Should OzBargain Hide/Cancel/Censor Merely Unpopular Views

GordonD on 26/08/2023 - 10:19

I once read an SF story that people put things in three categories:

  1. I like it
  2. I don't like it
  3. It should be banned.

As I get old I find I live in a society where increasingly things are banned. We used to love cracker night, for example. We knew it resulted in damage and injuries, but it was fun. I don't remember us ever being asked, but somehow it was banned. And these days just not liking views has increasingly resulted in them being banned. The cancel culture. And the punishment of those who defy it. We had a name for that. It was called bigotry. Denying other people the right to say or advocate things you disapprove of.

I have no problem with OzBargain, or any other publisher, censoring foul language, threats, intimidation and the like. But it annoys me greatly that it hides postings and the sometimes quite interesting discussions that follow simply on the basis of the + and - score of whether people place it in category 1 or 2. Whether they like or dislike it. Whether the majority agrees or disagrees with it.

I would remove the ability to neg other peoples comments. If you don't like what someone else has said, well, tough. The price of you having the right to say what you want is letting other people say what they want to. Limited only by decency and civility on the part of everyone. I would at least remove the effect of an accumulation of negative votes, so we could all see what views were and weren't popular, including our own.

Site Discussion

Comments

  • mbck on 26/08/2023 - 10:26
    +46

    Tbf, firecrackers can fly to a neighbor's property and hurt them or destroy their property. So you might accept that risk, but someone else might not.

      • mbck on 26/08/2023 - 12:06
        +65

        Pretty sure I never said any of that. I just wrote about firecrackers.

        Maybe instead of worrying things being banned, you should read things more carefully instead.

          • onetwothreefour on 26/08/2023 - 12:29
            +27

            @AustriaBargain:

            We used to love cracker night

          • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 13:05
            +3

            @AustriaBargain: Old boomer Gordon was banging on earlier about firecracker night.

            • Speckled Jim on 27/08/2023 - 09:11
              +4

              @Muzeeb: We X-ers also enjoyed cracker night. In fact, the dimmer ones probably helped get them banned.

          • terrys on 27/08/2023 - 12:00
            +1

            @AustriaBargain:

            if it isn't to illustrate any kind of point relating to anything OP said.

            As in the thirty-three words in the second and third sentence in the OP's second paragraph?

            Done.

            What was your complaint again?

          • GoIdDigger on 29/08/2023 - 12:34

            @AustriaBargain: Must be nice to be gaslit and then downvoted into oblivion. I wonder what the Ozbargain equivalent of a Reddit Moment is, because this is it

            • AustriaBargain on 29/08/2023 - 13:31
              -1

              @GoIdDigger: I'd be disappointed if I don't at least make the top 10 most downvoted comments each month.

      • GregRust on 28/08/2023 - 12:56
        +1

        I can see exactly where you stopped reading the original post.

      • Charmoffensive on 28/08/2023 - 13:24
        -1

        Are you saying that mere words can somehow hurt other people, so the words and the person saying the words should be banned to preserve other people's feelings?

        Yes? this is why abuse and discrimination aren't legal. we don't have freedom of speech in australia. If you want to find out what a shit society that makes for, go live in America.

    • lunchbox99 on 26/08/2023 - 13:28
      +3

      That's ridiculous. It's so unlikely it would never happen
      https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/rvbjg2/guy_sets_o…

    • ozbjunkie on 27/08/2023 - 12:35
      +3

      It's also difficult to maintain a medical system which will perform small digit surgery at no cost to the patient in a place that allows people to play with explosives during drunken celebrations.

      • p3nf0ld on 27/08/2023 - 22:16

        I was on placement with an opthalmologist and we still saw quite a few cases of Eye vs Fire Cracker (=blindness)

    • Assburg on 28/08/2023 - 20:18

      You're still liable, so this is a foolish argument. If my neighbours had to accept every risk I take, I probably wouldn't enjoy life too much.

      Or.. Maybe you though it's better just to swipe tiktoks and not expose anyone else to any sort of risk i guess.

      • mbck on 28/08/2023 - 20:25
        -1

        Huh?

        You can do anything you want, but if you damage someone or someone else's property, you are liable.

        You can act 'cool' and take as much risk as you want. Once you hurt or damage something, then be prepared to 'enjoy' the consequences of your action.

        I mean let people enjoy their tiktok, as long as they're not hurting you. But then again, comming from someone who suggest they break check people…lots of weird people out there!

        • Assburg on 28/08/2023 - 21:14

          Its silly to ban things that most people want to do if in the relatively low chance someone gets hurt, the person responsible is still liable anyway.

          The concept of social utility is increasingly narrow, though.

          • lateralus45 on 29/08/2023 - 08:48
            +2

            @Assburg: Someone being liable doesn't give someone back an eye or replace their irreplaceable possessions once their house burns down.

            • Assburg on 29/08/2023 - 10:22

              @lateralus45: Then go and fight the battles that make a difference:

              Take sports cars/high powered vehicles off the road and outlaw drinking.

  • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 10:30
    +19

    But it annoys me greatly that it hides postings

    Adjust the settings in your account.

    • Moderatorscotty on 26/08/2023 - 10:42

      Rather than the settings page, click on the 3-dots menu at the bottom of the page, and make sure "Show low-voted threads" is ticked:

      Low Voted Threads

      Then all comments will be shown regardless of votes.

      • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 10:47
        +16

        More importantly let's give OP the challenge of upvoting your response scotty.

        • GordonD on 26/08/2023 - 11:30
          +11

          Is there a setting that allows me to upvote a moderator?

          • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 11:43
            +1

            @GordonD: When you find it let us all know.

          • pegaxs on 26/08/2023 - 22:17
            +25

            @GordonD: Yes, but you need to be an OzBargain Premium member. But only other members can see them.

            As an OzBargain Premium member, you also get free use of the anonymiser account for your comments you think will get negged to oblivion and it will just change your username to “jv” for that one post.

            Totally worth the 6 Eneloops a month it cost.

            • terrys on 27/08/2023 - 12:05

              @pegaxs: So you're not in the group jv supplies the eneloops too to encourage *&^%$#NO CARRIER!

            • ChatCPT on 28/08/2023 - 10:47
              +1

              @pegaxs: Premium members also get unlimited comment neg votes as opposed to the standard 5/day

              But theycan only upvote a deal 5 times as opposed to standard 1

      • capslock janitor on 26/08/2023 - 23:24
        +1

        i dont see that hamburger+option on desktop ?

        • Guybrush57 on 27/08/2023 - 23:41
          +3

          Hamburger? Do you lay 3 rissoles horizontally then clasp them, take a bite, and call that a hamburger?

        • pformag on 28/08/2023 - 10:25
          +1

          I found it. Its floating in the middle-bottom of the page It is 4 Square Boxes. Up Arrow, Three Dots, Left Arrow and Right Arrow

      • pformag on 28/08/2023 - 10:23

        edit. found it

      • rumblytangara on 28/08/2023 - 20:04

        Here's a question about hiding things: I can choose to ignore specific users, but then half the page is dedicated to replies to that user's inanity. If I wanted this sort of material, I'd read the marketing spiel on the back of my cornflakes box.

        Is there a way to hide both the user comment and all replies to that user's comments?

    • tessel on 27/08/2023 - 17:54
      +1

      But why hide by default? That's what I think is important here.

        • kiriakoz on 28/08/2023 - 13:34
          +1

          Whenever I see your comments, I always think "Gervais would think this guy is a bigger tit than even I do"

          • Gervais fanboy on 28/08/2023 - 15:22
            -1

            @kiriakoz:

            Gervais would think this guy

            Says the ‘Tit’ that thinks Gervais would give two F’s about what you and I think..

            Also, unlike yourself I don’t subscribe to group identities, my thoughts and believes are my own but you’d rather I align myself to someone i have in my username,
            Also, he’s a comedian/actor first you know. I can like his art without having to agree with every bloody thing he says.
            I have had dozens of libs comment the same thing that you have just said. Typical 🐑🐑

            Now go ahead leave a neg and god forbid never actually discuss or argue any points.

            • kiriakoz on 28/08/2023 - 17:49
              +2

              @Gervais fanboy: You're the sheep, which is exactly what Ricky rails against. His art largely rails against your exact type of thinking. I love how your reaction to me pulling you up on it is to attack me despite knowing nothing about me and accusing me of being a 'lib' despite not enquiring about my world view on anything…. exactly the kind of thing Gervais would rail against too.

              Now jog on mate.

              • Gervais fanboy on 28/08/2023 - 17:58
                -5

                @kiriakoz:

                which is exactly what Ricky rails against

                Who gives a F’k
                Why you telling me that? Told you already I don’t care about his politics. You literally can’t separate someone’s profession from their politics, can you?

                If you have something to say, grow a pair and say it. Let’s have a debate. Keep bringing up Gervais lol

                pulling you up

                You didn’t pull me up on anything, you resorted to name calling instantly.
                Moreover, 2 comments in and you clearly lack the minerals to even voice your own opinions.
                You rather sneakily veiled that by telling me what a multi millionaire comedian might think of me.

                accusing me of being a 'lib' despite

                Open your eyes and re-read what I wrote.
                I said I have had dozens of libs parrot the same things you are saying. Then I said typical 🐑
                You should have checked with me if I included you in that ‘Typical’ category.

                Now jog on mate.

                You came and replied to me, wasn’t the other way around.

  • brendanm on 26/08/2023 - 10:53
    +4

    Just change it so you can see the posts that have been negged, it click the little button to expand them.

    • CurlCurl on 26/08/2023 - 11:11
      +2

      Please neg this comment so OP can try out these amazing high tech features above.

      Done.

      • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 11:25
        +5

        All your great work and someone gave a positive. FFS. 😃

        • CurlCurl on 26/08/2023 - 11:27
          +3

          All your great work and someone gave a positive. FFS.

          Gave you another one.

        • donga100 on 26/08/2023 - 11:39
          +8

          Even with my Platinum membership I still only get 10 neg votes per day. Can't be wasting them on stuff like this.

          • DashCam AKA Rolts on 26/08/2023 - 13:36

            @donga100: If I hadn't accidentally cancelled my platinum membership whilst trying to get out of paying Kogan after the free trial……

            • Domingo on 27/08/2023 - 22:56
              +1

              @DashCam AKA Rolts: The trick is to just threaten to go to the ACCC supported by a MS paint diagram. Got me my life time free diamond encrusted platinum membership.

              I won't be posting a receipt tho

    • GordonD on 26/08/2023 - 11:43

      OP will be busy this weekend catching up on all those interesting threads that he thought had disappeared forever due to cancel culture.

      Actually so far I've been searching for either the setting or the "3-dots meanu at the bottom of the page", and can find neither.

      • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 11:43
        +1

        Are you on mobile or desktop? Are you blocking JavaScript or similar?

        • GordonD on 26/08/2023 - 11:52

          Ah, found the … menu at the bottom of the page. Sometimes its there. Sometimes its not. But what clicking on those boxes is meant to do is so terse its incomprehensible unless you already know what it means.

          • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 11:57
            +6

            @GordonD: The up arrow takes you to the top like any get webpage does. The left and right arrows navigate to new, unread posts. It's bloody awesome and definitely not rocket surgery.

            • GordonD on 26/08/2023 - 13:09
              -5

              @Muzeeb: Anything that needs explanation for users to know what it does is badly designed or implemented.

              Jerry Pournelle said it:
              Code is created by very bright and very arrogant people who have minimal contact with their customers or, for that matter, the world in general. Customer satisfaction isn't at the top of a real programmer's list of goals; at least, customer satisfaction per se isn't. Programmers strive for a kind of elegance, which, if they can achieve it — often they can't — will automatically generate satisfaction in the customers who can appreciate what they have done. Other customers don't really matter. It's not that customer satisfaction isn't important, it's that the standard customer doesn't understand the difficulties, or why things have to be done a certain way, and won't appreciate clever solutions, hacks, and kludges. The bottom line is that most programmers write for other programmers.

              I wrote that quote down because I used to be a programmer. "Awesome ideas" are no use if no-one else knows they're there.

              • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 14:07
                +1

                @GordonD: What did you think the box of icons did?

              • Speckled Jim on 27/08/2023 - 09:18
                +1

                @GordonD: '#Metoo, in a previous life.

                But, y'know, the comments within were meant to nod & wink to other code monkeys. Problem was, hardly anyone used them properly, if at all!

              • terrys on 27/08/2023 - 12:14

                @GordonD: I don't really need a display of the engine and drive-train internals when I'm driving to the shops, however if the designer of the gear train wants recognition and appreciation, there are plenty of art galleries who welcome "installations".

                There's a nice one at the end of Quake II:-)

            • DashCam AKA Rolts on 26/08/2023 - 13:38
              +1

              @Muzeeb: It's brain science.

            • terrys on 27/08/2023 - 12:07

              @Muzeeb: I even found it all by myself.

    • CocaKoala on 27/08/2023 - 23:55

      Sorry, can't waste a neg.

    • Diji on 28/08/2023 - 12:24

      Negged for not giving me a cheap monitor

    • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 11:42
      +17

      I'm pretty sure it's done to declutter the stuff that most people here don't give a rats about. It takes half a second to bring up the information you are after.

      • leiiv on 26/08/2023 - 11:56
        -1

        The second it gets hidden with few negs, it already creates unfairness because most people will just miss that and therefore it already has less chance to be up voted. And most of sensible people aka the silent majority will probably don't bother much giving an up vote for not-so-important stuff.

        • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 12:01
          +6

          How can they miss that? The post is still there with an explanation as to why it's not fully visible and even a button to make it visible.

          • cookie2 on 26/08/2023 - 23:12
            -1

            @Muzeeb: If you don't get it, you just don't get it. Though i think the explanation was quite clear and I wouldn't say it's rocket science.

        • terrys on 27/08/2023 - 12:19

          Is this another of those -" Why are people ignoring this important factor regarding this trivial subject?" questions, like a referenda that will change everything that we should vote no too because it doesn't do anything so is a waste of time?

      • Baysew on 08/09/2023 - 18:23

        I'm pretty sure it's done to declutter the stuff

        Yes, it's the Marie Kondo function - discarding anything that doesn’t spark joy.

    • Baysew on 26/08/2023 - 11:48
      +9

      The OzBargain way of user choice is still way better than your initial proposal -

      But it annoys me greatly

      You don't like it. - (1)

      I would remove the ability to neg other peoples comments

      It should be banned. - (3)

    • leiiv on 26/08/2023 - 11:50
      -4

      And here it is, someone already neg this comment. And for what reason? Is it just for an amusement?

      • terrys on 27/08/2023 - 12:23

        People get five a day.

        Please consider.

        The negs slow down over time, as people actually have to consciously choose to expose your post to read and 'neg' it, something some may consider a feature rather than a bug.

        And no, I didn't, I hold onto mine just in case jv is trying to collect them that day. No-one challenges the King.

    • morse on 27/08/2023 - 09:08
      +5

      People aren’t going to like or engage with your opinions more if they are made to see them.

    • Lil0leMe on 27/08/2023 - 10:09

      Yeah I agree, will change my settings as mentioned above though.

      On my peev list of brands that are guilty of this, OZB is admittedly not high up. However, I'm surprised this discussion hasn't garnered more agreement that this practise is counterproductive.

      Censorship doesn't bother people?

      • HelpMeiCantSee on 27/08/2023 - 10:51
        +4

        Censorship does bother me greatly indeed, but not in this case.

        On this site, mostly it serves to declutter outrageous or shitty opinions. They’re still present and available, just not in your face.

        Personally, I use the feature as a way to seek out interesting discourse or “against the grain” views and ideas. Or just to have a laugh at the idiocy and delusion of some.

        The fact that negs are tightly restricted helps in them being used appropriately

      • terrys on 27/08/2023 - 12:24

        I'm surprised this discussion hasn't garnered more agreement th

        Some would regard that as data worth considering…

    • terrys on 27/08/2023 - 12:16
      +1

      our settings to assume we don't want to hear unpopular views

      the presumption

      Oh, the ironing.

    • greater mimic on 28/08/2023 - 14:30

      Ozbargain is probably one of the best sites to follow a discussion in because all the crap is filtered out by default and can be visible by clicking a button.

      It's pretty good design and I don't think anyone else has a problem with it

  • leiiv on 26/08/2023 - 11:46
    -8

    I have always argued here that hiding comments should only be justified in cases of:
    1) Out of topic and illegible writings, 2) Foul languages and Personal attacks, 3) Misleading and incorrect facts.

    Unfortunately some vocal people take things too personally and like to shut off differing opinions or to vote just for their amusement.
    I think negative voting for comments should be removed.

    • No ONE on 28/08/2023 - 17:51
      +1

      That just creates too much moderation and time& effort. Collapsing comments with more negs is easily done by rule.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 26/08/2023 - 11:51
    +27

    Why are upvotes unlimited but negs capped at 5 daily. Unlimited for both thanks

    • Switchblade88 on 26/08/2023 - 11:54
      +16

      Username checks out

    • Muzeeb on 26/08/2023 - 11:58
      +9

      Because there are members here who would abuse the feature. Ask me how I know.

      • Guybrush57 on 27/08/2023 - 23:44
        +3

        How do you know?

    • AustriaBargain on 26/08/2023 - 11:59
      +12

      I wanna see Double Downvote Tuesdays, where we can each downvote a comment two times.

    • Nousernamehere on 26/08/2023 - 12:38
      +8

      I’ve bought this up before and never got a reply about it.

      In deals I can see why there is a negative vote cap due to it taking away negative deal votes. In the forums though it should be unlimited, or vastly increased to something like 20.

      The amount of cooker posts which all come out of the woodwork to certain topics is ridiculous at times. If there’s unlimited positive votes allowed then the same should be for negative votes (or else cap positive votes in the forums as well).

      • pegaxs on 26/08/2023 - 22:14
        +7

        And negative votes on a positive deal comment should remove that upvote just as it does for negative post votes.

        Plenty of people upvote deals as trolls and there is no way to remove them, but if you do a legitimate negative vote on a deal and the trolls/whiners don’t like it, they can neg bomb your comment to remove the negative deal vote.

        That is bullshit of the highest order.

    • HelpMeiCantSee on 27/08/2023 - 10:56
      +1

      The restricted number of them means that by necessity they are used a little more thoughtfully. Lots of negs means it’s wildly out of the “normal” for lots of people.

      • Tee Rex Arms on 27/08/2023 - 11:48

        Same argument could be had for upvotes then

    • MessyG on 29/08/2023 - 21:32

      It prevents pile-ons, ie cancel culture!

  • Loot N Plunder on 26/08/2023 - 12:40
    +5

    Opinions are like A$$holes
    everyone has one
    And they all stink

    Let there be odour

    • DoctorCalculon on 26/08/2023 - 20:12

      And negative votes are like farts…

      • cookie2 on 26/08/2023 - 23:04
        +1

        Not enough of them?
        You run out too soon?
        You need to wait to accumulate more?
        Confidential?
        Sneaky?
        Surprisingly enjoyable?
        A dirty little secret?

    • frewer on 28/08/2023 - 13:58

      Im on proper diet, it doesnt stink. Dont trust me ? Come & smell it

  • randomusername2017 on 26/08/2023 - 13:34
    +3

    Expand the feature.
    Enable voting on forum topics
    This would be an excellent opportunity for a trial run…

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