Advice/Advise on/from Recruiters

menocheapsk8 on 08/08/2023 - 09:41

Hi All,

It seems like there is some real wisdom amongst the OB and I appreciate everyone's input on the previous topic. I'm looking forward and actively applying for roles. I was hoping to tap this collective wisdom one more time for advice on the most effective strategies for working with recruiters to find new roles. I ask these questions to assist myself in my current situation, but I'm also hoping that asking these questions and making this wisdom public will help the wider community (or at least anyone who reads this post). So thanks to all in advance!

Most of my previous roles have been through direct contact with the company's HR team, whose interests and incentives align primarily with their company. Salary negotiations have required using whatever leverage is available, and is Me vs. The Company. The incentives for recruiters seems to be a little more balanced. I may be incorrect, but it seems like their fee is a percentage of the candidates salary, therefore they're incentivised to negotiate a higher salary (or at least seek a happy medium). My questions are:

  1. What have been peoples experience with salary negotiations through recruiters? Can salary negotiations be optimised through full transparency with the recruiter, or should it remain a normal negotiation?

  2. Is it better to mention the fact that I was made redundant to communicate my need to find a new role quickly, or will this just weaken my negotiating position? This questions applies to full HR/recruitment sector.

Thanks!

Education & Work

Comments

  • Cheaplikethebird on 08/08/2023 - 10:06
    +1

    The incentives for recruiters seems to be a little more balanced. I may be incorrect, but it seems like their fee is a percentage of the candidates salary, therefore they're incentivised to negotiate a higher salary.

    They're bidding for the contract so push too high and it goes to another recruiter. What you're really negotiating is how much of a cut they get to take out of your salary.

    Re the second question, your interview with the recruiter doesn't matter so much IMO, they're just doing the initial vetting before sending you off to interview with the employer.

    • menocheapsk8 on 08/08/2023 - 11:34

      Thanks for your comments.

      Do you know if there are ever 'sole agent' style roles, or are they always open to all recruiters?

      Have you ever not progressed through an initial interview with a recruiter?

      • Cheaplikethebird on 08/08/2023 - 11:38

        Will really depend on if this is a recruiter hiring specialist vs entry-level roles, which type of role are you going for? If you can tell us which you'll get much better advice.

        Nah never not progressed through the initial interview.

        • menocheapsk8 on 08/08/2023 - 11:41
          +1

          Project Manager (Non-civil engineering). 5-10 years experience.

  • Mr Haj on 08/08/2023 - 10:06
    +2

    My understanding is that recruiters will earn a commission based off your starting salary, so it's in their best interest to get you a job with a high paying salary.

    • Bargainitis on 08/08/2023 - 11:19

      this is correct in high paying jobs.

      Its usually 30% off starting base as their commission so ultimately once its ballpark right - they just want to convert the deal obviously.

      • menocheapsk8 on 08/08/2023 - 11:32

        30% of the annual salary figure?

        • Bargainitis on 08/08/2023 - 11:33

          yes in high paying jobs. The recruiters get ~30% of the base salary of the new hire. Thats why companies like to recruit via its network (and sometimes pay a small incentive to their employees for word of mouth).

          • menocheapsk8 on 08/08/2023 - 11:38

            @Bargainitis: Wow……that's significantly more than I was expecting. Assuming a starting salary of $150k-$180k, $45k-$54k is a nice payment for a few weeks work! Compare that against the $1k-$6k I've seen offered as a referral bonus within consultancies, that's a significant saving!

            • Bargainitis on 08/08/2023 - 12:19

              @menocheapsk8: indeed. its a sliding scale though like tax I suspect.

              its probably not 30% of infinity if you know what I mean

      • ozbloke2 on 09/08/2023 - 11:20

        30% would be for very senior, hard to fill roles. Most recruiters filling engineering roles would charge 15-20% of salary package

  • Seraphin7 on 08/08/2023 - 10:29

    I may be incorrect, but it seems like their fee is a percentage of the candidates salary, therefore they're incentivised to negotiate a higher salary (or at least seek a happy medium).

    Yes and no …

    Yes, they often work on a percentage commission, so they get a higher commission the higher your salary is.

    No in that a sale is a sale is a sale and they will make more money from two commissions at 80% of what you might like vs. one commission at 100% of what you might like (and then lose the second one).

    • menocheapsk8 on 08/08/2023 - 11:22

      Thanks for your response. I get your point. I'm looking at the salary negotiation more as a way to prevent getting screwed down, rather than applying excessive pressure upwards.

  • dtc on 08/08/2023 - 10:42

    Use of recruiters is very industry specific - as in, many industries use them or at least recruiters work across many industries, but in some industries they are useful/important and regularly used, in other industries they arent particularly useful.

  • bobbified on 08/08/2023 - 10:55
    +1

    What have been peoples experience with salary negotiations through recruiters?

    I find that recruiters often try to talk candidates away from negotiations because by that stage, an offer usually has already been made (ie, they've pretty much got the commission in the bag). Yes, the commission is better on a higher salary, but it's not worth potentially losing the entire thing if they try push it too hard for that extra little bit. Most recruiters I've dealt with are upfront about the potential salary (before the interview) for the role so if I don't like it, I just go somewhere else.

    Is it better to mention the fact that I was made redundant to communicate my need to find a new role quickly,

    The recruiter is going to ask about your work history. Sometimes they only have one suitable role available so you 'needing' to find a new role isn't going to make a difference in how fast they can find you a role. I often look at it as though the recruiter is 'on my side' because we're both trying to get something out of this, so I'm usually quite upfront with them. How you speak to them depends on your relationship with them. If it's a new recruiter I'm dealing with, I could be a bit more careful in what I say. They will often tell you if there's anything you shouldn't say or anything you should "tone down" when in the interview with the employer.

    • menocheapsk8 on 08/08/2023 - 11:30

      Thanks for your insight. I'll be sure to cover salary expectations during initial discussions. I find that salary expectations can be tricky, particularly considering recent rates of inflation and wage growth (in some sectors at least).

      I get your second point, but just wanted to clarify that I was referring more to how quickly I could start in the new role (i.e. why I'm available to start right away), rather than applying pressure on the recruiter to speed up the process.

      • bobbified on 08/08/2023 - 12:07

        I was referring more to how quickly I could start in the new role (i.e. why I'm available to start right away)

        They usually do try and 'onboard' a new employee asap but it's not always possible because different areas of the business need to do different things such as issuing and signing off on the employment contract, the provisioning of laptop, phones, setting up user accounts, etc. That stuff sometimes takes a while. Not sure whether it's applicable to your industry, but sometimes background checks alone can take a week or two. I would give it 2-3 weeks at a minimum - especially for a larger company that has established procedures where everything has to go through the right channels. For a smaller company, they might be able to do something real quick.

  • tajid on 08/08/2023 - 11:08
    +2

    Honestly if you were made redundant, I'd jump for any good opportunities offered, remuneration wouldn't be my main goal. You could always look for a better role while employed, less pressure.

    • menocheapsk8 on 08/08/2023 - 11:23

      Very true. I'm very much open to all options right now, but I'm also looking to maximise those available options.

  • newjerseydamo on 08/08/2023 - 12:11
    +2

    Just as an FYI, it's "advice".

    • bobbified on 08/08/2023 - 12:59

      It could also be "Advise on recruiters"

      • newjerseydamo on 08/08/2023 - 13:23
        +1

        Not in the context of the questions they're raising. The OP also did this on their other post about being made redundant.

        • menocheapsk8 on 09/08/2023 - 08:40

          I didn't have the resolve to actually use the sacred misspelling!

    • menocheapsk8 on 08/08/2023 - 13:00
      +1

      Depends on the context, but thanks for the advise.

  • Paul Atreides on 08/08/2023 - 14:15
    +1

    My 2c.

    1. If the recruiter has a role in mind, usually all they want to know is that whether your salary expectations are within their clients budget (or if it's a tad outside, that there's a strong rationale for the extra red tape in asking for approvals on the client side). As you said, if you are asking under market, a good recruiter will ask for more. I've had a recruiter in the past get me an extra $80/day from what I originally said I wanted.

    2. Based on the recruiters I've had in the past, I'd be more on the open side about my situation. In the end, they are putting you forward for consideration by the client, so whatever information you give them, they'll pass onto the client if they think it's relevant. This the something the company you may be put forward for will discover during the interview process anyway.

    • menocheapsk8 on 09/08/2023 - 09:32

      Thanks for your 2c, I appreciate your insights.

  • djsweet on 08/08/2023 - 14:27
    +1

    Good job hedging your bets on the correct Ozb grammar. A+

    • menocheapsk8 on 09/08/2023 - 08:52

      I'm still losing sleep at night over having to make that choice…

  • Drakesy on 08/08/2023 - 15:15
    +10

    If someone removed all recruiters tomorrow i don't think anyone would notice.

    Literally scum of the employment world.
    My one was taking $20k a year from my previous employer just for having a 5 minute conversation with me and putting my resume forward.
    She'd filled the entire government team of 5 so ~$100k a year retainer for putting people forward for roles.

    And if i chose to work for them permanently it was another 1 off $20k finders fee.
    Absolute daylight robbery.

    • bobbified on 08/08/2023 - 18:08
      +2

      I think if you see the number and quality of some of the applicants for certain roles, you'll see how much time the company saves by using recruiters as 'filters'. The fee does seem quite high, but they also have to go in search of the vacancies in the first place. Most companies only advertise through a limited number of recruiters that have to have been pre-approved. There's a lot of competition and not that easy to place someone.

      I can honestly say that, without recruiters, I'd have great difficulty finding the jobs that I'm in. Every time I've tried applying directly, I simply get a rejection email (if I'm lulcky) after a few days. Every job I've applied for through a recruiter where I've scored an interview, I've also had an offer.

      • menocheapsk8 on 09/08/2023 - 08:50

        Yeah, I think the filter analogy is a good one. I guess the income is very dependent on the economic climate and would be very famine or feast. I still prefer them to the economic bloat of an REA!

    • menocheapsk8 on 09/08/2023 - 08:46

      Those are some impressive terms. I tip my hat to her. She works smart, not hard. Plus you got the job!

  • gyrex on 09/08/2023 - 09:16

    Were you the person who posted the other day about being made redundant? Before looking for any work, I'd spend some of my free time educating myself on nouns, verbs and adjectives and the difference between *advice and advise. Advice is a noun and advise is a verb.

    • menocheapsk8 on 09/08/2023 - 09:33

      You're a…..verb

      • gyrex on 09/08/2023 - 09:36

        I'm a noun and so are you. Nouns are people, places or things. Advice is a thing, therefore it's a noun. Verbs are doing or action words.

  • tabitha731 on 09/08/2023 - 11:12

    I have been a contractor for many years.. and the worst part of contracting is dealing with recruiters… so to avoid having to deal with these sorts ( lower on the totem pole than car salesmen in my books) i apply directly to companies with the job vacancies, thru their career websites or from what i learn thru networking. i will by-pass recruiters at all costs.. they have zero interest in your career path, they're looking forward to their commission. most recruiters you will find have absolutely no background education in HR, recruitement or anything relevant.. just high school drop outs ho were lured into the job with promises of big commission. I would never leave the choice of my livelihood depend on the greed of some twenty-something inexperienced douche. especially if they're still living at home with mummy & daddy

    • tajid on 09/08/2023 - 13:00

      Each to their own I suppose, many roles are not advertised online but through recruiters, if we skip them altogether, just means less pool of jobs to choose from.

  • AsahiConnect on 29/08/2023 - 19:04

    I'm in the Supply Chain industry and i've dealt with many…. recruiters throughout switching roles.

    I've had bad experiences and good experiences, but when it comes to Salary i've always found that going through recruiters, i was offered approx. 10% more base salary (compared to what was being advertised as the average rate) and often before I even got to the first interview.

    I've not been made redundent ever, so each time i've switched roles it was planned well in advance and i've found that with patience and building a relationship with recruiters, I also got a chance to apply for better title roles, some which required more experience and were beyond the skillset I had at the time, so lots of potential there too if you want growth. Linkedin is a good tool.
    Hope you find what you're looking for. GL

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