Issues With New Fence

jazzilla on 18/08/2023 - 10:08

Hello,

We live in Victoria and are building in a new estate.

Our neighbour behind us put up a fence and are now wanting us to pay our half.

Firstly, the neighbour did not seek our approval before getting the fence built. We received a letter in the mail from them after it was built.

After inspecting the fence, we found it to be of poor quality and didn't feel comfortable paying until it was resolved.

The pictures below show how a lot of the timber isn't straight, nails hanging out and things aren't even.

Should we just suck it up, pay for the fence and be left with the poor craftmanship or not pay until the fencers return to fix the fence?

Or would we find this is what we're stuck with?

What are your thoughts on the quality?

https://imgur.com/a/SjF38qX

https://imgur.com/a/m50nTel

https://imgur.com/a/8ESmciR

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Xistn on 18/08/2023 - 10:12
    +42

    How many beers/meth was this guy on, building that.

  • Wiadro on 18/08/2023 - 10:13
    +10

    did a blind fence builder build it?

  • thrillho on 18/08/2023 - 10:17
    +17

    Hold firm on that one - yeesh that's shocking. What are they asking?

    • jazzilla on 18/08/2023 - 10:27
      +1

      Approx $470.

      • onetwothreefour on 18/08/2023 - 11:06
        +14

        For how many metres? $940 for a fence seems very cheap.

        • lachhelix on 18/08/2023 - 11:31
          +74

          That's exactly the quality of fence I'd be expecting for $940 tbh

          • onetwothreefour on 18/08/2023 - 11:32
            +4

            @lachhelix: yep but does depend on the length, $940 sounds like the cost of the timber only.

            • lachhelix on 18/08/2023 - 11:33
              +6

              @onetwothreefour: Would be good if we could get a copy of the invoice figures! Either way, the fence sucks 😂

          • bmxr on 18/08/2023 - 18:43
            +16

            @lachhelix:

            That's exactly the quality of fence I'd be expecting for $940 tbh

            I'm going to go even further and say it's a bargain for $940! At least it's standing up and a couple of coats of monument grey or something and you won't even notice the dodgy geometry.

            Shame that the posts and pillars are all facing the OP and not the other way. I bet the neighbour wouldn't be happy if this was their side of the fence.

            Don't pay OP!

      • CalmLemons on 20/08/2023 - 12:42
        +11

        If thats $940 for 15m that's a super bargain. Just pay it and be done with it.

        It's a fence, regardless, it's going to need to be replaced in 10 years time anyway.

        • Korban Dallas on 20/08/2023 - 16:53
          +4

          I work for a building company. The going rate is $103 per m ex gst.

          All timber fences suck. Will fall apart in 7 years if it doesn't get painted.

          What are you expecting. High quality straight timber?

          • SpendLess on 21/08/2023 - 09:18

            @Korban Dallas: can you share your companies details so people can avoid them
            My timber fence non painted is still going strong after 15yrs

            • Korban Dallas on 21/08/2023 - 17:39

              @SpendLess: 15 years that's great. Was it made from hardwood or pine? So I work for a builder and fencing is subcontracted

              • SpendLess on 22/08/2023 - 09:11

                @Korban Dallas: Cyrpus pine posts.
                both the back and one side were done atleast 15yrs back soon after we moved in which is coming 20yrs now
                we did another side and thats coming up 10yrs. Cyprus pine posts as well and bit over 2m high.

            • lgacb08 on 21/08/2023 - 23:03

              @SpendLess: The post is redgum so should be ok but the pine horizontal rail will give way soon, this fence is lucky to last 10 years.

          • Bii on 21/08/2023 - 23:51

            @Korban Dallas: But how repainting helps from falling apart? I feel like miss something

      • Rear CreviceEruption on 21/08/2023 - 06:59

        If that's the price they must have done it themselves. That's about how much the timber/nails/concrete would cost.

    • HeWhoKnows on 21/08/2023 - 20:32
      -4

      OP is under no legal obligation to contribute.
      It was the neighbour's decision to build the fence without any prior agreement, discussion or arrangements.
      Hence the neigbour pays for it 100%.

      In fact OP could demand that the neighbour removes the fence to put a different spin on the matter.

      Meanwhile Ignore the letter and any other requests for payments

      As for OPs complaints about quality…
      Obviously OP has never put up a timber fence or worked with timber.
      Definitely an office worker using a PC where everything comes together with perfection.
      JUDGES DECISION:
      OPs complaints are totally unfounded.

      Dont push it OP someone will push your head into the fence mate.

      • SBOB on 22/08/2023 - 07:07
        +2

        As for OPs complaints about quality…
        Obviously OP has never put up a timber fence or worked with timber.

        Well, guess we found the fence "builder" :)

  • Fredfloresjr on 18/08/2023 - 10:20
    +12

    I personally would not bother paying. But different story is he claims he's a bikie.

    • smartazz104 on 20/08/2023 - 10:41
      +1

      Looks like he built the fence himself, I wouldn’t worry even if he was a genuine bikie.

      • bohn on 20/08/2023 - 22:13

        Maybe only worry if he's a 1%er

  • Muzeeb on 18/08/2023 - 10:22
    +16

    Must have left the string line at home that day.

    • zubzub on 21/08/2023 - 04:47

      Looks like some lines weren’t left at home. sniff

  • onetwothreefour on 18/08/2023 - 10:22
    +15

    Did they actually use a fence builder or did they DIY it?

    • jazzilla on 18/08/2023 - 10:26
      +6

      The invoice they sent is from a fencing company.

      • 87percent on 18/08/2023 - 10:33
        +23

        What’s the bet the owner of the house is buddies with the fencing company

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 18/08/2023 - 10:38
        +27

        Just fyi invoices are easy to edit with Adobe acrobat - matches font and everything

      • drfuzzy on 19/08/2023 - 05:10
        +17

        Call the fencing company and ask them to confirm it is their invoice.

      • smartazz104 on 20/08/2023 - 10:47
        +3

        Does it have an ABN?

  • Ocker on 18/08/2023 - 10:31
    +8

    Ask your local council what the rules are

  • Shibuya on 18/08/2023 - 10:36
    +9

    Oh dear… another quality tradie

  • sumyungguy on 18/08/2023 - 10:39
    +13

    Seems you're on the right side of a pending dispute so you'll be able to leverage a reduced contribution. Dispute Settlement Centre of Victoria (DSCV) is a free service that parties can use to help resolve fencing disputes.

  • Austin 316 on 18/08/2023 - 10:48
    +41

    According to the law in VIC, they need to send you a "Notice to build fence (or something similar)" via registered post, and you are supposed to sign when you receive that letter. If that's not what happened, legally they can't force anything and you are not obliged to pay any money.

    On saying that, considering they are going to be your neighbors, I would say try and talk and resolve this issue as best as you can. It's no fun living around if neighbors don't get along.

    • MrFrugalSpend on 20/08/2023 - 10:04
      +4

      ^^^ This
      Two things to consider with neighbourhood disputes:
      1. What you legally can get away with - they should have sent you notice etc, and maybe check what the estate covenants/purchase contract says (and I would never have agreed to accept that crap); but…
      2. The fact you have to live next to them.

      It's not great, quality is missing from a lot of trades with the shortages these days. They are just getting to the next job to make hay whilst the sun shines and will be busy even if their workmanship is crap. It seems cheap though, without knowing the length. It probably works as a fence for now and without a wider angle, we don't know if the bottom rail is not angled like that to match the surface gradient. However a dodgy pine fence like that probably won't last very long if OP are planning being there for 20 years.

      However given the low cost, I'd probably be inclined to tidy up those nails myself, pay something, and just stick some screening over it or hedge planting in front of it and move on.

    • Willy Beamish on 21/08/2023 - 11:06

      Nah, not his issue. Clearly neighbors don't care if they go off and do it themselves without any consultation, milking money out of OP won't change anything.

      (profanity) em, don't pay a cent unless legally required.

  • dogboy on 18/08/2023 - 10:53
    +2

    Omg that is pretty bad.

  • AngoraFish on 18/08/2023 - 10:58
    +3

    It's literally the cheapest fence you can buy. The installers would have thrown it together in a morning. Quality varies significantly, but ultimately you get what you pay for and they didn't charge much.

    Despite the assumption of other commenters above, arrangements in new estates are very different from normal shared fencing situations. These are typically an obligation you agreed to in your contract of sale with the developer and a permit obligation consistent with the urban design guidelines for that estate. Normal shared fencing rules largely won't apply.

    Personally, I think you'll be out of luck disputing this. If you want something less shitty then that's on you to pay for and/or to organise/rectify yourself.

    • ihbh on 18/08/2023 - 12:49
      +1

      Minimum 2 mornings. Need to let concrete the posts stand in set first.

      • AngoraFish on 18/08/2023 - 18:58
        +15

        My experience of several paling fence replacements suggests nothing of the sort. They fencers have always been gone by lunchtime, never to return. A bag of rapid-set into the hole is more than enough to allow them to keep working.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 18/08/2023 - 22:38
      +5

      Despite the assumption of other commenters above, arrangements in new estates are very different from normal shared fencing situations. These are typically an obligation you agreed to in your contract of sale with the developer and a permit obligation consistent with the urban design guidelines for that estate. Normal shared fencing rules largely won't apply.

      ^ This. OP needs to check this immediately.

    • trapper on 19/08/2023 - 11:39

      Quality varies significantly, but ultimately you get what you pay for and they didn't charge much.

      There is no excuse for it being visibly out of level though.

  • Iwantthebestprice on 18/08/2023 - 11:02
    +13

    God, if this is how tradies build a fence imagine a brand new house..

    • TuneTown on 19/08/2023 - 12:21
      +1

      Most 'fencers' don't have a trade qualification at all and workers such as this would often never branch into building a house. If you want a decent quality fence hire a qualified carpenter

    • Greihawk on 20/08/2023 - 17:56
      +1

      Calling most fence builders "tradies" is the same as calling the guy from 1st level Tech Support, a Software Engineer.

  • Steven135 on 18/08/2023 - 11:19
    +3

    looks fine to me

  • KaTst3R on 18/08/2023 - 11:33
    +7

    The quality of the wood looks like it will rot in a few years.

    • Serapis on 20/08/2023 - 13:20
      +1

      Almost looks like the wood they use for pallets…

  • Porker on 18/08/2023 - 11:37
    +45

    Putting aside the quality of the fence (which is bad), are you even sure the fence is in the correct location?

    The bigger issue is adverse possession of your property. If the neighbour hasn't checked with you for sharing the cost, I wouldn't put it past them to steal some of your land.

    • Assburg on 19/08/2023 - 14:12
      +7

      This is the most important post here OP, quietly do some investigating.

      If you got more land, just agree to pay half and in 15 years you've expanded your estate.

  • SBOB on 18/08/2023 - 12:21
    +24

    nice of the neighbor to ensure that high quality workmanship was on your side of the fence.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2023 - 12:26
      +8

      lol - The neighbours probably don't even realise the shoddy workmanship because it looks great from their side. All the OP has to do is bring it to their attention to get it torn down & a proper one built.

      • SBOB on 18/08/2023 - 12:34
        +6

        Yep, and expecting to pay half when one side is panelling and the other has the posts and beams exposed is a little harsh also.

        • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2023 - 12:57
          +1

          A relative had this issue when building a new wooden fence years ago. There is an alternating palings design that is uniform on both sides & actually looks quite nice too.

        • mapax on 18/08/2023 - 13:56
          +2

          The side with posts and beams is superior though.

          • Euphemistic on 19/08/2023 - 17:20
            +1

            @mapax: Allows you to easily see over the other side.

            • jazzilla on 19/08/2023 - 17:39
              +2

              @Euphemistic: Im 6'6 so this isn't an issue for me haha.

              • MrPants on 19/08/2023 - 17:51
                +1

                @jazzilla:

                Im 6'6 so this isn't an issue for me haha.

                Is that 2 measurements or 1… ( Í¡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Nitrollparty on 18/08/2023 - 12:25

    here in south aus, when i built in a new estate, i sent the invoices to the council and then the council paid me once the neighbours houses went up, i find it weird that you guys need to do the chasing for money for fences

    • Mr Random on 19/08/2023 - 00:55

      Here in Victoria, cuncils are kind enough to offer us a maximum of $1 of the cost of fences. Contracts you sign with the developer make mention of this, and it is up to you to negotiate to get the developer to foot the bill.
      Otherwise if someone else owns the land, it’s on them to pay their half.

  • skid on 18/08/2023 - 12:44
    +2

    I sure af wouldn't give them a cent. Ignore them.

    Because I'm sure those gaps are for thermal expansion
    /s

  • bargainy on 18/08/2023 - 12:44
    +1

    Timber posts set in the ground? Hmm

  • stuffandthat on 18/08/2023 - 12:47
    +3

    I wouldn't pay a cent.

  • ihbh on 18/08/2023 - 13:01
    +3

    To provide more context, how long is the fence? Take a photo standing back showing all of the fence.

    We just had a 25m fence done with retaining wall and return and old fence removed recently. Total cost was $4,340 and took 3.5 days by one guy (owner of business). It was a great job, but next door neighbour didn't like it as much because I did all the interacting with the fencing guy and tried to explain as much to the neighbour as possible, but they were only concerned with asthetics and didn't go out to have a look while it was being installed to manage their expectations. Because I was dealing with the fencing guy, naturally he tweaked it to be a bit better for us and the quote I chose gave us the best structural integrity, rather than the cheapest price. The neighbor is selling and would have taken a cheaper quote and not given a damn about medium-long term issue. Regardless, the quotes I got were far cheaper than the neighbours. It might seem a lot, but we are in an affluent area where the population don't hesitate to pay more, which makes it hard to get a low price.

  • pharkurnell on 18/08/2023 - 14:43
    +1

    evidence that it doesnt pay to go with the cheapest quote…

  • Brick Tamland on 18/08/2023 - 15:53
    +5

    Legally they cant force you to pay because they didnt send you a fencing notice before erecting it. The quality of the fence while not great isn't really a factor in disputing the cost. You may annoy your neighbours if you dont pay but if thats not a concern then dont pay!!

    I had a similar situation where the builder of my neighbours house sent me the invoice for half the fence without consulting me or providing a notice, I just ignored it.

  • skinner on 18/08/2023 - 15:55
    +6

    Probably a good idea to check if the fence even fits with the covenants/requirements for the estate. Here in QLD new estates usually ask for "good neighbour" fencing, not whatever that is supposed to be so you might find you have to replace it anyway.

    • stringbean402 on 19/08/2023 - 10:44
      +4

      That would likely meet the requirements.

      Beside the rails being crooked it actually looks a like a decent fence. And if it’s 10 plus meters the price is insanely good.

      This is what I would do.

      Have a chat with the neighbour and let them know your concerns. Say if you want me to pay then the fence will basically have to be re-done. That will never happen as the fencer will write off the job before they come and re-do it. The time and effort to pull it apart and re-do it far exceeds the difficulty of building a fence from scratch. It’s going to cost both of you much much more than the original job cost.

      Then I would explain we can leave the fence standing but I am going to put the $450 I was going to pay towards planking my side of the fence to hide the crooked rails.

      Then hire a nail gun from Kennards or Bunnings, get a stack of palings delivered and you’ll be done in a couple of hours and then you’ll have a perfectly normal looking fence. In fact you have the ‘good side’ of the fence.

      It planked the gaps on my ‘good neighbour’ fence myself when we built. It is a super simple job.

      I also suggest painting it as treated pine discolours quickly and looks crappy after about 6 months.

      While I agree it looks terrible and I couldn’t stand to look at it every day either this is the path of least resistance to achieve a good outcome.

      It’s not worth starting a war and getting off on a bad foot with your neighbours over $500.

      Good relationships with your neighbours are far more important than this minor problem and small amount of money involved.

  • ihbh on 18/08/2023 - 16:41
    -2

    or not pay until the fencers return to fix the fence

    No one is coming back to fix that. Just pay your neighbour your half.

    Did you not know a fence was going up, or were you hoping to get a free half?

    The fence looks much better on your neighbour's side because he's got the palings.

    It's not easy to get a smooth line on the rail side because the land slopes from one side to the other and is not uniform.

    1st pic not sure if you are completely perpendicular to the fence. You also have one layer of sleepers as a retaining wall, but probably need more on your side.

    2nd pic - get a hammer and hammer in any nails you aren't happy with.

    3rd pic the second rail is a bit thinner than the first where they meet. You can sue the timber wholesaler for not selling uniform timber to the fencing guy, but don't expect him to plane it so they are exactly the same.

    • jazzilla on 18/08/2023 - 17:42
      +2

      We did not receive any notification from this neighbour. Other neighbours reached out to the council to get current home address to dicuss a quote. This neighbour got the fence built and then sent me the quote.

      • stringbean402 on 21/08/2023 - 05:59
        +1

        If this is a new estate you will not be sent fencing notices. Have read if your land contract, it will have relating clauses.

        They do this so builders don't have to waste time fluffing around to get the fences completed.

    • trapper on 19/08/2023 - 11:43

      It's not easy to get a smooth line on the rail side because the land slopes from one side to the other and is not uniform.

      The rails should be parallel though, it looks ridiculously shoddy in the photos.

      • ihbh on 19/08/2023 - 13:22

        Yeah, because they are fitting it to the precut notch on the posts.

  • shangoz on 18/08/2023 - 16:51

    Quality is not good but it can last a few years, but price is very good indeed, looks like only charge the material only, to keep the neighbours comfortable, can tell the concern then paid a few days later just show you're not very happy.

  • duluxe2000 on 18/08/2023 - 17:56
    +1

    How long is the fence? In Sydney they charge 100$ per meter for Colorbond fence. If you pay only 1k for 20m of fence the price is really good. I would thank the neighbor

    • AustriaBargain on 19/08/2023 - 00:06
      +2

      $100 a meter for colourbond would be worth it compared to this side of that fence.

  • brendanm on 18/08/2023 - 17:57
    +1

    It's got a certain rustic charm

    • [Deactivated] on 19/08/2023 - 12:23
      +1

      Definite elements of 'dodgy chic'

  • NevC on 18/08/2023 - 18:55
    +3

    The fence is built like hundreds I have seen. It's what you get these days, unless you want to pay thousands for good timber.

    • apu on 19/08/2023 - 11:21

      Agree with this. Doesn’t look that bad for a cheapish fence. It’s not a deck or house frame. Timber will naturally warp over time with the sun

  • jazzilla on 18/08/2023 - 19:17
    +10

    Thank you for everyones comments. I called some local highly reveiwed fencers in my area and they commented that yes, its rough but nothing can really be done about it.

    I'll be paying my neighbour my share as I also dont want to get off on to a bad start.

    • Eeples on 18/08/2023 - 22:41
      +7

      I think you should probably pay $470 as that is cheap. But I think you need ask him for a receipt that you paid him. Like on a piece of paper.

      I actually think you should pay $400 as you have the bad side of the fence (ie. you can see the horizontal ones; just proving I am not in the biz).

      Tell him… 'I'm happy to pay $400 because I have the bad side but I would like a receipt on my payment, thanks"

      imo.

      • ihbh on 19/08/2023 - 13:25

        No one pulls that sh*t.

        Neighbour didnt know quality of rail side beforehand. Op can hang pots, etc on rails so not necessarily a negative.

        He did the work to get quotes, to boot.

        • us3rnam3tak3n on 20/08/2023 - 11:02
          +3

          No one pulls that sh*t.

          How about the audacity of having a piece of sh*t fence built, without consultation, then expecting your neighbour to go halves, and giving them the uglier side of it to boot?

          • ihbh on 20/08/2023 - 11:42

            @us3rnam3tak3n:

            How about the audacity of having a piece of sh*t fence built

            No reasonable person deliberately has a sh*t fence built. Sometimes that's how it turns out, sometimes it's the uneveness of the land, combo etc.

            And this is not a sh*t fence by any means.

            If you bother getting quotes, which side would you take?

            • Eeples on 20/08/2023 - 19:02
              +1

              @ihbh: You would get a fence built without consulting the neighbour?

              Really?

            • GrueHunter on 21/08/2023 - 18:46

              @ihbh: So how long did it take you to build

            • johnno07 on 22/08/2023 - 07:54

              @ihbh: If you get a quote for less than $1000 to build a 15m fence, you ought to have known that it is going to be of rough quality. In saying that its actually way better than I would have expected for that price. OP should just pay the half and move on. When they redo it in a few years they can be in charge and built a nice one.

              • ihbh on 22/08/2023 - 08:15

                @johnno07: I agree. That's what I've tried to say in all my comments. E.g. below:

                What if OP had had gotten the quote and it turned out to be that quality for the price he paid? He's avoided saying how long the fence is so it might be very low. It's unrealistic to expect caviar when you're paying potato prices. Obviously OP can say he'd pay more, etc., to get a better fence, but unless you sight a couple of fences by the fencer, it's much easier said with hindsight.

    • greater mimic on 19/08/2023 - 07:36
      +2

      At least it's not expensive and it doesn't seem like he's trying to rip you off. Being on bad terms with neighbours can be a pain

    • pencilhead on 19/08/2023 - 13:43
      +3

      When I had my fence redone, the fencer provided the receipt not the neighbour.
      I paid the fencer - not the neighbor.
      Ring the fencer and get receipts.
      I'd be telling him, if it happens again without your approval - you won't be paying.

  • yoho on 18/08/2023 - 22:37
    -1

    good call, put a few trees in front, and it will all be a distant memory.

  • AustriaBargain on 19/08/2023 - 00:05
    +1

    Your neighbour is taking you for a ride. Build a shoddy fence without asking you, give you the ass end of the fence lowering your property value unless you pay again to cover it up. For the exact same price you could have built the fence first, gave them the ass end of it, and demanded they pay half.

  • garetz on 19/08/2023 - 00:56

    Contact the fencing company and ask for an invoice, then at least you can take them to vcat for shoddy workmanship.

  • Roulette on 19/08/2023 - 01:09
    -1

    I wouldn't pay fking cent. Your neighbors are dodgy, entitled bastards. They'll be sending you their household bills next.

  • Sinnerator on 19/08/2023 - 08:33

    for that price, just put some TLC on your side of the fence and BARGAIN
    edit: but just be aware that that $470 will go straight to this meth account

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