Taking Mobile Phone off Teen

sardines on 21/08/2023 - 12:00
Last edited 28/08/2023 - 09:13 by 2 other users

Hi all, uncertain where to place this.

My teenage daughter is addicted to her phone and bloody TikTok. Its effecting her school attendance where attendance support officers are involved. She said she has anxiety and we have gone to psychiatrists, therapists, paediatrician specialists but none of the advice is taken as she is glued to the phone (i.e. 30 minutes of exercise a day, positive reinforcement).

When you tell her to get up in the morning its basically the middle finger and not a care in the world. When she is at school she does shake and cry sometimes and there is anxiety but it's magnified by phone addiction - To a young brain, why not get the dopamine hits rather than sit in a class.

I am thinking of buying a basic flip phone, replacing the sim from her iPhone at night to break that addiction — will be for 5 weeks till she can demonstrate she can at least get up in time for school and do some work rather than lay in bed. after 5 weeks if all goes well, return phone and keep tight controls on it.

I know this will cause tremendous amount of rage but if she goes the way she is, her future will be (profanity).

Has anyone gone through this or offer advice of school refusal and phone addiction/anxiety?

Thanks!

Edit: After daughter fighting and saying how unfair it is to take her main communication with friends - that how can we be so cold and heartless to do such a thing, we negotiated to put on strict restrictions on her phone (iphone parental controls/time limit). Will see how it goes - it goes without saying that i am seen as the worst parent and she is getting condolences from extended family.
Thank you everyone for your advice and guidance. I hope other parents and teens survive todays society and vested interests.

Mobile

Comments

  • Muzeeb on 21/08/2023 - 12:02
    +109

    No advise advice but plenty of sympathy. Good luck. Tough gig these days.

    • afoveht on 21/08/2023 - 13:05
      +14

      Yes, plenty of evidence now to show the maladies associated with excessive screen time, especially for kids - surprisingly little talk about it as a matter of public health policy. IMO we're fkd ATM, looking forward to change.

        • afoveht on 21/08/2023 - 19:43
          +5

          Who said that phones are to blame for everything?

        • larndis on 22/08/2023 - 09:13
          +8

          Do you have a teenager?

        • imurgod on 23/08/2023 - 10:28
          +2

          I mean the studies have been done and the results prove the effects of excessive screen time causes these and more issues.

    • BuDWiZe on 24/08/2023 - 13:26
      +1

      are you in brisbane kokoda have a digital detox camp thats just amazing. They are trying to roll it out in schools soon and trying to get tech back out of schools.
      They also teach you a lot of how to try and limit ( not ban ) use with your kids so they can still use it but in a healthy way

    • TiredKitty78 on 24/08/2023 - 23:24
      -1

      Tldr: I have inattentive adhd. It sounds like your daughter may have that or a similar executive dysfunction issue, just it looks different for her gen. You sound like a parent who thinks you need to fix YOUR problem with the school, by throwing her at psychs and other professionals and bemoaning ‘why hasn’t SHE fixed HERSELF yet?’. Something maybe in the back of your mind says ‘I did’. I hear vague ‘I’ve done everything I’ve been told to’ with subtext….because other people have noticed her issues and now something HAS to be done. I’ve NOT heard: I’ve talked with psychs, her, WE have discussed things with psychs and made changes, we’ve come up with plans, we’ve discussed why plans aren’t working. We’ve (or her and the psych) talked about how she feels about herself, school, what she wants from life, we looked into her sleep schedule. We’ve spoken to specialists to get her with what I think is her “addiction” to her phone. You want to get her a ‘dumb phone’ to punish her. so she’ll magically un-fook her life and be great now. If she doesn’t have her phone, she’ll suddenly do all the things you want her to do? Wrong. She might just watch grass grow or go do drugs and get pregnant. You demand action action action. You want to take action to force action to fix the problem which – to you - are her actions or lack of. But you’ve kept - even talking online – emotion at a distance, or not factored it in to your daughters ‘treatment’ at all. Maybe because you’ve not been trusted with that, because you may not be able to provide ‘emotionally’ safe reciprocity with your daughter. Possibly because you’re in – deep - denial about your own self. Find your daughter a specialist psychiatrist that deals or ‘has an interest’ specifically in ADHD. And if possible, deals with has ADHD manifests in girls. Many psychs don’t believe ADHD even exists. They’re dumb on this subject. Find a reputable psych that is everything ADHD.
      I spent hours hyper fixating on this reply wasting my time. It’s still kinda gibberish that I projected - I think - quite a bit of my issues onto.

      ============================

      Ok, i'll assume here above that you've done everything you've said and you have ruled out everything on a psychiatric level - such as ADHD. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT: Many many psychiatrists are not specialized in identifying what we recognise in the modern day as attention deficits or just executive dysfunction issues. Some believe ADHD - a recognised and medicated disorder - and such do not even exist. Many would not know what attention/executive dysfunction issues look like in GIRLS if it hit them in the face, and would rather say your kid is bipolar, because that's what 5 pages in their 10 year old textbook said.

      It is possible to be addicted to anything. Is she is truly addicted to her phone like a smoker always needs something in their hand? Then you need to discuss with the/a psych that probably specialises in addiction, what you are going to replace her phone usage with. You daughter should have discussed in depth with the psychiatrist, and then all three of you, on why she uses the phone, what is possibly being avoided in using it - she may not know or be able to admit it. Especially if ahem, she knows that psych REPORTS to YOU. What does she get from it?

      =========

      It concerns me that instead of steps, you seem like the parent who has just said 'get your sheet together, or i'll punish you by getting rid of your phone' And you think that they will then…get their sheet together. Poof. Like magic. Ok, maybe if your kid is a brat, and this is just an updated boundary that needs to be established. But if you're all to ready to say your kid IS a brat, YOU, need to….maybe see someone about why you parent the way you do. Hint: Plenty of times old school parents that got guff from their parents and now say 'suck it up buttercup, i did'. Thinking they're giving their kids the tough love they need to push push push through the hard stuff, find their kids - sometimes - eventually discover by themselves as adults, that there was actually neurodivergency involved. Then they look at you through that new lens to, how did my parent not now? My parent says they were just like me, and i kinda was, and knowing what i know now…..

      But they and you might be completely 'fine'. I'll point out: She can only do what the amount of 'resources' in her brain allow her to do, and she is still a kid. Her brain is not fully formed, she is not a young ADULT.

      Here's my TLDR: My vibe. YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. Because YOU need YOUR child to fix YOUR PROBLEM. Which is her actions which are getting YOU in trouble with the school. Sure, you've thrown her to all the professionals to FIX HER, but what i'm not hearing is what YOU'VE LEARNED and what YOU"VE DONE to help her. Considering:

      She said she has anxiety and we have gone to psychiatrists, therapists, paediatrician specialists

      "She said" To me firstly, this sounds super dismissive from you. Have you actually discussed this with her? Look, fair enough if she doesn't want to discuss it with you. You don't have that relationship, she doesn't trust you, or she has an understanding that you are not able to meet her on that emotional level - or that it would not be 'safe' for her to do that. Perhaps "she said" Is because that's only what has been shared with you. Have YOU put yourself out there, attempted to discuss it with her - and accepting neutrally - what she tells you? Have you discussed it with the psychiatrist? Because if you had, you likely would not be here looking for untrained professionals to tell you what to do, when you've already had trained professionals at your disposal. I have inattentive ADHD, some things that stick out to me that might be 'inattentive teen 2.0', me who did not grow up having the little chunks of dopamine and avoidance through using the modern smartphone are:

      • but none of the advice is taken as she is glued to the phone (i.e. 30 minutes of exercise a day, positive reinforcement).

      My brain used to tell me i was 'tired' and to nap in the afternoon instead of doing that school work i kinda wanted to genuinely get done and over with, but my brain did not want to put the effort into it. And then totally coincidentally, i'd do it late at night or last minute because that became a deadline for me to meet. If i had modern smartphone i might have been glued to it….because i was starting to get that way with computers. I still am. I spend time on nonsense. And i hate it. But do it again the next day.

      • but none of the advice is taken as she is glued to the phone (i.e. 30 minutes of exercise a day, positive reinforcement).

      Okay. You've gone so far as to throw her at psychs, and now fault her because SHE does not take any of their advice. Have YOU helped her? Reminded her? Encouraged her? Done it WITH HER. Set up a schedule. Hint: If she has adhd, you might be able to badger her into doing this, do it with her, and say I did a good job, and don't you feel better? surely she has habits that will stick now? No. With adhd/executive dysfunction this is not how it works. It will always be hard. (YMMV) Have you talked to her? Have you asked her what she thinks of what she's been advised to do? You may find that she does not like 'who she is' or 'the way she is'. I know for me personally, there are tons of things i know i should do and want to do, my brain just….will not do it. Sometimes even with meds, which i'm still figuring out.

      When you tell her to get up in the morning its basically the middle finger and not a care in the world.

      OK, you are telling us what YOU are seeing and what her behaviour suggests to YOU how she feels. Has she discussed it with you? The psychiatrist? Anxiety could be keeping her awake at night. Is she staying up all night on her phone? Staring at the ceiling. Does she suffer from insomnia? Does she have any sleep disorders? Does her body just….not want to go to sleep and she would stay up all night until 3am and then she realises she actually should get to sleep. Hint: That's part of my ADHD. Consider this, your teenager body is naturally inclined to do anything but sleep at night, so she wakes up after 3 hours sleep to her parent telling her she's fooking lazy and it's her own fault, she should have better habits and have her sheet together. Sure, maybe her friends do it to. But that's the ADHD problem. Sure they do it to, you almost can't NOT do it. That said, meds and therapy for this exist. She's tired, she's groggy, and if she's like me, that lighbulb might not really be switched on and she's not really going to be awake and let's say contributing thoughtfully to the world, or even really thinking so much, until she wakes up. And for some, they might not really be awake until they're meds for the day kick in. I hate that i stay up late. I hate that i sleep in late. I still do it. Unless i have a reason i must be up early, which generally means that i will get up at the very last minute possible. I'm a grown fooking adult. You're thinking, she was fine as a kid. Yes. As a kid she was low key programmed almost constantly no doubt to follow your rules, be a good girl, or else. She was under your thumb, and she probably slept the moment her head hit the pillow. Now she's a teen, your rules aren't the word of god anymore.

      she does shake and cry sometimes and there is anxiety but it's magnified by phone addiction - To a young brain, why not get the dopamine hits rather than sit in a class.

      Way to bury the lead. And THEN you yada yada yada it to say "but it's made worse by her phone". Because you think she needs to 'suck it up, buttercup'. Your daughter is expressing genuine distress….but let's focus on the thing i can do to punish her…because the school is getting mad at ME now? Ok. Why do i feel like this is being REPORTED to you by her teachers? Not something you are working through with your kid and her psychiatrist? I'm going to assume it's somewhat specific to the classroom when she's had a reaction that's been noticed. Or that other people have noticed who you can't say 'she's just a lazy' to? Ok. Why is she distressed? What happens before she gets distressed?

      Imagine you're a teenager again. You go into class. Does she have to 'assess' who she's going to sit with? Does she have a reliable group of friends? Oh no, did you remember your homework? Ugh you get out your workbook or folder. Maybe it's so unorganised (true or not) and you feel bad about it, compared to Staceys who has such a pretty organised one - that she keeps organised. The teacher starts talking to refresh for you what you learnt last time - and did homework on. You kinda maybe remember. Ok the teachers teaching you new things and…..you're kinda spacing out. You're daydreaming, maybe staring out the window. Maybe know things are being said and you are focusing on it, but your brain only caught half of it. (auditory processing disorders are common along with ADHD) Now you don't know what's going. Perhaps, in one ear, out the other like your parents always say. That's you. God why am i like this. How am i ever going to deal with being an adult? Wtf is my problem? Oh god, i'm getting upset, what if other people in class see I AM getting upset? Why am i always like this? I just have to do this and i won't have problems because i won't get in trouble at school and then they won't talk to my parents and then i won't be the weird one in the family and then everything will be fine because i won't be a problem and then everything will figure itself out right? And now i'm crying and shaking in class and i'm not sure why because i shouldn't be crying over this (because my parents 'taught me without teaching me' my emotions when i had them as a kid where 'bad' or didn't her me develop emotional intelligence because they barely have it themselves and now i struggle to recognise them unless it is a right now thing, which might have been "perceived rejection sensitive dysphoria"). That anxiety can be a 'symptom' of ADHD, or something else. Just emotions she needs help with.

      I am thinking of buying a basic flip phone.

      So do I. But I know from experience – as a late diagnosed adult - if there is something I’m avoiding doing or my brain is because it doesn’t want to do it, or does not have the resources that day I would watch grass grow rather then do that thing. FML. But it might be a good way to get her reading books? I would just daydream and watch tv again. Ok. ‘Dumb’ phone instead of smartphone. What is she going to do instead of dopamine hits? YOU WANT her to just….flip a switch because now she doesn’t have the one thing that provides dopamine and she’s obsessed with all My Preecccciiioossss. If she has ADHD or executive dysfunction issues, she’s not going to just do everything you demand she wants to do, care about doing, and do because “I SAID SO!” She’ll find anything else. Her brain will find whatever seems least deplete her dopamine and tax her system. Sheet, she might even clean because you can do that on autupilot and there can be satisfaction in a job well done. Sheet, have we discussed she might just be depressed? Sometimes, the body just does that. Forever, and she needs meds and long term therapy.

      • Is she being honest about what she is doing on her phone?
  • AustriaBargain on 21/08/2023 - 12:05
    +8

    You can restrict the TikTok app, Safari browser (which she can also access TikTok on), and make it so you need to approve all new apps (to prevent her from just downloading another browser). Restrict them all during school hours. She may want to share TikTok's with friends during lunch at school, you may not want to let her. I thought schools had banned phones anyway?

    My adult friends are literally addicted to TikTok too, so don't be too hard on her.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 21/08/2023 - 12:08
      +8

      I thought schools had banned phones anyway?

      Phones were banned even in non-smart phone days when I went to school decades ago..didnt stop them from just having them in the pocket and being smart about access.

    • sardines on 21/08/2023 - 12:35
      +9

      I did put in an app in iphone to restrict use but she found a way around it - refuses to give me the phone to reinstall it or change the password. So this is my last ditch attempt to just switch to flip phone so she can still contact friends but cannot watch social media

      • AustriaBargain on 21/08/2023 - 12:46
        +5

        Did you try Apple's in built solution? Have you added her Apple ID to your family?

      • thatonethere on 21/08/2023 - 13:12

        If you have the receipt you can take it to Apple and get the icloud lock removed.

        Like others have suggested you can use screentime but note plenty of easy hacks for the addicted.

        https://www.cloudwards.net/how-to-hack-screen-time/

        To u gh gig kids

      • poboy on 21/08/2023 - 13:39
        +1

        My router has an app to restrict usage within certain times. You can pair it to one or more devices.

        • thatonethere on 21/08/2023 - 15:24
          +2

          While the phone as a sim card restricting wifi no good

      • cookie2 on 21/08/2023 - 21:55
        +17

        Are you paying for it? Just switch off the plan/sim if you can and make her agree to it herself for 5 weeks.
        Then she's part of fixing it instead of feeling cheated by you swapping it at night (not that that's a bad idea).
        She'd have limited data and you'd disconnect the wifi at home so she couldn't use it at night.
        Could this work to restrict enough to encourage change?

      • smartazz104 on 22/08/2023 - 10:26
        +3

        She pays her own bill?

      • Cyphar on 22/08/2023 - 20:50
        +1

        Then do not give her phone credit, if on prepaid, or block her SIM if on postpaid, until she hands over the phone. Also block her wifi access

    • prmar73 on 22/08/2023 - 09:03
      +6

      Tik Tok. 'nuf said. There are some good channels but WAY too much nonsense. I know because I'm using it (or being caught up in it far too often). It is a completely unfiltered stream of 90 second shit IMO.

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 21/08/2023 - 12:07
    +1

    I am thinking of buying a basic flip phone

    might be the way to go unless you can install some master software that can control application use - which i think doesnt exist for iphone?

    • AustriaBargain on 21/08/2023 - 12:09
      +5

      Looks like it's called Screen Time, has been part of iPhone for years https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT208982#:~:text=If%20you%27….

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 21/08/2023 - 12:10

        hah damn apple 1 step ahead - assuming the password can be made different this sounds like the go .

        • AustriaBargain on 21/08/2023 - 12:13
          +1

          I think OP should be able to lock down the phone pretty thoroughly without even needing the passcode. Once Safari, TikTok, other social apps have been limited, there isn't much you can do with an iPhone. OP can leave the Wikipedia app accessible, the calculator. There probably a way to turn off the browser that's built into the system and is accessible by certain links you may get in the Messages app, to stop people from texting her links to TikTok pages, but I don't have kids so I really wouldn't know.

        • munecito on 22/08/2023 - 09:33

          Screentime hahaha.

          https://www.cloudwards.net/how-to-hack-screen-time/

          Not very useful to be honest

          • 2024 on 24/08/2023 - 19:09

            @munecito: Isn’t that a list of changes that can be made to the settings to lock down the defaults a bit more?

            If you carefully set it up, and remove everything from allowed apps, then there’s nothing anyone can do on the phone besides making and receiving calls.

  • ashdays on 21/08/2023 - 12:12
    +76

    Your teenage daughter is getting what's known as a Cognitive Overload. Constant interaction with websites puts a continuous load on the mind. Sometimes the body wants to literally shake it off. And at night the mind is so tired from the constant stimulus that it needs a lot of time to reset and refresh, only for the person to start doing it all over again.

    Don't be her friend, be her parent. Take off the phone and let the mind reset without the external stimulus.

    • trapper on 21/08/2023 - 12:17
      +47

      Don't be her friend, be her parent.

      +1

    • sardines on 21/08/2023 - 12:29
      +13

      yes, my dad would have belted me so im alot softer dad- I know in the long run this is the way but also know she will hate my guts for a few months. And yes, im not her friend but a parent. thanks!

      • peterpaoliello on 23/08/2023 - 07:51
        +2

        I think you need to treat it for what it is, an addiction. Further though you need to work with her to find something she can do away from the phone. Taking away the source but not giving anything to replace it with won't work.

        I feel like these professionals you're seeing are giving very rudimentary advice for what's a serious dependence.

        • TiredKitty78 on 24/08/2023 - 23:29

          This. If we are strictly saying it's an addiction - you can be addicted to anything really - then you need to figure out what's going to replace it, why it's possibly being used in the first place, what they get from it? Yeah, they could be getting anxiety and shakes - basically withdrawals - from being without it. But i suspect it might be ADHD and went on a crazy rant about it.

    • BuDWiZe on 24/08/2023 - 13:28
      +2

      its surprising how many parents dont actually realize they arent parenting and being the " friend " instead with tech. its quite the beast

  • trapper on 21/08/2023 - 12:18
    +1

    How old is your daughter?

    • sardines on 21/08/2023 - 12:29
      +3

      13

      • trapper on 21/08/2023 - 12:34
        +32

        Yeah lock it down completely or even confiscate.

        You can allow limited access under supervision when she is home and behaving herself.

      • brendanm on 21/08/2023 - 13:20
        +62

        Shouldn't even have tiktok full stop, absolute garbage.

        • thrifty mum on 22/08/2023 - 12:08
          +3

          Agreed! Even though my 17yo never asked for it, I told him years ago it's not allowed in our house. He's still never asked, and he has always been restricted time wise so as not to get addicted to phone. It's not that hard IMHO.

          • yoquierotaco on 24/08/2023 - 11:40

            @thrifty mum: glad that your process is working for you. Knowing how 80% of the parents I know struggle with this (not to the OP's level), I think it can be pretty difficult. I'm not looking forward to this stage lol.

        • FallaM on 23/08/2023 - 15:32
          +1

          The problem is that it's FUN garbage. It's literally the most fun app I've ever used. I had to delete it because it was just endless entertainment.

  • holdenmg on 21/08/2023 - 12:19

    What will the NSW phone ban mean for high school students?
    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/what-will-the-new-phone-…

  • mskeggs on 21/08/2023 - 12:24
    +15

    You don’t say how old your teen is, and I think 13 versus 17 would require a different approach.
    I’ve had similar issues, and the phone is just one element, and probably not the thing I would be most focused on.
    Why is she reluctant to go to school, how is she at sharing and communicating her feelings and needs, what can you do to support her in taking positive steps with her experience of anxiety?

    Making it a battle over control of a phone will just increase conflict. Better to try and spend the time and effort to help her recognise the problem herself, so you are working together to get the positive outcomes of reduced anxiety and improved school attendance.
    If she is hitting those expectations and being more reasonable about internet use, the symptom of too much phone use will no longer be present.

    Maybe take a long weekend away outside of cell range, with no possibility to recharge, and use the enforced time offline for everyone to think about how to balance things better.

    • sardines on 21/08/2023 - 12:33
      +5

      she is 13- have talked non stop of restrictions, time limits but none works.
      She refuses to go anywhere on the weekend as said gets car sick.
      Does not go to school due to anxity - was above average student, no bullies or problems with teachers (from what she has told us and specialists).
      School said anxiety, self harm etc is off the charts after covid and its a national problem.

      • bargaino on 21/08/2023 - 13:14
        +7

        All sounds like social-media influenced symptoms.

        You might have to go cold turkey. But speak to a GP, and get some valium or similar prescribed. Treat it like heroin withdrawal. Have you seen "Trainspotting"? That is what she will be like.

        • Protractor on 21/08/2023 - 16:08
          +6

          LOL. Will she crawl down the shitter?

      • Vanceer on 22/08/2023 - 16:36
        +2

        she is 13- have talked non stop of restrictions, time limits but none works.

        It's almost like you didn't even read the comment you're replying to.

        Why do you think that applying restrictions on someone who clearly is afraid/zoned out of life and escapes into TikTok will make them improve all of a sudden?

        Do you think that if she had something to look forward to, like a hobby or an interest at school, or felt secure, she would need to use TikTok all the time?

        She has anxiety and doesn't want to go to school, clearly something about school is the problem. Anxiety means either she is afraid or has no confidence in herself.

        Like mskeggs said, try talk to her like a human being, without criticism, and understand what she's going through. If those therapists didn't help either they weren't the right fit or maybe you didn't like a conclusion they came up with and kept finding one that would "fix her" your way.

        • trapper on 24/08/2023 - 12:55
          +1

          TikTok will make any problem worse though, so it's a good first step to get rid of that poison.

    • taradavey on 22/08/2023 - 15:36
      +32

      I agree with this comment about the deeper issues, and the battle of the phone increasing conflict.
      I haven't read most of the comment so I can't speak to anything anybody else is saying. But the phone isn't the cause of the problem. It wouldn't be helping, that's for sure. But it's not causing the problems. Tiktok isn't making her too anxious to go to school. It is an addictive app, but it isn't the cause. If she was perfectly mentally well, she would not be able ot get addicted to her phone in this way. A phone addiction is an addiction like any other - and by that I mean that it is more of a symptom of something else being wrong.

      Her not wanting to go anywhere on weekends - is it really that she is carsick? That might add to it but if there was something she wanted to do I'm sure she'd push through it. Not wanting to do anything enjoyable is also a symptom of depression. I am not qualified by any means, but laying in bed all day is not normal, even if she is doing it on her phone.

      You've mentioned therapists and psychiatrists (psychiatrist or psychologists?) not helping. Sounds like they have been sticking to only CBT therapy (Cognitive behavioural therapy) which works by giving you things to do to stop maladaptive mental health patterns. It's very well researched and has lots of clinical proof, but that doesn't mean that it's be the best therapy for everyone. Potentially you could talk to your GP about getting a refferal to a different type of psychologist? I have heard EMT works really well for some people. Otherwise, another therapist that is maybe a better match for her? I've had multiple different therapists who have each taught me different things, but none have matched me quite like my current therapist and the difference is astounding.

      For somebody who is suffering depression, getting out of bed and doing 30min of exercise is almost impossible. So I don't know if it's truly fair to blame the phone for her not doing that.

      Also - to have compassion for your 13 year old daughter, as I was once a 13 year old girl with mental health issues. It is absolute hell being a pubescent teenage girl with mental health issues, the mixture of hormones into a mentally unwell brain is catastrophic. I can tell how much of a difference hormones make to my mental health as it comes back to me in almost full force when on hormonal contraception. I have never been through tougher emotions than during those times. Even if absolutely everything looks fine in her life, she may be suffering deeply, she may have depression, is struggling with anxiety as you mentioned, and may have a lot of horrible things happening in her head that makes life really, really bloody hard.
      I used my phone to cope when I was her age. Sure, it's not good to build habits on these 'bad' things like phones, but without it I felt unneccessary anxiety. It didn't get in the way of my life like it appears hers is, but just as some context, for me taking it away would have made me significantly more mentally unwell, and all my coping mechanisms were in that phone (writing down how i felt, music, talking to friends).

      As another alternate perspective, I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult after years of being diagnosed with anxiety, depression, ocd, EDs, etc… and ADHD diagnosis has changed everything. One thing I struggle with is excecutive function, part of that is getting up and doing things. I can sit on my phone, scrolling, not really even fully aware of what I am seeing/doing for a very long time and not be able to make myself get up. Internally, I'm screaming at myself to get up, to "go do something productive", to go clean up this room or finish the dishes, to get off my phone because i really wanted to watch this tv show, or get off my phone because I wanted to go read a book. Whether it's a task I want to do or not, I can't get myself to get up and do it. I'll be constantly telling myself to get off my phone, and it's like a car with a flat battery just clicking over. But to somebody on the outside looking it, it looks like i'm just absorbed on my phone.
      These moments, when this is happening, is when I am not okay. My loved ones now know that. And the absolute worst thing someone can do when I am in those "not okay" moments, unable to get up although desperately want to? It's to get angry/frustrated/upset with me for being on my phone. However frustrated the person feels with me for being on my phone, I already feel 10x for not being able to get off my phone when I want to.
      Really long story short here, the phone is my current vessel for this happening. I couldn't even tell you half of what I would have watched on the phone in that time because i'm basically almost dissasociating. When I was younger and didn't have a phone I would zone out and be staring at a wall unable to get myself up to go.
      It was not depression, but a mental health issue nonetheless. I'm not suggesting your daughter has ADHD (you haven't given any information in the post that would suggest it but you haven't really given any information about her actions at all, just the phone thing. If you are up to it I would suggest maybe googling the symptoms of ADHD in young women as young women are much better at "masking" and hiding it, if they are 'innatentive' subtype the behaviour is different to stereotyped ADHD, and girls are very frequently misdiagnosed with anxiety when it is actually ADHD. The only reason I suggest you looking it up rather than relying on the medical professionals to figure it out, is that so rarely the medical professionals completely miss it in women due to the sterotypes and different presentation of symptoms in young girls) but just an alternate perspective to note.

      Tiktok will produce brief short bursts of happiness and it is absolutely addictive, but I can't imagine anybody doing nothing BUT being on their phone without underlying mental health issues causing it.

      Regardless, sorry for the absolutely massive comment, and I really, really hope you can find something that helps her not feel the need to be on her phone all the time, and hopefully relieve some of her anxiety. And I hope that none of my comment comes across as trying to diagnose or tell you what is wrong, I just wanted to provide some alternate insight.

      • mskeggs on 22/08/2023 - 17:53
        +9

        Thank you very much for this comment. I hope a lot of parents of teens read it.

      • bondy28 on 22/08/2023 - 22:59

        This is me for the most part. Thanks for the comment. It truly means a lot. I need to get myself diagnosed.

        • taradavey on 23/08/2023 - 08:19

          Thank you and @mskeggs for thanking me for the comment! Often this forum leads to lots of criticism for any opinion so I was very pleasantly surprised to see this haha.

          @bondy28, i wish you the best on your journey! I assume you're talking about ADHD here. If you're in Australia and would like any advice or just a basic rundown on how I got my diagnosis, feel free to send me an inbox! When googling information is really unclear so if you have any questions give me a shout :)

          • thepigs on 15/09/2023 - 13:50

            @taradavey: I'd be interested in how your life has changed after the diagnosis, if you don't sharing. eg. is it mostly being mindful that you're neuro-atypical?

            • taradavey on 12/12/2023 - 08:34

              @thepigs: Only just saw this comment after a notification, so my apologies for the super late reply!

              Medication has helped a little bit after diagnosis, but nothing groundbreaking. I've tried 3 different types and the one I'm currently on works okay, but has almost no negative side effects so it's been the best experience so far.

              Trying medication has been helpful as it has allowed me to see what my brain is like with a bit of assistance. It's most helpful for me for emotional regulation, and assisting me with starting tasks rather than being stuck in ADHD paralysis. It helps me reason with myself a little more. Rather than freaking out and being incredibly stressed about having a million, super urgent things to do that i'll never get time for (which is a constant for me with ADHD), it gives me a little bit of space to step back, write down everything I have to do, and be able to organize it in ways that are more efficient. Rather than my default which is just start them all, all at once, finish maybe one, and then freak out about the rest needing to be done haha.

              As for how the diagnosis has changed things excluding medication, 'being mindful that you're neuro-atypical' is definitely the majority of the benefit.

              Something that isn't often discussed unless you are in ADHD communities, and something that impacts me A LOT is the feeling of shame I have for not being able to do everything like a 'normal' person. Having an ADHD diagnosis has given me permission to give myself some grace.

              I have a very busy life (as we all do!), live alone and maintain a house alone, work 2 jobs and have a strength sport that I train in for several nights each week - so expecting myself to keep a perfect home is unrealistic in all situations.
              But on those nights where I've tried and tried to get myself up to wash up the dishes, and I can't (my 'dead car battery' response - You're turning the key and the car is trying and trying to start but something is just not clicking over!) instead of mentally bullying myself and feeling like a piece of trash human being who is pathetic and can't do anything and isn't even worth being alive, I can rely on this knowledge. I know that sounds dramatic, but the emotional disregulation definitely comes into play here, and it truly did feel that horrible in my own head in those situations before knowing this.

              I now feel like I can say to myself "Hey - you're tired. Your brain is done everything it can today, and this doesn't make you worth less as a person" - and I actually believe it.

              There is a lot more nuance in a lot of situations obviously, and this just directly talking about household chores and ADHD (Work and focus is a whole other ballpark! Haha) but as a generalisation - yes, it has given me the ability to give myself grace about not being 'perfect' because I know my brain works differently.

              And obviously - none of this 'needed' a diagnosis to happen. I didn't need to know that I had ADHD to not mentally abuse myself when I don't have the mental energy to complete things I have told myself I "should" do. But for me - without my diagnosis, I wasn't giving myself any leeway to be anything but perfect. My diagnosis has allowed me to feel like I don't have to be perfect.

              Hope that helped - if you were asking because you were unsure if you should look into a diagnosis, I wish you the best for the future!!

              And if OP happens to see this from a notification I really hope things have improved for your daughter and yourself!!

      • uzz30 on 23/08/2023 - 13:50
        +3

        Thank you for sharing your deeply personal experience. As a parent of two teen daughters you've helped me gain understanding of where they are in their lives. Your post is well thought out and written, thanks you.

      • MustardKetchup on 24/08/2023 - 09:34

        thankyou for expanding on CBT, thats not the CBT I know! had a good chuckle tho

      • TiredKitty78 on 24/08/2023 - 23:48

        Ha, my comment was much larger and much less concise. But yeah, as someone also with ADHD inattentive and depression/anxiety inclinations, reading through the lines a lot of that said to me 'girl' with ADHD to.

        And a parent that can't or doesn't want to see it. Maybe because 'she's just like i was, she just needs to do it'. And the parent may just have their own genuine limitations. But all i heard was i got her the help i was told to, she just needs to action action action. I didn't really hear emotional connection and reciprocity, if that makes sense? How has the parent helped her? What has she actually done?

  • Ocker on 21/08/2023 - 12:26
    +18

    Just cancel the phone service and then blame the telco

    • ashdays on 21/08/2023 - 12:26

      Ha ha ha. I like the way you think

    • onetwothreefour on 21/08/2023 - 12:49
      +1

      she'll still be able to use wifi at home

      • freefall101 on 21/08/2023 - 13:32
        +8

        that one is a lot easier to control though, pretty easy to stick a password on the router the kid doesn't know and just put a hard block on tiktok and VPNs.

      • Sinnerator on 22/08/2023 - 08:56
        +3

        just mac address limit her to dial up speeds

      • smartazz104 on 22/08/2023 - 10:27
        +1

        Cancel the internet service and blame the ISP.

    • daniesaurs on 24/08/2023 - 15:31

      +1 this, alternatively you can just switch it to a very low data plan/prepaid plan so that they are forced to manage their data usage. At home you can block access to certain sites on your router, some can even block access altogether at different times (physically you can too, my asian parents used to turn off the internet after 10pm to 'save power').

      Does anyone remember phone minutes and credit? I think prepaid is the best thing for them to time gate things.

      It won't stop them from going on the phone during school recess, lunch entirely but it'll slowly get them to do the majority of the things OP mentioned at home where it's better managed. Or at least they won't be able to spend all of recess and lunch on it otherwise they'll have to wait a whole nother month to top up and get more data.

  • bargaino on 21/08/2023 - 12:34

    Enable parental controls and "screen time". It is intended primarily for children, but works for teens too, up to 18yo.
    Good luck!!

    https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201304

    https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT208982

    • Protractor on 21/08/2023 - 16:08
      +1

      Parental controls need enabling, alright

  • onetwothreefour on 21/08/2023 - 12:50

    I like the way you can swear in a forum post but I'm sure comments with the same word will be censored

    her future will be (profanity)

    • AwesomeAndrew on 21/08/2023 - 13:03
      -3

      Freedom of speech is (profanity). Yeah not sure how this is a thing, had to edit my comment with strange characters to get swear words to not be censored.

      • bargaino on 21/08/2023 - 13:19
        +7

        Its hardly a "free speech" issue. It seems a bit silly to me , but will overlook as OzB has a very good record on freedom of speech where it matters. Unlike say Whirlpool, which does a lot of political censorship. And don't get me started on Reddit :)

        • cookie2 on 21/08/2023 - 21:59
          +3

          I got banned from a sub within 2 minutes just for asking someone to clarify how someone else was a bigot. Shortest stint on a social media ever.

        • smartazz104 on 22/08/2023 - 10:28

          which does a lot of political censorship

          What about swear words, which was the initial complaint?

  • onetwothreefour on 21/08/2023 - 12:55
    +5

    Hi OP, I feel for you, I have a 15 year old daughter who like most kids that age is constantly on her phone. Boundaries need to be set, mine knows that 9pm on school nights all devices are to be taken downstairs and not used anymore until the next day. She's not perfect and she does try to push the boundaries which has ended up in arguments and she does sometimes struggle with getting up on time but you just need to keep on going with it. In the long run it will be better for her to have learned these things at this age.

  • ihbh on 21/08/2023 - 13:02
    +16

    How did it get to this stage?

    Thanks for sharing; more reason for the rest of us parents to be wary. We've actively worked on this from when they were babies; my wife takes the kids out for at least 1+km walk every day and they are playing in the backyard, climbing trees, making chubby houses and forts, etc. or playing with Duplo, Lego, doing craft, making Roman shields, etc. They will be in their teens in a couple of years, but luckily screen time so far is only limited to a couple of Blueys/Peppas, each day, occasional World Cup match, BBC doco. No phones or tablets except to research sth with my wife there.

    • barge-in hunter on 21/08/2023 - 19:51
      +10

      making chubby houses

      I know it’s a typo, but the concept of fat shaming houses made me laugh. There’s definitely a C grade reality tv show in this

      • Loopholio on 22/08/2023 - 12:21

        I loath reality shows, but I would watch that. Hell, anyone would watch that.

    • FallaM on 23/08/2023 - 15:35
      +1

      How did it get to this stage

      12-15 is an awful time for like 90% of teenagers. There is a lot happening there.

  • AwesomeAndrew on 21/08/2023 - 13:09
    +3

    Consider installing parental controls on your router to block tiktok, and changing the mobile plan to one which is talk and text only if other options don't work. But you should give her an opportunity to change and say that she can continue using tiktok only if she gets up on time and goes to school every day.

  • Ozbar Gain on 21/08/2023 - 13:20
    +7

    You can use https://nextdns.io/. Its a DNS service that you can set up on your router or and on the specific device. You can create a different profile for each family member.
    With this, you can block entire services (like tiktok) and also set up a window of time in which to allow some services if you want.

    In my opinion, every family should have something like this as it allows you to also block mature sites, force youtube into restricted mode (mature content blocked, comments blocked).

    Sure, the kids may find a way around these services but we do what we can.

    But ultimately, you want the change to come from within and not be forced onto them with these sorts of systems. Good luck

  • CurlCurl on 21/08/2023 - 13:34
    +10

    You are the parent. Show some parental responsibility and take her phone away or, if you are paying for her phone cancel it.

    • stumo on 22/08/2023 - 18:49
      +3

      Yep our 13yo daughter got her phone taken off her for 2 years. After getting caught on tik tok when she knew damn well she wasnt allowed it.

      She got it back at 15yo. But it is locked down tighter than a proverbial to this day 16yo.

      Tik tok et al is cancer, especially for pre/teenage girls. I dont need to wait for the case studies or long term research. Even stevie wonder can see how damaging it is.

      Be her parent like you are supposed to be.

  • Daniel Plainview on 21/08/2023 - 14:06
    +13

    Just whatever you do, COMMIT to doing it - to start and then back down or water down because of bad behaviour will ONLY reinforce this as the way to get what she wants.

    It'll suck, she'll say bad things and act badly, but don't take the easy option to tap out - as you'll end up regretting it later and it'll make it that much worse to eventually get her to a better balance in her life.

    Better you fight the battle now over a phone than more serious matters later on. :-)

    • stumo on 23/08/2023 - 14:30

      Just whatever you do, COMMIT to doing it

      The one rule to rule them all.

  • Bman17 on 21/08/2023 - 14:10
    +4

    Talk to the school counsellor , I have engaged with the school counsellor for a similar issue. They know very well how to deal with the kids having this issue.
    and setup DNS as @Hy6Bo suggested.
    If she has anxiety, politely deal with her instead of being a stubborn parent.

  • spackbace on 21/08/2023 - 14:14
    +4

    I'd be stopping payment of her phone bills or credit, so she won't have mobile data, and putting restrictions in place through the router.

    If you do this, make sure you know where your phone is at all times etc, as she may seek to steal yours in retribution

    Ugh sounds like a hard road ahead tho

    • Protractor on 21/08/2023 - 16:12
      +1

      If she's like she is at 13, cutting the $$ will just push her to reach out to the nasty types and end up with a dodgy sim unknown to parents.
      Or cross a 'line' to get some $$ to get a sim.

      • spackbace on 21/08/2023 - 16:17

        Yeah nah, just because she's unruly doesn't mean she's free with her body

        • Protractor on 21/08/2023 - 16:51

          I didn't say a word about her body. (mind out of the gutter^)
          Teenagers of every generation can and do hang around with the wrong crowd and try anything from shoplifting,stealing (sometimes known as borrowing from a family member) to receiving 'hot' items is common.

  • KaTst3R on 21/08/2023 - 15:54
    +2

    Send her to a military camp…

    • TiredKitty78 on 24/08/2023 - 23:58

      Her at 30 years old: So now i hate my parents, and turns out when i took myself to the psych, i have ADHD/Other.

      For real. 13 was around the same time I went from 'kid being told to 'teen with expectations' and my ADHD started becoming more prominent…..to me as far as i could recognise, mostly looking back.

  • Protractor on 21/08/2023 - 16:02
    -2

    Aside from an induced coma for several years, I wish you luck.
    Parents think parenting by their kids peer expectation is a good idea and it's come home to roost.
    How long were teachers trying to limit phone use at school? How many parents/families spend more time being an interactive family ,rather than staring at a screen?

    Help via a forum for issues like this in todays world. LOL

  • trustnoone on 21/08/2023 - 16:12
    +1

    I think you already got most of the good advice from everyone regarding the phone being off and everything. My only addition is, don't forget to keep in mind that she's getting into teenage years and rebelling and all that stuff is part of it too. I think some parents forget that and wonder if they should've done x or y. But sometimes this is all part of it too lol.
    FWIW have you asked her if she wants to change things? And if so, what does she want to do?

  • plumro on 21/08/2023 - 16:55
    +16

    Nowadays, it appears that 90% of problematic child behavior stems from parental passivity rather than active course correction, as was observed in the previous generation. Parents sometimes go so far as to ignore or distance themselves from their children, resulting in the children acting out to seek attention. I engage directly with these troubled children and find that they respond positively when given proper time and attention.

    The responsibility for correction lies with the parents, who possess the capacity to actively address such undesirable behavior in a mature and reasonable manner. However, in this particular scenario, I would not personally tolerate any misbehavior and would opt to replace their smartphone with a basic model (such as the Nokia 8210). It's important to remember that as the bill payer, one also establishes the rules.

    In a broader context, if one aims to foster positive behavior, maintaining open communication with one's child and proactively negotiating agreements is crucial. Doing so beforehand can prevent explosive situations if significant changes are required later on. Additionally, dedicating a day or evening to electronics-free activities and regularly engaging in classic board games can be beneficial. I've initiated a practice where we dedicate time to engage in creative activities that don't involve electronics, such as art, LEGO, storytelling, and imaginative play. This approach aims to prevent their minds from becoming immersed in consumeristic tendencies.

    In my opinion, TikTok should be outright banned, as it is evidently detrimental to cognitive health.

    • Protractor on 21/08/2023 - 17:42
      -1

      Hard to parent when you're remodelling your brain and neck structure on a gadget.

      • sardines on 22/08/2023 - 08:10
        +2

        I dont use social media, well, except ozbargin. Not everything is modeling behaviour for teens.

    • sardines on 22/08/2023 - 08:08

      We did play board games, went swimming, music lessons and tried to give her agency in some situations for pocket money etc. It all just fell to shit around 13 when she just stopped going to school and used tiktok as a tool to manage her anxiety — To be fair there is alot of conflict in the background that planted the seeds of anxiety and rebellion.
      I understand where your coming from and trying to get tools from specilists to correct course.

      • danyool on 23/08/2023 - 22:40
        +1

        One piece of advice I read somewhere in trying to change kids behaviour was to say something like "I know we used to allow ABC, but now we realise we need to make a change. The new expectations are XYZ" - I dunno how it would actually work, and your situation is maybe a bit more involved

        All the best through this difficult time.

        I know this isn't an AMA - but I'm curious about a few details:
        - at what age did you give her the phone?
        - What grade is she in at school now? Year 8?
        - Did you have any limits on use at home before?
        - Other siblings? Older or younger?
        - "she just stopped going to school" - is this literally?? As in she doesn't go to school at all now, or misses a day here and there??

      • TiredKitty78 on 25/08/2023 - 01:09

        To be fair there is alot of conflict in the background that planted the seeds of anxiety and rebellion.

        "Seeds of Anxiety and rebellion"

        Sounds like the wordy bs my ADHD brain might produce since I - intentionally or not - tend to not be 'emotionally inclined'. And that perhaps you are using those words to 'emotional distance' from the issue. Though on the internet, i might think you picked those words to not say anything you feel might incriminate yourself or others.

        You say "my daughter is addicted to her phone, she's ruining her life".
        I hear "My 13 year old daughter is having issues in her first year of highschool. The school has MADE her go to "psychiatrists, therapists, paediatrician specialists" and thus i'm involved, and I'm focusing on her phone being the big issue even though our home/s are currently also in serious upheaval which IS adding to it".

        I though it was ADHD. And it might still be. Weirdly, it could straight up just be an actual addiction. But attendance officers? Like, show up at your house in the morning, taking your kid into the school, signing them in, and leaving when their butt is in the seat and they are the attending teachers problem? Ok, ok, at 13? What aren't you saying?

        First i thought, ok, straight up, that's about the same time my brother really spiralled and got into drugs. There were signs earlier…. Are you sure she's on it for tiktok? Or is that what you are being told? I thought, what behaviour is she suddenly displaying, what is she doing? Then for a second i wondered if i knew you. And i wondered are you in denial about what's been done to her? But i now realise you are a bloke. I don't know you. Still. Are you sure she hasn't or isn't being 'interfered' with? You hear some shit from social workers about what 13 year olds do and then just…go back to doing. What is she doing and who is she actually talking to on her phone?

        Look. I stand by my previous comments for the most part. But…i feel like you are….downplaying or ommitting a lot. But i have a hyper vigilent mind. i might be reading to much into it. But i skipped the phone checking stage of being a teenager. I would hate it a parent checking my phone, part of the reason why I don't even keep a diary now, the internet is a bit of a 'safe space' for me. But phones back in my day generally didn't bully me or hide a 50 year old pretending to be a 20 year old soliciting me, a potentially flattered 13 year old.

        Look, if you are going to get her a dumb phone, you need to be really honest to yourself - and possibly get a professional second opinion so you can better understand yourself and your choices. My thinking is that you are picking a symptom to pretend it's the problem. Or the punishment that will get her to obey - because be real, it's not really that you think she will magically change?

        The internet and smartphones are like some wild wild west in your pocket. I see how easily and how quickly young children start jonesing for a device in their hands, though you can redirect them. I wouldn't blame parents from severely limiting what kids/teens can do and access on their phones. But like limiting sugar, you should be managing access based on a healthy lifestyle, not a punishment. It's hard for you or other parents when almost any teen can root a phone, hide stuff from you. If it was me, yeah, i'd lock it down. But i know how. I'd root the phone, i'd do what i can to stop installation of unwanted apps, from them being side loaded, parental restrictions. I'm not sure there's a way i can stop the kids from just getting into the bootloader and completely factory resetting the phone? Or flashing a new rom? There is almost always a way.

    • larndis on 22/08/2023 - 09:19

      Source for your statistics?

  • TheRealCher on 21/08/2023 - 19:51
    +1

    Make her sit through rebel without a cause repeatedly until she understands that it will all end up very messy in an observatory looking over Los Angeles when her lover….wait …it used to be so much easier when kids could get life lessons from movies…maybe there's a tik tok?

  • [Deactivated] on 21/08/2023 - 19:58
    +4

    I suggest getting your daughter involved with sports or other activities to fill in the time that she would otherwise spend on her mobile/internet. If you know the parents of your daughter's friends, have a chat with them to see what how their teens are going. Your daughter may be more amenable to trying stuff if she has a friend also doing it with her.

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