Why Are Chinese Businesses Always So Stingy and Exploitative?

Before I start the discussion this is not a offense to all Chinese and Asian and I just want to point out that not all the Chinese and Asian business are like this, but quite a decent amount of the Chinese business are always exploiting employees wage.

I have worked in a couple of Asian business at Brisbane usually at real estate and hospitality and the most common one are Chinese that are always so stingy about payments and usually likes to exploit employees.

I have work experience in both Taiwan and Australia and this is based on my work experience.

Taiwan: At Taiwan I was a teacher, teaching English to children and the schools are usually private educations. Before I start the work I will usually be offer a contract or a probation contract for an evidence that the job is legitimate and when I always finish work there will always be a clock-in and clock-out time system for evidence that I'm there. Even if there were no contract at pay day there will always be the pay slip system where I must sign a signature to prove that I was working there.

Australia: I will divide this into two. One is Aussie business and the other is Chinese business.

Aussie business: In most Aussie companies I will always be offer a contract or a job offer notice before I start work I will usually be offer a contract and the contract will have some sort of payment evidence to show that I am paid correctly and legally even a clock in system are displayed. Sometimes most Aussie business even pay you slightly higher than the national wage and weekend rewards. What I feel working there is that my identity is not controlled by the employer and I have the freedom to move around and evidence saying that I was there.

Chinese business: Now this is where most of my problems are. Before I work most employers don't even offer a contract. They will always verbally announce the probation contract such as a 2 week probation. Yes, I know that some job does have probations however, the probation wage is so low like $600 a week that's basically $15 an hour. They told me to work for 8 hours a day at a busy restaurant and the pay is significantly less than the national minimum wage. Even apprenticeship and traineeship has higher salary than this. What's worse is that even when I pass the probation period the employer literally just pretended that the probation never exist and still continues to pay you the $15 hourly wage. Plus there is not clock-in system and the employer is basically the clock-in system itself. The way they paid is always so sketchy like they pay you physically instead of digitally and no tax. Even legitimate business they still pay you the national minimum which is good, but compare to Aussie business that pays you slightly higher than the national minimum. I rather work at a Aussie business than a Chinese business since Chinese business are just so stingy and never level up the pay.

Conclusion
What I'm trying to say is that when I worked at a Chinese business. I feel like I'm being controlled and most of my evidence proving that I was working there is not adequately displayed and worse of all erased. The job is so hard working and the reward you get by working is so low that is around $12 to $15 an hour (btw I was an adult that time, not a teenager). There was no contract or some sort of payment evidence to prove that the payment I get is legally earned. I know that not all of Chinese business is like this and the ones that I worked legally. The pay is still basically stuck at the national wage and doesn't really give you a tiny bit more.

When I worked at Aussies business and Taiwan there will always be some sort of evidence to prove you worked there and payment you get is legal and the Chinese business mostly tries to erased my evidence or at least exploit it.

closed Comments

    • +71

      We're not allowed to mention race or ethnic groups in anything anymore. Reminds me of the toxic people of /r/australia for calling people racist because they said the words "African gangs" in relation to the 70yr old grandmother stabbed.

      • Soon, everyone have a chip in their arms so we'll all be identified by a number. That should fix the 'racist' problem.

        • Is that the next MyMedicare?

        • We'll need to get the number tattooed on the forearm in case the chip reader fails. Don't forget to wear a patch on your arm measuring no less than 4 inches by 4 inches to help identify your ethnicity from a distance.

        • Then the issue would be segmentations according to number ranges hahaha..

          "Those damn triple-digiters are no good"

          "Man, I hate having to go through the 9000 neighbourhood on the way back from work".

          "I'm getting sick of these gang fights between the odds and evens!"

          Actually.. that sounds like it would be a good dystopian sci-fi story.

          • +1

            @choosk: "i will be selling my microchip number its 88888 very popular amongst asians, brings you good luck"

      • +5

        That cause there is different implications based on specific words and the order they're used in. By saying "African Gang" For many you're implying that it's a specific type of gang "African" and it somehow worse or different than a regular gang opposed to what you potentially mean which is a "Gang of people who happen to be all or mostly of African ethnicity".

        I have different social circles(most of them made up of predominately white people), I don't describe them by going "White social group", "Mixed race social group". Can you imagine me saying oh that my "White social group" people would think it a group I am a part of where a bunch of mother (profanity) be dressing in KKK outfit or Nazi uniforms on the regular going to rallies and shit.

        People be like "Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick" because context matters that's why.

        • +1

          That cause there is different implications based on specific words and the order they're used in.

          Something a lot of people fail to understand. Especially in this post.

        • +8

          Gang of people who happen to be all or mostly of African ethnicity

          Most people would call that an African gang, because if they said a "gang of people who happen to be all or mostly of African ethnicity" everyone else would say, "So, an African gang, then?"

          • -4

            @Seraphin7: Or just "a gang" perhaps?

          • -1

            @Seraphin7: Dude, I was just being nice and giving the commenter the benefit of the doubt, you're right "gang of people who happen to be all or mostly of African ethnicity" is not something most people would say because the ethnicity specially breakdown of the individuals ethnicity of a group of criminals has no relevance in general conversation(if you were filing a report to the police I could maybe see the relevance outside of that there really isn't any).

            We all have a pretty damn good idea what is being inferred when the people who would say "African Gang" say it. I mean what if it there one white guy in it? do you think they're going to start saying "Mostly African Gang"? How about "Somewhat African gang"? No they aren't and we know why.

      • +2

        It is racist?

        Me: I was robbed last night!
        Them: Were they black?

        • +1

          You should read ceroau's comment because context is important. My comment can easily be swung in the favour of both sides.

          In the case of the 70yr old it was a group of African teenagers, so asking if they were part of an African gang is a reasonable question and not at all racist.

          Me: I was robbed last night!
          Them: Were they black?

          For the police to find the offender race is an important question to ask when trying to get a physical description. Alternatively if one was to joke they were black because of the stereotype, then yes saying they're racist would be correct.

          So again context is important.

          • +4

            @Clear: Ah okay so now we're getting into bias because the police asking:

            "Were they black?" vs "Do you have a description?" is pretty different.

            • +4

              @miicah:

              "Were they black?" vs "Do you have a description?" is pretty different.

              Correct. For a third time context is important.

              The problem with society now is that the moment you mention race or ethnicity, people come out of the wood work and immediately pull the racism card. That's simply not true all the time. There are times when the race or ethnicity of someone genuinely needs to be questioned.

              I really hope you're not misunderstanding all of this and thinking I'm a racist and trying to defend it.

      • +2

        lol reddit is a cesspool

        • The last few years they've been leaking here. The place isn't the same.

      • -1

        You wouldn't put a polar bear in the middle of the desert, so why would we want to let 3rd world uncivilised humans in! Deport the lot!

        • Was that meant to be a joke about how the country ended up being mostly white people in the first place or was that an accident?

      • +1

        Funny, I stopped going on r/Australia because every second post was about migrants taking jobs/houses/streets etc

        • For a long time it was a Friendlyjordies fan club bagging the Libs nonstop. Now they bag Albanese nonstop. /r/australian is so much better.

    • Is this article considered racist though?

      https://www.fairwork.gov.au/newsroom/media-releases/2024-med…

  • +21

    always so stingy and exploitative?

    always ?

    • +43

      Yes, always. 9 out of 10 racists agree, the other one is probably bashing Muslims.

      • +6

        muslim is not a race.

        • +25

          Sorry, I'm not very good at bigotry and sometimes get my prejudices mixed up.

        • +1

          Woke nonsense

      • +7

        The definition of racism is hate, stating factual information is not racism

        • I think I understand your point, but it is racist to say all Asians are good at math or American First Nations are good at skinning animals.
          These aren't hateful things to say, compliments even, but it is still racism.

          • +2

            @mskeggs: Non hateful words like Asians are bad drivers, that isn't racism, its stereotyping. The difference is, you don't hate Asians but they just cant drive, a lot of them. My best mate is Asian and I am a white Aussie from the first fleet, I don't hate anybody, but I tell my best mate I hate Asian drivers especially the female Asians, they are terrible most of them. I don't hate anybody because of the colour of their skin or where they are from, that is racism.

        • +2

          For instance, sub-saharan Africans have an average IQ of 70. There is an interesting map of worldwide intelligence distribution on the following site: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-i…

          With the exception of Australia and New Zealand and Cambodia, the southern hemisphere is full of dummies. The Brahmin left hates facts. The left wants to reshape the world according to their vision of how things should be. Take the following image: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Window . It depicts the wishes of the Fabian society (founded in 1888) to reshape the world.

    • +9

      Lol yes ALWAYS
      I'm Chinese so I agree with this generalisation. I presume the OP is as well otherwise their post has taken a racist turn…

    • +10

      Yeah:

      I just want to point out that not all the Chinese and Asian business are like this

      then

      Why Are Chinese Businesses Always So Stingy and Exploitative

      Cognitive dissonance much, OP?

      • +3

        In the later usage they are using always to mean "almost all the time" in much the same way that literally can now also mean figuratively.

    • +5

      Yes mason1998 who is probably a 26 Year Old Taiwanese person believes all Chinese businesses are exploitive, cause he has been to all of them.

      Taiwanese people and Chinese people never suffer from any bias when they comment on each other. They are all good friends. -__-

      Things to consider:
      OP has worked at chinese run hospitality businesses, in general, the entire hospitality business lacks pay clarity?, especially I would assume the calibre of business that might hire someone like OP. These are generally low skilled jobs of which most likely many of the owners know this and abuse the system.
      OP comments on working in a school and how that school in Taiwan was not dodgy. Generally, schools are purely administrative systems and without the systems you don't really have a feasible business. They aren't fish and chip shops, they are complex businesses. Businesses at this scale do not need to stinge on pays. Generally, you don't find private businesses would try to rip off highly educated academics - they will do that to dishwashers though.
      You don't get many major Chinese owned or run businesses at a major scale in many western countries as the majority of chinese are first generation migrants who don't have the culture/education of running a 'finely tuned' in line business.
      Many of the 'western' run businesses are generational, being 3rd or 4th generation at least - all of them would have started paying their workers less than ideal wages and conditions.
      You don't expect the guy who just got off the boat to comply with payg or super.
      Just lookup the tax office audits and you'll find plenty of non-chinese run businesses doing the naughty.
      To be honest the calibre of job reflects the calibre of the industry op has been working in, not the race of the business owner.
      OPs experiences are very subjective. OPs comments are completely based on his own experiences and viewpoint.
      Same as in my own subjective experiences, when Taiwanese people complain about Chinese businesses, they always seem to blame it on the chinese part, not the subjective integrity of the actual person themselves. There are many people from China, meaning also a lot of people who don't run an idealistic business. Last time I checked in schools in China, they don't teach how to avoid paying full wages to your employees…

      • This, OP is likely scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of hospitality jobs, where the owners, chinese or not, have a poor level of education or understanding of employment legislations

  • +24

    Always generous with the MSG for me

      • +16

        Ah Jv, we meet again. Do you remember me? We've had this discussion before. You probably have a sodium sensitivity issue.

        • +7

          Do you remember me?

          No

          • +11

            @jv: Ah no mind, anyway. If you've ever had a tomato you've consumed MSG. If you've ever consumed chicken stock - you've had MSG. You're not allergic. You're a fool because what are you gonna do? Are you gonna come out here and do an experiment on which dishes you're allergic to and I'll reveal that none of them have MSG - but you'll tell me that it definitely does. Sure.

            Clearly the toughest of snowflakes out here qq.

              • +2

                @jv: I can relate, I'm only allergic to synthetic bullshit like you find here on OzBargain

                Not the natural bullshit found on the ground

          • -1

            @jv: Lol.

        • +1

          You’re probably wrong. MSG is not found in nature. Natural glumates are found in a totally different isomeric mixture and are NOT uniformly a single isomer of MSG.

          People who think MSG is what you get in a tomato are woefully misinformed.

          • +4

            @CommuterPolluter: MSG absolutely is found in nature. It's what you get when glutamic acid encounters sodium. You'll get other salts as well, but it doesn't really matter since you'll just end up with glutamate ions once it's in water anyway. There are 2 isomers of glutamic acid, but only one of them in the glutamate form triggers your taste buds - given we can taste umami in food, including tomatoes, that isomer must be present in that food.

            • +1

              @Parentheses: You aren’t consuming grams upon grams of free L-glutamate in any natural diet. This is only achievable through chemical processing, because in nature it’s not found in such concentrated form. It will always be accompanied by significant quantities of D-glutamate and bound glumate. Not to mention whatever other chemicals are contained in the particular source of the glutamate.

              Just because somebody doesn’t suffer ill effects from the minor quantities, in natural ratios, found in actual food, that doesn’t mean that consumption of large quantities of chemically-purified monosodium glumate won’t cause problems.

              Frankly I know many people, Australian, Chinese, Vietnamese, who claim to have an aversion to high quantities of MSG. They never complain about table salt.

              • @CommuterPolluter: The 'chemical processing' required to make the MSG you buy is to let natural bacteria make it, toss in some sodium, then let it dry into crystals. That's it. We aren't capable of chemically producing amino acids at scale, we use natural biological processes to do it. You'll also find that the metabolic processes in the body are supremely capable of digesting whatever form of glutamic acid or derivative it encounters, which makes sense considering we literally produce the stuff as part of being alive - it doesn't just get dumped into the bloodstream in whatever form we happen to eat it in.

                Show me peer reviewed evidence to counter the reams upon reams of peer reviewed evidence that says MSG sensitivity is a crock of manure - your anecdotes are meaningless.

                • @Parentheses: If you think crystalline MSG isn’t chemically processed you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about.

                  • +1

                    @CommuterPolluter: MSG is produced via bacterial fermentation of sugar cane and similar crops. It's not a synthetic process.

                    Obviously it needs to be refined, as the resulting "pickle" will have non-MSG components in it, but this is not very different than refining table salt.

                  • +1

                    @CommuterPolluter: If you're heading down that route, then literally everything is 'chemical processing', because everything that is matter is a chemical and there are processes involved in getting it into your mouth. That tomato growing? Chemical processes galore. Kombu growing in the water? You bet your sweet biscuit that's chemical processes. That bacteria making that glutamic acid? What do you know, chemicals definitely involved.

                    Did you have some specific bogeyman activity you think turns the 'natural' stuff into some sort of toxic poison that somehow manages to hide from literally all scientific testing?

                    • +1

                      @Parentheses: @CommuterPolluter The thing is, when you call something "Chemical processing" you get all worked up by it. But if you want to actually play ball. Then a lot of things that you could consider "organic" or "natural" has chemical processes involved in getting it from a factory/plant/farm to your table. You're actively or willingly misunderstanding the process.

                      It's already been explained very well in this thread. Just because something is "a chemical" doesn't make it actively bad for you. Like, just have a look at all the different flavourings and "chemicals" that go into a Big Mac, or a bag of chips.

                      https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/questions-….

                      https://www.greenmatters.com/food/how-is-msg-made

                      But it's ok. I've pasted this stuff into these threads before and your kind literally won't read them because they don't agree with the science it's ok. I've accepted that if you can't read something and change your mind over your position, you're not worth talking to anyway.

                      Clarity: This is directed at CommuterPolluter and jv. Not at Parentheses.

      • +13

        you can't be allergic to MSG

          • +7

            @jv: Just curious, do you get a reaction to glutamic acid as well that's in stuff like tomatoes, mushrooms, certain cheeses etc? Or the MSG used in KFC?

          • +16

            @jv: You might think you are, but you're basically in the same kind of group as people thinking vaccines cause autism - MSG sensitivity is a myth started by a couple of crackpot bad science papers that has been utterly proven wrong. The headache some people think was caused by MSG was actually the result of too much salt and dehydration. Add racism against Chinese restaurants and you have a self-sustaining myth.

            MSG is sodium and glutamate. When it dissolves (say, in saliva) it dissociates and you get that sodium and glutamate independently. Therefore any allergy to MSG by chemical definition can ONLY exist if you were actually allergic to sodium (so no foods with salt of any kind, and you'd probably be dead) or glutamate (beef, chicken, fermented foods, eggs, basically every vegan protein source, worcestershire sauce) - and which is an amino acid (glutamic acid) that the body requires in order to live, and actually produces itself as part of being alive. You would need to be allergic to yourself, and probably be dead.

            And before you point out people needing a low-sodium diet… because MSG tastes more strongly of salt than sodium chloride (table salt), you can actually significantly reduce your sodium intake by replacing sodium chloride with MSG.

            Presumably, you are not dead. Therefore, you aren't allergic to MSG.

          • +1

            @jv: Could be psychosomatic.

            • -4

              @smartazz104: It's not, I've done double-blind tests.

      • +6

        harden up snowflake ❄

    • +1

      I am actually more concerned about vegetable oils in my food than MSG.

      • I'm more concerned about how many times a restaurant has reused their cooking oil.

  • +52

    Chinese fast food takeaway: if I don't see a kid doing their homework at the front counter, I don't want their food.

    • +1

      Are you kidding? That is the authentic, family cooking.
      I will always choose a family run restaurant over a chain, unless I've had a bad meal there.

      • +45

        I believe that is exactly what they're saying.

        • +26

          I must have read it wrong in my haste. Apologies to hasher22 who is also wise in the ways of honest cuisine.

      • +2

        That is the authentic, family cooking

        I have some very shocking news for you about the authenticity of your favourite local Chinese restaurants food offerings 😂

        • +14

          Are you telling me the red sauce and pineapple in my sweet and sour pork isn't authentically from the karst mountains of Chongqing!

      • +4

        At my local Vietnamese restaurant, the owners primary school aged daughter helps serve the customers. Now that's a family business.

        • Might be the same case for the OP working at was his own family's business.

  • +10

    Know your rights before start work it's a good starting point. No matter the business, you are in Australia and are laws. Ask for your rights, if those are not fulfilled then just don't work there but also report them so they can learn their lesson.

    • The problem here is that an employer probably can't place a new employee on below award/reduced wages during probation. The OP accepts, and worked for them anyway. The writing was on the wall, the floor, the windows, and the bars. Small businesses in many States have numerous workplace relations loopholes to abuse, but if you take notes, getting what is due shouldn't be a problem at the end- not that the boss will be happy at that point. If your boss shorts you, and won't pay… note it down, copious, diarised notes!

    • +19

      And what's wrong having English as a second language?

      • +1

        I didn't suggest there was anything wrong with it, I suggested that many of the recent, inflammatory posts seem to be posted by someone with English as a second language. I have every other language other than English as a second language. Of course there's nothing wrong with that.

        • +2

          I think what you meant to say it's that people that have English as second language most likely to get exploited?

          • -1

            @Scrooge McDeal: No. You're trying to put words in my mouth.

            Just noticed some strange posting.. like the Musk thread, Indian Pakistan are not Asian thread, etc.

          • @Scrooge McDeal: This is actually very true too.

        • +1

          You mean, people with English as second language like to post inflammatory topic?

      • +11

        This poster was an English teacher, so one would have hoped they had good proficiency.

        • +1

          Not necessarily. You should have heard the lady teaching English to prep students in Buenos Aires. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

        • Nope. Most english teachers overseas, a great portion of them are locals who have learnt english and gone back. They would not have proficient spoken english as a local here, written I would believe it would be a lot better.

    • +11

      Would go out on a limb here and guess the OP is Taiwanese with a decent english proficiency.

      Thus the work in Taiwan and experience getting ripped off in Australia by Chinese owned businesses.

  • Cash is king. Some small businesses like to deal in cash so they don't have to declare their true P&L to avoid paying tax. Similarly, being paid in cash means you might get a lower hourly rate, but also it isn't counted towards your taxable income. Swings and roundabouts.

    • +3

      I would agree with this especially with Chinese businesses in hospitality. I know for a fact you can choose to 'migrate' to Australia through agents who will find you housing, investment properties and start up businesses for you so you can qualify for permanent residency. They obviously take a 'commission' in the processes. As a result a lot of the funding for these businesses is cash (potentially laundered through Chinese diplomats). In addition, they obviously would want to deal in as much cash as possible to reduce their burden to the ATO. I mean - who wouldn't?

  • +3

    They told me to work for 8 hours a day at a busy restaurant and the pay is significantly less than the national minimum wage

    I think the problem is Chinese Australians who can't speak English are happy to work in Chinese restaurants and get paid cash in hand and get free leftover food. They pay no tax, so it's equivalent to their net pay and they save on a lot of food cost. So if you're going to work in that environment, you need to accept the conditions that the labour supply is prepared to accept.

    For overseas "students", the pay is probably generous. Their tuition fees are a fixed cost that needs to be covered but then it's high compared to their home country and they aren't renting relatively expensive places to live.

    • +2

      I know several Chinese Australians who would not be happy about being paid illegally - generalising about race is often inaccurate.

      • +1

        Are they fluent in English; do they work in Chinese restaurants?

        I think happy might be the wrong choice of word - maybe accept given their skill set.


        Of course there are other factors at play, such as they way the restaurant chooses to do business itself and how sustainable they are if say the majority operate one way and they decide to go against the grain.

        • +1

          I agree that many staff working for below award, cash wages are often people with visa restrictions or other obstacles to regular employment.
          I don't think generalising about race is very helpful, and is often inaccurate.

      • +3

        The observation is about immigrants who don't have a good command on English language, not specifically Chinese Australians.

        I know several immigrants (not Chinese) and they indeed prefer to work for people who speak their native language because they are hesitant to speak English. As far as I can tell they are not exploited, but it is a fair observation.

      • +1

        Incorrect.

        Most Chinese restaurants in Sydney prefer cash, and some even give you a 5-10% discount for cash because they don't claim it as income and hence dont pay the GST.
        Thai/Chinese Massages same, some have a sign saying discount with cash
        The more subtle ones that dont give discounts simply ask you "Cash or Card"? and if you say 'either', they ask for cash.

        • +1

          Who the f answers ‘either’ to that question? Make up your mind so they know what to press on the till!

        • +1

          So do they give discounted happy ending for cash?

          Would that be call a cash job? Cashier? Cash converter?

  • +13

    Because you let them get away with it. Go work somewhere else.

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