Do you think it is reasonable for a teacher to ask 9- or 10-year-old children (public school) to bring deodorant to school? This was said multiple times to the class and not aimed at anyone.
What age do you normally get/allow children to use deodorant?
I remember it in grade 7, back when 8 was the first year of high school.
9 or 10 year olds would be grade 4 or 5
Gotta be mindful of people around ya mate, if you or your family members have smelley body odour then masked it with deodorants, its common sense mate.
@RTX9090Ti: Deodorant doesn't mask the smell, that's what perfume do, deodorant actually attacks the source of the smell, which are bacteria feeding off the sweat in your armpits.
Contrary to what most people think, sweat is actually odorless, its the bacteria which likes to feed off the sweat that causes BO, so deodorant kills the bacteria, therefore the source of the smell is gone.
Deodorant needed to be mentioned in one of my uni classes - I would have appreciated if their primary school teachers had gotten onto them about it a decade or so earlier.
Is it your kid who smells bad?
In March I was in year 5 when I was 9yro and year 6 when I was 10yro. But most kids had turned a year older by then, and I soon did too.
If you held your kid back to only be in year 3 when they are 10yro, maybe the talk is aimed at them?
In any case, it seems like there is something else you are talking about in a coded way that you expect others to understand without saying.
I am guessing you mean that you think people should only wear deodorant after puberty, and we should keep puberty secret from younger children because it is somehow harmful.
If that is the case, you will find the curriculum doesn't match your expectations.
Yep… once they get a bit older, they're too old to be told they smell bad because they'll take it as a personal attack.
@Assburg: Potentially will get anxiety, PTSD and attention deficit disorder from being told as a teen.
Are you and/or your kids from south asian?
He/she doesn't
Wtf. Do you not know if your child is a he or she?!
I thought this was standard these days remember sex is a myth and gender is a social construction.
I thought this was standard
Gotcha. You just thought wrong then. If in doubt, go get a passport without specifying your gender.
sex is a myth
This doesn't even make any sense.
gender is a social construction.
What isn't a social construct? You say "it's a social construct" like it's a bad thing.
Money is a social construct. May I take all of yours?
Time is a social construct. Date is. Should we stop using clocks and calendars?
FFS.
@CocaKoala: My comment about sex being a myth was supposed to be sarcastic or satirical based off of the social climate we exist in. Clearly Ive missed the mark, my intention wasn't to offend you or anyone else so my apologies.
I'm just getting with the times and realising that gender is seen today as a complex issue that goes fair beyond what biological sex dictates.
Of course we shouldn't consider inventions of social construction to be invalid or disregard it, there would be very little left.
Again I'm not sure why this triggered you but I do apologise.
@creesy: I don't think you need to apologise at all, and I mean it. I thought you were being serious, haha. And I'm also happy to have a meaningful discussion.
I don't know what it means to be "triggered". I'm older than you (based on your pm).
Again, please don't apologise.
@CocaKoala: It's also necessary to apologise alot nowadays. Everyone's so easily offended haha.
Thanks mate have a good evening.
@CocaKoala: This is super wholesome and great to see discourse like this when it's so rare these days. It's also bloody hard to make light of anything these days since taking offence is a currency. How else are we supposed to learn to accept social change if we can't acknowledge the weird bits and joke about them? Anyway good on you both for being reasonable, mature adults in a world of manufactured hysteria.
You need to teach your kid to shower
Edit to add, you should also be showering…
If parents aren't being responsible about their child's hygiene, then yeah its completely appropriate. And that's the issue. A lot of parents are no longer being parents. Teachers are stuck being the parents, baby sitter AND being a teacher. And then the actual parents go wild being Karen's about anything and everything.
You'd know your kid smell. And if you don't, then you're smelling worse.
If you think it's inappropriate to tell a kid about hygiene (coz that's in essence what this is), then you are the problem.
Ps you are asking an out of context question. That's a poor excuse and highlights the type of person you are.
Why personal attacks for a harmless question trying to understand why is general view is ?
Bloody hell, stop being dishonest.
You came here with a preconceived view, and you're now acting like a child when the majority doesn't agree with you.
Don't you have more important things to worry about as a parent than whether your child wears deodorant or not?
(FWIW, for some reason I always find people who leave a space between the end of the last letter and the question mark to espouse silly opinions).
You came here with a preconceived view, and you're now acting like a child when the majority doesn't agree with you.
Welcome to the Ozbargain forum.
…and alter the diets, not always eat certain types of food every single day.
showering means nothing if you don't use soap.
I was shocked to learn recently that soap isn't cool now; a very large proportion of people under 20 "don't believe" in soap, and either never use it, or only use it every few days.
Falsehood
a very large proportion of people under 20 "don't believe" in soap
This seems unlikely. What does seem likely is that a couple of zoomers posted some bullshit on TikTok, the Today show presented it as if it was evidence of some mass hysteria, and you've regurgitated it here as if it was a fact.
Bodu wash and shampoo are just soap with extras, if they are using these on the pits and groin that is fine.
showering means nothing if you don't use soap.
If you have loads of stinky bacteria infesting your skin, sure.
Not so much a problem for other people.
Edit to add, you should also be showering…
Be specific about not to shower with a 3 year old or you'd be in the wrong for so many other things…
This is the best comment here. Typical parents who doesn't shower and the ONLY and same person who feels VIOLATED by this. LOL..
YEAH GO SHOWER OP. This should not even a question at all.
Yes, why should a teacher be forced to teach in a room that smells of BO. Good to teach kids good hygiene early. Based on what I smell on the train in the afternoon more people should have been taught this from a young age! Disgusting how some people travel with pungent BO with no regard for anyone else.
We had to have separate gender based assemblies whilst teaching Year 6/7 to have a general chat about personal hygiene. Male staff with the boys, female staff with the girls to address this issue. It was also addressed by the Growth & Development specialist during class health lessons.
That prevented scents. Cheers
Sounds like the teacher is trying to subtly change a situation rather than report a case of neglect.
Year 3 is 7 (turning 8). So 9 turning 10 is year 5. Meaning you can also be 10 in year 6 if you haven't had your birthday yet.
Some kids are starting puberty very early and they need to be told before they start for their own good (don't want to be "that smelly kid" that no one likes or wants to work with). What is the harm?
The teacher didn't single anyone out. Good teacher! Hopefully the teacher explained the reason for it, and how people rarely tell you if you stink.
Fair enough. I am not questing the motive or hygeine or smell or anything
Question was do you teach your 9 year old to use it now or wait for them to get smelly :)
Answer is yes, they should use it if they're starting to develop stronger body odour and it's appropriate. Why would you think otherwise?
I 'm not against it. I just wanted a view on what other parents did - start by some age or wait for them to get stronger order
Teach them early. It's part of a basic hygeine routine. If you wait until it's absolutely necessary it's harder to change existing habits.
Why would you think that?
Because it's a troll account
Is that your real profile pic? coz the last one was a fat dude.
I used the phat filter this time
usually they start lecturing students on hygiene collectively. unfortunately a student will go home and complain to their parents student A stinks, they ring the school and complain then post messages on social media, then another parent in the same class will do the same thing and on its goes and then it snow balls into parents keeping their children at home or asking to have their child shifted into another class etc etc
nothing should surprise anyone
Yes, there are deo for children and all ages.
Nothing wrong with children wearing it. Some children may smell more than others, some may sweat more than others.
If the teacher said it in general and didn't want to single out the child then take that information and smell your child(ren) clothes and such.
Or the teacher is educating the kids on personal hygiene in general and it's good to start learning self cleanliness.
If I was the teacher, Ill be writing a personal message to the parent telling their kid smells.
Thanks !
Just curious - why do you put a space before your concluding punctuation?
It should be: "Thanks!"
Not: "Thanks !"
Maybe its their culture?
@RTX9090Ti: It may well be - which is why I asked.
Some cursory research suggests spaces before punctuation is a thing in French writing
@johnno07: Can you perform another cursory research to find out which culture writes "its" instead of "it's"?
This was said multiple times to the class and not aimed at anyone
Would you have preferred if they singled out individual students :/
No question was - do you ask your 9 year old to use it or force them to use ?
I don't see why force is needed. Are you now saying a teacher forced a student to use deodorant? I think you may be Karening on a bit.
The kids will be fine. They will go home and either not care or ask their parent or guardian if they stink.
It's not as if the treacher told the class to go home and wash their arse holes. Maybe they should, too many adults fail to do this.
I got one and the child use in the morning but they have been asked use it at school too (general comment). I think children being children most of them forget to use at school
Do normal 9 year old go to schools with a deo or roll on at other schools?
Schools don't have medical staff or school doctors in South Australia.
At one school we had a community health nurse visit regularly to assist a very young, recently diagnosed type 1 diabetic child with blood tests and administering insulin. Apart from that, and immunisation visits many years ago, medical staff are not present on school sites except for emergencies.
"medical staff"? "school doctor"?
tell me your kid goes to a private school without telling me your kid goes to a private school
As a teacher, we often address matters of hygiene in that kind of general discussion. Considering consent and body parts is now in Reception/Year 1 curriculum, fundamentals like deodorant and showering is a no brainer by age 9-10.
You may also like to consider that 9-10 year olds:
Parents seem to think that these things just dont need to be covered until the Age of Lynx (Years 8 and 9).
Girls should be in bras at the appropriate time for their body. Thats just common sense.
There are girls of B and C cup size in Year 6 and parents are either too oblivious or just dont care to take their daughters for appropriate under garments.
All it does it make life incredibly miserable for those girls. It's difficult to manage and it hardly goes without notice and torment.
And bras aren't about gravity. In fact, bras do nothing to stop sagging. It's not their purpose.
Because growing breasts (even small ones) hurt and bras or bralettes provide support. Not every girl needs one but plenty do!
If 9 and 10 year olds are sexually active that’s a child protection issue.
Absolutely it is. But it lends itself to the bigger issue of abdication of parental responsibility or a lack of education re health reality 2024.
It also has nothing to do with body odour and I believe quite uncommon. We don’t need to make up issues that aren’t there to blame parents. If kids of 9 and 10 were having sex on a regular basis we’d all know about it.
@morse: Dont limit sexual activity with just sex. Thats part of the problem and why consent is now taught to 5 year olds.
I was also simply highlighting the complete cluelessness many parents have re the actual reality of health in young people.
@Benoffie: ‘Sexually active’ implies sex. If 9-10 yos are doing more than holding hands and kissing it’s a child protection issue.
I think parents are actually much more educated on how to talk to their children about puberty and sex than ever before.
As a teacher please don’t assume parents are ‘clueless’. If parents pick up that you feel that way about them, it disengages them. There are a variety of religious, cultural or simply parenting preferences which will influence how people choose to introduce these topics to their children. A general letter about hygiene to a class of kids this age is fine, but ultimately parents decisions need to be respected.
We had a similar thing with toilet training where daycare was pushing us re moving out of nappies at 2. They preferred to do all the kids the same way in class at the same time. I did my reading and also know that if you force the issue with kids it can create anxiety and actually slow them down. I chatted with the director and said to drop the issue and we would do it our way. Knowing my child I followed his lead and we just read books about it with him (potty time etc) and told him he could choose to wear undies when he wanted to. We offered the choice everyday and the books were his favourites for a period. He held off for a while, then made his choice when he was ready. Was fully toilet trained within 2 weeks that he made the choice using standard toilets with a family toilet seat. It saved countless ‘accidents’ that other children had to go through. He was completely dry through the night and not wetting his pants at all far earlier than other children. He still met the goal the educators wanted of independence before moving to the bigger kids room, well before he needed to. Many of my friends that started earlier are still putting their kids to bed in nappies at 4 (which is also completely fine). That was the right choice for my child that went against what the educators wanted. But I know him, he likes to fully understand things and lead the process, if I had a different child, I might make different choices. What I know for sure is that I did the best thing for my child.
When we get to that age I would like to think my choices are respected by teachers. If parents are choosing not to introduce a bra at 9, don’t assume they are ‘clueless’, there are complex decisions to make about body image, comfort, emotional development, fitting in with cultural norms etc. The parent might of suggested it to the child and the child may not want to. They don’t need another layer of judgement from the teacher. Generic materials for all parents e.g. “some girls might start wearing a bra at this age” fine, if the child is being bullied or receiving uncomfortable comments about it, conversation with the parents is also fine, but there also needs to be a conversation with the parents of the children making the comments or doing the bullying, and similar general information for the whole class “we don’t comment on others bodies” etc. A few adults could probably do with the “we don’t comment on other people’s bodies” education too.
When we get to that age I would like to think my choices are respected by teachers. If parents are choosing not to introduce a bra at 9, don’t assume they are ‘clueless’, there are complex decisions to make about body image, comfort, emotional development, fitting in with cultural norms etc. The parent might of suggested it to the child and the child may not want to. They don’t need another layer of judgement from the teacher.
Sorry, but as a former teacher, I've just got to say that you have no bloody idea what you are talking about.
Teachers don't have the time or bandwidth to "judge" parents. Having been both a teacher and a parent, I can tell you that parents spend much more time judging their child's teacher than the child's teacher spends judging the parent. It's just a simple matter of time - as a parent, you deal with one teacher, they occupy all of your bandwidth, and as a teacher, you deal with like 50+ parents (sometimes).
Trust me, no teacher cares about what your personal beliefs are and how you think things should be done - there are rules and standards and teachers will follow those rules and standards. Most communications, e.g. that we should talk to students about wearing deodorant, are made at the school level.
Whilst I don't think that most parents are "clueless", I do think that most parents have not had training and expertise in education, specifically. That's fine, not everyone is an expert in everything. However, the issue is when parents start believing and acting like they are experts in education and telling teachers how to do their jobs.
If you do not tell your surgeon how to operate on you, or your accountant how to do your taxes, or your chef how to cook your food, then you shouldn't be telling your teacher how to teach their class. It's as simple as that really.
@p1 ama: Stop comparing yourself to a surgeon, sorry but you’re not one, and if you really want to even surgeons are interested in patient experience these days. No wonder so many are home schooling. Remember when teachers were trusted without question and what happened?
No one is saying don’t listen to teachers. Also listen to parents.
Stop comparing yourself to a surgeon, sorry but you’re not one
Well if you really wanted to get petty and personal, I graduated near the top of my class in high school, went to uni on a full scholarship, graduating at the top of my class with a university medal. Went to work in a prestigious career, became a subject matter expert in a highly in-demand area, was making around halfway to seven figures in my mid-30s. Had a family and decided to give it all up and become a teacher because I genuinely have a passion for teaching.
If you want to compare notes about who's smarter or more accomplished, I'm happy to play that game. It's misdirection, though.
No wonder so many are home schooling.
Good for them.
Remember when teachers were trusted without question and what happened?
I'm not suggesting that anybody trust anybody else without question. What I do think, however, is that people often have opinions on many things that they are downright clueless about.
No one is saying don’t listen to teachers. Also listen to parents.
Teachers do not listen to parents. Teachers listen to what they are required to teach as outlined in the curriculum, by their school, and informed by their education and training. If you have a problem with that, go and speak to school leadership. If you still have a problem, go and speak to the Department of Education in your state, where 99.99% of your complaints will be thrown in the dustbin.
If you want to compare notes about who's smarter or more accomplished, I'm happy to play that game.
Congratulations but that wasn’t where I was going with that comment at all. Sorry if that’s a sensitivity for you. teaching and surgery are quite different fields, however, looking at the similarities good surgeons do respect the choices of their patients. In fact I was just talking to a patient two days ago who has chosen not to take the advice of a surgeon and is taking a different path, the surgeon is not offended. Have a chat a surgeon and ask them if anyone “tells a surgeon how to operate on them”. They do, very often to the dismay of the surgeon, but surgeons do get things wrong and they know this.
What I do think, however, is that people often have opinions on many things that they are downright clueless about
Absolutely, but this includes teachers. Not all teachers, but some. yourself being a teacher must have encountered this. Usually this is most damaging where there is scope creep and they are commenting on things that are related to, but not a core part of their profession. Teachers are in a position of power and trust and have to ability to cause great harm and great good, it is absolutely for this reason that what they do must be scrutinised. Is that hard for teachers? Absolutely! It’s also hard for surgeons. I’ve worked in health for 20 years (not a surgeon) and I embrace criticism of my practice, especially from patients, it’s what makes us better. I see it as part of my job to explain in a way my patients understand why I recommend or don’t recommend something and hear their ideas. Some of my colleagues don’t embrace criticism and what is see is it causes them more distress.
Teachers do not listen to parents. Teachers listen to what they are required to teach as outlined in the curriculum, by their school, and informed by their education and training.
I think this is a poor representation of teachers. The teachers I know do listen to parents. Not without frustration at times. But if we go back to what I was commenting on, it was benoffie’s comment on young girls needing to wear bras, is that in the curriculum? When it comes to bra wearing, there are complexities that sit outside of a teachers scope that parents and the child need to consider, and the assumption that if a young girl is developing breasts and not wearing a bra her parents are clueless seems extreme and potentially harmful.
go and speak to the Department of Education in your state, where 99.99% of your complaints will be thrown in the dustbin.
I don’t have a complaint, my kids not even in school yet (and when I do ask for any changes at kindy they act on them without issue - I certainly don’t get a tantrum back about how they were top of their class and know better than me). Irrespective, again, you are doing a disservice to your colleagues making statements like this. I have a number of good friends that are teachers and this doesn’t match what I hear from them when we share work stories. I can ensure you complaints in health, including about surgeons get taken very seriously and are acted on to make change where appropriate. When they are not is when things go wrong. Maybe you were a teacher at Cranbrook, it seems they might share your views on complaints.
Congratulations but that wasn’t where I was going with that comment at all. Sorry if that’s a sensitivity for you. teaching and surgery are quite different fields, however, looking at the similarities good surgeons do respect the choices of their patients.
Well, I gave you plenty of examples, where it was obvious that I'm not suggesting teaching literally is surgery, or literally is cooking, or literally is an accountant.
Teachers also respect the choices of their students. For example, students learn in different ways, and teachers adapt to that. However, this is not what we're talking about - a surgeon does not take technical surgical advice from their patients, just like a teacher should not take technical teaching advice from parents.
There is no shame in admitting that 99%+ of people don't know anything about surgery, don't know anything about education, and don't know anything about a whole variety of other specialist topics which require many years of university education.
Absolutely, but this includes teachers. Not all teachers, but some. yourself being a teacher must have encountered this. Usually this is most damaging where there is scope creep and they are commenting on things that are related to, but not a core part of their profession.
No, I've never met any teachers in my professional life, who will comment on things outside the core of their profession.
I taught mathematics, I only ever spoke formally to my students about mathematics. When my students wanted support on things that were outside the core of my profession, I referred them to the relevant support services (either within, or outside of the school). Obviously many students talked to me about personal interests, e.g. sports, cars, movies…etc., where it was obvious that those are social interactions.
Can you give any examples of this happening, instead of saying "you must have encountered this"?
Teachers are in a position of power and trust and have to ability to cause great harm and great good, it is absolutely for this reason that what they do must be scrutinised. Is that hard for teachers? Absolutely! It’s also hard for surgeons.
Sure, teachers are already scrutinised, both within schools and by state government bodies. This is true of any other profession - doctors, accountants, engineers, whatever else are scrutinised in similar ways.
I’ve worked in health for 20 years (not a surgeon) and I embrace criticism of my practice, especially from patients, it’s what makes us better. I see it as part of my job to explain in a way my patients understand why I recommend or don’t recommend something and hear their ideas.
There is a difference between "embracing criticism", which I agree everyone should do, and consistently having to deal with people who think they are in a position to tell you how to do your job without having any knowledge or experience.
Irrespective, again, you are doing a disservice to your colleagues making statements like this. I have a number of good friends that are teachers and this doesn’t match what I hear from them when we share work stories. I can ensure you complaints in health, including about surgeons get taken very seriously and are acted on to make change where appropriate.
You can run a statistical analysis on what percentage of complaints are valid, and the reality will be that the vast majority are not. I have many colleagues and close friends who have worked at various state education departments. The vast majority of complaints are things along the line of "boo hoo, teacher told my child that vaccines are safe and effective", "boo hoo, teacher told my child that they should call the trans kid by their preferred pronouns", "boo hoo, teacher chose another child to represent the school at the maths competition, but my child is so special".
Don't be delusional.
No, I've never met any teachers in my professional life, who will comment on things outside the core of their profession.
My original comment that has seemingly enraged you is in response to a self proclaimed teacher commenting on their views on 9year olds wearing bras - seems a little bit of a stretch for the core scope of a primary school teacher. I’ve also encountered anti vac teachers (the kind that suggest vacs cause autism, even pre COVID), and teachers who dole out nutrition advice outside the gov endorsed healthy eating guidelines (like recommending paleo no carb diets). I used to consult into schools as a health professional for children with disabilities or health issues - some of the stuff I’ve heard teachers say is wild to say the least. Obviously not the majority of my interactions with teachers, but you tend to remember the not so good stuff. And this is not saying I don’t respect the profession, I absolutely do and rely on it as there’s no way I’m home schooling my child. I’ve got lots of good friends who are teachers and I’m always very keen to hear their advice. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t question something I thought wasn’t right if it was impacting my child. It’s a parents job to look out for their child, it’s that ones that don’t that I’d be more concerned about.
If the comment was about best methods for teaching literacy or numeracy I wouldn’t have commented, but this isn’t what this post is about not what my comment was in response to. Educating kids on personal hygiene, fine. Calling parents ‘clueless’ for not getting their pre-teen to wear a bra (without knowing the rationale) is problematic for me and what I was responding to.
You can run a statistical analysis on what percentage of complaints are valid, and the reality will be that the vast majority are not.
‘Valid’ can mean a lot of things, and I doubt this is metric that DoE runs. Of course some people make complaints that would seem trivial in the greater context of teaching, but this doesn’t delegitimise other complaints nor the care that parents have for their children. Most of the time feedback from parents at this level, is exactly that, feedback, engagement in their own child’s education, and isn’t even a ‘complaint’ as such.
I can tell you from experience as a health professional, that as soon as you embrace feedback from clients the easier work becomes and I think this applies to teaching as well. I can’t remember when I learned this but almost by default thanking the person for their complaint, criticism or feedback and engaging with it, just makes life so much easier, and patients/students/parents more engaged and on board. It doesn’t mean agreeing with them all the time, but being open to hearing it.
Thanks !
Perhaps antiperspirant or fragrance free deodorant for those who are reaching puberty. But most ‘deodorants’ that aren’t antiperspirant are just a fragrance that when mixed with sweat smell even worse, especially when there’s 25 different scents in a class full of kids. Raising Children which is the gov endorsed website for such things basically says from puberty https://raisingchildren.net.au/pre-teens/healthy-lifestyle/h…
I’d say the issue is more clothes not being washed daily (i.e clean shirt each day) and kids not showering properly. A lot of school uniforms are now synthetic as well so would get very smelly with sweat.
Also some people smell unpleasant to some due to the food they eat, not much can be done about that.
But most ‘deodorants’ that aren’t antiperspirant are just a fragrance that when mixed with sweat smell even worse
More adults on public transport, offices, etc should also know this!!
Plot twist, OP is the teacher.
I remember deodorant being mentioned in one of my year 6 classes that focussed on personal hygiene.