Help Me with a Shortlist of 1st Cars for My Son

CantonasKungFuKick on 13/02/2024 - 11:58

My son has been saving to buy his first car, we (I) do not know anything about cars so trying to get some help other than Google.

Budget is 8k
must be Automatic and based in SA
I'd rather he drove something smaller like a hatchback, but we have a list of several types

any thoughts, and if these are all terrible ideas, what should we be looking for?

He seems to like this one:

2004 Mitsubishi Lancer ES CH Auto - https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2004-mitsubishi-lan…

but this is our shortlist so far:

The plan would be to get a mechanic inspection done, but I hear stories where you pay for this and then the seller sells the car to someone else in the meantime, are there any tips/advice on how best to avoid this?

Is it better to go to a dealer and pay for a warranty, rather than Private?

any help appreciated.

Automotive Car Holden Hyundai Motors Toyota Volkswagen Volkswagen Polo

Comments

brendanm on 13/02/2024 - 12:09

+76

Not a Holden, Cruze and Barina are both terrible. 04 Lancer for that price seems crazy, should be abl to get the latest body shape.
- CantonasKungFuKick on 13/02/2024 - 13:06
  
  Yeah, according to Red Book, the value should be around $4k..
- brifog on 13/02/2024 - 18:30
  
  +23
  
  Would offer 2.5k for the lancer and go up to 3.5k. Seller is never getting close to 7.5k for an 04 lancer.
- Dreamcast on 14/02/2024 - 08:44
  
  +18
  
  Terrible is an understatement!! Avoid the Cruze so all cost. The most unreliable POS!
- OzzyOzbourne on 14/02/2024 - 09:22
  
  +10
  
  Absolutely avoid holden cruze. Friend got one for 10k from a dealer, spent another 10k fixing it after the warranty expired over 3 years
- Clain on 14/02/2024 - 20:54
  
  +5
  
  Agreed with brendanm here, steer clear of Holden Cruze, as far away as you possible can.
  - MementoMori on 17/02/2024 - 09:26
    
    Wow… just drove one that snapped a timing belt at 110,000kms. Engine screwed. I had no idea they had a bad wrap. Chevy Malibu btw…
luedriver on 13/02/2024 - 12:14 Comment score below threshold.
- Euphemistic on 13/02/2024 - 19:08
  
  +33
  
  Yay for used euro service and parts pricing.
- ninnypoop on 14/02/2024 - 08:59
  
  +12
  
  Good cars but stupid suggestion for first car.
  - Jackson on 15/02/2024 - 23:46
    
    +2
    
    Not even that good really
- barratttc on 14/02/2024 - 11:28
  
  +6
  
  Sure… if your wanna pay $900 to replace brake pads.
  - Matt P on 17/02/2024 - 01:08
    
    BS. I have a 9N3 polo GTI. Replaced pads and rotors all round (parts cost) for under $300. One of the sets of rotors - i think the rears - were clearance but parts prices for that era VWs aren't bad. My 2008 Mazda on the other hand. Bullshit money for parts.
Mechz on 13/02/2024 - 12:15

+32

Get the newest/safest model you can afford, and forget anything with a Holden or VW badge.
Brian McGee on 13/02/2024 - 12:15

+48

Stay away from holdens and Volkswagens, get a reliable Asian made vehicle.
- CantonasKungFuKick on 13/02/2024 - 12:51
  
  Struggling to find one within his price range
  - Jake D on 13/02/2024 - 13:49
    
    +17
    
    Camry
  - RTX9090Ti on 14/02/2024 - 09:55
    
    -4
    
    Get him to ride bus/train instead till he can buy his own car.
  - Monad on 14/02/2024 - 10:04
    
    +21
    
    The reason why you're struggling to find an asian car within his price range is exactly the reason why rebadged holdens and volkswagens are cheaper to buy, they're less reliable (especially the cruize) and getting on in years, cost more to keep running.
    
    Link to Car Sales of cars in SA, broken down to you/your son's budget/requirements:
    
    Carsales
    - virhlpool on 15/02/2024 - 21:46
      
      +2
      
      Ditto. Hyundai entry level models would be a very good first car.. Aim for 2009-2013 model. Cheap but realiable, usually.
  - stringbean402 on 14/02/2024 - 18:17
    
    +5
    
    Find an 08-12 Lancer. The things are bulletproof and cheap to maintain and repair.
    - Ghost47 on 14/02/2024 - 18:34
      
      +1
      
      Good choice. CJ Lancer with the 4B12 motor.
      
      The only concern with those Lancers would be the paint job, the clear coat tends to wear easily from what I've heard.
      - Minimum chips on 14/02/2024 - 18:50
        
        +6
        
        @Ghost47: It's a first car. He's a male. He'll be thrilled to get a bad wrap job on it to cover the blistered paint.
        
        Ghost47 on 14/02/2024 - 18:50
        
        +2
        
        @Minimum chips: Hahahaha, true.
      - stringbean402 on 14/02/2024 - 19:13
        
        +1
        
        @Ghost47: Not alot of the 4B12 (2.4L) Lancers out there. Vast majority are 4B11 (2.0L)
        
        If you find a 4B12 (2.4L) for the right money jump on it.
        
        Both great engines, bigger engine is much nicer to drive, the extra power is handy, especially in an Auto.
        
        Ghost47 on 14/02/2024 - 19:21
        
        @stringbean402: Hmm you are indeed correct. I just checked Carsales and there's only one CJ Lancer with the 4B12 in SA going for $8.5k and it's in manual, wtf.
        
        I thought they'd be cheaper! Must be increased demand again… And definitely agreed, larger engines are much nicer to drive and well worth the compromise in fuel economy (to an extent anyway).
      - chumumay on 16/02/2024 - 16:16
        
        @Ghost47: Had one, yes, yes it does. Paint just goes to crap.
        the 2.4 was nice to drive with a CVT (the drone isn't for everyone) but the fuel usage for today is rubbish. Was >10l/100km.
  - Jackson on 15/02/2024 - 23:51
    
    Stick to Japanese or Korean, don't even compare with anything euro, it's a trap. And preferably and in line 4 cyl if you are looking at cars with an option for a larger v motor
- FrankAbagnaleJr on 13/02/2024 - 14:46
  
  +14
  
  Yep can confirm VW is not worth the cost of repairs once it starts going.
- WT on 14/02/2024 - 11:54
  
  We had an 06 TDI, only major thing was Duel mass flywheel went out at about 220k, clutch still original and OK, just normal service stuff and one rear caliper seal leaked which was about 100 for a new one rather then messing about with a seal kit. 4.3L/100 on highway with 30 mins of traffic and 6.5 in city, pretty much worse case traffic. No real attention given to driving it economically. would have gotten better if I did a walnut blast. Seen these engines with 500k klms, in the US the 1.9 tdi which the later 2.0 TDI is based on have hit 750k MILES. Friend had a transporter used commercially, he sold it at 500k klms and it was still going strong. So yea, from my experience the 4cyl TDI is the engine to go for in these things, not sure of petrol. Wife would have gone the sq5 but shes only a 10min drive from work, that would give dpf clogging issues always being on cold start
  
  depends on how much he drives a diesel golf/jetta/skoda could be good, get a pre DPF model or if you get a dpf model get the 125kw engine, it will tow a small boat easy (bigger then tinny) and has more torque then v8's of that era. Google dpf problem or cleaning, they are expensive to replace but can be cleaned with varying results or deleted with a tune (not easily detectable but not legal)
  
  Wouldnt get a hyundai or a cruz, might be hard to find jap made at that price point with low klms but SA is different to my local
  - Drakesy on 16/02/2024 - 12:15
    
    It's the ones with EGR's/DPF's that will put you in a world of hurt financially.
Jimothy Wongingtons on 13/02/2024 - 12:27

+22

cant go wrong with camry
barge-in hunter on 13/02/2024 - 12:38

+15

1) Holden Cruze & Barinas were very poor quality to start with - rebadged Daewoo and Brazilian cars (even though some crises were “bolted together “ in Australia - they used poor quality imported parts). Lots of engine, airbag and electronic issues.

2) modern vws are known for poor reliability outside of their warranty periods - vws of this age mainly used a terrible DSG auto gearbox which was the subject of several recalls. Some are fine, but have $5-8k in an emergency gearbox repairs fund if you choose one of these.

3) Hyundai are currently batting a class action for continuing to sell engines that they knew had significant design flaws and regularly suffered catastrophic failures. Some models are fine/good (like the Getz) but the i30s are apparently affected.

So, that leaves you a Hyundai Getz, Mitsubishi lancer or a Toyota Camry. At that age, the Camry will definitely be the most reliable bet - but may still miss out on key safety features like passenger side airbags and abs/traction control.

Tough choices in a tough market. Good luck

Edit - there might be some Honda accord euros in your price range - at this time, Honda were considered the “Mercedes of Japan”, so will be a great option too
- CantonasKungFuKick on 13/02/2024 - 13:08
  
  Thanks for this, wasn't aware the Barinas/Cruze were not great cars, we will get rid of these from the search
  Looking at the Accords and the only ones within his price range have done mid 3's kms which seems high?
  - barge-in hunter on 13/02/2024 - 16:23
    
    True, a low mileage one might be a little out of the $8k price range - I just looked up Civics and it’s the same deal.
- pinchies on 13/02/2024 - 18:12
  
  +4
  
  Seconded #1 and #2.
  +1 for Honda Accord Euro
  
  I would also push for Toyota Corolla/Camry, Mazda 3/6
  - Ghost47 on 14/02/2024 - 18:39
    
    Mazda 3 isn't a bad recommendation either. There are SP25s on Carsales are going for less than $8k, but mileage is somewhat high.
- BartholemewH on 15/02/2024 - 13:35
  
  +1
  
  To clarify the VW gear boxes, I believe the 7 speed / dry clutch DSGs were shit. The 6 speed / wet clutch DSGs were fine. I had a Skoda Superb 206TSI awd with the wet gearbox, never had an issue.
- josaya on 15/02/2024 - 15:16
  
  +2
  
  Our Hondas have been fairly reliable, but alternators, magic seat mechanisms, and door actuators are common failures (likely sun/heat/age related). Main thing would be the entertainment systems being fairly dated.
  
  Mitsubishi or Toyota would be in the same class. Have you looked at the Corolla, Jazz, or Mirage? Anything small and economical, maybe even with parking sensors? Fuel was a major pain point for me in uni, and it was only 70c/L back then!
blonky on 13/02/2024 - 12:50

+26

i30 is the obvious choice
- FrankAbagnaleJr on 13/02/2024 - 14:46
  
  +2
  
  Second this. Great little cars, affordable repairs and servicing.
- barge-in hunter on 13/02/2024 - 16:22
  
  +4
  
  I used to think the same - unfortunately though, it’s not that simple
  
  Similar class actions are popping up across the world
  - dan2k on 14/02/2024 - 11:28
    
    +1
    
    First I've heard of this! I have an i30 that has recently started gobbling oil - waiting on my service appointment
    - barge-in hunter on 14/02/2024 - 12:11
      
      +2
      
      Sorry to hear that @dan2k - great that you're paying enough attention to notice. A friend's Sante Fe blew up half way between Melbourne and Canberra and left them stranded. They did get a "free" new engine, but had to pay the exorbitant dealership labour fee to get it fitted.
      
      I still think they should have pushed Hyundai Australia to cover that too, but they were just happy to get out of a jam.
  - GordonHanley on 16/02/2024 - 09:33
    
    +2
    
    This doesn't appear to affect i30 FD model that be the only one in the OPs price range
    - noz on 17/02/2024 - 12:36
      
      The FD is a good, reliable series, and you still see many of them around, whereas later series such as the GD I don't see as many of them - probably not lasting as long as FD.
- skillet on 14/02/2024 - 09:46
  
  The i30 turbo isn't a good one. NA car for simple and longevity.
Benoffie on 13/02/2024 - 13:03

+8

Toyota Corolla or Camry
Suzuki Swift

Easy to maintain, drive and insure.
- CantonasKungFuKick on 13/02/2024 - 13:05
  
  +1
  
  struggling to find Corolla or Swift within his price range
  - kerfuffle on 13/02/2024 - 13:17
    
    +3
    
    Can you lend him some money to increase his price range? $10K should be able to get you something sorta decent
    - CantonasKungFuKick on 13/02/2024 - 13:19
      
      if we were to go to 10k, what should we be looking at?
      - kerfuffle on 13/02/2024 - 13:29
        
        +8
        
        @CantonasKungFuKick: Corolla/Camry, anything Japanese
      - Stewardo on 13/02/2024 - 13:30
        
        +5
        
        @CantonasKungFuKick: I30
        Corolla, Camry
        Mazda 3
        Don’t buy a European or ford or Holden.
        
        Mechz on 13/02/2024 - 13:36
        
        +2
        
        @Stewardo: When did Mazda stop making the melty dashboards?
        
        DiggyWombat on 15/02/2024 - 07:59
        
        @Mechz: 2011, got to be the BL series II. You can tell a series II from a series I as the rear bumper is black plastic on the I, it's the same colour as the rest of the body on the II. The dash on the II is made of different plastic and they all start raising and deforming in the heat rather than melting. I have one
    - CantonasKungFuKick on 13/02/2024 - 13:26
      
      How about something like this? https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2007-mazda-3-neo-bk…
      - kerfuffle on 13/02/2024 - 13:30
        
        +1
        
        @CantonasKungFuKick: That looks OK; check for accident damage and service history
  - Benoffie on 13/02/2024 - 14:17
    
    2014 Swifts should be a max $8k at around 150k kms.
    
    Obviously the older model Swifts (pre 2010 i think) should be sub $5k.
    
    Avoid dealers unless you're going to haggle hard. Trade in value for 2014/5 is $3k max, older model is $1-1500.
    - nigel deborah on 14/02/2024 - 22:00
      
      Swifts are pretty expensive, at least in Vic. I think you'd have a pretty hard time finding a good example 2014 or later at 150kkm for below $10k.
      
      Note on the Swifts, sometime in 2013 the Australian ones were no longer built in Japan, if that matters to you.
  - kaleidoscope on 14/02/2024 - 11:27
    
    +1
    
    That's rough. You should be able to find a pre 2010 Corolla Hatchback, Mazda 2 Hatchback around that mark.
JIMB0 on 13/02/2024 - 13:07

+10

You've given us a list of mostly crap cars. The only decent one on it is the Toyota Camry.
- AustriaBargain on 13/02/2024 - 13:10
  
  +3
  
  With a budget of about $6,000 you can't really get a good car can you?
  - JIMB0 on 13/02/2024 - 13:14
    
    It wouldn't matter how much you spent on an old Holden or Volkswagen, chances are it would still be a crap car.
bdl on 13/02/2024 - 13:08

+3

i30
jv on 13/02/2024 - 13:26 Comment score below threshold.
DemocracyManifest on 13/02/2024 - 13:32

+3

The bus
LanceVance on 13/02/2024 - 13:42

+6

Honda Accord Euro, one of the best cars money can buy and they range between $10-20K.
Otherwise as others has said your list is mostly full of garbage, but not everyone is a petrol head so don't feel bad about that.
Camry & i30 are probably the only picks that are OK.
General rule is go for something Asian, preferably Japanese. European cars are unnecessarily complex so higher labour costs with higher cost of parts with reduced reliability so you are more likely to run into said costs.
That being said you can also get an old beater Falcon or Commodore, mechanically if you can find one that hasn't been abused they're pretty solid, particularly the 3.8 Holden V6 and 4.0 litre straight six from Ford.
Good luck.
- Mechz on 13/02/2024 - 14:01
  
  So many VE Commodores for under 5k now. But they all have 400k on the clock, or dings in every panel.
  - Nugs on 13/02/2024 - 14:19
    
    saw one recently with a shot of the odo - 750,000km. no mention of repair history but it was white so assume it was a taxi
    .
  - LanceVance on 13/02/2024 - 16:12
    
    I wouldn't go with a VE, 3.6L V6 had lots of timing chain issues. VY's tend to go forever.
- WT on 14/02/2024 - 12:25
  
  id prob go this route, you can buy a k24 engine with low klms for $650ish and change it in a weekend so buying a high mile one wouldnt be that bad as long as it was mostly highway and the rest of the car was in good condition. I.e bushes, suspension, body, interior, gearbox. If I needed a cheap beater this is prob the route that I would go
  
  from memory the 06-08 was the best performing and I think up until 10/11 they got a bit heavier but are more "modern"
  
  Heaps of upgrades available, there is a civic in the US doing 8's without a turbo and the record for boosted is in the 5's. Not that it matters to anyone on OZB but point is, everything you could ever want is just a credit card away. They have a cult following, people are putting them in time attack cars, drag cars, drifters, old oddesy's and trolling people on the street and track, kswap rabbit hole and there are endless posts on all socials. The only other engine swapped just as much would be an LS
  - LanceVance on 14/02/2024 - 17:03
    
    I've had 2 of the 08-12 Accord Euro's, one Auto and one Manual and they're still probably the best all rounder car I've ever driven. Driven plenty of stuff including lots of Euro's, the balance between quality, handling, ride, performance and reliability is simply unmatched. Both of mine were at or over 200K when I moved on, one was written off and the other because I moved overseas for a year and neither had any issues whatsoever and still were lovely cars to drive and own.
    Can't recommend them highly enough, Honda really outdid themselves with this model and I think lost a lot of loyal fans when they stopped making them.
  - BartholemewH on 15/02/2024 - 13:48
    
    +1
    
    Not sure OP is capable of swapping an engine out in a weekend….
  - josaya on 15/02/2024 - 15:21
    
    +1
    
    I don't think the accord euro engines have been sub 1k in years. Very popular to swap into an older Honda worldwide.
cashless on 13/02/2024 - 13:56

+5

Buy any car you like but please, please remove Holden Cruze.
You'll thank OzBargain for it.
Suggest anything Korean or Japanese
Mechz on 13/02/2024 - 13:59 Comment score below threshold.
- WoodYouLikeSomeCash on 13/02/2024 - 14:04
  
  +8
  
  What's the reasoning behind 'must be automatic'?
  
  Kids should be learning how to drive a manual
  
  There is no reason for needing to learn how to drive a manual unless you're going to become a race car driver.
  - Mechz on 13/02/2024 - 14:29
    
    -3
    
    You don't put any value in hand-eye coordination?
    - rumblytangara on 13/02/2024 - 16:04
      
      +10
      
      What's what Playstations are for.
    - nigel deborah on 14/02/2024 - 22:02
      
      +3
      
      Learning a manual might give you something but it ain't hand eye coordination. Try tennis instead.
    - DiggyWombat on 15/02/2024 - 08:00
      
      Or potentially travelling to Europe?
      - quick-dry on 16/02/2024 - 13:01
        
        @DiggyWombat: looking at european car rentals, so much of the fleets are moving towards small EVs suited to being city runabouts.
        
        For a rental out of Barcelona this year it was more expensive/more hassle just for same class ICE or hybrid, unfortunately we were going to be a few hours from the city and the short range was too much hassle (I'm happy with EVs, all my cars booked for NZ this year are new EV - it was the cheapest option, even cheaper than getting the typical clapped out Japanese import with the radio still in Japanese language).
        
        Manual might save a few dollars from an ultra budget rental place, but I'm pretty budget conscious when doing my own bookings and picking autos now isn't as much of a problem as it used to be.
- CantonasKungFuKick on 13/02/2024 - 14:05
  
  +1
  
  We started out learning manual, he had a few stalls and one resulted in some ahole shouting at him, so he's just completely lost confidence to learn a manual
  - Mechz on 13/02/2024 - 14:31
    
    +11
    
    Ah man you have to get him back on the path, find a parking lot or empty field to practice. Arseholes will be shouting at L platers and P platers until the end of time regardless.
    - frugalftw on 16/02/2024 - 09:41
      
      I had the same experience when I was on the P plate. What is with this? Shouldn’t people be nicer to noobs? Isn’t that the point of having those plates displayed? My friend who’s been on full licence for over 20 years, drove my car for 10 minutes to try it out and forgot to take off the P, and all hell broke loose.
  - Monad on 14/02/2024 - 10:17
    
    +2
    
    As was said, get practice in the carpark for him to gain confidence. There are so many more small hatchbacks on the market that are manual transmission, you'd have a far better choice to buy from.
  - Ghost47 on 14/02/2024 - 19:31
    
    I'm another person who would highly recommend that your son stick with driving manual. When you learn to drive manual you are forced to become even more focussed because you need to remember what gear you're in, when to downshift, how to revmatch, when to go into neutral, how to do handbrake starts etc. Manual is indeed more challenging but is entirely worth it in the long run. He will absolutely love driving manual if he sticks with it, I guarantee it. Manual cars are just so much more fun and engaging to drive.
    
    If you son keeps up with driving manual I think he'd become a better driver than most honestly.
    
    To reiterate again what others have said, take him somewhere quiet like a parking lot, or suburban streets instead of main roads. There should be plenty of places in Adelaide where he can practice without getting harassed by impatient morons.
  - stringbean402 on 14/02/2024 - 19:44
    
    For sure got to stick with learning manual. Society is full of (profanity), just gotta learn to brush it off. The pressure is not necessarily a bad thing, he may well be encouraged to do some silly things by his mates in the years ahead and needs to learn not to back down and have the confidence to hold his ground and say no.
    
    Thing with learning manual is one day your brain just kicks in and it becomes natural. I would encourage him to give if another go. It's a handy life skill.
    
    I honestly think it makes better drivers out of people too because they learn the weight, balance, braking and handling dynamics of driving better because they have too balance it all to drive smoothly on the daily.
- kerfuffle on 13/02/2024 - 14:08
  
  +3
  
  Perhaps you can set an example and teach your wife how to drive a manual?
- spackbace on 13/02/2024 - 14:40
  
  +7
  
  Kids should be learning how to drive a manual even if the future is voice activated.
  
  Why?
  
  Just look at the current new car landscape and how few cars are sold as manual - Either sports cars or commercials, and even most of the commercials have an auto equivalent.
  - FrankAbagnaleJr on 13/02/2024 - 14:48
    
    +1
    
    Yep I learned on a manual, first car was a manual but every car since has been an auto simply because manuals are rare to find now and require custom orders for new cars now.
- AustriaBargain on 13/02/2024 - 15:10
  
  +8
  
  Manuals sell in the single digit thousands out of all new cars sold each year in Australia. The old convention wisdom about manuals being more efficient or faster at changing gears and such hasn't applied for decades. The world has moved on and it's voted automatic.
  - skillet on 14/02/2024 - 09:49
    
    With Manual, OP's son will soon learn to dump clutch and be wheel hoppin and tyres screeching. The engine mounts will be torn in no time. Get an Auto. The future is electric anyway, not even an auto.
  - Monad on 14/02/2024 - 10:21
    
    In the small car market of 10+ year old small cars (what the OP is looking at), there are many manuals in that bracket. Otherwise you're quite right.
- sam-1966 on 13/02/2024 - 17:29
  
  +10
  
  These days a manual car is almost its own theft deterrent! I remember a report about four people car jacking someone and then rushing off because none of them could drive a manual.
- WT on 14/02/2024 - 12:33
  
  15-20 years ago id agree with you but there is a lot less manuals around and new cars its rare to have that option unless its a sports car and you will pay extra for it
  
  Cheap cars use a cvt because its even cheaper to make then a manual
  
  also depends where you are, lower social economic areas tend to hold onto their cars longer. Rural people may prefer it for whatever reason, if you live on a farm, 100% it would be mandatory but then again the kids probably already know and can also drive a tractor, quad/bike etc out of necessity
  - Mechz on 14/02/2024 - 13:33
    
    -2
    
    Maybe, but as OP mentioned it's just a one off incident that is preventing the kid from having the skills that will last a lifetime and might give them some enjoyment they don't foresee down the track. There's lots of scenarios where it could be super useful, international travel and borrowing a car instead of renting one immediately spring to mind.
- Ghost47 on 14/02/2024 - 19:57
  
  +1
  
  It's sad you've been downvoted so much. IMO when people learn manual they're forced to concentrate on many things at the same time which makes them become more focussed on the actual task of driving itself and less prone to other distractions or thoughts. E.g. "I'm coming up to a right turn in suburban environment, I'm in third gear, ok what can I see, well there's no stop sign, visibility on both sides looks good, ok looking early there seems to be no cars coming from either side, I'm still travelling about 7 km/hr, I can shift to second gear and carry on instead of coming to a full stop". This is only one pilot study and it's based on ADHD adolescent males, but the results appear that drivers are more attentive when they drive manual transmissions.
  
  IMO anyone learning to drive should at least get a few lessons in a manual car even if they want to drive automatic, just so they get a taste of both worlds and their parents should ask them "Did you feel more engaged when driving manual or automatic?"
  - eug on 15/02/2024 - 15:51
    
    +1
    
    IMO when people learn manual they're forced to concentrate on many things at the same time which makes them become more focussed on the actual task of driving itself and less prone to other distractions or thoughts.
    
    Some people might think having to think about what gear they're in and what they should be and what they're doing with their left foot is a distraction, especially when learning… or when reverse-parallel parking on a downwards slope into a tight spot. :)
    
    Of course once you get used to it, it becomes automatic.
    - Ghost47 on 15/02/2024 - 18:23
      
      True, it's definitely overwhelming the first few times you get in a manual car.

Help Me with a Shortlist of 1st Cars for My Son

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