Taking Mobile Phone off Teen

sardines on 21/08/2023 - 12:00
Last edited 28/08/2023 - 09:13 by 2 other users

Hi all, uncertain where to place this.

My teenage daughter is addicted to her phone and bloody TikTok. Its effecting her school attendance where attendance support officers are involved. She said she has anxiety and we have gone to psychiatrists, therapists, paediatrician specialists but none of the advice is taken as she is glued to the phone (i.e. 30 minutes of exercise a day, positive reinforcement).

When you tell her to get up in the morning its basically the middle finger and not a care in the world. When she is at school she does shake and cry sometimes and there is anxiety but it's magnified by phone addiction - To a young brain, why not get the dopamine hits rather than sit in a class.

I am thinking of buying a basic flip phone, replacing the sim from her iPhone at night to break that addiction — will be for 5 weeks till she can demonstrate she can at least get up in time for school and do some work rather than lay in bed. after 5 weeks if all goes well, return phone and keep tight controls on it.

I know this will cause tremendous amount of rage but if she goes the way she is, her future will be (profanity).

Has anyone gone through this or offer advice of school refusal and phone addiction/anxiety?

Thanks!

Edit: After daughter fighting and saying how unfair it is to take her main communication with friends - that how can we be so cold and heartless to do such a thing, we negotiated to put on strict restrictions on her phone (iphone parental controls/time limit). Will see how it goes - it goes without saying that i am seen as the worst parent and she is getting condolences from extended family.
Thank you everyone for your advice and guidance. I hope other parents and teens survive todays society and vested interests.

Mobile

Comments

  • barge-in hunter on 21/08/2023 - 20:15
    +6

    Yes, rebellious teen. Yes, Covid screwed up socialisation. Yes, lock down her access. Yes, kids have always been tough…

    But.

    It should not be ok for tech companies to deliberately produce highly addictive products that cause significant mental harm to both children and adults - without so much as a scrap of meaningful regulation.

    Almost every other industry that has the potential to cause this much genuine pain and suffering has legislative guidelines - just look at tobacco, drugs, gambling etc.

    How the hell are everyday parents supposed raise happy and health families when multi billion dollar advertising companies are indoctrinating and manipulating our kids, from the moment they get a device of their own? There’s just no beating them right now

    Here’s some light reading for anyone interested
    Facebook files - Wall Street Journal expose
    Social media is deliberately designed to be addictive - 2018
    Facebook Knows Instagram Is Toxic for Teen Girls, Company Documents Show - 2021

  • Benoffie on 21/08/2023 - 20:24
    +21

    Just done the same with a 13 yr old. No tech, cold turkey. Earns access on weekends after ticking all boxes (attendance, attitude, hygiene, homework, chores, sports etc).

    You will notice a change within a fortnight. 100% worth it.

    Good luck!

    • sardines on 22/08/2023 - 07:59

      Thanks - how did your child react? Did you just do it or have a discussion first?

      • skillet on 22/08/2023 - 10:25
        +2

        How would you feel if you have your precious phone suddenly get confiscated without any reason?

        Tell your 13 yr old child, what's going on, why are you doing it, and what's your expectation. Keep it real short and on point because they had too much shorts and tiktok they can't concentrate for more than 3 minutes of your yapping. In a separate session, you also need to remind them what they need to be doing at this age. Give her a few options to do with life if she doesn't want to continue school.

        Do inform but don't do any discussion because tiktok addicts only receives and quickly forget.

      • Benoffie on 22/08/2023 - 13:52
        +4

        Conversation first.

        Why the behaviours arent working, what has been tried, what i happening now, what it will look like etc.

        They knew this was the final straw. It didnt come as a surprise.

        Tough first week. Second, actual face to face conversations!

        • sardines on 22/08/2023 - 14:45
          +3

          thank you, gives me hope. Will discuss and offer two options, allow us to put on harsh restrictions on phone or flip phone. Daughter knows this is an issue and source of constant conflict - and the huge impact on her life. I can see daughter regurgitating crap extended family members say to her behind backs to me but will remain calm and stay on topic

    • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 01:28

      On one hand this sounds great…

      On the other hand, that sounds somewhat like your kid is being still quite seriously 'managed'.
      Yup, kids 13, and pretty much all of the kids probably need exactly this.
      But what adjustments will come in between that, so you don't end up with an 18 year old that potentially starts to realise they've spent most of their life so far 'doing what they are told'?
      How do you plan on allowing the space for them to create an independent sense of self that isn't based around being a child meeting your expectations? Because eventually they'll realise they 'don't have to listen to you' - perhaps straight up 'rebelling' - or…do they become co-dependent, needing someone to tell them what to do, who to be?

      I guess that's what the weekends for.
      And if they use their formative years to actually form themselves…well maybe they'll tell you about 5 years out of high school.

  • msmhw on 21/08/2023 - 21:30

    I think it will work if you keep her occupied by a hobby or some responsibilities.
    May be buying her a pet? Or physical activities? Learning some skills will shift her brain to something else.

  • Empharand on 21/08/2023 - 21:56
    +1

    Bikies

    • JIMB0 on 22/08/2023 - 08:36
      +1

      BMXies

  • jrvb42 on 22/08/2023 - 09:10

    Teenage covers a huge range of developmental years. Is she 13? 17? I feel this will really influence the advice you get, as well as your options.
    Are you solo parenting or are there two of you who can help each other?

  • lew380 on 22/08/2023 - 09:17
    +1

    Thanks for sharing, sounds like the best advice is for us to learn from your mistakes, and start off kids with a very trimmed down phone. Seems like you have had some good advice so far but a battle will ensue. Hope you win!

  • ramshead on 22/08/2023 - 09:24
    +2

    You mentioned attendance support personnel. Did they formulate a plan with you and your daughter?
    You could try cold turkey but it's a risky strategy at this stage. If your daughter is willing to discuss the issue with a specialist, then with their help, all involved could formulate a plan which has a chance of succeeding. Some of the good technical ideas previously suggested could be put on the table along with rewards for reaching milestones of the plan.
    As the issue has become quite serious, qualified third party intervention may be required.
    I wish you luck .

    • sardines on 22/08/2023 - 12:57

      Yes, the education department, school councollor and an independent support group all gave me different advice. education department said just restrict phone use during school hours while not in school but dont ban it. independent support group who deals with these sorts of issues said not to push too much as it will encourage already troubled teen to rebell further. Talking to other parents (and seems to be the consensus is to either put in phone restrictions or replace with flip phone).

  • larndis on 22/08/2023 - 09:30
    +2

    First, ignore all the idiots that have never parented a teen (or likely any children) that are 1000% sure their parenting would have avoided this issue.

    When I had similar issues when my eldest was adjusting to high school, we replaced the iphone with an android with google family limits. This made the biggest difference. I'm sure like anything else there are ways around google family but she doesn't seem to try. She has also been seeing a psychologist.

    There have been a LOT of complaints and arguments about wanting the iphone back, she has never really been one to accept 'no' for an answer. We've tried the iphone once at the start of year 8 and things went downhill again quickly, so we'll be sticking with the android for now.

    I can't really say if the difference is more than just the google family limits, but all I know is that her mental health plummets when she has an iphone. We tried screentime first with no luck.

    Good luck! It's a bloody tough ride, for them and us. You know your kid best, do what you think is right for her.

    • Odin on 22/08/2023 - 10:07
      +1

      What's the difference? Isn't android way more open than iPhone? Aren't all the apps the same?

      • larndis on 22/08/2023 - 11:15
        +1

        For us the main apparent difference is that, as android users, her father and I can control the limits from our phones. This is not possible with screentime, there may be third party apps that can do it.

        As I said, I'm not sure if there are other differences in how she uses the iphone that I can't observe. All I know is that the two periods in which she had the iphone were the two periods in which her mental health was the worst. I'm not willing to risk it again.

        • Odin on 22/08/2023 - 11:33

          Sorry I'm not familiar with this

          So when you say you control the limits, what exactly are you controlling?

          • larndis on 22/08/2023 - 16:54
            +1

            @Odin: From my phone I can set a total daily time limit, as well as limits for individual apps, lock the whole phone, see any new apps she installs, monitor her usage, etc

            • juki on 22/08/2023 - 19:56

              @larndis: how do you do this ? can someone who isnt a techie do this ?

              • larndis on 22/08/2023 - 20:20
                +2

                @juki: Yep, the app is called google family link. I think my technologically challenged hubby set ours up so it can't be too hard. Certainly monitoring and changing the limits is very straightforward.

                • juki on 22/08/2023 - 20:59
                  +1

                  @larndis: if only my challenge was only technological…but i'll give it a go

    • sardines on 22/08/2023 - 13:05
      +2

      Thank you — Before kids, i was the same, never happen to my kids. Played games, tried to encourage reading and won awards for public speaking in primary school. Then daughter just refused to goto school, massive anxiety (there are historical issues that may have contributed to this) and then phone addiction to deal with everyday life. Didnt help that extended family was bitching about parents to our daughter behind backs and generally being shitty role models.
      I am not going to go nuclear but have a serious talk that she has an option of putting in parental limits or replace with flip phone- i can forsee her regurgitating crap extended family is spewing but will just keep focus on phone and not take the insults personally and take it out on a punching bag later :)

  • pcb7 on 22/08/2023 - 09:56
    +5

    Almost everyone here is saying to remove or change your daughters phone. I experienced a period in my life where anxiety took grip for months. The phone was a way to keep the feeling of doom at bay. However the best advice to you from me is based on my experience. I pushed through and read books and online articles around rewiring the brain / neuroplasticity. In order to break an addiction and resurface from the depths of anxiety, you must find another interest to be involved in. How about having a chat to your daughter and let her know you care and want to spend more time with her. Just listen and don’t be judgemental. Take her out more often - not to the movies, but to places where you can just sit or enjoy eg a drive to a place to have brunch or a walk in the park. Let her have her phone if she needs to look but also you need to say to her that it’s fine if she uses her phone but she also needs to be aware and give you and her time to talk and just appreciate the surroundings. Do this more often and also in your home. Include her in what you do. When you see her going back to the phone, snap in and ask what’s on the phone and try to be interested. What your then doing is to help her be present - to be aware of what she is looking at and to be aware that she is with you as well. As you do this, her proportion of time spent on other things will increase and her phone addiction will decrease - because her anxiety should become more manageable and hopefully get to where I am now where anxiety is as normal as most people - just another thing we all deal with like bills and fun. Remember, the phone is the symptom not the cause. The anxiety is a symptom not the cause. Work on helping your daughter be present and be kind gentle patient and most of all - be a friend more and less the parent. You’ll find that all she needs is a good friend to help her refocus onto other things that interest her.

    • Protractor on 22/08/2023 - 11:24
      +1

      NATURE

    • Gnostikos on 22/08/2023 - 12:24
      +8

      Remember, the phone is the symptom not the cause. The anxiety is a symptom not the cause.

      +1

      Everyone seems to be myopically focused on the phone as the cause of all evils in adolescents while completely ignoring the anxiety issue and underlying mental health factors. That's just a completely lazy, armchair quarterback cop-out like previous generations' attempts at blaming some/all of society's ills related to young people on violence in entertainment media, certain genres of music, clothing/fashion trends, young subcultures and other hysterical moral panics, etc.

      While some individuals are more prone to generalised anxiety disorders, the majority of the time anxiety is simply a symptom of an underlying mental illness such as agoraphobia, other specific phobias, depression, bipolar disorder, OCD/OCP, PTSD, etc. Secondary to psychiatric problems, chronic health issues can also be causes of anxiety though this is less common (e.g. hypo/hyperthyroidism, chronic drug use/dependency, cardiovascular problems, etc).

      Children aren't born anxious but these tendencies develop and peak around adolescence due to developmental problems and unresolved trauma.

      "Seeing" psychiatrists/mental health professionals and actually taking the time to identify and understand the root causes of mental health issues are two entirely different things.

      Plenty of people see psychologists and psychiatrists for years with absolutely nothing to show for it in terms of meaningful improvements to their life for 2 main reasons: a lack of honesty (on both parties' sides) and an insufficiently experienced/trained psychologist/psychiatrist that doesn't specialise in their particular disorders. There's also far too many people in the mental health profession in general who are overly reliant on pharmaceuticals of questionable efficacy and quick-fix, band aid solutions instead of taking a slower, more holistic and thorough approach (i.e. "just take the phone away").

      I don't know how far down the rabbit hole you've gone in exploring your child's mental health issues but sufficed to say, a good majority of it will stem entirely from YOU, her parents and that's something that inhibits a significant amount of parents from properly assessing, empathising with and meaningfully improving their child's mental health because it involves accepting a good amount of the responsibility/blame for their condition due to poor child-rearing/parental guidance or a lack thereof.

      Any psychiatrist worth their salt first excludes health conditions as being partly/wholly responsible for a mental illness and then proceeds to analyse a person's childhood, upbringing, parental/familial relationships and significant traumas before being able to give a somewhat accurate diagnosis.

      From the sounds of things in the OP, I think they've barely scratched the surface of the catalysts for this child's mental health issues and there's a serious lack of empathy and patience on the part of her parents in realising how deeply troubled modern young people are and how their brains are irrevocably altered for the worse in the first few years of exposure to technological stimuli, most of which is provided to them by their parents themselves who hold the ultimate responsibility for their child's welfare.

      There's no way I'd be giving a 13 year old a regular, high-end smartphone with zero restrictions to begin with but modern, Western parents are abject failures when it comes to raising children by and large along with being incredibly selfish and usually seeking the easiest/quickest solution to their children's problems. Their kids are the inevitable by-products of their failings and this fact alone is what prevents most families from actually resolving such issues.

      • sardines on 22/08/2023 - 15:09
        +3

        Thank you - yes, specilist stated that when our daughter first experienced anxierty, she uncertain how to deal with it and why she was getting it. Unfortunately, school is where she placed the source of it and that has been reinforced in her brain.- Anxiety is like bubbles, when you get it, normal parts of living like work, exercise, school, sickness etc can be weak spots and depends where that anxiety bubble bursts, that is where you will reinforce that that is the source of anxity - even if its not, just manifested in that one issue,.
        We initally had brain scans, saw a Paediatric gastroenterologist etc to rule out any physical reason. Did see theripists and psychiatrist and was diagnosed with general anxierty disorder.
        I am fully aware there is significant childhood trauma there as well that we are trying to address with specilist help
        Reflecting, it was a bad idea giving daughter a smartphone - it initally had restrictions but she bypassed them. Teenagers communicate via phones, texts and social media, its the norm.
        Though i understand kids are generally by-products of family life, phones are also a necessity - that is not absolving me of any blame as plenty on my plate as well. I have full understanding on the mental harm social media is doing, that is why i am trying to fix it and hopefully its not too late.

        • WhyAmICommenting on 24/08/2023 - 11:47

          Random thought. Have you considered “teaming up” with her to tackle the problem?

          Ask her what she thinks is reasonable and healthy and how much she wants the phone to control her life. Then work together on that outcome even if it’s not ideal/perfect outcome. Might be a step forward.

      • larndis on 22/08/2023 - 17:01
        -4

        @Gnostikos Do you have any sources to back up your claims, or are they just your expert opinion?

        • Gnostikos on 22/08/2023 - 17:25

          Yes, my own personal dealings with many psychiatrists/psychologists over the years.

          Thanks for the mindless neg and for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion, how about next time instead of demanding burdens of proof you yourself never provide, you actually post some constructive criticism?

          If you think I took the time to write out half a page of detailed insight into how effective psychiatric care works on the basis of my own imagination then you're really revealing your own ignorance there.

          • Whomastadon on 24/08/2023 - 11:06
            -1

            @Gnostikos: " in my own experience " as evidence whilst criticising everyone else's.

            Ok

            • Gnostikos on 24/08/2023 - 11:51
              -2

              @Whomastadon: Last time I checked, this was primarily a bargain-hunting website and not PubMed Central, so you can take your incredibly high standards of journalistic integrity (which I'm sure you abide by on every single post you make) and shove them.

              The only people who demand citations/sources are those who never contribute anything of value nor do they have sources to backup their own infallible opinions nor are they capable of using Google to validate glaringly obvious facts but they're so filled with lazy, self-entitlement that they demand others perform this chore for them.

              I'm sure you post nothing but peer-reviewed journal links on OzBargain yourself. Stop being a massive hypocrite.

              whilst criticising everyone else's.

              At least I take the time to argue a point instead of just scrolling and negging while posting worthless one-liner remarks like "wHeRe'S yOuR sOUrCeSsSs?!". I swear the only posters who use this line are those with absolutely nothing to say but who nevertheless feel the need to signal to others that they're having a little tantrum whenever their fragile views are challenged.

              • larndis on 25/08/2023 - 09:11

                @Gnostikos: @Gnostikos You made a lot of sweeping claims and generalisations, while others simply commented on their own personal experiences.

                Yes, I do think broad claims like 'all western parenting is shit and the source of all problems' should be backed with evidence, I'm sorry this is so triggering for you.

                I get that you have lived experience but that doesn't diminish others' experiences, stop shouting everyone down.

                Others' experiences are just as valid as yours.

                • Gnostikos on 25/08/2023 - 14:07

                  @larndis:

                  Yes, I do think broad claims like 'all western parenting is shit and the source of all problems' should be backed with evidence,

                  Great, so why don't you lead by example, follow your own principles and post a million sources refuting my claims?

                  I'll wait… but as has been the case with every single poster who asks for "sauces" on OzBargain, they'll never abide by their own silly standards.

                  I'm sorry this is so triggering for you.

                  It's not but keep projecting.

                  stop shouting everyone down.

                  Again, you're projecting so much your username should be Cinema larndis.

                  If you have a problem with my writing style feel free to get in touch with my customer service department via [email protected]

                  Others' experiences are just as valid as yours.

                  Nowhere did I say they weren't. You're awfully sensitive to words like a lot of people on OzBargain and see any sort of conviction in someone's beliefs as people being "negative" or "aggressive". Again, it's more related to your perceptions and idiosyncrasies than any actual intention on my part.

                  • larndis on 25/08/2023 - 16:25

                    @Gnostikos: I hope you find whatever you're looking for

                  • Whomastadon on 14/09/2023 - 10:57

                    @Gnostikos: " unicorns exist "

                    " no they don't "

                    " PROVE THEY DONT!! "

                    What a clown

    • larndis on 22/08/2023 - 17:09

      @pcb7 The phone itself isn't the cause of the issue, but it can be used in many negative ways that amplify the issue and make it much harder to make positive changes. I don't think anyone believes that controlling the phone use is a silver bullet, but that doesn't mean it's not a really important part of the puzzle. My daughter was adamant that her phone was her lifeline but that couldn't have been further from the truth.

  • Odin on 22/08/2023 - 10:06
    +1

    Everyone writing stuff like "take it away" - you're not solving the problem

    You need to talk to your daughter and get close to them, listen to them, and you need to get YOUR DAUGHTER to be the one who decides to change.

    Having someone else take control is never going to solve this long term. Shell just learn to be reliant on others to control her life - very very bad life lesson.

    Somehow you need to get your daughter motivated to reduce phone usage.

    You need to learn WHY she is doing this. Really learn. You need to listen, be supportive, be empathetic.

    • skillet on 22/08/2023 - 10:30
      +1

      I think you missed the word "addiction" as stated by the op.

      • Odin on 22/08/2023 - 10:33

        How do you solve someone who's addicted to cigarettes? Or alcohol?

        Do you get their parents to come in and take it away from them?

        Or is the advice that the person with the problem has to 'want to change'.

        • trapper on 22/08/2023 - 13:50
          +1

          If your 13 year old daughter is addicted to cigarettes or alcohol.

          Then yes, you come in and take it away from them.

          There will be other steps needed, but that is definitely the first.

          • Odin on 22/08/2023 - 13:59

            @trapper: Yes. Similar conversation with below poster.

        • juki on 22/08/2023 - 19:58

          sometimes people dont have the strength and need someone to take charge and decide for them
          sometimes if the behaviour continues longer because you need to understand before standing inactive while they decide to change, you have missed the boat and so have they

          phone is one of many problems, remove phone = one less problem

          oh and this is about a kid and their parent, not an adult

      • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 01:41

        You know what often goes hand in hand with 'addiction'?
        What we call a 'coping mechanism'.

        But yes, absolutely i believe phones are addictive these days As are video games. They are designed to be. And if you are using something as a coping mechanism, you need to fix or alleviate the core issue and then when necessary, find an alternative coping mechanism.

    • U4333439 on 22/08/2023 - 13:02
      +2

      If she was 18, I would agree. At 13 though this sounds like the wrong approach. She is your responsibility, you need to step up and parent. What are the boundaries. What behaviour is ok. What is not. Yes, if my 13yo was smoking, I would take it away from them. I would not wait for them to 'want to change'.

      You don't have this level of control for ever and you need to use the time you have well. If you don't/haven't used it, by the time they get to 18, you can't do anything but offer support.

      My eldest is 10, so I acknowledge I still have this ahead of me, but I have heard similar advice/complaints from parents of younger kids who 'can't control them' (see other forum post about devil 3yo), and I just think they're not trying hard enough. Exceptions abound where children have real behavioural issues, but from my view point this often seems like a crutch for bad parenting.

      • Odin on 22/08/2023 - 13:29

        if my 13yo was smoking, I would take it away from them.

        Of course. But you know that if that's all you did they'd be smoking behind your back

        There's a reason it's a trope for kids to smoke behind their parents backs.

        I think the lessons you impart on a child form the adult.

        You can't simply teach them that an authority figure will be there to control them their entire lives.

        • U4333439 on 22/08/2023 - 13:31

          I agree with all that 👍

  • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 22/08/2023 - 10:27

    How about sit down and talk to her about your concerns. Listen to her feedback and then come to an agreement on how to solve the problems. Present her with some options to choose from. If she cant choose then you choose for her.

  • ChipsChicky on 22/08/2023 - 11:08
    +2

    Go to hilly areas for few days, do trekking, preferable leave the phones at home, will be much easier to implement your plan on the way back.

  • Dack Smith on 22/08/2023 - 11:58
    -1

    I think this is everybody these days, phone addicts

    Can’t stop, won’t stop, get withdrawal symptoms lol

    I’m sure she will grow out of it after ruining her life

    You gotta learn the hard lessons or you’ll never learn

  • Canjoos on 22/08/2023 - 12:18
    +2

    Had a similar but much less impact experience with my teenager
    We agreed on some kind of restrictions and ended up installing qustodio on all his devices aka laptop, phone etc. This restricts his time and once his time is up it's up. He can't access the internet.
    Early days but seems to be working for us.
    Good luck. It's so tough on the family

  • 2esc on 22/08/2023 - 12:42

    We banned tik tok but they will find other websites. Youtube shorts is popular but 99% is rubbish.

    Our 14 year old still loves his screen time but can walk away and do other things with his mates any chance you get offer to drop them off at friends or make room for them at your place.

    They know now where they can get a cooked lunch on the weekends half a dozen teenage boys at the patio table demolish anything we put in front of them.

    Now our 10 year old might be a bit more trouble for us.

  • Hangryuman on 22/08/2023 - 14:43
    +1

    Dr Phil's advice was if kids are not behaving OK, take away the thing they love most - in this case apparently the phone

    not knowing the people, I would wonder if the teenager would run away - this goes to the rest of the relationship with the parents and family which I don't know about.

    the most effective parenting tends to be warm attention - high expectations, with high attention

    if the kid is always staring at their phone, that suggests the parents have not been interacting with the child so much, and they are using the phone as a crutch to get the attention they want, which creates a danger zone if/when a random on the internet says 'your beautiful' and 'meet me tonight', she sneaks out at night, and is then raped/killed or given fentanyl or some other life-changing nightmare.

    • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 01:48

      Dr Phil's advice was if kids are not behaving OK, take away the thing they love most - in this case apparently the phone

      "Dr" Phil was a practicing psychologist for 20 years, but he has not been a licensed or practicing 'Doctor' of anything since 2006, so he's at least 17 years out of date.

      And that take away the thing they love most is some serious 'old school' parenting.
      ……get a second and third opinion.

  • Joey2scoops on 22/08/2023 - 14:44
    -1

    If this is an android phone you could try Qustodio. Have a look at least, similar problem in the past. If it's iOS, you're pretty much screwed. Their built in parental controls are not fantastic, had the experience, never again

    • mranderson978 on 22/08/2023 - 15:14

      What's wrong with the iPhone parental controls? My experience is overwhelmingly positive. It allows you to control everything including apps, and how long they're allowed to have for any given app.

  • mranderson978 on 22/08/2023 - 15:12

    There's no need to buy a new phone. iPhone's come with really good parental controls that allow you to lock down everything.
    You can disable downloading new apps.
    You can disable tiktok
    You can disable instagram
    You can even turn off her camera.
    Just remove he features you don't want to her to have.
    Save your money.

    • larndis on 22/08/2023 - 17:13

      did you miss the bit about the daughter easily bypassing the iphone controls?

      • pformag on 23/08/2023 - 10:51
        +2

        You can set screentime with passcode. I don't know how you would get around this.

  • abently on 22/08/2023 - 15:17
    +1

    To the OP, don't take these comments to heart. There's lot of ideas here. You know your kid best.

  • Benicio on 22/08/2023 - 16:47
    +2

    She is the perfect age for a youth camp 'DIGITAL DETOX PROGRAM', "KOKODA DIGITAL DETOX" etc, a great 1-2 week kids camp with councelors gets them away from devices and helps them to regulate their usage also adressing the underlying issues causing the addiction.

    Highly recommended, will change the whole family dynamic.

  • 00000000 on 22/08/2023 - 17:38

    Use qustodio

  • Loopholio on 22/08/2023 - 17:56
    +1

    My eldest nephew has been raised by screens, a choice by his father. This nephew is now almost 21, he doesn't leave the house or do anything for himself, not even clean his room. All he does is watch video and play games. I am not being hyperbolic, this kid cannot do anything else, not even cook or make a sandwich. His father will likely be in hospital soon and dead within five years. Ever seen Arrested Development? This is an extreme case. I have no idea how this kid will survive on his own. I say kid not to be cruel, but because he is very much still a child.

    Now, to be fair to both my nephew and his father, the child has ADHD controlled by meds. This was the only option because the father doesn't have what it takes to deal with an unmedicated kid. This isn't about the evils of the SCREEN. Screens sure as hell didn't help, but they are not the only issue in this case.

    My younger nephew has had very limited screen access. He doesn't even have a gaming console or smart phone. Not easy at the age of 13. He has a little ADD which his mother chose to control without medication. He's doing very well for himself, but he is a different person.

    I don't have kids and I very likely never will, but I sure as hell would limit their screen time even though I spend a huge part of my life watching TV and reading posts like these. My advice would be to make a decision to do something. Massively limit phone and screen access so your child is nice and bored. Kids need to be bored, adults too.

    • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 01:50

      My eldest nephew has been raised by screens, a choice by his father.

      Your nephew was neglected, gotcha.

      Why do i unfortunately vibe with this?

      Now, to be fair to both my nephew and his father, the (20 year old adult) child has ADHD controlled by meds.

      Ahh, that's why, thought so….
      But….maybe he needs therapy and meds that work?

      My younger nephew has had very limited screen access. He doesn't even have a gaming console or smart phone. Not easy at the age of 13. He has a little ADD which his mother chose to control without medication. He's doing very well for himself, but he is a different person.

      Wait, what?
      I mean a little ADD? When was he officially diagnosed? He's 13, and he has a mother that sounds like she's very much on top of him to hold him together, that may be why you think he has a little ADD. Get back to me when he's 25 running his own life….

      I mean. I feel bad. You're praising a possibly micro-mananged 13+ year old with what sounds like a great parent. But….where did you get a little ADD from? Everyone is different, but ADHD often has a pronounced negative impact on your life - possibly even medicated. But then you say the man child whose single father raised him with a screen who has ADHD is a lost cause but, welp. It feels wrong. Like you're praising one for performing the most correct acceptable, "just a little damaged and overcame it", while the one that is ahem 'damaged' and needs help - depression is often co-morbid - is just…gee, i don't know what they're gonna do when the real world hits them in the face, but the one that was just a little damaged did it. Best of luck. btw, deep down i think you're just lazy, but mostly, i want you to remain not my problem.

      There's checklists and criteria, and i'm not sure it is particularly simple to get diagnosed as a minor, unless it's obvious enough for meds to be needed. A little ADD - ADD is an out of date term, and no meds? Is someone fibbing?

      • Loopholio on 25/08/2023 - 17:33
        -1

        I feel like you've had all that bottled up for some time. I think you may be putting a great deal more of your own life into my words. I don't know why you vibe with this, but feel free to share :)

        I wrote a fairly long reply but I got bored editing it so I've cut it down to a TLDR.

        Yes, therapy and meds worked well enough. More should have been done, but was not.
        Dealing with a kid who shows minor signs of ADD is easy. Everybody's got something. :)
        It's wasn't easy getting diagnosed as a minor. It took months, but it was worth the effort.
        I don't know if someone is fibbing. Fibbing is a silly word. Fibbing.
        I will not be getting back to you 12 years from now.

        This thread is about screens and kids. I say screens are bad for kids. Boo screens. Boo.

    • Gnostikos on 25/08/2023 - 19:32
      -1

      My eldest nephew has been raised by screens, a choice by his father.

      That's a weird way of saying that he had negligent, absentee parents that didn't raise him.

      This is nothing new and again the myopic focus on "muh evil mobile phones/TikTok" is silly.

      The outcome would have been much the same had your nephew been born 50 years ago with the difference being that instead of screens/videogames he would have turned to other life-destroying pursuits like crime, drugs, vagrancy, etc.

      Modern parents are quite neurotic and ill-prepared for children and have no concept of understanding that every generation faces the same fundamental challenges in different guises.

      Again, mobile phones, social media and technological dependence are all just the modern-day incarnation of what has been a thorn in the side of parents since time immemorial: aimless, unmotivated children who struggle to find meaning and purpose in life and cling to their parents' teet well beyond a reasonable age. The solution has also been largely the same since time immemorial: the school of hard knocks, adopting responsibility and facing your fears.

      /Thread

  • tonka on 22/08/2023 - 18:21

    Need to completely reset them. Pack up and take on a road trip or send to family overseas. The screen is procrastination, it's their habit and routine needs to be fixed, the whole behavior needs to be interrupted. Take a good look at the peer group and maybe try and re-balance that. Nothing has more influence than peer group. The objective is to try and build more desirable compulsions.

    • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 02:29

      Why not chuck mormonism in? Have 6 more kids. They'll be to raising their siblings and won't have time for a life.

      "procrastination" - they will find something else.
      "habit" -
      "routine"

      Not all of these are as simple as what you present them to be and it's a lot easier to apply them to adults. Since a parent typical controls to some degree the childs 'habit' and 'routine'.

      Let's throw in:

      "Easy" - It's easy on the brain which seeks novelty.
      "Diversion" or "escapism" - Like above, you can easily distract yourself for what makes you uncomfortable.
      "Outlet" - It may be one of their few 'safe' outlets to talk about how they are actually feeling online.
      "Connection" - It may again be one of the few places they feel like can readily communicate with others without any real anxiety, fear of rejection, or as their real selves, such as one can be at 13.
      "Symptom" - the phone over use may well be a symptom of a bigger problem, especially if they can't seem to - or refuse to - be without it. Especially since i've gleamed it's also how they communicate with their wider family, who OP suggests might be influencing them negatively, especially against them as parent/s. In other dynamics we call that isolation…but with a kid…

  • Bunnyburger on 22/08/2023 - 18:37
    +1

    lol you're in a shit spot, the corporal punishment trauma of the 80-90s OR the impairment of caused by the apps of today.

    There's a saying for alcoholics and addicts, you have to fill that void which the vice left behind. Maybe you could find something for your daughter.

  • Dumb Dad on 22/08/2023 - 18:52

    Some ideas:

    • Dodo data plan which throttles the data speeds to a very slow level after 4GB. Frustration in using apps like TikTok with slow load times without even realising what's wrong.
    • Camping without ability to get to a phone until they detox
    • Being an obnoxious parent who is constantly looking over her shoulder to annoy her into submission
    • Inpatient treatment
  • Dreamcast on 22/08/2023 - 19:13
    +2

    Ahh there it is, my weekly reminder to not have kids!

    Good luck mate. Hopefully she realises a smart phone is privilege not a right.

    • Loopholio on 22/08/2023 - 19:43

      Need cash fast? I will buy your eggs / scrotum for $$$$!!

    • capslock janitor on 22/08/2023 - 19:44

      My weekly reminder how to be a better parent heh

    • newjerseydamo on 24/08/2023 - 11:38

      Pretty much how I see this sort of stuff too lol.

  • capslock janitor on 22/08/2023 - 19:44

    What's the age?

  • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2023 - 19:47

    Good luck to all parents. Some helpful comments contributed in this thread.

  • tryagain on 22/08/2023 - 22:14

    Some helpful comments already, will just +1 to the idea of talking to her about it first, let her know why you are doing it, and follow through with consequences i.e lock down her current phone, but let her know if she is caught circumventing this etc then it's the flip phone, no negotiations. Additionally, try new things to replace the phone habit, walking is excellent for mental health, and walking with her and talking is great for creating a connection.

  • Windows7forever on 22/08/2023 - 23:14

    My dad would have taken the phone off me and smashed it if I had that attitude.

  • BlueberryOrangeJuice on 23/08/2023 - 00:00
    +3

    Just remember that whatever you do could end up being a core memory for her that’ll impact her future and your relationship.

    And especially with an anxiety disorder you don’t want to bring about any panic attack issues which can turn into a debilitating experience.

    I hope everything works out for her, and your family :)

    • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 02:34
      +2

      I was just thinking about how things weirdly became core memories for me the other day.
      Op should remember, you can say sorry, say i'm human, i did the wrong thing, i made a mistake…
      But you can't undo it. Might be something they remember for the rest of their lives about you, even if you did say sorry.

      • BlueberryOrangeJuice on 30/08/2023 - 00:31
        +1

        100% and the people who do it - usually parents or guardians genuinely don’t remember it. It doesn’t have the same impact on them. Sad 😢

  • sintro on 23/08/2023 - 00:57

    Screen time 20 min a day Max.

  • serpserpserp on 23/08/2023 - 08:04

    Tough one. We grapple with it for our younger kids too.

    I think it comes back to us parents unfortunately. You have to set the ground rules and model the behaviour. I've had to learn to not use my phone around the kids as a means of distraction or entertainment, hard to set a rule of "no screens for you" then you plop on the couch every night using it. This can be really hard.

    You probably need to restrict it at the router or phone level if you want to just stop tiktok but they will find something else. A dumb phone is a good start, you can get them a slightly nicer one that doesn't do social media. Or you know, just restrict phone use when they come home at night, until they have done their homework/exercise or whatever you need them to do. Try to include some bonding time.

    But it also sounds like there are underlying issues at school, keep seeing a child psychologist, follow their directions. Even if you banned phones in your household your child isn't magically going to be a perfect child overnight (although with my younger kids the improvement is pretty remarkable after a couple of weeks of no screens during the week). It is a long term thing and it is on the parents to "set the tone" every single day.

  • pformag on 23/08/2023 - 10:46
    +1

    Use screen time on her iPhone if you still want her to have a phone. You can limit everything as long as she doesn't know your passcode for it :)

    I would also use your router to block certain websites on the whole network for wifi.

    Need to go hard now, to save pain later.

  • cupcake on 23/08/2023 - 10:59

    Bloody teenagers. Too late to put them up for adoption.
    You're just going to have to change the wifi password and limit their usage to 10gb a month plan.
    If they want more data/new phone or device, they will have to earn it with good behaviour/manners, good reports, good exam results, good attendance.
    Take away privileges, no/less pocket money, access to data on weekends when they want to be with friends online and especially if they are snappy back.

    Talk to the year co-ordinator. They might be able to help and keep an eye on her. School counselling will help.
    Good luck.

  • Davo1111 on 23/08/2023 - 12:15

    Cut the sim, cut home wifi

  • knk on 23/08/2023 - 12:15
    +2

    Just be aware that everyone communicates via a phone these days. You will alienate her from her friends by giving her a flip phone.

    • ReaperX22 on 23/08/2023 - 14:21

      There's some cut down phones that have like whatsapp pre installed right? I haven't looked for some time though.

      • knk on 24/08/2023 - 09:55
        +1

        Not sure honestly, I figure kids are probably communicating via messenger / instagram these days though?

    • Herbse on 24/08/2023 - 10:25
      -1

      Maybe that's what she needs

    • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 02:38

      Gonna suck if she gets a job and shifts get switched around via this random app or facebook messenger….

      But those are a far cry from endless tiktoks…

      • knk on 25/08/2023 - 10:48
        +1

        Exactly, not having a phone with at least the ability to chat to people is not practical

    • ReaperX22 on 23/08/2023 - 14:19

      Found the boomer

      • nobro25 on 23/08/2023 - 14:59

        Really? That's not even an argument. That's abusive labelling at best. You didn't even break any points and why it's bad.

        If you can make a valid point why it's bad then I concede. However you're just attacking random people internet at this point.

  • monky on 23/08/2023 - 14:55
    +1

    Have you tried looking at programs that teach social media skills? I've seen one-day courses at the local Tafe and online that teach content production and even coding for Snapchat/Instagram/Tiktok filters which might not be immediately accessible for someone as young as 13, but having a shot at exploring the field might not hurt? Could even start with sitting in with online tutorials on YouTube… I know a lot of 13 year olds play far too much Roblox, and creating content for that is lucrative if marketed properly.

    Lean into it and maybe she'll find an empowering and fun entry-point for a huge range of creative digital pursuits.

    The alternative unfortunately will end in alienation from her friends and likely further resentment for yourself: It's nothing you're doing wrong; but unfortunately kids see all these rules and restrictions and they seem completely arbitrary to them; so full of energy and wanting to experience as much as possible without restriction… Sponges with ADHD.

  • FallaM on 23/08/2023 - 15:34
    +1

    OP as a young dude whose parents forced to do things I didn't want to and was a hard-arse about it - just be a hard-arse. I guarantee your daughter will grow up thinking you did the right thing, even if it takes time.

    I was an internet addict when I was a teenager and honestly wished people told me to just grow up and took it away from me or something.

    Also, LOTS of young women are going to the gym and weight training now and there is literally nothing on Earth better for your brain than that.

  • ThePojo on 23/08/2023 - 16:12

    It definitely sounds like an addiction, I don't have a child so I don't know exactly the right answer. But I would consider firstly that when someone is addicted to something they will find a way to do it.

    It's obvious that you're frustrated and when you say "glued to the bloody phone" it sounds like you are frustrated with it and I don't know if that energy is going to resolve it.

    If it were me, I would work out with her a plan for getting off it. You could involve a reward, find out something that she really wants, and get her to start working toward it with you.

    This might be stupid but I think I would do something like this:

    Take her out for a nice dinner, and get her in a happy mood where she is listening. Discuss with her that you want to do something nice for her and that as a family you are going to implement a plan that involves her stopping using the phone and in turn you will get her something big that she wants. Part of the deal is going to have to be that she doesn't have access to a smart phone. That's just how it's got to be, you can't give an alcoholic alcohol while you get them off it.

    I wouldn't take it for 5 weeks and then give it back to her. I would tell her the phone is gone, don't give her a date. It might take longer than 5 weeks to get her off it, and if she knows she's getting it back in 5 weeks she might be able to hold out, but what you really want is her to stop being addicted to Tik Tok.

    The key is that she needs to be on board with it and want to do it. Taking someone to a psychiatrist that doesn't want to go is a waste of time. You can't just throw money at the problem hoping it will go away. It's going to take a big effort as a family and she needs to be on board with it.

    You don't need to punish her, because it's really her problem even if it upsets you, she's not doing it to spite you, she's addicted to something that's very addicting.

  • belongsinforums on 23/08/2023 - 16:42

    I had to buy my first mobile. Surely she's not working as a 13 year old.

  • syousef on 23/08/2023 - 23:45

    In your shoes I might take the phone and offer it for an hour or so in the evening (without a sim card perhaps, on wifi) as an incitive if she does the right thing. If she doesn't hand it back or doesn't do what's required, she loses it until she shows she's doing the right thing. But I know my kids well enough to know they're not going to do anything extreme if I were to do that. I'm very reluctant to tell you what you should do if it's already gotten to the point where school officials and health professionals are involved. There use to be a time when those health professionals could help.

    If she absolutely needs a phone to be able to call you, a flip phone isn't a bad way to go.

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