Should OzBargain Hide/Cancel/Censor Merely Unpopular Views

GordonD on 26/08/2023 - 10:19

I once read an SF story that people put things in three categories:

  1. I like it
  2. I don't like it
  3. It should be banned.

As I get old I find I live in a society where increasingly things are banned. We used to love cracker night, for example. We knew it resulted in damage and injuries, but it was fun. I don't remember us ever being asked, but somehow it was banned. And these days just not liking views has increasingly resulted in them being banned. The cancel culture. And the punishment of those who defy it. We had a name for that. It was called bigotry. Denying other people the right to say or advocate things you disapprove of.

I have no problem with OzBargain, or any other publisher, censoring foul language, threats, intimidation and the like. But it annoys me greatly that it hides postings and the sometimes quite interesting discussions that follow simply on the basis of the + and - score of whether people place it in category 1 or 2. Whether they like or dislike it. Whether the majority agrees or disagrees with it.

I would remove the ability to neg other peoples comments. If you don't like what someone else has said, well, tough. The price of you having the right to say what you want is letting other people say what they want to. Limited only by decency and civility on the part of everyone. I would at least remove the effect of an accumulation of negative votes, so we could all see what views were and weren't popular, including our own.

Site Discussion

Comments

        • Ughhh on 01/09/2023 - 06:30

          So it's your understanding that it's either that, or just completely distrust everything =thinking for yourself.
          Do you ever question why 1+1=2? Or do you think so because it's what the gov told you?

  • jugsy on 28/08/2023 - 12:10
    +1

    This was a great laugh, thanks

  • Diji on 28/08/2023 - 12:23
    +1

    I would remove the ability to neg other peoples comments.

    And remove the traditional pastime of negging jv? We have a name for demanding things like that, my friend. Bigotry.

    • smartazz104 on 29/08/2023 - 09:31

      Then you would just upvote all comments except his.

  • Nalar on 28/08/2023 - 15:01
    +1

    "If you don't like what someone else has said, well, tough."

    Greate for opinons, bad for filtering out bad advice.

    • Serapis on 28/08/2023 - 18:27

      bad for filtering out bad advice

      Or deals in this instance

    • GordonD on 29/08/2023 - 09:57
      +1

      Greate for opinons, bad for filtering out bad advice.

      If a posting that is factually wrong, leaving it visible gives people who can provide a convincing argument that its wrong to reply and inform everyone why it is. If a posting is right, but a lot of people are uninformed and neg it, its gone, and the majority stays happily ignorant and misinformed.

  • based on 28/08/2023 - 15:06

    I would remove the ability to neg other peoples comments. If you don't like what someone else has said, well, tough.

    Well then you're going to hate what the hide button under comments does

  • frugalftw on 28/08/2023 - 15:32

    It is a minor censorship issue, but you learn to unhide it overtime, annoying on a small screen because it’s hard to click. For those who speak up tho, I’m sure there’re no (profanity) given to the number of negative votes; it but serves as a reminder that agreeability should not be a block to what you feel is the right thing to say and do 🫣

  • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 19:23
    +6

    How about a sook button.

    • GrueHunter on 28/08/2023 - 20:22
      -1

      thanks, spat Vitabrits on my shirt

      • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 09:57

        Wash your mouth out! It's un-a -Strayan
        Eat Weetbix. Or better yet, the Aldi dupes .

  • Kamsi on 28/08/2023 - 22:32

    hides postings and the sometimes quite interesting discussions that follow simply on the basis of the + and - score of whether people place it in

    Tell that to the whingpool mod not to ban people for purely this reason. Ozbargain on the other hand also bans people from continue participating on that particular discussion. It sad but that what you called partial free of speech in Australia forums.

    • gakko on 29/08/2023 - 15:05

      Free speech = a privately owned website can delete stuff if they want. Nothing wrong with that.

      • Kamsi on 29/08/2023 - 15:47

        You're correct ============ which is why I said partial free of speech.

  • Willy Beamish on 28/08/2023 - 22:34
    +2

    For starters just because something is unpopular doesn't mean its wrong. People in general are just dumb and will downvote correct things because they don't agree with it or don't like being told they are wrong.

    Censorship in general is terrible outside of extreme circumstances for example content that encourages or promotes pedophilia, but I think most of us normal people can agree on that.

    Places like reddit are terrible for actual discussions merely because it's based on the how many people can you get to upvote X and how many people can you get to downvote X and not on the merits of it's actual content.

    • RefusdClassification on 29/08/2023 - 03:46
      +1

      Yes, on Reddit you have to be very careful about what you say and where you say it. To be able to post on some subreddits requires a decent amount of +ive hkarma. You have to say what people what to hear (which is often very different from the truth). I am an eccentric individualist, so I very well understand the tyranny of the majority.

      On OzBargain, downvotes should be disable and only positive votes registered. It is like this on Youtube and SMH, for instance.

  • ldq on 28/08/2023 - 23:04
    -3

    I suspect the demographics of OzB are somewhat skewed in favour of younger, inner city population with Asians overrepresented. Obedient and fearful, virtuous and passively aggressive.

    • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 09:59

      Don't worry, there's obviously a fair swag of the exact opposite demograph here as well, judging by the comment content.

    • MessyG on 29/08/2023 - 10:22
      +2

      Funny I always thought it was skewed towards the overtly racist but here we are…

      • ldq on 29/08/2023 - 20:19
        -2

        Here we are indeed, the votes to our comments are a good judge of who's the majority, who's in charge here. You can drill down into my comment history and see how heavily I have been downvoted most of the time over my comments around covid tyranny. Or think about the default muzzled profile pic that lasted for how long - over a year? That was one of the more sickening and extremely symbolic covid virtue signals that was totally voluntary, disgusting obsequiousness that was apparently well received by the core cohort.

      • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 17:34
        -1

        and gen z sooks WFH

  • DingoBilly on 29/08/2023 - 07:48

    You can just show the posts as others have said.

    The reason why those posts are hidden and why it's an issue is because it drives people away who are being insulted/hurt by these posts. And then it starts being more acceptable to say things that are just racist/bigoted, which drives more people away until you get an echo chamber of extreme views.

    If you're not affected - then of course you just think it's people complaining and why are people impinging on your speech. It's only once you are actually affected do you realize the issues.

    I'd suggest reading up a bit on it to understand why it's harmful to certain groups. At the moment you're the equivalent of the rich boomer with 5 houses saying why are people complaining about house prices.

    Of course, sometimes people are just down voted for no reason/for a laugh, but in general most of the time a heavily down voted post is just mindless drivel like anti-vaccine conspiracies or similar.

  • ForkSnorter on 29/08/2023 - 08:02

    This is off-topic, but anyway…

    When I was a kid, cracker night was the most exciting night of the year. It wasn't so much the firecrackers themselves, but the anticipation and imagination that preceded the event. I used to dream about it for months before it happened. Seeing a bag of firecrackers in the store was equally exciting. It was like seeing a bag of magic from the Middle Ages. It was so pleasurable to imagine what was inside. Then it all just disappeared and I forgot about it. I guess nowadays it would not excite me very much, but I can still remember the feeling of intense anticipation that made that time of the year magical.

    ForkSnorter on 29/08/2023 - 08:02 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
  • ForkSnorter on 29/08/2023 - 08:13

    Not sure exactly how relevant it is to this discussion, but in my opinion Sam Harris has absolutely nailed this discussion of narcissism and shamelessness in public figures.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/08/2023 - 08:47
    +3

    Boomer post indeed. The internet was better when most boomers didn't know how to use computers apart from starting up solitaire.

    • infinite on 29/08/2023 - 09:08

      Boomers were the only people on the internet when it kicked off.

      • [Deactivated] on 29/08/2023 - 09:16

        It was a fraction of them. By the time discussion forums and chat rooms started becoming popular it was mostly their kids. Many boomers in these spaces by then were also they type that were on Chris Hansen's show.

    • GordonD on 29/08/2023 - 09:42
      -2

      The internet was better when most boomers didn't know how to use computers

      We invented computers.

      • [Deactivated] on 29/08/2023 - 09:43
        +3

        We invented computers.

        You bullied the tiny subset of you that invented or were even interested in computers. (That's ignoring the fact that the 1st computer was invented in 1822 with subsequent major developments in 1991 and had f*** all to do with boomers to begin with, lol)

    • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 10:00
      -3

      Yeah, They should have sterilised boomers to stop the intellectual rot popping up in future generations .

        • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 10:32
          +1

          Why would it matter to the ppl who wouldn't exist?

            • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 10:39
              +1

              @Roryty: Let me help you.
              If a tree falls in the forest….

                • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 10:55
                  -2

                  @Roryty: A Boomer invention is a boomer invention. You are getting desperate with your reasons to deny reality.

  • Hvrd on 29/08/2023 - 09:05
    +1

    people want to have a box around their head and only hear their own views

    • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 10:03

      Works for Trump & Musk.

      (Although I'd like to see that upcoming cage fight where Musky baby gets his head 'boxed' into hamburger mince.)

      • Willy Beamish on 01/09/2023 - 20:29

        Trump and Musk both value freedom of speech though, they weren't the ones going on campaigns like twitter/Facebook etc banning certain views.

        Unless I'm misunderstanding what you were saying.

        • Protractor on 01/09/2023 - 20:53

          They value free speech or are sociopaths? Think about that.
          Let's put it this way. America is about to elect or not elect Trump again. Which is the best nightmare scenario?
          (I don't think America can survive either outcome)
          &
          Musk value free speech? Hahaha, so he can accuse a real 'man' , a valid hero of being a pedo?
          Those two men have abused free speech , and made money via unadulterated bullshit.
          Trump pardons criminals who betrayed the US constitution,law and moral values.
          Luckily there is a world full of hollow headed automatons willing to swallow whatever they say. Look at the grovelling obsequious sycophancy around Trump. They are what you get when you such every ounce of dignity and pride from a human body.

          • Willy Beamish on 01/09/2023 - 21:43
            +1

            @Protractor: Trump reelection would be the best outcome IMO, way too much corruption as it currently sits and having different standards based on what political faction you subscribe to is never good for anyone.

            Everything they've gone after Trump for has been nothing but political, you'd think if they had anything on him it would have been outed by now but they've tried to fabricate everything against him and come up empty handed every single time. Everything they are accusing him of doing you can point to democrats that have done the exact same thing, it's purely projection and it's literally always the case. They are scared of Trump because he's not bought and paid for like every other democrat.

            As for Musk, he can do whatever he likes within the bounds of the constitution and the law, if he believes what he's saying then no issue with him saying it as it still falls under the first amendment. Now if he didn't believe what he was saying and still said it, that would be defamation and should be dealt with appropriately. As far as I've seen he's still a strong supporter of free speech as any rational person should be.

            I think your view of Trump and Musk is a little off base but fair enough, no one said they are perfect but they certainly aren't the boogeyman that mainstream media have painted him(Trump) as for the last 7 years or so.

            Edit: not sure who downvoted you and didn't comment but here's a plus one to bring you back up.

  • Flying Ace on 29/08/2023 - 09:41
    +2

    I would remove the ability to neg other peoples comments. If you don't like what someone else has said, well, tough. The price of you having the right to say what you want is letting other people say what they want to. Limited only by decency and civility on the part of everyone. I would at least remove the effect of an accumulation of negative votes, so we could all see what views were and weren't popular, including our own.

    Negative votes are not only because you don't like something, it can also show to others that the information in that particular comment is incorrect. You can still see negative-voted comments, so I'm not sure what the problem is?

    • MessyG on 29/08/2023 - 10:24

      The problem is they don't like being negged and want to censor the ability to do so. "Blame them for which you are guilty" and all that.

      • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 10:30
        -1

        "Blame them for which you are guilty"

        Works for Trump & Musk. Especially Trump. He has the world bluffed. His greatest enabler (Tucker Carlsson) is an overt Putin fan

        • MessyG on 29/08/2023 - 21:30
          -2

          Trump is a Mein Kampf fan, tracks that he would use Goebbels playbook.

          • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 22:03
            +1

            @MessyG: Shows how stupid the populous of America are.
            The greatest cause of death of kids in that shithole is gun violence
            And he is the leader of the charge enabling it

            Here's what a surgeon dealing with this nightmare has to say>
            “Two children, whose bodies had been pulverised by bullets fired at them, decapitated, whose flesh had been ripped apart, that the only clue as to their identities were the blood-spattered cartoon clothes still clinging to them, clinging for life and finding none,” he told politicians in June.

            “Making sure our children are safe from guns, that’s the job of our politicians and leaders. In this case, you are the doctors and the country is the patient. We are lying on the operating table, riddled with bullets like the children of Robb Elementary and so many other schools. We are bleeding out, and you are not there.

            “My oath as a doctor means that I signed up to save lives. I do my job, and I guess it turns out that I am here to plead, to beg, to please, please do yours.”

            FROM>
            https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/not-ac…

            • Willy Beamish on 02/09/2023 - 00:28
              +1

              @Protractor: A little too much narrative pushing there maybe, probably why they had to include people that aren't actually children in those numbers to boost up their fear mongering headlines. You can find those stories everywhere, not that it's a good thing to hear but it's certainly not as bad as they make it out to be just to push an agenda.

              • Protractor on 02/09/2023 - 09:05
                -1

                @Willy Beamish: Oh yes it's all fine and dandy.You must be right in Trumps wheel room. Apologist for his toxicity dressed as free speech and this brush off?
                It's perverse how adults can seriously look at the carnage in America and come up with excuses and justifications. I for one am looking fwd to the CF over there. All Trumps supporters can fly home to fight his civil war.I wonder where the troops controlling the NT will go? Back home to fight their country, or stay here and push us around?

                • Willy Beamish on 02/09/2023 - 23:55
                  +2

                  @Protractor: Seems like you're a little too radicalised dude, just relax a little.

                  • Protractor on 03/09/2023 - 09:21
                    -1

                    @Willy Beamish: "Trump & Musk value free speech" he says
                    then
                    " I'm radicalised?? "

                    Okayy

                    • Willy Beamish on 03/09/2023 - 12:21
                      +1

                      @Protractor: Ever consider you might be wrong?

                      • Protractor on 03/09/2023 - 12:24
                        -2

                        @Willy Beamish: That Trump and Musk are socipaths and his supporters are easily deluded and need help? Nope. Not for a nana second

                        • Willy Beamish on 03/09/2023 - 12:37
                          +2

                          @Protractor: That's a pretty terrible stance to have and not very healthy.

                          • Protractor on 03/09/2023 - 13:17
                            -1

                            @Willy Beamish: OK. Lets see where America heads, shall we?
                            And where that drags the world

                            • Willy Beamish on 03/09/2023 - 16:29
                              +1

                              @Protractor: Biden has done such a good job as it is high inflation, high illegal immigration, war in Ukraine, all with 10% for the big guy.

                              • Protractor on 03/09/2023 - 16:30
                                -2

                                @Willy Beamish: Mate let it go. You are backing a gutless wonder

                                • Willy Beamish on 03/09/2023 - 20:38
                                  +1

                                  @Protractor: No comment on anything I mentioned? Not surprised, you will probably just say it's all Trump's fault anyway.

                                  • Protractor on 03/09/2023 - 20:49
                                    -3

                                    @Willy Beamish: Oh your fanciful imaginary Biden driven problems? Let's see>

                                    Inflation is global.
                                    The planet is bursting at the seams with too many humans. They flee the shit holes they live in every day.
                                    America is a honeypot for crime,death and corruption. They need soldiers. Borders crossers are suitable canon fodder for the coke peddling ,consuming criminal scum prolific in America. I was unaware the Ukraine war was Bidens fault.
                                    Given Putins greatest fan is Trump and his enabler Tucker Carlson lerves old Vlad.
                                    Your capitalist hero, in his capitalist swamp, has you waste deep + hook+ line +sinker +rod+ boat…
                                    Or you are making $$ from the mess

                                    • Gervais fanboy on 03/09/2023 - 22:16

                                      @Protractor: Wow
                                      You are not all there are you…

                                      • Willy Beamish on 05/09/2023 - 20:27

                                        @Gervais fanboy: Yeah that guy appears to be a bit of a nutter unfortunately. Definitely not a healthy mentality, maybe he'll come around eventually.

                                        • Gervais fanboy on 05/09/2023 - 20:41

                                          @Willy Beamish: Yeah I doubt that

                                          Mate used to go around calling people racists for merely disagreeing with him..

  • xdigger on 29/08/2023 - 12:18
    +2

    The new Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) bill will soon do that for you. This new anti-democratic law will give the government unfettered control over public narrative. We can speculate why the feds have not brought fellow Aussie Julian Assange back from US imprisonment for essentially telling the world the truth about US war crimes in Afghanistan, but Assange's Wikileaks website would almost certainly be shut down by this new ACMA bill for spreading 'misinformation'.

    https://humanrights.gov.au/about/news/opinions/why-misinform…

    • Protractor on 29/08/2023 - 12:45
      -1

      And it would be shut down at Americas direct orders, not by way of us (Australia) 'deeming' the content misinformation.
      Our arse is owned.
      I think it needs to said there's a difference between deliberate and socially destructive lies (dressed as free speech) and agendas , and peoples views and opinions.
      The word 'democratic' has lost it's shine since Trump used litigation to game his own laws,govt and constitution.
      Ironically I wonder how Assange would have fared had he been active in the Trump era? Hero or villain?
      I'm comfortable giving the ACMA laws a chance, but I would have liked to see a sunset clause for a strategic review and more oversight and input by the Law Society et al.

  • tasty-falafel on 29/08/2023 - 18:57

    Also how about we remove the (profanity) profanity filter? Hell, the word (profanity) is pretty much engrained into Australian culture - I don't see why it's such an issue to be shown in writing.

    • Protractor on 01/09/2023 - 20:56

      (profanity!) yeah

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