Hi guys,
just wondering if anyone has any experience / know of people who rent out their address so you are considered 'in the zone' for high schoool?
Whats the process, how much is it, etc?
Whilst the school im targetting is NOT super popular (e.g. Mckinnon) it is still 'sort of' full … any suggestions?
I don’t think that is right. What if you just legitimately moved there. The state can’t make you attend Torquay High because that is where you lived last month.
you said "Lot of"
I’d go back and edit your comment, because I am also reading “Some” as “Lots of”, but each to their own.
Now I see why you’re named 87% because 87% of your comments are straight bull$#!+.
i’ve never experienced that ever
State Government education policy (at least in Victoria) — if you apply to enrol your children in a school, they are required to check whether your residential address is within their 'zone'; If you are, they must accept your enrolment, even if they have exceed their department-assessed capacity; If you are outside of that zone, they will offer you places if they have additional unmet capacity, which is determined class-by-class, on the teacher-student ratio. They may make exceptions such as disadvantaged/special needs/children with siblings already enrolled in that school.
McKinnon has had a long-standing issue with families moving to the area purely for enrolment, late in 2023 they announced a tightening of their definition / checks on which families were located in the zone — Apparently, many rent in McKinnon/surrounding for a year then move again, or sub-let the property whilst continuing to live much further away.
Catholic schools have a similar policy, but they are not as strict in enforcing it. Private/secular schools rarely have zoning policies.
McKinnon is one of the most sought after schools in Melbourne
Cool, but the OP clearly said they are NOT targeting a super popular school like Mckinnon.
Whilst the OP clearly stated they where NOT targeting McKinnon, you have now made it clear to everyone that I didn't go to McKinnon. I'm now sitting in the corner.
I think you will be OK if you move house and live at the address, even if you plan to move again in future. I think anything less than that is potentially fraud, and could be a false declaration if they make you sign a stat dec.
Some High Schools in SA will cross check with the Electoral Roll.
A year 8 coordinator, from a high demand school, (when SA had Yr7 in Primary) told me that she physically visited the enrollment address, particularly if they were suspicious for any reason. Regularly caught out fraudulent enrollments.
Yep, we do more than that too. We ask for a tonne of paperwork like utilities etc. Hard to fake it now. We do get ones that are landlords using tennants address or families sharing etc but they then get doorknocked.
And there's still no guarantee either. For example, dozens eligible for Adelaide and Botanic got pushed to Underdale due to numbers.
Was definitely a thing in the past. Now not so sure with technology the way it is.
i did it only a few years ago and no problems
Whats the process, how much is it, etc?
It will depend on the school, the more popular the school, the more checks they do.
For our high school they wanted a rates notice or rental agreement in our name, as well as a utility bill in our name.
Yet another case of someone trying to rort the system
People wouldn't need to rort the system if education was properly funded and we all had access to high quality free education.
This guy thinks that quality education comes from funding
That’s true. They are rotting the system. Have you stopped to consider why or are you merely just a surface level thinker? I don’t have kids but if I did, I’d consider it my duty to ensure that they had a decent education so I would have confidence that they could actually think logically and deeply.
Why should one kid get better state education than another just because of their address? If people are going to these lengths then something is very wrong with the school system. Don’t blame the parent blame the system.
Parents ARE part of the system. When parents tolerate nonsense from schools they are directly blame. The rot starts from within. If you dont take an interest in your own kids education noone else will.
You would the school would notice when there is 50 kids at the school from the same address. Easier to rent some tiny apartment in area?
Easier to rent some tiny apartment in area?
Even easier to just send the kids to the school your zone to, rather than trying to 'rort' the system.
not always , some schools are totally crap and i’ve never sent any of my kids to their local high school , i’ve always used a relatives address to get my kids into different schools
not always , some schools are totally crap
I never said they are better, I said it was easier.
i’ve always used a relatives address to get my kids into different school
So you like to live in cheap areas and then use other schools by abusing the system?
Sounds like great values to be teaching your kids…. not.
@JimmyF: where exactly is a “cheap” area in sydney ?? no i just didn’t like our local school and wanted my daughter to go to single sex school and one son didn’t want to go to local high school …
when they got accepted i changed my address back to mine ..
how would my kids of even known what i was doing ? also i don’t really care if it’s “values” or not they went to better schools and now the ones that have finished school all work and not sitting on centrelink so did something right ..
no i just didn’t like our local school and wanted my daughter to go to single sex school and one son didn’t want to go to local high school …
So why not move to that area instead and do it above board, instead of scamming the system?
when they got accepted i changed my address back to mine ..
So scammed the system
how would my kids of even known what i was doing ? also i don’t really care if it’s “values” or
LOL kids learn values from their parents…. Yours seem pretty questionable and you showed your true colours with the 'don't care' as long as you what you want right?
all work and not sitting on centrelink so did something right
What!? Thought you would have been working and claiming centrelink payments!
@TrustNoBody: Nothing about being pure, its about having a moral compass.
There are reasons you have to live in the area, but you 'bypass' that by using another address to get what you want.
They usually ask for you to provide council rates or utility bills as proof of residency.
Apply for out of catchment admission.
easier said then done , they generally knock ppl back ..
Depends. We've had success doing it for high school and primary school for both our kids.
yes very true ..i just got my youngest into a out of area school but i think the reason being was i was able to get him into their preschool which is attached to the school and got to know the principal and teachers n had a meeting with the principal and just stated my case and that how he was originally accepted into the preschool too and plus they have steps they follow and due to us coming from indigenous background and pretty high up there to get accepted for out of area schools ..
This. They rarely knock back a genuine reason. I sent my kids to a school with 3 others being closer. I rang, spoke with admin, then principal, then admin again who told me how to do the out of area application.
I suspect if you just filed one out of the blue without contacting that would be different. FWIW the school I wanted was also “kinda full”- probably closer to very full.
Sure
Use this link, enter postcodes in the school catchment areas and submit a rental application
Daddy, what does fraud mean?
It means doing what our government does, my sweet child …
OP - can I just strongly suggest against you doing this?
What you are doing is not just fraudulent, but committing fraud on behalf of someone else. That person happens to be your child. Someone you are responsible for. What sort of example does this set for your child?
You are claiming that your child lives at an address that they do not live at. This puts them in an incredibly difficult situation - if the school asks your child where they live, they must now be dishonest. What about if they want to have some friends over, how do they explain to their friends that they are not "in the zone"? What if the school finds out about the deception, how will your child face their teachers, their friends / peers, and explain why they're being kicked out? Or will your child have to lie and just say that they're "moving"?
Have you considered the long term consequences of forcing your child to be dishonest to the people who are closest to them (their teachers, their peers…etc.)?
I can only speak from my own experience as a teacher who has worked at a school with rather strict zoning. No, generally the school does not go "Sherlock Holmes" on you, but it's very easy to cross-check these things. Our school leadership was told to start looking into the matter when the Department of Education realised that there were far more enrolments at our school vs. what they had predicted in our zone. In every single case that was discovered (and there were many), the students involved were highly embarrassed and ashamed - their peers eventually found out (kids always talk), and this sort of behaviour was always harshly judged (kids have a strong sense of justice).
For the love of your own child, don't put them through this. FWIW, I'm sure that your local school is likely not that much different from a school not that far away in another zone.
once they are accepted into the school then you just change your address back to your normal address or that’s what i’ve always done
That's not how it works, you'll be asked to move. Might have worked in the past, but certainly not anymore.
i did it less then 2 years ago and was definitely not told to move schools ..
I've read many comments in WA that the school actually makes home visits to check if the kids have a bedroom there, feels intrusive but I guess that's where it's at
what happens if they door knock during the day when most people are working and wouldn’t be home to answer the door or just doesn’t answer the door ? surely they wouldn’t ask to actually come inside your house and look around ? i would slam the door in their face.
This is an incredibly sensible and thought out response to an issue that is way more nuanced than the OP and many others understand. Upvote.
I remember reading someone's experience recently. Just found the post :
Don't do it. I'll give you 3 good reaaons:
I let someone do this at my address - western suburbs (yes they got caught) - the school were suss from the get go, but the kid can't always be expected to lie about where they live. Particularly in yr 7. The kid was expelled and it rained a sh*tstorm down on me with the education department.
All public high schools have "issues" even the "good ones" and I am surrounded by "the good ones"
Teaching your kid to lie isn't a great idea. Plus they require more than a private lease. They've cottoned on - they'll want your drivers license, a utility biill, and then a third form of ID with the address.
It's fraud Hun. And yes the school will find out. My friend copped a suspension for 2 months ths from school altogether x
This post sounds dubious. Why world they suspend the kid from schooling for 1 minute let alone 2 months for something they had zero control over?
they definitely wouldn’t do that at all ..it’s not the child filling out the forms it’s the parent and nothing legally can happen as i’ve done it a lot of times over the years and was going to do it again this year to get my son into kindy but they accepted him out of area last year for their preschool part of the school and usually once you’re in the preschool u get a spot at the school so i made my face known a fair bit with the teachers n staff n he got in
What do you mean nothing can legally happen, you can get charged with fraud depending on what documents you provided. Child can definitely be removed from the school once it's found out their address is fake.
@MeesusEff: Sure, but they wouldn't be expelled from a school then be suspended from "school altogether" for 2 months which is what the post I was replying to said. They would be able, and obliged to, enrol in their local school.
@spurf: Yeah I got a little lost on that part. But kid ended up having to go back to their own local school
@MeesusEff: i seriously doubt a school is going to go to length to charge you with fraud and they would have to have a lot of proof to actually get found guilty beyond reasonable doubt…
how would they actually prove you never lived at the place if it’s a relatives place ?
@TrustNoBody: If you read my post below, they found their actual lease agreement and police confirmed the driver's license address. If you bypass those by a stat Dec then that's real trouble if you lied. I've read multiple comments from different people where the school rep/s dropped by to check if the child is there or has a bedroom there.
Might not be as serious where you are, but it's pretty serious in WA, I'm guessing at specific sought after catchments as every tom dick and Harry will try to get their kids there. My parents stay behind a top 10 school in Australia and I wouldn't do it myself. Although she does have a room at theirs.. 😂
@MeesusEff: yeah i’m in sydney ..i suppose if it’s a really really sort after public school then they probably have to go to great lengths to be able to just accommodate the in area kids that they have to take in even if there’s room or not ..if you’re going to go to the extent of saying you live at a different address then you have to have all bases covered like drivers licence , electrol roll and even bills in your name ..
Because they were enrolled under false circumstances? And she wrote expelled not sure what the 2 months suspension was about, here's her other comment
"it's okay I knew the risks (I tried to convince her otherwise but she wouldn't be swayed). As I said they were suspicious because things like just talking about the local area etc - her son had no idea (not his fault)!!! Then when it came to things like (little silly things) like your address in geography and mapping the streets around your house (this was the first red flag) he used his own home and address…. they overlooked. Then it came to play dates for teenagers (not playmates but you know what I mean). He would have to have friends at my place (I didn't mind) but then he obviously didn't have a room etc and wanted friends at his own place (entirely normal!) For sleepovers etc. So other parents became aware…. the school called me in first and had a representative of the education department present. I got hammered with questions, so I said the child stayed with me mid week. But they knew this wasn't true as they'd already interviewed the child. So then they dug into the paperwork. They found she had a lease in another suburb and DoT via police confirmed her driver's license wasn't my address. This all took about 8 weeks. Her son ended up having to go back to the school he had left…. that was a disaster. But you know what? He ended up settling back at the school he had left and was so much happier because his friends were all nearby! Sending your child to a school far from home has its own challenges. Also you are essentially asking your child to live a lie? Imagine how stressful it will be for your kid everyday trying to remember they live (apparently) at a fake address? And then guess what? If kids at the new school find out? (And they always do)… you child will be bullied even worse - for being a liar, kids are cruel they may say your child has no right to be there etc….. thankfully she hadn't forged any paperwork. Eg yes I had signed a private lease agreement as had she. But there was no stat Dec and no other fraudulent documents…. she was almost charged for fraud (and she didn't have any fake documents or doctored documents). I took the fall for the private lease agreement. I said she had planned to move in with us with her son - hence she enrolled him in the school - but then at the last minute decided not to move. The school let it slide for me (not her) as they knew me and they knew I'd been in a severe DV situation and it wasn't unfathomable I would take in a mum and her child. Let's just say the stress wasn't worth it. It cost me a friendship (she believed I should have kept lying and pushed it further- but given my experience as a mum of 5 over many years dealing with schools - I knew the game was up). Yes police charges were threatened against her etc (not me). I know it seems like a really simple option and it probably also feels like once her child is enrolled it's set and forget). The reality is - thus isn't the case. Likewise, as the kid is in yr 7 - there's noway possible she will get away with lying for the next 5 years. Also while you may currently think it's best for your child? Trust me going to school "far from home" in a different area - is very stressful for the child"
sounds suss & bikies
It's unlikely to work.
I'm in my 40's and even well over 20 years ago, Balwyn High used to investigate suss enrolments. I recall a number of people being made to leave as the family used their grandparents or uncle/other relative address. Pretty sure the "investigation" included the kids being followed to see where they lived.
My own brother tried to last minute enrol my nephew into East Donny High as our family home is in the catchment. The enrolment was rejected despite our names along with our parents also being included on the title. The enrolment might have gone through if they thought ahead and changed back the address on license, electoral roll and had utility bills in their name.
Also was a hard no unless there is legal confirmation that our parents had court ordered guardianship of their grandchild.
The irony is that my brother's property is in Doncaster East, but not in the zone and was still a hard no.
yes you definitely have to have all your ID ect changed before you apply
in Victoria there is also principals discretion to accept children from outside zones …. if the child has potential, a few more doors will open
Are you asking about "fake rent" or a "real rent" through usual RE agent (in which of course you have to pay real rent)?
Interesting topic. Shows what parents would do for their children with whatever it takes.
Private schools way too expensive.
And don’t say that every public school are equal quality becoz they clearly are not. Some are completely crap while some are better than high fee Privates.
If state government don’t want these to happen, then stop doing a statistical analysis on all the schools rankings in terms of their results. If they say every school teacher have same qualities, then the student result should not fluctuate too much at all. They compare, we see it and by human nature we will tend to do whatever to go to the better ones.
Whilst it’s not the best to fraud, but in reality it happens everywhere in the world not just for school.
I guess the other option is to enhance your children to excel in a specific area and opt for selective entry either for sport or musical or academic. I am sure the school will not hesitate to accept you if your children are special. But that would come with aaaaa lot of hard work from the family too.
That being said, I would still do something similar if it was for my own children.
And don’t say that every public school are equal quality becoz they clearly are not.
I've worked across a lot of public schools, and have done academic research which looks at various dimensions of school performance.
What our research found was that the primary drivers of school performance were not actually the schools themselves, but they were factors beyond the control of the school.
The best predictors of academic success are things like parental education, wealth, ethnicity / culture…etc. It's no surprise that the highest performing schools are all located in upper-middle class suburbs, where you have highly educated immigrant populations, many of whom are from cultures that value high performance in education. Changing to a different public school does not necessarily imply that your child will perform better academically.
In other words, when a public school does well, it's because of its catchment as opposed to it doing something different to other public schools who may not be as "lucky" in their catchments.
The reality is that if you want to help your children succeed, there are just simply better ways to invest your money than hiring a fraudulent address. Buy them textbooks and workbooks, send them to tuition, get them involved in extra-curricular activities…etc.
Whilst it’s not the best to fraud, but in reality it happens everywhere in the world not just for school.
If that's the standard that you go by, it's perfectly fine to do a whole bunch of other crimes as well. Hey, what's the point in paying for my groceries at the local Coles. Might as well just walk out with it - "whilst it's not hte best to [steal], but in reality it happens everywhere in the world".
Wait, what? Are you saying that there is no example at all where a relatively "high performing" school is located in lower-middle class suburbs?
Are you saying that there is no example at all where a relatively "high performing" school is located in lower-middle class suburbs?
I'm not familiar with other states, but at least in Victoria, there two variables are related.
The highest performing non-selective public high schools (based on either % of study score > 40, or Median Study Score, which are the publicly available metrics) are McKinnon Secondary College, Balwyn High School, East Doncaster Secondary College, University High School, Glen Waverley Secondary College - all of which are in (basically) upper-middle class suburbs.
Just because two variables are related does not mean that there are "no examples at all" where it is not true. E.g., smoking and lung cancer are related, obviously it does not mean that all smokers will end up getting lung cancer.
Lot of schools say you have to have lived in the address for “x number of years”