a mess. Go and have look at what US doctors have to say about it on any channel. If you think what we pay for healthcare here even closely equates to the US, then it's just blindingly obvious you've got no idea.

                  • @MessyG:

                    The US spends a higher proportion of their GDP than other developed countries for far worse health outcomes.

                    That's solely an issue of money being pissed down the drain providing medical treatment and services for the 100's of thousands of illegal immigrants that break through their borders every year. That's not an issue within their own hospital or health system.

                • @infinite: Hey MG, re:

                  '… if you are a low income earner, which in most cases is a family on $180K or less'

                  Wait, what?

                  $180k USD = $262k AUD

                  Are you seriously telling me that a family in the USA on anything less than $262k AUD is considered 'low income earn[ing]'?!?

                  If that is so, then the USA is truly the land of milk and honey.

      • Better than some, but definitely not great.

        • There's just no pleasing some

      • Re:

        'Yes but Aus is a pretty good foreign country to travel to without any insurance'

        Scoff … it is the precise opposite of that. Should any hapless uninsured traveller from abroad have the misfortune to require even a visit to hospital (let alone spend any time there in an actual bed), the Australian healthcare 'system' will mercilessly and repeatedly sink their their opportunistic teeth in for as long as they possibly can, and extract as much money from that person as they can.

        Certain 'classes' of visitors are required to have comprehensive/extensive health insurance before they set foot on our shore. Anyone who is not required to have that is assumed to be 'fair game', and is rorted accordingly, and shamelessly, at the slightest opportunity.

  • +4

    A) can people start getting travel insurance? I mean it doesn't have to be wizbang, even just coverage for hospital. I mean especially if you've got a kid.
    B) i agree with you OP. Misleading and you weren't able to make an informed decision as the information they provided you with was completely incorrect. I mean should nurses even have to talk about financials? Really not the right way. There should be a number you can call and ask questions and they'll provide you with an accurate estimate.
    Push it in writing again and then make the complaint to whatever governing body looks after hospitals and healthcare.

  • +15

    definitely fight it.

    the emergency fee is just an estimate but the 2000 is no longer an emergency fee, it's a short stay fee.

    i believe in open and transparent hospital fees, and that was not honest or transparent.

    i paid for private surgery, shit 10 years ago now. Everything was paid, no problem. Hospital bed. surgeon. theatre fee. anaesthetist. assistant surgeon etc etc etc day after surgery "a physio" came to my bed and said "do you have any questions. here's an a4 paper with stretches"

    i didn't ask for him
    i wasnt asked if i wanted him.
    he just showed up for 60 seconds and left.

    2 months later i get a physio bill in the mail for $50. I was so fcking outraged!!! WTF? Everything was itemised and prepaid beforehand and ain't no one told me/asked me/ informed me about a fee for this douche to give me a piece of paper. Even if it a compulsory aspect of discharge, you do not get to force me to incur a charge without my knowledge.

    surgery was $15k and to this day the fact they had the AUDACITY to do that over $50 burns me

    • wow.

    • +1

      I hear you. I had that a few years ago where the anesthetist came and had a quick chat (under a minute) with me before a minor operation. When the bill arrived, there was a $80 anesthetist 'consultation' fee. Ridiculous. If I remember rightly, there were 5 people waiting for an operation and he was the anesthetist for all of them, so that's $400 for probably 5 minutes work. Okay, insurance covered it but that's pretty good candy for a nonsense service.

      • +4

        And before the anaesthetist came in, they had come up with an anaesthetic plan that was safe you, checked your medical history and medications, discussed the procedure with staff and the safest way to proceed, not to mention the training that enabled them to do that.

        That is not a nonsense service. Anaesthetic training is one of the hardest training programmes there is.

        • -3

          $80 is a nonsense fee. Pure medical gravy train bullshit.

          • @R4: Next time you are in the same situation get up the anaesth' . Big Time! Bark your $80 back about the injustices.
            What could possibly go wrong?

            • @Protractor: Nonsense. My remark was in response to another comment about bullshit fees - there was no injustice (what a ridiculous term in this context). If you're happy paying $80 for 45 seconds of 'consultation', then party on with that. I was just calling out the gravy train nature of these fees. If someone can make $400 for 5 minutes of 'work' then more power to them - it's just the average punter who has to pay for it. No biggie.

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