What Is The Point of Pharmacists (Honest Question)

ddilrat on 03/08/2023 - 17:12

I am not trying to be rude to anyone's profession but I am honestly asking and hope someone can explain the process.

What I don't understand is a pharmacists role in filling a script other than putting your details into the system. You already see a physician who prescribes the medicine, tells you about dosage and side effects, knows what other medications you are taking and also what the new prescription is for.

What's the point of the pharmacist then asking a bunch of the same or similar questions? Why does it take so long to dispense especially when you have been to the pharmacy before. Looks like it all comes straight out of a machine now anyway.

Seems like their only purpose is to keep people in store to buy other crap.

Health & Beauty

Comments

- - - johninmelb on 04/08/2023 - 21:53
      
      Your specialist should know what you are currently taking as the referral your doctor wrote for you to see him will contain all the relevant information on previous conditions, and what medications you have been prescribed.
      
      Your doctor should know what the specialist is doing and what medications - if any - he/she has prescribed as that will be in the letter he writes to your doctor after he has seen you. In any case, if he puts you on a regular medication, your doctor will be responsible for issuing the repeat scripts once the script the specialist gave you runs out.
      
      That's how it all works for me. However I only see one GP, several specialists, and one pharmacy.
      - jjjaar on 04/08/2023 - 22:09
        
        @johninmelb: It can take several months to a year to see some specialists, so medications and information on referrals aren’t always accurate and up to date.
        
        I usually dispense medication from specialists right after seeing them, and therefore before going back to my GP or before my GP receives the information from the specialist, so the sense check from the GP can’t happen prior to taking the medications
        
        But the list of previously dispensed medications is always accurate and up to date at the pharmacy, so they’re able to do that very important sense check prior to dispensing.
        
        Also not all medications can be transferred back to the GP to manage. Yes they know about them, but they may not be involved in ongoing management of them.
  - ripesashimi on 04/08/2023 - 01:22
    
    My uncle is a GP. He knows about 4 items out of my 22 bottle stack.
    
    He did call me crazy for taking minoxidil for hair loss.
    - SpainKing on 05/08/2023 - 08:22
      
      What was his justification for you being crazy by taking minoxidil? Topical or oral?
      - LoserScott on 05/08/2023 - 08:59
        
        @SpainKing: Sexual maybe.
CurlCurl on 03/08/2023 - 17:59

+14

Recently in hospital and picked up MRSA. Tests done. Pathology found ZZZ antibiotic was the best to use. Hospital Pharmacy said nope as a red flag came up with the blood thinners I am on.

That's one reason Pharmacists are there.
- GordonD on 03/08/2023 - 18:27
  
  +6
  
  Hospital Pharmacy said nope as a red flag came up with the blood thinners I am on.
  
  That doesn't require a pharmacist. It just requires the computer program the doctor is using to issue the prescription to look at other medications you are on to look for these sorts of things. To get it right at point of prescription, not hope that someone further down the line will know, and notice and fix it. That's how good processes are built these days. You pick up problems as early as possible in the process, rather than relying on checks late in the process to look for and find them.
  - ddilrat on 03/08/2023 - 23:24
    
    +3
    
    Yeah very true, if my doctor isn't picking up on it first then I need a new doctor
  - tensionday on 05/08/2023 - 07:48
    
    +2
    
    Unfortunately medicine is not black and white like you describe. Nurses don't pick up these issues as they are not trained. Doctors could, but sometimes don't (due to lack of time or expertise).
    
    There are levels of tolerance in how much a drug will interact and how much adverse effect we will tolerate to gain the treatment. A risk vs benefit scenario.
    
    Most junior doctors who are prescribing in our hospitals have 4 years of medical training (which sounds like a lot, until you realise after 4 years they still have much to learn and pharmacology is only touched on for about 6 months of the degree), so they do make mistakes/oversights. Conversely a pharmacist will have 4 years of pharmacology centred education.
    
    Senior doctors should know interactions however it is typically only within their scope of training.
    When a cardiologist is playing around with cardiac meds in a patient who is also on rheumatological medications, they can not always make the judgement calls on how much interaction is tolerated.
    
    The computer is not yet able to discern between true interactions to be concerned about, and fluff, hence doctors now face alert fatigue from these systems (yes we could improve the process, however if it were so simple we would have already done that - medicine is very complex).
    
    This is where the clinical pharmacists are often engaged and are an asset to the team.
  - ronnknee on 05/08/2023 - 16:15
    
    +1
    
    That doesn't require a pharmacist. It just requires the computer program the doctor is using to issue the prescription
    
    We can extend your logic by getting rid of doctors as well and just use the internet to diagnose ourselves.
  - greatlamp on 06/08/2023 - 06:55
    
    That doesn't require a pharmacist. It just requires the computer program the doctor is using to issue the prescription to look at other medications you are on to look for these sorts of things.
    
    Those computer programs flag about a dozen warnings for practically every single patient.
    
    The risks of missing something are serious, so there is someone trained to check the doctor's prescription. This role could be performed by a second doctor, it cannot be performed by the same doctor writing the prescription
  - CurlCurl on 06/08/2023 - 10:58
    
    +1
    
    Staff Drs in hospitals don't have the time. It's a madhouse.
- [Deactivated] on 03/08/2023 - 18:50
  
  Recently in hospital and picked up MRSA.
  
  Yikes! Hope you're OK.
  
  Colleague was recently in hospital for 2 weeks as op kept being delayed. Finally had the op & the surgeon wanted him to go home the next day & used increased likelihood of picking up hospital bugs to influence decision.
  - CurlCurl on 03/08/2023 - 19:02
    
    +1
    
    Yikes! Hope you're OK.
    
    Yep. Ok now. Busted my hip. Eleven weeks in hospital. Eight weeks with a Picc line, oral antibiotics for 12 months at home.
    
    Hospitals are full of of MRSA.
- OzzyOzbourne on 04/08/2023 - 23:11
  
  Wouldn't go to that hospital again with that track record
jv on 03/08/2023 - 18:01

+3

What Is The Point of Pharmacists

To sell pharmaceuticals.
- Almost Banned on 03/08/2023 - 23:05
  
  +3
  
  Not sure that's right.
  My understanding is that pharmacists are meant to be scientifically trained and have a code which requires them to rely on evidence based treatment - and yet they fill their stores with hocus-pocus nonsense cures that have no scientific basis.
  In fact I strongly suggest they make the bulk of their money off junk cures and vitamin supplements and the like that just get excreted…
  - jv on 03/08/2023 - 23:39
    
    A pharmacist is a healthcare professional who specializes in the preparation, dispensing, and management of medications to ensure safe and effective use, while also providing medication counseling and guidance to patients and healthcare providers
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacist
  - jv on 03/08/2023 - 23:40
    
    and yet they fill their stores
    
    Most are just employees, not owners.
    - Almost Banned on 04/08/2023 - 08:44
      
      and yet they fill their stores
      
      It is not the staff that is to blame - it is the pharmacist owners.
      - jv on 04/08/2023 - 09:39
        
        @Almost Banned:
        
        it is the pharmacist owners.
        
        Might not be owned by pharmacists…
        
        Almost Banned on 04/08/2023 - 10:45
        
        @jv: True, but it is staffed by pharmacists, who are lending their credibility to the snake oil…
        
        jv on 04/08/2023 - 11:15
        
        @Almost Banned: Employees are not responsible for what the store sells.
  - CurlCurl on 04/08/2023 - 12:54
    
    In fact I strongly suggest they make the bulk of their money off junk cures and vitamin supplements and the like that just get excreted…
    
    You don't know how wrong you are. Most hocus-pocus nonsense cures meaning vitamins are purchased through Coles and Woolworths on special. The pharmacies can't compete on price except Chemist Warehouse.
  - greatlamp on 06/08/2023 - 07:04
    
    In fact I strongly suggest they make the bulk of their money off junk cures
    
    It might appear that way, but the vast majority of a pharmacy's profit in fact comes from prescriptions for the elderly.
    
    The kind of person who uses OzBargain is not a typical pharmacy customer, hence they don't see the value
  - Bunnyburger on 07/08/2023 - 12:59
    
    Their biggest sin is selling that flu medicine that doesn't work, phenylphrine.
- Brainwhacker on 04/08/2023 - 13:01
  
  Don’t forget Vitamins !
  - jv on 04/08/2023 - 13:08
    
    I haven't. I took mine this morning…
GordonD on 03/08/2023 - 18:08

+3

Pharmacists are there because they used to be a necessary and important part of the process. They used to make up the medication. They would mix the necessary basic ingredients, and package it into appropriate doses, and show the customer how to use it.

Now medications are a lot more specialised and sophisticated, and there is a huge pharmaceutical industry that creates a huge range of medications, and puts them in boxes, ready to hand to the customer in easy to take form in the correct safe doses. So all the pharmacist is doing now is telling the machine which medication packet to issue them, and making up a label to go on it, and performing a some administrative functions that could be easily computerised or handled by an AI.

No-one has the power to wave a wand and excise them from the process, and the medical industry doesn't want to because they provide a backup to protect the public from stupid doctors, and occasionally to give valuable medical advice about minor matters. No-one would dare to suggest they should be gotten rid of because the pharmaceutical industry has made them redundant. Anyone daring to do that would be loudly accused of putting patient safety at risk.

Remember also that traditionally pharmacists/chemists also sold a lot of chemicals used for other than medical purposes that ordinary members of the public are now not allowed access to. You used to just be able to buy them over the counter, and do whatever you liked with them. If you had a problem with a pest you just bought the appropriate poison. Arsenic for this. Strychnine for that. Now the nanny state protects us from anything that it thinks we might misuse.
- ssfps on 04/08/2023 - 02:20
  
  aye aye.
  I remember buying pure ethanol from a pharmacist a long time ago, along with various chemicals that would get you added to watch lists today! Thank goodness we're protected from kids buying grams of stuff for their chemistry sets ;)
  - trapper on 06/08/2023 - 00:07
    
    These days you can just get it all online lol
- Breno785au on 06/08/2023 - 11:41
  
  I've always wondered, why would you get a degree in (whatever) just to work behind the counter dispensing medicine in a retail store?
  There has to be something more to it but I don't know that is.
  - Gnilgorf on 06/08/2023 - 15:18
    
    Like many other professions, limited jobs and experience requirements. Non-community pharmacist positions (such as hospital, research, etc) are highly sought after and there are only so many positions to go around.
    
    If you manage to get in early during intern years then sweet. But if u get "stuck", for lack of a better word, in community then its hard to break out since youll lack the experience.
    
    With that being said, some are more business or community minded and more than happy to start up their own local pharmacy.
alvian on 03/08/2023 - 18:09

+5

Doctors want to treat patients. They don't want to manage the medicines that they would prescribe (store inventories in proper conditions, stock level control, return expiring meds, chase orders, recommend generics, give advice on common pharmacy meds, manage PBS concessions, calculate PBS safety net, etc).

Patients want doctors to prescribe medicines without bias, not what the doctors might have in their inventories.
- trapper on 06/08/2023 - 00:07
  
  Yeah it's two completely separate enterprises, I don't understand what the confusion is here.
DASHCAM NOW DUDE on 03/08/2023 - 18:13

I usually see my pharmacist first before going to see a doctor.
- Gdsamp on 03/08/2023 - 19:44
  
  +100 USA Big hpharma social credit
Protractor on 03/08/2023 - 20:47

+3

Another deliberately obtuse thread?

Not all patients LISTEN to or understand Drs. Enter the pharmacist at point of sale.
Pharmacists (call it a bonus) explain shit that is important and dbl check on some things while you are there.Not sure what your REAL problem is OP. I like being informed for free. I like that my pharmacist cares. I can also resist all the shit in a shop I don't want to buy.
You should just buy your meds online. Opt out of pesky pharmacy model.You'll save minutes of life per event!
Win, win for everyone.
I hate the idea of of 'just shut up and gimme my scrip' .
- ssfps on 04/08/2023 - 02:17
  
  I hate the idea of of 'just shut up and gimme my scrip' .
  
  For someone that has a bold opinion on everything, it surprises me that you want to defer to someone who who reads off two lines that you can find in the first result of a web search on a drug name.
  - Protractor on 04/08/2023 - 10:03
    
    -2
    
    Oh yes, the great god google.
    Gee. How silly of me (people) to trust a professional who has served our family for decades.
    
    I'm surprised your invested enough in me to be surprised.
amzinguserman on 03/08/2023 - 21:29

+9

This a prime example of "ignorance is strength" thinking.

Dude has access to the internet but no critical thinking skills but you cant call him out of it because thats a personal attack but trying to explain it to them makes them double down.
- ddilrat on 03/08/2023 - 22:18
  
  What's critical Thinking - next post
Yorkshire-Man on 03/08/2023 - 21:40

+6

I would have probably shared this view in my 20's cause that was what they did for me. Now I'm old, take lots of pills & need their help, I now value their opinion
- ddilrat on 03/08/2023 - 22:19
  
  That's true, I am also now old(er) and perhaps I will start to see this benefit
CurlCurl on 03/08/2023 - 21:40

+1

Not all patients LISTEN to or understand Drs. Enter the pharmacist at point of sale.
Pharmacists (call it a bonus) explain shit that is important and dbl check on some things while you are there.Not sure what your REAL problem is OP. I like being informed for free. I like that my pharmacist cares. I can also resist all the shit in a shop I don't want to buy.
You should just buy your meds online. Opt out of pesky pharmacy model.You'll save minutes of life per event!
Win, win for everyone.
I hate the idea of of 'just shut up and gimme my scrip' .

Crikey. I can't believe I have finally agreed with you and gave you a + for this post.
- ddilrat on 03/08/2023 - 22:20
  
  So why would they listen to or understand the pharmacist?
thedevil1987 on 03/08/2023 - 22:16

+2

AI will replace pharmacists soon!
- Ozpit on 04/08/2023 - 10:05
  
  … and doctors.
- Protractor on 04/08/2023 - 10:06
  
  Should we make a list,of who gets replaced, in priority order?
  I can think of a lot more useless roles to knock off early
[Deactivated] on 03/08/2023 - 22:33

-2

I'd go step further and ask what's the point of GP.
- iridiumstem on 03/08/2023 - 22:50
  
  -1
  
  I wager that even further and go, what is a point?
- Ozpit on 04/08/2023 - 10:08
  
  -1
  
  My GP keeps writing prescriptions for stuff I can get off the shelf. That must be a point.
  - taradavey on 04/08/2023 - 11:27
    
    -2
    
    They get financial kickbacks from the government for every script they write.
  - mattmel96 on 04/08/2023 - 16:51
    
    +2
    
    I could do that with some of my medications, especially anti-inflammatory tablets, albeit at half the strength (so just take double the amount). Getting them on a script can sometime make them cheaper, in this case quite significantly.
iforgotmysocks on 03/08/2023 - 22:36

+2

What is the point of anything
Gnilgorf on 03/08/2023 - 22:44

+4

So what OP described is a "Community Pharmacist". Aka the local chemist providing access to the community.

This type, other than taking your script and dispensing the drugs, has to cross check (Even calling up the Dr if need be), Advise of safe usage (When they ask if you've ever taken this drug before), Check potential side effects or unintended interactions (Especially if you walk in with a wad of scripts for different drugs), and help handle any PBS Safety Net or other drug related expenses. They manage to actually get alot done in the limited time they have, as they are continually given new scripts whilst we wait our half n hour or so to get dispensed.

Sadly, the front of house retail is to supplement the relatively low profits from drug dispensing. The gov does subsidise alot, but the pharmacy still has to purchase and maintain stock, pay wages etc like any other store. Think why Auspost sells random stuff too. Not that we need to buy any of it.

Now…then there are Hospital Pharmacists which in itself includes Clinical (They wander the wards monitoring and advising the Dr's) & Manufacturing / Compounding (Who will on the create drugs on the spot, e.g. if a patient is allergic to part of a pill, they can whip up another variation). Further to that there's Regulatory, Research etc etc. With each and every one having to keep an encyclopaedic brain on all medicines and their sourcing and supply, side effects and so forth so that we can actually get the proper medicine, and not accidentally off ourselves consuming it wrongly.

Just my two cents after getting married to my personal drug dispenser, aka my wife's a pharmacist. Still learning more n more about what she does for a living, and its all fascinating stuff.
- [Deactivated] on 03/08/2023 - 22:52
  
  +2
  
  Was she impressed by amount if viagra you were buying?
- ddilrat on 03/08/2023 - 23:03
  
  Can they actually whip up and create a new pill at the hospital?
  
  Thanks for the great info, very interesting
  - Protractor on 04/08/2023 - 10:10
    
    Curious question.
    Possible scenario>
    googling a condition ,faking the symptoms and accessing a particular drug supply , via a hospital pharmacy
    - taradavey on 04/08/2023 - 11:32
      
      Probably, would still need a doctor to prescribe the medication though. The hospital pharmacy won't just make you up a prescription medication and provide it to you without prescription.
      
      Depending on the condition, most of the drugs people would want to get a supply of (benzos, dexys) are usually further investigated and require more thorough diagnosis
      Ie: Dexys for ADHD require a GP visit, referal to a psychiatrist that is actually accepting new patients (can take months to find one through telehealth, there is most likely not one in your area who is taking new patients) an absolute minimum 6 month wait for a psychiatrist (usually closer to 12 months), minimum $500 up to $2,000+ for initial psychiatrist diagnostic appointment, require another appointment to actually get prescribed medication at a low dose (Minimum $200 appoint), further appointments to increase dose.
      Not as simple as "let's fake adhd to get legal speed"
      - Protractor on 04/08/2023 - 11:44
        
        -1
        
        @taradavey: Oh my aching back
  - Gnilgorf on 04/08/2023 - 11:36
    
    "Whip up a new pill" was a vast understatement and oversimplification on my part.
    
    From my albeit limited knowledge, hospitals (some) have the facilities to manufacture limited amounts of customised medication for a hospital patient.
    
    The form that medication can take will vary. Whether it be a capsule, liquid or balm.
    
    As for @Protractor, Good luck faking it in a hospital. They subject everyone to a series of tests to ensure the patient needs what they're attempting to get access to. And even then, the staff still have final say in whether or not to prescribe and dispense.
    - Protractor on 04/08/2023 - 11:43
      
      -1
      
      You might be underestimating dedicated drug 'users' and the pressure to spin the wheels in ED.
      You do know about addicts and shopping around I take it?
      These the smartest dumb ppl around
      - taradavey on 04/08/2023 - 11:49
        
        +1
        
        @Protractor: You ARE underestimating Doctors, Nurses, and Pharmacists.
        What makes you think that somebody who experiences these people attempting to get these drugs without needing then every single day wouldn't be able to recognise somebody faking? How is the knowledge of somebody who is faking something going to be superior to the person who sees it constantly?
        
        Doctors, Nurses, Pharmacists, and even pharmacy staff can spot an addict trying to get a fix clear as day. Even in the lower end of things with codeine.
        It is incredibly naieve to think that you'd get away with faking pain and getting long term benzo prescriptions.
        Only if you have an incredibly careless and lax doctor, in which I would be concerned for my own health.
        But I'm not somebody trying to get pain meds without pain so naturally I value my health more than someone who is.
        
        Protractor on 04/08/2023 - 12:45
        
        -1
        
        @taradavey: Can they just? Why would we need laws to tackle the issue,then?
        Given the health system pressures I doubt the time is available for the scrutiny once meted out. And to be frank, this enormous pressure has probably created addiction withing system employees.
        
        https://mforum.com.au/doctor-shopping-tool-needs-common-sens…
        
        EDIT: And you said yourself> Drs get paid per scrip
        
        Gnilgorf on 04/08/2023 - 13:33
        
        @Protractor: Unfortunately I am all too aware of certain users, as well as the pressures of hospital KPI's, albeit my experience is limited to 2nd hand knowledge.
        
        There are several levels of procedures, including the final discretion exercised by the staff, which are in place to prevent individuals from accessing drugs of addition. Including faking symptoms, or even abusing a relative's legitimate prescription. Sadly, it doesn't prevent the abuse and levels of belligerence experienced by staff members when they are doing their due diligence.
        
        Protractor on 04/08/2023 - 13:41
        
        @Gnilgorf: When it comes to faking anything, it's in the eye of the beholder whether it looks fake or not. But I'm pretty sure desperation & addiction makes for greater acting skills.
        In the end staff are human, and what to be safe after work, as well.
        No-one likes any of this stuff, but this is what our society has morphed into (no pun intended).
        I knew a bloke once who got a job as a security guard at a hospital(years ago now). I bumped into him and he told. Good on you I said, nice cushy job monitoring the car park? Nope said he. Terrified - all shift- wresting with meth heads in ED and around it. And that was well over a decade ago.
        As a species we specialise in detrimental and existential shortcuts.
        
        iridiumstem on 04/08/2023 - 23:34
        
        +2
        
        @Protractor: It's not the acting skill, but more do the stories make sense? You can lie about your symptoms, but can you make a 100% coherent story that is convincing to professionals who are trained to do differential diagnosis, which includes blood tests and other physical tests and stick to that story?
        
        If you go into ED and ask for pain relief, first of all, if your state is like mine, you will wait 5 hours+ before getting a bed assigned to you, maybe additional 2+ hours before a doctor comes in and even sees you. Opioids won't be the first thing that they would be suggesting.
        
        People lie, yes. They malinger. Are they convincing? Sooner or later, you see cracks in the story. One of the videos I saw that was fascinating when I was young was a video of a psychiatrist talking with someone who presented with symptoms of psychosis, as a way to reduce his charges. It was absolutely fascinating how she was able to listen to the entire story, pick out the cracks, and determine that the person was faking the symptoms.
ssfps on 04/08/2023 - 02:12

+1

I know pharmacists that talk about catching life threatening mistakes in prescriptions every so often.
Compounding pharmacists are useful.
Most pharmacists are pretty useless most of the time, acting merely as gatekeepers - then again, most GPs are acting as gatekeepers to basic meds, tests, and sick notes a lot of the time, too, so it's not like pharmacists are any more useless.
ForkSnorter on 04/08/2023 - 07:45

-4

Apparently AI can calculate interactions and safe dosages more accurately and reliably than any human can.
- CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 08:59
  
  +1
  
  Apparently that's not true
  - ForkSnorter on 04/08/2023 - 09:02
    
    Why wouldn't it be true? The data required for these calculations is purely mathematical/chemical.
    - CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 09:07
      
      +1
      
      So when someone goes to a pharmacy they can just upload their CSV file filled with their medical history and known symptoms and previous reactions directly into a computer, no humans involved?
      
      Oh no, wait, it's a bunch of information rattling around in their brain, that another human needs to interrogate them about to determine specific information.
      - ForkSnorter on 04/08/2023 - 09:39
        
        @CrowReally: I didn't mean prescription of medication. Just calculating interactions and safe dosage (based on body weight, etc.). And yes, I'm absolutely correct about this. Please provide evidence that a human can calculate better than a computer, not to mention remember all the possible interactions better than a computer can.
        
        A lot of research is being conducted on AI predicting drug interactions, and some AI is already used in cancer treatment.
        
        If a proper drug-interaction prediction system had been used instead of lazy US physicians and pharmacists, people like Heath Ledger wouldn't have died.
        
        CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 09:44
        
        @ForkSnorter: That's a really stupid take.
        
        It's like saying "prove a scientist/statistician can calculate better than a computer".
        
        Trained humans use their knowledge to manipulate data on computers as part of their work. Computers do the calculations we tell them to. Calculators aren't "better at maths" than mathematicians.
        
        AI is taking the human out of the equation and letting the computer figure out its own inputs. So unless you have the CSV table like I talked about, the AI is dead in the water unless a human comes along and tells it what to do.
        
        ForkSnorter on 04/08/2023 - 09:45
        
        -1
        
        @CrowReally:
        
        the AI is dead in the water unless a human comes along and tells it what to do.
        
        That's exactly what AI does. It does what a human tells it to do. And, I can assure you there is a lot of development and research going on regarding AI and drug-interaction prediction.
        
        CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 09:46
        
        +1
        
        @ForkSnorter: Haha, so we've gone from "it's better than humans, fact" to "well I assure you it's being developed".
        
        Thanks for playing.
        
        ForkSnorter on 04/08/2023 - 09:48
        
        -2
        
        @CrowReally: Not sure how you can't see the connection. We use computers to calculate all kinds of things. An AI system with a comprehensive database of every known interaction would clearly be able to calculate these interactions better than a human could. Where is your reasoning going wrong?
        
        CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 09:55
        
        +1
        
        @ForkSnorter: Oh I don't know, the giant step of getting the right information into the computer in the first place (which like I said before, places reliance on humans interrogating other humans). That was the first major hurdle you fell at.
        
        The second is just blurting out something as laughably untrue as "the giant database with every known interaction", as though that's something that exists, which it doesn't.
        
        In your imagination, in the future, it does, and the AI looks it all up and makes beeping sounds, but that's not the real world.
        
        It's like arguing self-driving cars are better drivers than humans - they have fantastic cameras that can film at all angles and road maps and GPS and sensors and computers can do 10000s of calculations a second, a human can't do that. Sounds great on paper, but show me the proof.
        
        ForkSnorter on 04/08/2023 - 10:11
        
        -3
        
        @CrowReally: You're a really negative person.
        Creating databases is not that difficult. We've already sent spaceships to every planet in the solar system, and a number of moons. How hard could it be to create a database? And the data "every known interaction" obviously already exists. We just need to put it all together.
        
        CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 10:22
        
        +1
        
        @ForkSnorter:
        
        Creating databases is not that difficult. How hard could it be to create a database?
        
        Haha, and now we're "well, the database itself doesn't exist, but come on man, how hard would it be to build?". Let's add that to the "oh we'll also need this" wishlist, yeah? I have to say, for something you told us already was in place your To Do list is getting a bit out of hand.
        
        I think the phrase you're looking for is "Hey, I imagined something and spoke confidently about it as though I knew facts about it. But I actually have no specialised knowledge on this subject, and it's apparent I'm just wistfully promising AI-related things that, while it would be cool if they were a thing, are not a thing. Doubling down instead of admitting I was making stuff up was stupid, and I'm sorry for wasting your time".
        
        Apology accepted.
        
        Protractor on 04/08/2023 - 10:35
        
        @CrowReally: Is that phrase yours or from ChatGP?
        
        CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 10:38
        
        +1
        
        @Protractor: AI is years behind humans (and crows) in structuring roasts and splashing-piss-right-in-their-faces criticism
        
        But in the future when all the databases are connected …
        
        ForkSnorter on 04/08/2023 - 11:09
        
        -2
        
        @CrowReally: You type a lot. By the way there are databases of drug interactions. Do you think that data just sits around in 1980s filing cabinets? Like a said, you're a very negative person.
        
        CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 11:18
        
        +1
        
        @ForkSnorter: Today's lesson is "If you make stuff up to try to sound smart, people can call you out, and that might make you look and feel stupid".
        
        The lesson you've chosen to take away is "Crow is mean, and I probably wasn't wrong after all".
        
        I'm not surprised. See you next time.
        
        Gnilgorf on 04/08/2023 - 11:27
        
        +1
        
        @CrowReally: Just saw this conversation happening and thought i'd mention: Pharmacogenomics~!
        It's an entire field of study devoted to understanding how we humans, at a genetic level would react to particular drugs. Imagine that one day, someone wouldn't have to accidentally find out they were allergic to a type of anaesthetic, especially during a critical surgery. We would just know. Fascinating stuff~!
        
        My pharmacist wife n I were literally talking about this the other day, and the possible plateaus that the field is running into at the moment. i.e. limited database, computing power etc etc. Whether AI gets involved or not wasn't mentioned though. But as with most tech, it's only as good as the information available. Garbage in, Garbage out.
        
        CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 11:36
        
        @Gnilgorf: Oh, thanks for sharing - I hadn't heard of this "Pharmacogenomics" stuff, but it sounds interesting - even if it only prevents baselevel genetic problems as opposed to "this thing you've had clashes with that".
        
        I'm still trying to process the implications that cough medicine you had months before surgery can kill you ( e.g. https://theconversation.com/why-cough-medicines-containing-p… ) - yikes
        
        ForkSnorter on 04/08/2023 - 11:34
        
        -2
        
        @CrowReally: Well, how about you put your faith in the average pharmacist like Heath Ledger did, and I'll put my faith in someone (or something) that actually knows all these interactions and is going to check them.
        
        Also, I'm not going to post all the studies of AI drug interaction calculation because you can google them.
        
        CrowReally on 04/08/2023 - 11:38
        
        @ForkSnorter: yeah, the "something" you're putting your faith in doesn't actually exist, chief.
        
        then again, as the religious will tell you, faith is belief in the absence of evidence
        
        anyway, thanks for free-associating what you think medicine robots are great at, it was a worthwhile contribution
        
        SpainKing on 05/08/2023 - 08:48
        
        +1
        
        @ForkSnorter: "I'm not going to search for and provide evidence of my claims because you can just do that for me. I'm definitely right though, I read all the studies I won't source"
        
        ForkSnorter on 07/08/2023 - 07:22
        
        @SpainKing: A simple google would prove me right, saving you time to think up and type a nasty, sarcastic (and incorrect) comment. But I guess being nasty is more important than truth for you.
        
        SpainKing on 07/08/2023 - 11:32
        
        +1
        
        @ForkSnorter: Well do the simple Google and source your claims mate, if it's that easy maybe you should've just done it from the get go. Instead you've resorted to not addressing any of the arguments at hand and trying to slide in passive aggressive comments in your last two contributions
        
        Coming out and crying "people are being mean to me because they disagree and I might be wrong, they just shouldn't have voiced their opinion to begin with" isn't a great way to handle criticism. You could prove yourself correct or accept you're wrong
        
        You're right though, what I said is incorrect. I should've never expected you to have actually read all those studies. You're not an AI
    - drfuzzy on 05/08/2023 - 02:01
      
      Said like a true non-healthcare professional.
2esc on 04/08/2023 - 09:00

+6

I spent a week in hospital due to a reaction of a prescribed medication the hospital pharmacist is the one that identified the particular component that was the problem the doctors didnt know.
- Protractor on 04/08/2023 - 13:18
  
  codeine?
azero on 04/08/2023 - 09:50

+2

I may have shitty gp s. But all of them would just give a script and say like take this 3 times a day.

And the pharmacist would say take it before / after a meal or it could create heart burn etc…

Also while waiting I over heard a pharmacist telling a patient a medication should not be given to a pregnant patient and asking them to go back to the Dr.

In a nutshell to make sure Dr s do the right thing. Also they get paid peanuts still require a 4 year degree and a internship
- xsacha on 06/08/2023 - 06:48
  
  There's no reason why the doctor couldn't have said this or done this check except that apparently they are wasting everyone's time by waiting for the pharmacist to say it.
taradavey on 04/08/2023 - 10:08

It's also important to keep in mind that pharmacists also double-check medication.

Putting a bunch of non-pharmacists in charge of the dispensary of medicaiton (say if they no longer existed, and the role was just provided to well-trained non-pharmacists) sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Lots of medications look and sound similar but are desparately not.

Also pharmicsts as a generalisation would know a lot more contraindications of medication. A doctor might not think to tell you to not take certain behind-the-counter medication when on blood thinners. A pharmicist will.

ALSO - Pharmacists dispense S8 drugs, like the benzos and stimulants and very importantly, things like methodone and suboxone.
They also can provide all sorts of vaccinations. They would be better trained than a non-pharmacist to recognize what is happening if something goes wrong in these situations.

Sometimes its almost a whole full time job sorting through prescriptions, reading prescriptions handwritten by doctors, and adhering to medication policies, too. That often falls on the pharmacist. Liasing with doctors regarding dosages of medications, etc…

There is definitely more that people don't see that pharmacists do, but that's all I can think of right now.
I am also, biased, as I work in a pharmacy (in stock management, nothing to do with prescriptions). So I definitely think they are important.
- iridiumstem on 04/08/2023 - 11:07
  
  That's something that I didn't know, so whenever I had to get some benzos it would've been a pharmacist who got involved as well.
  
  I do find that GPs are not always fully up-to-date with their knowledge with types of medications, though I feel like that is more, the GP should probably request inputs from a specialist type of situation.
  
  If the GP is specially interested in certain areas, they seem to have more knowledge, though I feel like that's more experience based (they tried to prescribe something and they found out that certain medications interact in their previous client's case). I had seen my GP look up medication interactions before prescribing all the time.
  - taradavey on 04/08/2023 - 11:25
    
    Well and truly! Benzo's are locked up in a safe, along with the ritalin/dexys, medicinal marajuana, methodone, subuxone, and other fun things! Letting any staff member from a pharmacy loose with this is highly illegal and highly unethical.
    
    Pharmacists are held to a code of conduct and a duty of care. All of this is involved in their training and pharamacist degree. But this is why they are the only ones entrusted with these S8 drugs, because if somebody (profanity) up, they are liable with this duty of care. Somebody has to have liability.
    
    That's correct GPs aren't always up to date, and when they are up to date it's usually with a special interest topic. However - I believe this is no fault of their own. It would be literally impossible to be up to date with every piece of knowledge across every area of medicine. This is another great reason why Psychiatrists exist, to study medicine and psychology, and how pharamcological intervention can effect certain symptoms. And a good reason to find a doctor that has specialties in things you are most commonly needing assistance for - mental health, or skin cancer checks, or female health for example.
    
    Theoretically, every health professional from Physios to General Practitioners, to Psychiatrists, to even ENT specialists, to podiatrists etc etc, should all work in unison for one person to get optimal care for every issue. Theoretically. In practice - who has the money or the time.
    
    I think while Pharmacists job's may seem like they are not-quite-doctors, if you removed them from the equation, it'd be a huge amount of work and knowledge to off-load onto doctors and other care-professionals, which is why they are so important!
    
    Plus - they are a free service to the public. If you needed to book a doctors appointment every time you wanted to check if your heartburn medication shouldn't be taken with nurofen or gastro-stop, you'd be paying for a lot of doctors appointments OR not checking at all.
    I think people don't know how easy it is to effect prescription medication with other things.
    Tumeric, for example, can contraindicate blood pressure medication, iron supplements, among other things.
    There is basic ones people know like paracetamol and blood thinners, but it's very complicated.
    
    Even the reason that all 'dry' cough syrups have been removed from sale and recalled is (As I'm told, I haven't read this research myself) that the ingredient in them interacted with anesthetic during a surgery and a man died as a result.
    
    Lots to think about, too much to add to Doctors already very big workload.

What Is The Point of Pharmacists (Honest Question)

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