Best Option for Power Outage - Keep Internet/Wi-Fi Going

tonydav on 17/10/2023 - 12:11
Last edited 17/10/2023 - 12:36 by 1 other user

We seem to go through a run of outages where I live. In the mountains, lots of trees and the windy days of late have meant 3 outages in the last few weeks.

At the moment I have my UDM router and NBN FTTC box plugged into a couple of UPS's. I generally get about 5 hours of power outage.

Next week my Internet is being upgraded to FTTP meaning I won't need the NBN box. I'm thinking of getting a 12V travel router, and a car battery and just running it direct off that with the aim being it will last for ages and won't have the continuous beeping. I have an AGM battery and charger already.

Good idea? Bad idea?

Internet Broadband FTTP nbn Uninterruptible Power Supply

Comments

  • Switchblade88 on 17/10/2023 - 12:29
    +4

    5 hours is pretty good for domestic UPSs (presumably with SLA batteries). I'd stick a car battery into them and mute the alarms; you're not drawing anywhere near the peak power so the UPS transformer won't have any issues with duty cycle and it should last longer.

    FTTP would still need the NTD anyway, no? It's not like you're tapping directly into the GPON, you still need the media converter and the inevitable powered device it is inside to actually access the net.

    • tonydav on 17/10/2023 - 12:34

      Potentially the battery on the larger device is tired as it should last longer. I might replace this initially and see how that goes as that will be pretty straightforward.

  • Twix on 17/10/2023 - 12:31
    +2

    Next week my Internet is being upgraded to FTTP meaning I won't need the NBN box.

    Yeah you do. You get a new nbn NTD for fibre that plugs into your UDM router.

    • tonydav on 17/10/2023 - 12:32

      Yeah I have that already.

      • Twix on 17/10/2023 - 12:34
        +1

        UPS is still the best way to go.

        • tonydav on 17/10/2023 - 12:35
          +1

          Yeah thinking I'll check the date the batteries were changed. The main one is an APC Smart UPS 1500 so quite large and should last a lot longer than it's doing with only minimal draw.

          • LFO on 18/10/2023 - 12:58

            @tonydav: The genius thing to do with the APC Smart UPS 1500 is to swap the tiny internal batteries with two (to get 24VDC) large car batteries.
            You'll then have "days" of UPS power (limited wattage, of course).

            Yes, the cost of two large car batteries is high and some basic knowledge and minimal work is needed (all shown and done in YouTube, by the way) but the benefits are outstanding.
            I have done it with two (old and unusable) gigantic golf cart batts.

            The beeping could be silenced via the APC software, when connecting to the UPS via USB.

            I have done it and was worth it.

            • bamzero on 18/10/2023 - 18:10

              @LFO: Don't use flooded lead acid batteries inside though. They vent hydrogen gas while charging. AGM only.

              • LFO on 20/10/2023 - 11:00

                @bamzero: YES! Good one, thank you.

                Mine are outside, in a carport, so I missed that danger although my old golf cart batteries are non-flooded.

                One other warning is NOT to use Lithium based 12VDC batteries as the UPS is constantly checking/topping-up the batteries.

    • HeWhoKnows on 18/10/2023 - 07:54
      +1

      And maybe possibly switch to an NBN plan with auto 4G backup.
      The Telstra, optus and Vodafone all provide this type of plan/router

  • pscac001 on 17/10/2023 - 12:41

    FTTP still has an NTD that needs power, older models included a battery pack but I don't think the new ones do. I'm not sure what voltage they need, maybe you could run it off a battery as well (NBN might not appreciate that, and they own the NTD), or maybe you'll need a small inverter.

    A car battery will be over 12V when fully charged (or when charging), I suspect that most routers could handle a volt or two extra, but technically you would be out of their designed specifications.

    It's not a particularly elegant solution, but if I were regularly seeing 5hr outages, it's exactly what I would do.

    • Chaddy on 19/11/2023 - 22:16

      I would not suggest using a car battery, you can buy larger UPS units for business use that will last a lot longer then the average one and power your P C and the router easily.
      As for NBN NTD you can buy a battery backup for it but I believe these are for business connections only.
      I also don't think NBN puts too much wait on backup power they've stopped providing the phone port with the NTD so they tend to push backup power back onto the end user as well.

  • Some Human on 17/10/2023 - 12:47
    +1

    I just plug my modem into the generator.

  • bhanutaneja on 17/10/2023 - 12:53

    I am planning something similar. New Gen modems have sim slot to use as backup. I just ordered a 750VA UPS from amazon for Modem which can keep it running for many hours on the SIM data in case of outage. Now I am searching for is a good Mobile sim on Telstra Network with like 5-10GB 1 year expiry.

  • skid on 17/10/2023 - 12:54
    +5

    Depends how wide the power outage is? The node might be in the outage too.

    I think the best backup solution would be wireless internet.

    • Some Human on 17/10/2023 - 23:26

      I've found if it's a really bad storm, the mobile data usually doesn't work.

  • capslock janitor on 17/10/2023 - 13:16
    +1

    Wardenclyffe Tower

  • OMGJL on 17/10/2023 - 13:25
    +1

    I wonder if 4G/5G mobile phone isn't enough for a few hours?

    • tonydav on 17/10/2023 - 15:22
      +1

      No 4G here (5G lol - prob never here). If I had good mobile I wouldn't care TBH.

      • OMGJL on 18/10/2023 - 00:02

        car battery + 12v DC-DC regulator (to stabilize 12v power output) + 12v DC power jack *2, one goes to your router, one goes to your NTD.

        Just do manual switch over during power outage.

        Seems like a cheap enough solution.

        or even cheaper & easier (but way shorter battery life) solution is: PD power bank *2 + TypeC to 12v DC adapter

  • geekcohen on 17/10/2023 - 13:45
    +1

    Remember that even if there is a power outage, it'll kill the NBN at their end through nodes etc, NBN is susceptible to power outages as well. Read more here

    I have UPS' on my Networking and Computer. Estimated to last 1 hour, which is enough to set up the generator and plug it all in. I am then running. I am not on NBN, but if my provider has an outage at his locations (which has happened), then I have no internet.

    I then just use my 4GX Hotspot and use that for internet.

    • tonydav on 17/10/2023 - 15:21

      To date NBN has been fine except once when something was fried at the "curb" bit (I was FTTC then). A lot more was fried that time as the lightning strike was only about 100m away.

      No 4G up here unfortunately.

  • Malik Nasser on 17/10/2023 - 14:29
    +1

    The APC Smart UPS 1500 uses an RBC6 battery which is 12VDC 11Ah.
    Your AGM car battery is likely much higher (50Ah-100Ah). AGM battery voltage is generally in the range of 11.8V-12.8V so should be fine.
    Alternatively get a few of the RBC6 batteries and run them in parallel to increase your Ah rating (make sure you don't run them in series, otherwise you are increasing your voltage).
    Other option is to get a generator. If the outage last more than a couple of hours, then start up the generator and run off that.

    • tonydav on 17/10/2023 - 15:19

      I have got a generator but like all generators is loud and I'm in a residential area. It will run the house but not ideal. More for if we lose power for days (which has happened).

      Interesting thought of wiring the UPS into the AGM battery. I have a spare Eaton 5110 and the battery is dead. I may have a look at that. From memory my AGM battery is 70ah. I used to use it in my people mover to power the esky.

      • tonydav on 17/10/2023 - 16:31

        Actually given the 5110 isn't working I think a simpler option would be to wire it into a Eaton 3S - they are the powerboard UPS and 12V. The 5110 might be 24V similar to the APC SmartUPS which raises more issues. And I know that the 3S actually works.

        • bamzero on 18/10/2023 - 11:13

          I run an 80Ah AGM on my Cyberpower CP900 which works well. Just don't run a flooded battery inside the house, you don't want those vented gases filling your room.

  • mskeggs on 17/10/2023 - 17:04

    I recently ordered this device, for the exact same requirement, but I haven't received it yet to offer a review.
    https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006064665604.html
    If it delivers to specifications it should provide 10+ hours of power for my NBN FTTN. That is plenty for my needs - if it is a multi day outage I can plug it into the camping battery and inverter or generator.

    I liked this as it is, hopefully, an unobtrusive, set and forget solution to short interruptions we get here.
    And if the mountains you mentioned are blue, hi neighbour.

    • mrkorrupt on 17/10/2023 - 18:57

      how much would the raw batteries cost for those specs and voltage

      • mskeggs on 17/10/2023 - 22:41

        The battery is comparable to a power bank, 10000mah at 12v is 24000mah at 5v in a power bank, which can be purchased for around $30-$40, so I don’t think it is necessarily misstating capacity, but I agree it is a possibility.

  • AustriaBargain on 17/10/2023 - 19:12

    If these outages are going to keep happening and won't change anytime soon, why not get a proper battery system for the whole house? Whatever you've saved by buying a home in the middle of nowhere will more than pay for a battery system. Your SO or family when over will appreciate being able to function as normal when the power goes out.

    • Nugs on 17/10/2023 - 20:32

      Tesla powerwall 2 owner agrees
      .

      • LFO on 18/10/2023 - 13:04

        The installer of our Powerwall 2 (and solar, of course) warn us that the Powerwall + Gateway is not instant as an UPS would.
        Haven't checked as I have a modified APC UPS.

        Have you checked if performs instantly like a UPS would?
        Just curious to know.

        • Nugs on 18/10/2023 - 13:46

          It has done, but not everytime. Most times the clock radio doesn't reset
          Good to have both, UPS for non shutdown of pc and powerwall for ongoing interruption i.e. blackouts or six hour electricity network maintenance as we have had. We installed powerwall after the statewide blackout five odd years ago, being reliant on electric pump for our rain water (no mains). Luckily our modem is on one of the powerwall backup circuits
          .

  • Rob-4x4 on 18/10/2023 - 08:32
    +1

    I just use a UPS for NBN box & my comms rack (Router, switch etc). If I ever decide I need more time I would just get a higher capacity UPS.

  • cfuse on 18/10/2023 - 08:38
    +1

    A while ago I bought a battery box, charger, inverter, and 100Ah lithium battery on sale. About a grand. I have a CPAP and I like to be able to breathe. Internet would be an added bonus.

    If I had regular outages I'd spend the money and get a generator too.

  • tonydav on 17/11/2023 - 07:34
    +2

    To update on what I finally did.

    As I already had a 100ah AGM battery (used to power my Engel in my car) I wired this in via some soldered Anderson connections to an Eaton 3S (powerboard style UPS) that had a dead battery. Actually works really well.

    I think it would be better to use a higher end UPS as they produce a lot better quality output but most of those are 24V meaning the need to purchase 2 matching batteries. So at this point I'll stick with this. In testing, between the AGM battery (and I only run it down to about 10.5V) and the existing UPS I'll get at least 12-16 hours powering the UDM and NBN FTTP box (finally installed).

    If it's going to be a longer power outage than that I'll fire up the generator and piss off my neighbours.

    FWIW, since those 2 outages I mentioned in my initial post we've had no further outages so not hugely common but annoying when it does happen.

    • geekcohen on 18/11/2023 - 08:04

      Glad to hear it and sounds like a good overall DIY solution.

      If it's going to be a longer power outage than that I'll fire up the generator and piss off my neighbours.

      This is my theory too, just don't have the piss off the neighbours part.

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