Living Only Using Cash - Is It No Longer Possible?

bargain huntress on 22/01/2024 - 21:43

I have been considering trying ditching the plastic and the online banking and going cash only.
For a couple of reasons:
To resist the imposition of a cashless society - use it or lose it.
And there are numerous budgeting systems where people use cash only. For some people the physical cash is the psychological thing they need to stay on budget. David Ramsay's Envelope System is probably the most famous.

I was planning to test out paying bills at Australia Post.

Well look what they've done:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12990531/Aussie-out…

'Some billers charge a bill-payment fee for bills paid in person,' Australia Post told Yahoo.

'Australia Post charges the utility for processing the payment and it is common for companies to pass this onto the customer,' Telstra said.

Both blaming each other of course

Financial

Comments

  • Wiadro on 22/01/2024 - 22:22
    +17

    ohh yes the monday troll forum post

    • kerfuffle on 23/01/2024 - 08:09
      +8

      It's the OP; have you seen their post history?

      • Wiadro on 23/01/2024 - 08:32
        +2

        yea reminds me of some of the special people I used to manage at work

      • bargain huntress on 23/01/2024 - 11:04
        -1

        @kerfuffle Why have you become my ozbargain paparazzo?

  • ihfree on 22/01/2024 - 22:24
    +7

    Possible - yes
    Practical - no

  • SpicyPeanut on 22/01/2024 - 22:31
    +16

    In 20 years time, there'll be a post asking if it's still possible to use your phone or card to tap and pay and all the comments will be "get with the times grandpa, it's 2044, just use your implant and blink twice at the cashier"

    • Muzeeb on 22/01/2024 - 22:36
      +22

      I winked twice at the cashier and she got security on to me claiming I was a dirty old man.

      • Wiadro on 22/01/2024 - 22:53
        +1

        seems legit

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 22/01/2024 - 23:05

        seems legit That makes sense. Cheers.

    • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 23/01/2024 - 10:40

      666

    • NoisyMiner on 24/01/2024 - 14:49

      It’s gonna be DNA, spit on this reader please to provide credits

  • nubzy on 22/01/2024 - 22:56
    +4

    Never stopped using cash and never will. Card really only gets used for online purchases.

  • Dollar General on 22/01/2024 - 23:00
    +3

    Still a lot of cash circulating in the economy, particularly $50 & $100 notes

    https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/annual-reports/rba/2022/….

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 22/01/2024 - 23:06
      +2

      Got to have an emergency pineapple or two tucked away in the back of the wallet.

      • bargain huntress on 22/01/2024 - 23:22
        -3

        Pineapple?

        • Dollar General on 22/01/2024 - 23:32
          +2

          $50 note

          • Mugsy on 23/01/2024 - 07:14
            +3

            @Dollar General: I prefer minties myself.

            • DashCam AKA Rolts on 23/01/2024 - 07:31
              +8

              @Mugsy: With places not having so much cash on hand, a pineapple is less of a hassle in getting change. Sometimes a lobster is more convenient.

        • Hasbulla on 23/01/2024 - 10:39
          +10

          this is when I stopped reading this post
          OP brags about cash, is not aware of pineapple meaning

    • bargain huntress on 22/01/2024 - 23:25

      $50 and $100 are used for cash storage though. Not necessarily circulating per se

      • Dollar General on 22/01/2024 - 23:27
        +4

        Correct. Just pointing out a cashless society is occuring mainly due to consumer preferences and not the lack of notes available

      • cloudy on 23/01/2024 - 06:22
        +2

        I can tell by your line of questioning you really dont know what is happening.

        There’s a small but consistent group who use cash, and when large purchases occur they are still using cash. Yes even bills( and bills are not even large).

    • Malik Nasser on 23/01/2024 - 08:33
      +1

      Latest data of cash in circulation can be found on the RBA's balance sheet.
      At close of business on Wednesday, 17 January 2024: Australian notes on issue: $102,159 million.
      You can also download the XLS for historical data (A1 – RBA Balance Sheet) which shows weekly updates.

  • 7ekn00 on 22/01/2024 - 23:29
    +8

    Where I am in Texas we use a 1oz stamped silver square as a "barter coin" (can be purchased from local metallurgists for $20 per) ;)

    The farmers will take one "barter coin" for 4 dozen eggs, 4 pounds of cheese, a gallon of cream or 4 gallons of milk …

    The hicks will take one "barter coin" for a gallon of moonshine …

    Can get the whole yard neatened up for two "barter coins" …

    Can get a carton of bullets for one "barter coin" ..

    It's a nice system because, so far, it's been immune to inflation, shrinkflation, centralization and rate-hikes!!

    • Ugly on 23/01/2024 - 06:53
      +5

      Sounds a bit like the John Wick economy.

    • xylarr on 23/01/2024 - 09:32
      +13

      Sounds like money

      • miicah on 23/01/2024 - 10:17
        +3

        Don't forget the extra steps!

      • Antikythera on 23/01/2024 - 12:30

        if you cant pay taxes with it it doesn't count as money.

    • bargain huntress on 23/01/2024 - 11:16
      +1

      That's so cool!

      I learnt a while ago the US has a long history of private currencies:

      https://youtu.be/l7hZjV2rsbQ

      Would that be legal to do in Australia?

    • SlickMick on 23/01/2024 - 14:07
      -1

      Interested in going into business with me? I want to sell fake 1oz stamped silver squares to Texan's, but need someone on the ground.
      I can provide them to you for $15 a piece.

      • 7ekn00 on 23/01/2024 - 15:09
        +3

        Try it in Texas ;) Betting you won't make it out the bar :P

    • bargain huntress on 23/01/2024 - 21:11

      Do you think we could use these here?

      https://www.perthmint.com/shop/bullion/?page=1&pageSize=12&q…

    • smartazz104 on 24/01/2024 - 10:19
      +1

      Sounds like Texas is preparing to secede from the rest of the US; they already have their own currency ready…

      • bargain huntress on 25/01/2024 - 15:00

        California talks about it too

        I think its just talk

  • Nutrino on 22/01/2024 - 23:35
    +3

    bargain huntress…. [roll.eyes]

  • altomic on 23/01/2024 - 00:49
    -1

    "cAsH is KinG" -AGWWPTBB

  • prodrome on 23/01/2024 - 04:11
    +8

    cash - the new antivaxxer/nutter crusade.

    One hole in their deranged argument is the idea cash is free for business.

    10 years ago, we'd have to pay someone 1 hour / day to stand in line at the CBA to bank cash.

    • franco cozzo on 23/01/2024 - 05:00
      -2

      Will digital currency be programmable?
      That could be a reality in the future. That's because the digital currency we could be using in the near future will be programmable. Along with being able to represent monetary value and ownership, programmability of digital currencies could unlock new types of transactions.12 Dec 2023

      oh you like the idea of programmable currency and a cbdc? how about a social credit score while youre at it?
      whos the nutter exactly?

    • Malik Nasser on 23/01/2024 - 08:50
      +3

      So every digital transaction is free with no expense to either the customer or the business? No credit card fees?
      If a company is providing a service, they still want their cut.
      There is an expense, for all transaction types.

      Digital payments are more convenient, but you are also giving up privacy (which most people currently don't care about - until something goes wrong, like hacks, fraud, etc…).
      With cash, settlement is instant and final, and there is no concern to the customer if the merchant has their systems compromised / hacked.

      • prodrome on 23/01/2024 - 09:28
        +1

        The idea cash is cheaper is a Facebook conspiracy theory that is not true.

        eftpos/payid is cheaper and safer (for a business). It is safer and cheaper largely because we don't have to manage $1000s in cash at businesses.

        Armed robberies are virtually extinct* in business as a result.

        It would be good to see some sensible regulation around fees and privacy - but this antivaxxer-esque cash conspiracy is just silly.

    • trapper on 23/01/2024 - 13:33
      +1

      10 years ago, we'd have to pay someone 1 hour / day to stand in line at the CBA to bank cash.

      Now they instead pay a few percent of their entire turn-over in bank fees.

      • prodrome on 23/01/2024 - 13:43
        +4

        small percentage for Visa/Mastercard/PayPal.
        zero percent for EFTPOS (pay for terminals)
        zero for PayID

        It is much cheaper.

  • DingoBilly on 23/01/2024 - 06:07
    +5

    It just seems so much more convenient going digital, not to mention you're giving up thousands of dollars worth of reward points and the like per year.

    Just from the rewards points alone I think it's worth being cashless, let alone from the fact you save a ton of time not having to wait in lines/go to banks for cash/dont have to worry about your cash being physically stolen or lost.

    It's possible but makes zero logical sense to do cash only.

    • kraigg on 23/01/2024 - 08:07
      +4

      You don't really have to wait in line at the bank to get cash anymore. Fortunately it isn't as inconvenient as it used to be. There are ATMs everywhere, and competing banks don't charge you a few anymore. You can even do cashout at the supermarket when you do your grocery shopping.

      Also, if I have $1000 in cash on me and I get robbed, I lose $1000. If my bank account gets hacked or scammed, through my own fault or a third party company I've been a customer of, I can lose my entire life savings.

      • Malik Nasser on 23/01/2024 - 08:56
        +5

        A couple of things;
        1. Dont keep your wealth in cash. Only keep enough money in the bank / cash to cover a few months of expected expenses. Your wealth should be in assets (some liquid assets if you expect to need the funds in less than one year). Cash loses value constantly (look at your loss of buying power over the last couple of years).
        2. If you want to keep a lot of money in the banks, spread the risk by opening accounts with multiple banks.
        You can implement multiple risk management strategies to stop you from losing everything in case of hacked or scammed accounts.
        Use 2FA / MFA security on all online accounts (where available).

        • richadam on 23/01/2024 - 09:54

          Cash is king only for those who don't have a lot of wealth.

        • kraigg on 24/01/2024 - 09:16

          That's good advice. You're right about 1) with risk of inflation and loss of buying power over time. But what would you recommend as assets that are generally risk-free or low risk? I was thinking shares and ETFs, and I do have some, but they do carry some risk.

          • Malik Nasser on 25/01/2024 - 08:23
            +2

            @kraigg: Everything carries risk.
            Shares and ETFs are considered high risk due to the volatility. However the longer the holding period the greater the probability of a positive return (based on index investing).

            There are numerous investments available, it all depends on your risk profile, holding period, required liquidity, personal requirements, emotional shortcomings (will you sell low if there is a market crash?), etc…

            I prefer index ETFs. Just buy and never sell (so dont sell if there is a market crash). Only ever sell if you really need the money (or better yet, see if you can use the ETFs as collateral for a loan, so dont need to pay tax if ETF is sold at a gain).
            The ETFs I prefer cover a range of different markets (Core holdings):
            VAS - Vanguard Australian Shares INDEX ETF (covers the Australian market)
            MVE - Vaneck S&P/ASX Midcap ETF (covers Australian mid cap market, and generally outperforms VAS)
            IVV - Ishares S&P 500 ETF (covers the American market)
            NDQ - Betashares Nasdaq 100 ETF (covers American big technology)
            IIND - Betashares India Quality ETF (covers India top 50)
            VGS - Vanguard MSCI INDEX International Shares ETF (covers global companies but is highly weighted to America ~75%)
            GOLD - Global X Metal Securities Australia Ltd (covers gold exposure)

            Other more concentrated ETFs which can add some thematic exposure, that has performed well over the last 10 years, and add as a satellite holding (smaller weighting):
            IXJ - Ishares Global Healthcare ETF
            MOAT - aneck Morningstar Wide Moat ETF
            HACK - Betashares Global Cybersecurity ETF

            There is also property, if you have the funds available to enter the market.

            You can also look at listed income funds (private credit) if you need cash income:
            MOT - Metrics Income Opportunities Trust (currently paying about 9% p.a)
            MXT - Metrics Master Income Trust (currently paying 8-9% p.a. - lower risk than MOT)
            GCI - Gryphon Capital Income Trust
            QRI - Qualitas Real Estate Income Fund

            Otherwise there is bank savings account / term deposits, which are paying around 5% (low risk, up to $250K government guarantee on ADIs)
            https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/145iM6uuFS9m-Rul65--e…

            It all depends on you, what you are looking for, and the risk you are willing to take.

      • DingoBilly on 23/01/2024 - 10:55
        +3

        Not sure I understand your examples.

        If you're using an ATM then your money is digital already? OP was literally saying physical cash only. If it's via ATM then it's already digital, and therefore it has the same issues of being hacked or scammed. If your money is mostly cash then it's actually much easier to lose your life savings than having it digital. The caveat is that digital usually has limits and checks with things like 2FA, so it's definitely safer than physical cash. I haven't accidentally lost $50 in my savings account, but definitely have a few times in real life.

        And you don't address the fact you're still losing 1000's of dollars worth of bonuses and rewards. Not sure why you're upvoted as you really don't make a strong point at all.

        • Malik Nasser on 23/01/2024 - 12:59

          Just a clarification for you:
          Physical cash (even from ATM's) is legal tender, which is created by the RBA, and is a liability of the RBA.
          Digital money is NOT legal tender, and is created by the bank which issues it, and is a liability of the bank that has issued it (bank = commercial bank NOT central bank).

          They all function pretty much interchangeably when the financial system is running smoothly, so for most most people these points are moot, but just a FYI.
          However in a financial meltdown, legal tender as issued by the central bank is preferred (as you are not reliant on a commercial bank to be solvent to get your money back).

      • SlickMick on 23/01/2024 - 14:19

        Oh we've taken this to a new level. So all cash is kept under the mattress, which is good when deflation makes interest rates go negative, but not so much otherwise.
        I would love to see you buy a home. By then you'd need a ladder to get into bed, and hire a removalist to deliver the cash to the conveyancer.

      • whatgift on 23/01/2024 - 19:25

        Bank ATM'S are fast disappearing, and most of the non-bank ATM'S charge fees. If you need large sums of money for big purchases, an ATM can't be used for that.

    • bargain huntress on 23/01/2024 - 10:59

      Good points

      I dont have a high enough income or spend enough money to make australian credit cards worthwhile in terms of points vs fees at this point

      I'm also not the best at managing credit

      • SlickMick on 23/01/2024 - 14:23

        I rarely pay fees. For organisations that charge credit card surcharge, I use debit card. I avoid businesses that charge a fee to use eftpos.

        • bargain huntress on 23/01/2024 - 16:52

          Dont all the reward programs have an annual fee?

          I dont spend enough a year to get more than the annual fee in points

          • gromit on 24/01/2024 - 00:20

            @bargain huntress: Highly unlikely unless you grow all your own food, dont drive, dont have any insurance and make your own clothing.

          • SlickMick on 24/01/2024 - 00:23

            @bargain huntress: No, I would never pay fees for a credit card. I get Amex and mastercard (through Citibank) points totally free.

  • avoidfullprice on 23/01/2024 - 07:02
    +3

    Pay a visit to say an amish community for a cash only society

    Both blaming each other of course

    Or dailymail didn’t research and pass on the whole fact to you

  • EightImmortals on 23/01/2024 - 07:30
    +1

    You can for a lot of things, mostly your day to day in person shopping and most shopkeepers will thank you for it. But otherwise there is a case for some bills online.

    • bargain huntress on 23/01/2024 - 10:56

      Yes a lot of people seem to mix

      • EightImmortals on 23/01/2024 - 10:58
        +2

        I usually grab a couple of hundred when I'm at the supermarket and use that for buying stuff throughout the week, also a card if the cash runs out. I never use the hone form financial stuff.

  • elgrande on 23/01/2024 - 08:22
    +2

    Digital payments work great, until they don't.

    • Malik Nasser on 23/01/2024 - 09:01
      +3

      Diversification. Use both. Don't rely on only one payment medium.
      Keep some cash on hand, and actually use it from time to time, to ensure merchants continue to support it.
      It is better to have multiple payment options available, as such if there is ever an issue / system outage it doesn't have an outsized affect on you.

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