Eating Meat that's Been Sitting Out for a Couple of Days

SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 00:42

Alright food scientists of OzBargain (of which there are many, I'm sure). Think you're so smart? Well then please share some of your smarts with me. Thank you

Most of us would agree that you shouldn't eat meat (or milk, eggs, etc.) if they've been out of refrigeration for over 4 hours

So how come when I go to Baker's Delight I see all manner of cheeses and meats baked on top of/into pastries that are sitting out on display all day? Maybe they're refrigerated but it doesn't feel like it when I feel the contents of a freshly purchased bag. Even if they are refrigerated in store most people leave them on their unrefrigerated counters and have no quarrels eating them (maybe I'm projecting)

Please provide your knowledge so we can solve food safety once and for all

Food & Grocery

Comments

  • p1 ama on 28/08/2023 - 01:12
    +14

    They're preserved (e.g. deli) meats?

    • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 02:13

      I'm not sure if they use ham or bacon to top their baked goods but this still seems strange to me. If you had a meat lovers pizza from Domino's that was sitting out all night I think people would be hesitant to eat it. The same thing doesn't seem to be true for the equivalent at Baker's Delight or Colesworth where people will leave them out on the counter for days before consumption with no worries (even though they both use preserved meats)

      • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 07:05
        +1

        What makes you think an individual baked good has been sitting there for days? There could be a turnover and they have been replaced. If you are worried about food safety then talk to the manager about how they manage stock.

        • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 14:07

          I don't think any of their produce has been sitting there for days. I think people buy it, take it home and don't immediately eat it so it sits out on the counter and then feel fine eating it a couple of days later. This isn't the case with all foods (KFC chicken) so I wanted to figure out where the line is and why some foods are fine sitting out with meat/dairy and others would get you a fine/shutdown from a health inspector

          • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 14:11
            +1

            @SpainKing: Thanks for your clarification. In all honesty I think you have a bigger problem with the pastry/bread going stale before the topping going “off”. In my case stuff goes into an air tight container or in the fridge if I don’t eat it the same day.

            • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 14:16

              @try2bhelpful: No worries. Seems a lot of people initially thought I was having a tirade over Baker's Delight but I just wanted a well known example. Glad to be able to clear it up at the top of the post

              • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 14:21
                +1

                @SpainKing: No probs.

                Part of the reason we have to put things with tasty toppings away pretty promptly is our kitty cats have a fairly broad spectrum of what constitutes “cat food”. Anything with a “meat” or cheese topping would warrant sampling.

                • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 14:24

                  @try2bhelpful: That's cute but annoying. Mine's a fussy eater but loves to take a drink out of my cups, ruining the rest of my water </3 Aside from that it's just cat food and random scraps on the kitchen floor she goes for

                  • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 14:28
                    +2

                    @SpainKing: We know someone who was eating his breakfast cereal and reading his paper. It was only when he heard the lapping sound he realised the cat was drinking the milk in his cereal bowl.

      • p1 ama on 28/08/2023 - 10:17
        +6

        If you had a meat lovers pizza from Domino's that was sitting out all night I think people would be hesitant to eat it

        Huh? I eat leftover pizza all the time…

      • Hybroid on 28/08/2023 - 10:22
        +3

        What happens to the left over products at the end of the day?

        All of our bakeries promise customers that their bread is baked from scratch every day. To commit to this promise, all surplus products must be removed from the bakery at the end of trade.

        Where possible, Bakers Delight franchisees donate surplus bread to local charities and community groups across Australia and New Zealand. Donations are possible because

        Certain products, such as those that contain meat or custard cannot be donated.

        https://www.bakersdelight.com.au/faqs/

        • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 14:10

          My nan gets some of that donated bread (through her church group I believe) so I'm aware of the donation program. Very strange because I know for a fact we've received the pizza bread with BBQ sauce and meat on top and some danishes that contain custard

    • Stopback on 28/08/2023 - 10:05

      Most deli meats are hot smoked not cold smoked which costs much more money/time.

  • mskeggs on 28/08/2023 - 07:21
    +13

    Eggs don’t need to be refrigerated.
    Neither do foods, even meats, that have a very low water content because they are high in salt or sugar. For example, salami, traditionally cured bacon, hard cheeses.

    Many foods in your cupboard exist firstly as a way to preserve calories before refrigeration existed, such as sauces, preserves, dried foods etc.

    Some of these foods will spoil over time with fats going rancid or the item drying out, so we tend to refrigerate and seal them up for even longer storage, but these are about flavour and quality not safety, as the dangerous food pathogens need moisture to grow.

    • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 07:34

      https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/botulism#:~….

      Admittedly this is more in the preparation.

      • mskeggs on 28/08/2023 - 08:01
        +5

        And refrigerating doesn’t kill off botulism or the toxin it produces, you’re just refrigerating contaminated food, though it would slow the further growth.
        As you say, preventing botulism is mainly about stopping cross contamination from things like soil or animal intestines with the processed food product.

        • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 08:40
          +2

          I concede your point.

          • mskeggs on 28/08/2023 - 09:04
            +3

            @try2bhelpful: And I will take good care not to spread contamination on my food! Unless I am cooking up the special mushrooms for my ex-mother-in-law.

            • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 09:06
              +1

              @mskeggs: The poisoned mushrooms was actually a plot from Midsomer murders.

              It looks like Yevgeny Prigozhin wouldn’t eat the mushrooms. I love The Shovel where they said his plane fell out of a window.

              • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 18:03
                +1

                @try2bhelpful: He probs had polonium waiting in the wings if the red wine didn't 'cork' him

    • BewareOfThe Dog on 28/08/2023 - 12:45

      This is also how they kept all the convicts, settlers and crew alive on ships for 6 months, whilst coming to Australia.

  • randomusername2017 on 28/08/2023 - 07:33
    +7

    Local deli must be a virtual wonderland for you…

    • bdl on 28/08/2023 - 08:12
      +7

      old man yells at deli

  • Sinnerator on 28/08/2023 - 07:56
    +1

    CHEMICALS
    Artificial preservatives etc.
    Medical science keeps you living LONGER, all the chemicals you consume ensure your extended stay is in MISERY.

    • bargaino on 28/08/2023 - 09:30
      +3

      Is that meant to be a parody of tinfoil hatters?

    • Boioioioi on 28/08/2023 - 09:32
      +3

      This reads like a comment on facebook

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/08/2023 - 13:11
        +4

        how could DICTATOR DAN POISON ME with artificial deli meats

    • Chandler on 28/08/2023 - 13:36

      Dunno well, I do know, why you got downvoted.

      But whilst the opinion may be triggering or shared in a inflammatory way at times, it's not necessarily wrong…

  • randomusername2017 on 28/08/2023 - 08:28

    manner of cheeses and meats baked on

    Considered shelf stable when held under certain conditions. Add air, water, heat and stability reduces (last night's dominos).

    • Stopback on 28/08/2023 - 10:17

      You aren't supposed to have cold pizza either

  • TheOtherLeft on 28/08/2023 - 08:49
    +1

    You do realise the meats on the baked goods are all deli meats, i.e. cured etc? The point of curing is to preserve them and give them a longer useful life when out of the fridge. They're also then oven baked onto the bread.

  • sumyungguy on 28/08/2023 - 08:52
    +2

    Cheeses and deli meats are preserved foods. Baking them kills any food handling bacteria which means they're safe to be displayed at ambient temperature. You're likely refrigerating a meatlovers pizza due to the seasoned ground beef, not the deli meats.

  • Cheaplikethebird on 28/08/2023 - 09:08
    +8

    Man we are so removed from our food now we don't even know when it will go bad if it doesn't have an expiry date printed on it.

  • Stopback on 28/08/2023 - 09:22

    How about the Asian buns with pork at bread top.

    They even have tuna buns

    • randomusername2017 on 28/08/2023 - 09:33

      buns with pork at bread top.

      Probably the most publicised food poisoning outbreaks over the last 20 years.

      Not necessarily the protein, more the incorrect handling.

  • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 09:41
    +2

    Most ppls personal hygiene would have a greater impact on the risk of food poisoning than any speculated possibility at Subway. Pretty sure a long standing model like Subway is the least of OPs food fears. Does OP wash their hands before handling it? If not what have you handled /touched since the last time your hands were fully clean, and what the time you handled the food you eat?

    • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 15:31

      Doesn't feel like this really engages with the question. I'm aware of Subway and don't consider them the patron saint of clean eating establishments we should all model our food storage after

      My question was relating to food storage, not people's personal hygiene. That's a factor that changes on an individual basis. Foods provided by corporations tend to be more standardised than people and their behaviours

      Where is the line for what is considered safe storage of meat? One person here says it's fine to leave it out in a pot of curry all night and reheat it the next day (presumably unpreserved meats). Another says to throw out any perishable food left out of refrigeration for over 4 hours. Others saying they'll eat pizza left out and another that claims it's only safe if it was well cooked and dried out

      Unfortunately I think the question might be so broad and fraught with personal opinion that it's impossible to get a conclusive answer, everyone has a different idea of where the line should be. I'm happy to say it's because they're baked and dry and pasteurised and cured and smoked and I'll live with any resulting cognitive dissonance

      • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 16:30

        You sound like you have grudge.
        "I'm aware of Subway and don't consider them the patron saint of clean eating establishments""

        First the tenet of the thread,^ and then total dismissive of hygiene issues impacting on food, including clean hands and surfaces.
        Don't go to Subway then.
        and/or post a link to cases of food poisoning associated with them. Or what you are actually doing is making a good case for their hygiene model.

        Penny drops>
        " I think the question might be so broad and fraught with personal opinion that it's impossible to get a conclusive answer"
        If you wanted a conclusive answer you'd look in the right place,surely.

          • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 17:32
            +1

            @SpainKing: LOL. Your multiple sarcastic descriptors from the getgo in this thread and several comments in it since, and admission you can't expect to find the answers here? (twice) Then you complain about ppl engaging in a way you don't like????
            Then you posted a link showing you can actually google. One that's 13 years old. Was it the the way Subway normally stores and handles it's food?
            "People get infected with shigella when they come in contact with and swallow small amounts of bacteria from the stool of a person who is infected with shigella. " Like I said. Unwashed hands, not the way they ALWAYS store the food.A model that works well when done right.

            Your first and last sentence of your post shows how serious your quest is.

            • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 18:16

              @Protractor: So people aren't allowed to use sarcasm when they ask a question?

              Asking a question and realising the answer isn't going to be found due to the nature of the question (and freely admitting this) is absurd?

              Having someone who doesn't make a point in their sentences and regularly interacts like an insufferable child to anyone who disagrees with them coming in to derail the point of discussion is something to celebrate? I'd prefer complaining

              There were several instances I could have linked to (more recent if you can believe it) for Subway food poisoning but the one I chose is an actual investigation definitively linking to it. I felt that using a source less scholarly would have you calling the merits of the link in to question (which you did anyway)

              Congratulations, not washing your hands is practicing poor hygiene. Glad we got to the bottom of this together Protractor. I guess nothing else comes in to the equation worth considering but the human factor and how Subway chooses to operate

              Please leave me alone, I don't like conversing with you

              • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 18:32

                @SpainKing: Sarcasm? LOL

                Block me.That's what it's for.
                BTW I'm not the only one zero-ing in on your contradictions.

                • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 18:46

                  @Protractor: Yes, you seemed like you had a problem with people using sarcasm. It's hard to tell when your sentences don't lead anywhere

                  I might block you one day but for now I'll keep seeing you go off in threads about rent because I like the people that make actual points countering your ramblings

                  I ain't trying to be contradictory mate, I'm trying to sort out my brain's cognitive dissonance by asking questions. Please expose me for the hypocrite I am and tell me who else is zero-ing in

                  • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 19:01
                    +1

                    @SpainKing: Geez. Do your own thread reviewing
                    You're free to stop engaging me (you are the one that said you don't want to and then it turns out you can't help yourself (long winded analytical responses)
                    Don't hide behind the term 'sarcasm' after the event.
                    The term cognitive dissonance is as overused and misused as 'woke' IMO.

                    • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 19:14

                      @Protractor: I'll stop engaging with you. I was more asking that you not engage with me in the future (e.g now and future threads) as it's a deeply unpleasant experience for me to reply to

                      You brought up me being sarcastic mate so I don't think I'm hiding behind it

                      You're free to have your opinions on the phrase cognitive dissonance. I think the same thing with LOL. I'm using the term in the correct context but to keep it brief for you I won't explain myself

                      • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 19:20

                        @SpainKing: Too bad you played the sarcasm defence AFTER I pointed out the semi snide way you set up and closed out the thread.But it is what it is.
                        Try "curiosity" next time. It's more fair dinkum.

                        LOL is just me talking the local lingo here.
                        There's another thread that touches on the topic of hidden posts etc. I'll meet you over there with my next good idea.

  • futureminime on 28/08/2023 - 09:45
    +9

    Most of us would agree that you shouldn't eat meat (or milk, eggs, etc.) if they've been out of refrigeration for over 4 hours

    This is where your misunderstanding comes from. Most of us would disagree with this statement. Eggs can and are safely stored out of the fridge in many supermarkets, farmers markets, left in stalls at farm gates. UHT milk only needs to be refrigerated once opened.

    We need food for nutrition but other living things also can use that nutrition for their growth. Bacteria, yeasts and molds are all around us, and some a bad for us, so we want to store food in a way to 'Preserve' it for as long as we can to slow down their growth in the product. Refrigeration is one way. There is lots of others like canning, UHT, freezing, freeze drying, salting, smoking.

    Following on, you need to understand what a 'best before' label actually means, and what the spoiling mechanism is for your food product. M&S in the UK for example, have moved to remove the use by dates from milk because they aren't a reliable indicator of if the milk is not longer fit for consumption and a better test is to smell/taste a small amount before use. —> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/06/ms-removes-…

    So how come when I go to Baker's Delight I see all manner of cheeses and meats baked on top of/into pastries that are sitting out on display all day? Maybe they're refrigerated but it doesn't feel like it when I feel the contents of a freshly purchased bag. Even if they are refrigerated in store most people leave them on their refrigerated counters and have no quarrels eating them (maybe I'm projecting)

    When you have compound products (bread, cheese, meats) you need to consider how each part will effect the shelf life. In this instance the meats are most likely cured and people completely find with it because there isn't a food safety risk —> they have used a method of preservation suitable for room temperature conditions, and importantly, the expected time of consumption. The product is safe for the day since they've made baked it but won't be safe a week later.

    Please provide your knowledge so we can solve food safety once and for all

    Science never gets solved 'once and for all', the reason you know that Food Scientist is a job is because you need to constantly be working to make foods last longer, new food products be shelf stable, to translate that research to an economically viable solution for market etc.

    Example below:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-05-01/fresh-milk-brea…

    The current pasteurization process is suitable for local markets (and some SEA) but not really viable for exporting to Europe, for example.

    • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 14:56
      +1

      Sorry, I should have clarified I meant eggs that had been cooked or otherwise breached their shells, not ones just sitting in the carton. Same with milk where I meant regular refrigerated milk

      I understand the concept of preservation. With meats like ham or bacon though they are cured to preserve them and we still refrigerate them prior to and after cooking (except for sometimes like when on a pizza bread). What makes this pizza bread so special? It seems like it must be the lack of moisture but the ones from the supermarkets are almost damp in their containers and some are covered in sauce. S'pose it could instead be pumped full of sugar and salt

      I know that "best before" is a suggestion and "use by" is a little more serious and it's cool to hear about M&S milk. I hear you can also cook using spoiled milk and it's no problem

      When you have compound products (bread, cheese, meats) you need to consider how each part will affect the shelf life. In this instance, the meats are most likely cured and people are completely fine with it because there isn't a food safety risk —> they have used a method of preservation suitable for room temperature conditions, and importantly, the expected time of consumption. The product is safe for the day since they've baked it but won't be safe a week later.

      Lots of the people here appear to be happy to eat it a week later. I guess my confusion is why we consider meat safe unrefrigerated in some forms (bacon on top of dough) but not others (bacon from deli/cooked and left out on counter for a couple of days)

      Science never gets solved 'once and for all'

      Was just trying to be facetious and inject a bit of personality in to the post. Having inflammatory views or ways of expressing them gets you more answers on this site than asking an honest question (and either way, people will act like dicks answering you). Thanks for putting in a good faith effort and some fun facts with your comment

      PS: I thought science had solved certain problems. Like they proved why things fall down (gravity and its waves or something) and why people were getting cancer in their lungs a whole bunch when tobacco was getting smoked in them (smoking tobacco)

      • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 16:31

        Science hasn't solved why people still ask questions on forums, that have already been answered a gazillion times by science.

  • leiiv on 28/08/2023 - 10:33

    so we can solve food safety once and for all

    The only way to solve this efficiently is if there exists a smart portable microscope that can sample bits of food and determine the level of bad bacterial and fungus, that can be used by every ordinary household.
    But even that is not a silver bullet either. Different part of the same dish may have different rate of bacterial growth.

  • Horacio on 28/08/2023 - 10:46
    +1

    The cooking process has dried out the fresh meat & cheese; without moisture bacteria and fungi can't grow fast enough to make the food go off. There's no mystery, this is why for example it's fine to eat a well cooked pizza that's been sitting out for a day, as long as the toppings were dry out of the oven and stayed that way.

  • rumblytangara on 28/08/2023 - 10:52
    -1

    Most of us would agree that you shouldn't eat meat (or milk, eggs, etc.) if they've been out of refrigeration for over 4 hours

    First I've heard of this.

    Basic premise flawed, not bothering to continue with engagement.

    • sumyungguy on 28/08/2023 - 10:54
      +1

      https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumer/safety/Pages/food-…
      Microorganisms can multiply very quickly if food is kept at room temperature. Keep perishable food refrigerated at 5°C​ or colder.
      - if less than 2 hours you can put it back in the fridge ​
      - between 2 and 4 hours, eat it straight away ​
      - a​fter 4 hours, throw it away.​

      • AustriaBargain on 28/08/2023 - 13:09

        But what if the food is a room temperature food in the first place, like cured meats, breads, etc.?

      • rumblytangara on 28/08/2023 - 14:40

        So if I bake a potato, cut it open, and leave it sitting on a table (possibly even under a cover) for five hours, it should be tossed.

        Riiight.

        Of course, common sense should never be used, and we should rely on worst-case blanket guidelines written for people who can't be trusted to tie their own shoelaces.

        • sumyungguy on 28/08/2023 - 15:46

          Whenever you store food at the optimal temperature for bacterial multiplication you risk spoilage.

  • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 10:54
    +1

    Our fridge broke down and to our embarrassment we didn’t notice for what was, probably, a couple of weeks. The dairy didn’t seem to last as long, and the butter was spreadable, so we should’ve twigged earlier. The freezer part was still working, however the fridge section was 12C. The thing is we never get sick despite the fact we were eating food from what was, essentially, a cupboard rather than a fridge. We didn’t eat/drink anything that was obviously off, like the Yoghurt growing friends or the lumpy milk. I wonder how much food poisoning is due to storage at too high a temperature and how much is poor hygiene and contamination by insects?

    If we batch cook food we usually put the leftovers in an esky, with ice bricks, to rapidly cool the food without affecting other food in the fridge. It also stops the leaving it on the stove overnight problems.

    • Switchblade88 on 28/08/2023 - 11:03
      +1

      What kind of heathen doesn't have a light in their fridge?!?

      • thatonethere on 28/08/2023 - 12:30

        About 15 years ago that happened to us - the light still worked but the compressor wasn't keeping it cold. We twigged when the milk went off before use by and the beer in the door wasn't crispy cold anymore…

      • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 12:40

        The light worked it’s just that the regulator wasn’t working properly.

      • Protractor on 28/08/2023 - 18:05

        A vampire with a bloodbank in his Kelvinator?

  • Jimmycfc on 28/08/2023 - 12:37
    +1

    I've cooked plenty of stir fries & curries with meats in and left on the stovetop and then just reheated in the same pan the next day.
    I've never had a problem but i only started doing this after living in Japan where it is very common.

    • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 15:11

      That's part of what made me start thinking about it. I've heard of master pots of broth/stock where they incorporate the old broth when they make a new one and I thought some part of that process might raise eyebrows from a hygiene perspective.

      Like doesn't food eventually just rot? That's not a process that can be undone by exposing to heat or cooking it forever (maybe it's akin to homeopathic medicine where only one molecule out of a million is even possible to be present after doing 8 rotations of stock)

      I'm sure your method of storage isn't recommended by the government or whoever takes care of food here/there but I'm glad you haven't gotten sick, keep doing it if it's easier for you and you're happy with the risk (must be quite low if so common in Japan). Does sound a little bit like fried rice syndrome in the making to me however

      • rumblytangara on 28/08/2023 - 15:58
        +1

        Every time you make more broth, you boil it. Which kills microorganisms.

        • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 17:00

          Bacteria can multiply when not being boiled and the toxins they produce don't always boil out so it seems like it could still be a concern unless it was being continuously boiled (and if it was then I'd worry about having a boiling pot of water going all night and the salt levels getting thrown out of whack)

          • rumblytangara on 28/08/2023 - 17:31
            +2

            @SpainKing: Well, it's clearly not a problem if this has been happening all over the world for decades.

            Assuming that all bacterial produce unsolvable toxins is a stretch. Think about sourdough starters or kombucha scobys (both are a combination of bacteria + yeast) - they are recycled for years or decades (or centuries- there's an American sourdough starter that has literally been in widespread and continuous use for over a hundred years). People are not dying from eating bread or drinking kombucha.

            On the other hand, the bacteria responsible for botulism could be found on food. But is it going to be found in broths that are boiled every 24 hours, or on supermarket food that's been sitting out for 4 hours?

            You seem to be inventing "what if" type objections here, objections that clearly do not correspond to reality. If the hypothetical doesn't match reality, then clearly there the problem is with your underlying assumptions.

            • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 18:40

              @rumblytangara: People died due to poor food storage all the time for decades and still do so it might be a bit of a problem

              They don't all produce unsolvable toxins but certain ones can easily remain at the temperature where water normally boils. Seems to me the only way to get rid of them would be to boil it under pressure or use a different cooking method

              Correct me if I'm wrong, but a scoby or sourdough starter is quite safe because you try not to expose it to any other bacteria, and they tend to outcompete any other bacteria that might get introduced fast enough to kill them off so they don't produce toxins that would be harmful to people

              I had no clue there's been such a long surviving sourdough starter but that's very cool

              I know botulinum toxin is unlikely to be found in supermarket foods (so are listeria and needles) and I think this is why so many people are happy to take the risk when food has been sitting out. I still ponder whether it is risky and just one we collectively choose to accept

              My brain just likes being contrarian so inventing "what if" edge case scenarios is a natural follow through unfortunately

              • rumblytangara on 28/08/2023 - 20:16
                +1

                @SpainKing:

                My brain just likes being contrarian so inventing "what if" edge case scenarios is a natural follow through unfortunately

                So does mine, and I've found that indulging in it, either online or in person with the continuous refrain of "yes but…" is a great way to kill informed discussion.

                This thread is full of "yes but…" hence the fairly heavy dose of pushback and sarcasm.

                • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 20:53

                  @rumblytangara: Oh it sucks, I've tried to cut back but it's in my nature. At its worst when I play Devil's advocate

                  The thread was actually quite constructive. There were a few people being a bit cheeky and an equal number of them being sincere and giving actual input which is what I expected of OzBargain (especially with the inflammatory way I wrote the post)

    • jm7 on 28/08/2023 - 15:57

      My Vietnamese in-laws do the same. They rarely put cooked food in the fridge and leave it out for hours (including meat and eggs). I always worry I will get sick but I never have (and I've eaten many meals that have been left out)

  • Ughhh on 28/08/2023 - 12:44

    Would depend on the humidity in your house too I assume

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/08/2023 - 13:13
    +1

    OP has clearly never lived in a uni sharehouse. Anything is edible the morning or days after.

    • try2bhelpful on 28/08/2023 - 14:13
      +1

      Reminds me of the joke
      Person 1 - “Her floor is so clean you could eat of it”,
      Person 2 - “You could eat off mine too, there is plenty of dropped food on it”

  • capslock janitor on 28/08/2023 - 16:38

    cos theyre baked goods and not "fresh?

  • outlander on 28/08/2023 - 18:20
    +1

    Meat goes bad primarily due to bacteria. They feed on the meat, and release a variety of compounds that make it yucky.
    For bacteria to grow, they need moisture. If the moisture level is too low, it doesn't matter if the nutrients are there, they can't make use of it. That's why jerky (just dehydrated meat at its most basic form) works.

    Also note that it's not as clearcut as clean vs dirty. In many cases, products have bacteria on or inside them, but it's at a level that doesn't pose a threat to most healthy individuals. Milk is like this. It has bacteria inside the bottle despite pasteurization, but the level is fairly low and the strains aren't particularly deadly. This is why milk will expire even if kept in the fridge.
    Most of the time this is how things work, where it's not clean, just clean enough. Bacteria are everywhere and trying to get anything completely sterile is very difficult.

    edit: Actually if you want a legitimate reason to be pissed off about bakery food, then you should know they put the best looking fresh ones up front, but give you the old stock from the back. I paid $5.30 for a dried up pizza bagel from Bakers Delight once that way. It was horrible. Never again

    • SpainKing on 28/08/2023 - 18:27

      Thanks for your response, it's quite comprehensive. I'd ask about fringe cases (like the inside of a bag of bread can have condensation, or the D. Jay's biltong I buy says to store in the freezer after opening) but I've spent enough time with this thread and will base my food safety schema on your info (and that from some of the other responses in this thread that were equally helpful)

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