Neighbour Dispute - Retaining Wall

chocoman123 on 19/09/2023 - 03:12
Last edited 21/09/2023 - 21:00

Hi guys,

I have a question in regards to my newly built house in a relatively new estate in Victoria.

The neighbours house is on a zero lot boundary block of land. My house is built at a higher position than the neighbours.

The neighbours are asking if we can split 50/50 for a retaining wall that is 150mm away from their garage wall built on my land to avoid blocking their weep holes from their garage wall. I have been notified by my neighbours that their builder is refusing to take action any further as they have built according to plan.

For me it seems like a stuff-up on their end as they built the weep-holes of their garage wall too low but then again, this is not my area of expertise. I am more than happy for them to build a retaining wall on our land to prevent damage to their property but I am not happy with splitting the cost.

Am I obligated to pay for this?

I have contacted the local council and awaiting their reply

I have attached photos for reference.

https://ibb.co/TMvJgk3
https://ibb.co/zFF5mPW

I have attached more photos re. NGL + FL though i do not know how to interpret it
https://ibb.co/7QWzsSy
https://ibb.co/B4vyRyd

ADDIT: I have built before the neighbours approx 6-8 months before they have started

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Dundundunnnn on 19/09/2023 - 05:16
    +11

    No, tell them they need to sort it out with the builder as he has likely breached ncc requirements for minimum freeboard for weep holes above adjacent ground level.

  • JuanLove on 19/09/2023 - 05:32
    +29

    A retaining wall is not a fence. If it is built it on your land, it is your retaining wall. This is includes liability for repairs and issues assoc subsequent damage cause by the wall.

    Don't split it and don't let them build it on your land. This is their problem that they are trying to make your problem

    • sheamas88 on 19/09/2023 - 07:58
      +6

      Yeah only way this should be remotely considered is if they are paying for the wall, loss of use for your land, 30-40 years of maintenance/replacements, and for the inconvenience of having to deal with all this.

      This needs to be all paid for upfront in a lump sum as you don't want them reneging on it later, or selling in a few years and the next owners not honoring the agreement.

    • vinni9284 on 19/09/2023 - 08:14

      It'll be a small retaining wall. I have one and never had any issues. Very common for homes built on slopes.

  • garetz on 19/09/2023 - 06:02
    +2

    Not your problem, if you agree you might make it your problem and also your expense.
    Building a retaining wall on your property will make it possibly entirely your responsibility if there are any issues in the future.

    I would refer em to their builder.

  • Stopback on 19/09/2023 - 06:11

    their garage wall built on my land to avoid blocking their weep holes from their garage wall. I

    Thanks gonna block my neighbours weep holes in their garage now

    • vinni9284 on 19/09/2023 - 08:37
      -2

      It's not on the OP's land. It is at the boundary (i.e. fence line)

      • pjetson on 19/09/2023 - 09:42

        The retaining wall would have to be on the OP's land, because the neighbour's garage wall is on the boundary.

        • vinni9284 on 19/09/2023 - 10:26

          Correct. But the OP saves several metres of half fencing costs due to this. The OP's builder should of placed a retaining wall as it's cut and fill.

  • bloom on 19/09/2023 - 06:58

    Retaining walls are for the party which benefits
    No benefit for you… so their problem… they pay

    P.S. glad you could afford eaves unlike your neighbour 😉

    • sheamas88 on 19/09/2023 - 07:53
      +3

      P.S. glad you could afford eaves unlike your neighbour

      Well its zero-boundary, so unless you are suggesting OP let them build the eaves on their land…

  • vinni9284 on 19/09/2023 - 08:10
    -1

    Are you going the leave the land level as it is? If you raise the soil then you would have to consider that you cannot raise it till the neighbouring wall as it will put pressure on their garage and cover weep holes. Therefore your soil height will have to stop before the neighbouring garage wall and would consider a retaining wall. Your builder should of considered this and I assume that your house was built first? As a neighbouring gesture, I would go 50/50 on the wall. They last for years. I have one and the house is 10 years old. It still works well with no issues. If you are going to leave the soil as it is then there is no need.

  • apsilon on 19/09/2023 - 08:14
    +4

    LOL, they have the nerve to ask you to give up some of your land AND pay for half of the retaining wall.

    • vinni9284 on 19/09/2023 - 08:18

      The OP's builder should of considered this. I assume the OP's home is built first hence no cost and liability from the builder. Now the OP is stuck with a slope and can't level it without affecting the neighbouring garage.

  • madreece on 19/09/2023 - 08:17
    +1

    Pretty poor building. Builder should have recongnised the upcoming problem with the soil levels and had the lower courses of the garage boundary wall designed/ built as a retaining wall. Looking at the rear fence line, it looks as if you have added to the issue with a signifigant cut and fill for your house.

  • vinni9284 on 19/09/2023 - 08:23

    I would get the neighbour to check their engineering drawings from their builder and see if their garage requires a retaining wall.

  • Freitag on 19/09/2023 - 08:25
    +1

    They stuffed up, they should be able to manage levels within their own boundaries.

    • vinni9284 on 19/09/2023 - 08:29

      Agree. OP's builder retaining wall. Neighbour's builder, garage retaining wall with higher weep holes and water proofing.

  • vinni9284 on 19/09/2023 - 08:43

    Question for the OP. Many ppl are throwing responsibilities to the neighbour.
    If the neighbour didn't build to the boundary, I assume you need to add a fence at the boundary right? Will you ask the neighbour to go 50/50 on a fence? Will you fill your land level? And if so then you will need a retaining wall… and will you ask your neighbour for 50/50 retaining wall with a fence on top?

    • chocoman123 on 19/09/2023 - 15:42

      Regarding a fence the neighbour and I have agreed for timber sleepers to raise the above height

      • vinni9284 on 19/09/2023 - 19:00
        +1

        So do you have intentions of raising your height of NGL adjacent to the neighbouring garage?

  • BeamMeUp on 19/09/2023 - 09:08
    +1

    The picture appears to show you have elevated your block with fill. Did you built before or after your neighbour?
    If after you have created the problem and out of consideration allow it to be resolved. If the neighbour will pay 50/50 lucky you as maybe you should pay 100% of the wall.
    But… if they built after their design should have considered your raised block and they can pay 100%, same if you built at the same time as they should have checked what your design plan was. Either way allow a resolution and be a good neighbour.

    • Jake D on 19/09/2023 - 11:08
      +2

      Agreed. What was the RL at the boundary prior to any construction?

      OP may be required to provide their own retaining at their own expense or maintain the slope to the boundary level.

  • Nugs on 19/09/2023 - 09:21

    IANAB
    excavate, lay drainage pipe (slotted ag pipe), backfill with gravel, geo textile and soil to level out from base of your house
    .

    • Jake D on 19/09/2023 - 11:09

      Not if the neighbour's garage wall hasn't been designed as a retaining wall.

  • Euphemistic on 19/09/2023 - 09:31

    See what council says. Neighbours want a retaining wall to stop runoff going into their garage wall. Does OP want a level area?

    I see no benefit of a retaining wall for OP. It’s not like that area is going to be used much and might as well not have a wall with a 150mm weed bed at the bottom. Would be better to leave it as a gentle slope that is easy to mow.

    Who built first? Both are obviously new builds. If OP is building after, then likely you are responsible to ensure no water runs off into the neighbours garage. If the neighbour built second, then they screwed up and need to work out how to fix it. Then you’ve also got to consider where the fence is going to go down the back. Does OP want to level up the yard or happy for a retaining wall under the fence line to make the yard more level.

    • Euphemistic on 19/09/2023 - 15:42
      +1

      On a second view of the picture there’s already a retaining wall on the boundary. Who built that and when? Seems a strange place to put a small retaining wall without consulting the neighbour and without constructing the garage to be a retaining wall as well.

      Any new wall is not going to align with the existing retaining wall and is going to screw up the fence line as well. Really a poor situation.

    • chocoman123 on 19/09/2023 - 15:44

      I have built first, construction started 6-8 months before their house begun. I definitely would want a leveled area

      • Euphemistic on 19/09/2023 - 15:47

        Did they build the other wall? How are you going to resolve that against the corner of the garage and the fence at the back? Maybe you’d be better to retain much closer to your house and make the usable section lower.

        • chocoman123 on 19/09/2023 - 17:56

          Their builders have erected that retaining wall during the final stage of their build

          • Euphemistic on 19/09/2023 - 19:14

            @chocoman123: Might have been good of them to consult with you before that happened so you could get a consistent boundary.

  • timthetoolman on 19/09/2023 - 09:56

    If they're happy to build a retaining wall on your property side, see if they'd be happy to build the fence the same distance over on their property side so you have more room?

    • c64 on 19/09/2023 - 10:23

      sounds a recipe for trouble. might work for current owner but the next owner might not be enthused

  • NocteRegem on 19/09/2023 - 12:10
    +2

    Looking at that you would need a retaining wall anyway to have any chance of having a usable space there so just go 50/50, you're not going to be able to fill against their garage wall.

  • Drakesy on 19/09/2023 - 13:48
    -1

    Sounds like your neighbour needs to pay for their own retaining wall.

    Usually it's the developer that installs these, else it'll be on the builder.

    Just tell em you're welcome to build it but i won't pay. Retaining walls aren't even that expensive, like maybe $3k tops. Just be like but i'm happy to share costs for the fence.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 19/09/2023 - 15:27
    +3

    I am more than happy for them to build a retaining wall on our land to prevent damage to their property

    WHY?

    Why are you willing to give up YOUR LAND for THEIR problem?

    Absolutely mind blowing why you would even consider this. Do not let them build anything on your land, it is their problem to fix on their land. If they have to knock down the garage and rebuild it, guess what? not your problem.

  • sharka on 19/09/2023 - 15:32
    -5

    I'm not a lawyer, but I can offer you some general guidance on how to approach this matter. Considering the complexity of the situation, it's excellent that you're seeking advice from your local council. Here is a general guideline on how you might navigate this situation:

    1. Research Local Laws and Regulations
      Council Regulations: Await the response from your local council to understand the specific regulations that govern your situation.
      Building Codes: Look into the applicable building codes in Victoria to see if there are any clear guidelines on such matters.
    2. Document Everything
      Photographs: It's great that you have photographs; ensure they clearly detail the exact issue for reference.
      Correspondence: Keep a record of all the communications you have had with your neighbour regarding this issue.
    3. Consult with Experts
      Building Expert: Consider seeking advice from a building expert or a structural engineer to assess the situation from a technical standpoint. Their input might help you understand whether the neighbour's request is reasonable.
      Legal Expert: Given that this involves property and potential financial obligations, consulting with a lawyer to understand your legal standing can be a prudent step.
    4. Neighbour's Builder
      Builder's Stance: Your neighbour mentioned that their builder has refused to take any further action. It might be worth understanding the builder's stance in more detail, including any technical reasons they have provided for not addressing this themselves.
    5. Negotiation
      Friendly Dialogue: Maintain a friendly dialogue with your neighbour. This could potentially lead to a solution without getting into a more complex legal pathway.
      Alternative Solutions: Explore alternative solutions. Maybe there is a more cost-effective way to address the problem that is satisfactory to both parties.
    6. Mediation
      Community Legal Service: If an agreement can't be reached amicably, you might consider approaching a community legal service for mediation before thinking of legal actions.
    7. Financial Planning
      Preparedness: Although you are not inclined to share the cost, be prepared for different outcomes, including the potential of sharing some financial burden.
    8. Your Rights
      Protection of Your Property: Remember that while it is important to maintain good relations with neighbours, it is equally important to protect your property and rights.
    9. Future Relations
      Harmony: Finding a solution that respects both parties’ rights and maintains harmony should be a priority as you are going to be neighbours for potentially a long time.
    10. Constructive Solution
      Joint Solution: If possible, work towards a solution that not only solves the present issue but also prevents any such disputes in the future.
      Keep in mind that specific legal advice from a professional is essential in this case to understand your obligations and rights properly.
    • Euphemistic on 19/09/2023 - 15:39

      Thanks Chat GPT.

      • sharka on 19/09/2023 - 15:41
        -1

        No problem!
        Figured sometimes a range of input helps in teh decision making process

  • chocoman123 on 20/09/2023 - 08:12

    UPDATE: I met up with the neighbour, he had invited his friend who is presumably a structural engineer, he said he can design a 'brick retaining wall w/ a channel 150mm away from their garage wall for the weep halls' to be placed on my land. I had also mentioned that i believe that I am not responsible for their weep holes being placed too low.

    They have threatened legal action if I do not comply as 'neighbours must maintain the safety of the neighbours' land e.g. water drain off to prevent their garage wall from collapsing.' He then quoted some legal mambo jumbo "as per CSIRO this is the building legislations'.

    I then googled CSIRO when i got home and its about scientific research? lol

    I'm still waiting for a reply from council and I'm going to go from there.

    • Deridas on 20/09/2023 - 08:45
      +1

      Neighbour must maintain the safety of the neighbours' land… thats true. He can maintain the safety of hisand by rebuilding his garage.

      Love it how he builds his structure, then complains about it being unsafe and there you have to do something about it.

    • apsilon on 20/09/2023 - 09:10
      +2

      That'd be the last contact I have with them. From now on all communication should be through your solicitor.

    • Jake D on 20/09/2023 - 12:51

      What was the natural ground level before either of the houses were built? Who has deviated from that? What are your intentions with the sloped land between your wall and the boundary?

    • vinni9284 on 20/09/2023 - 15:27

      Go see a building lawyer for advice. It'll save you time, questions and answers you will get through this forum. That way, you will have 100% clarity of what steps to take. I have seen a building lawyer regarding my build, and he clarified my queries which saved a lot of time. I was completely wrong in initially what I have thought, that in my mind I was 100% correct with the obvious common sense. Law doesn't work that way.

      I am very confident, and you will be surprised that you will find out that you would be responsible for the cost to erect a retaining wall. Why? because you are raising the NGL and it'll impact the structure of the neighbouring garage wall. You are raising the land. Furthermore, your builder should have erected it during the build. Plus the neighbouring garage should have a double bricked garage retaining wall on the boundary. So query about that. Both of you might have to make adjustments to suit.

      Let us know how you go. People may comment on what to do (including me), but you are the one that will be living next to your neighbour. So I hope you reach a resolution.

    • Ryanek on 20/09/2023 - 17:37
      +1

      It's always unfortunate to start your relationship with a neighbour on a sour note, but he's obviously tried to manhandle you. Call his bluff and ask him to get his lawyer to contact you.

    • Euphemistic on 21/09/2023 - 07:48

      There’s always another way. Stick to your guns that you don’t want a 150mm wide channel down the side of your yard. Use the safety card if you need to, ie that it will end up being an unsafe channel in your yard for weeds and vermin.

      What is the level of the back section like? Does it also require a retaining wall along the fence line? It’s really dumb to put a retaining wall along the front bit, then a channel beside the garage then a retaining wall along the back too. Where will the water go from the channel? Who is going to clean it?

      You don’t need to get narky with them. Remain calm and clear that it is not a suitable solution for your yard since THEY put the retaining wall in the front. If they hadn’t put the retaining wall in front you could have lowered the whole section from the garage to the front boundary.

  • prashy on 21/09/2023 - 16:49
    -1

    I’m going to say them offering 50/50 split is a pretty good arrangement.

    Irrespective of who built first their argument that you will be liable (though cited incorrectly) is fair. There is a specific VCAT issue for the unreasonable flow of water between properties. If stormwater runs from your property downhill and enters their property damaging their property you are 100% responsible.

    Erecting a retaining wall will ensure most water run off can be captured by a drainage system (agi pipe, drainage gravel etc). It won’t capture 100% so I would recommend that you put in place a strip drain to capture any any additional water as well as it will all be on your land.

    This should of been raised by both surveyors / builders so it’s best to work together on a resolution and 50/50 seems fair. Don’t go for a brick structure, opt for a concrete sleeper and H steel beams I would recommend a curtain style retaining wall.

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