I am not a big visitor to pharmacies but Chemist Warehouse has always seemed to be cheapest until now
Panamax at 100 for $2.99 has been my go to for a long time. Now they are 50 for $1.99.
It may be a one off, but with thousands of products susceptible to price changes, I thought a little survey might be interesting, so please click away
Why these changes have been made
Each year in Australia around 225 people are hospitalised with liver injury and 50 people die from paracetamol overdose, with rates of intentional overdose highest among adolescents and young adults.To help reduce the risk of intentional overdose, the TGA made a decision on 3 May 2023 to change the way consumers can access paracetamol products based on pack size for various paracetamol products.
So apparently I can't overdose if I buy two boxes of 50 tablets, only if I buy one box of 100 tablets. #TGA #TheScience #Safe
I’m getting negs but nobody is answering my question. How many headaches are people getting that they need a pack with 100 tablets. I’m lucky to get through 20 before they go end of life.
WCON.
@try2bhelpful: Not everyone lives alone. Some people have families. Some people have ongoing pain treatment needs. If you took 3x tablets a day (conservative) for 4 days straight for a cold, and 4 people in the house got the same cold and did the same, you're already almost halfway through the supply of 100 tablets.
@tenpercent: For the odd times you will be confronted with this scenario then you can get the Pharmacist to sell you the packs of 100. I suspect a lot of tablets get thrown away because people don’t use them before they go end of life.
@try2bhelpful: Good idea. Go out to the shops while you're sick and sneezy and coughy. That sounds safe and effective.
@tenpercent: In your scenario you may well run out of tablets anyway so you will still need to go out. However, if you are wearing a mask, and maintain hygiene, the chance of infecting anyone is probably pretty minor anyway. Once you are at the chemist they might be able to recommend other medications that might help. Headache tablets on deal with part of the symptoms.
@try2bhelpful: Unlikely. With a single box of 100 tablets in your medicine cabinet, (but really you'd have a couple boxes of those stocked up), that would be enough for 4 people having a cold for 4 days twice over with a few spare.
@tenpercent: I just think the most likely result is a lot of tablets get thrown out because nobody uses them. The risk is of course someone gets depressed and does something stupid.
Funnily enough since I got my shots - flu, Covid, Whooping cough, RSV, Shingles I haven’t had a cold since a dose of Covid two years ago. We even went overseas for 50+ days and not even a sniffle. I suspect my immune system is absolutely primed.
@try2bhelpful: Its the first step of the pain ladder. The standard recommended dose of 8 tablets per day for regular use gives a single person, less than 2 weeks worth from a 100x pack.
Given that 1 in 5 Australians are estimated to have chronic pain, maybe you're just not the target market?
The standard recommended dose of 8 tablets per day
There's a bit of an issue with your wording. It's not a recommended dose of 8 tablets per day, but rather a maximum recommended dose of 8 500mg tablets per day. If you need to take more, people should consider going to a doctor to see what other options are available.
Of course, I won't discount the fact that finding fully bulk-billed GPs is harder than finding a four-leaf clover these days and for people that have to debate between a 100 pack for $2.99 and two 50 packs for $3.99, then the cost of a GP is definitely quite significant.
@Aleigh123: There are plenty of people prescribed regular 1g qid paracetamol in addition to cox inhibitors/opiates.
For those requiring regular opioids, it is generally advised to take the max paracetamol dose (weight, lfts etc permitting)
@tensionday: I should clarify that my issue was specifically your wording saying that it's recommended to take 4,000 mg per day when that is the maximum recommended amount. Then of course I proceeded to make a similar mistake with my wording so my bad with that.
Yes, many people are prescribed 1,000 mg and this is in fact what most (all?) adults will take (2x 500mg tablets, up to four times a day). I won't deny that a lot of people will be prescribed the maximum dosage and my only issue with your statement was the semantics implied in your phrasing.
@Aleigh123: Yeah its common for people to be recommended 1g qid. Not only as required, but regularly. It is also the safe recommended maximum, but also the standard recommended dose for nociceptive pain.
Source: I work in a pain clinic
@try2bhelpful: personally I always keep a stock of pain meds and flu medicene. The last thing I want to do when sick is leave the house. So will always have enough for a week of being sick, even if that means I end up throwing some away because they expire before I use.
@try2bhelpful: It takes a fair whack to numb the pain of hypochondria.
If only they knew placebo! low dose,does even better.
@Protractor: Try telling that to the covid nutters still wearing masks (often with their snouts sticking out).
@try2bhelpful: We are a household of 10 people at times, so it makes more sense for us to have the 100 packs then the 50 packs.
@try2bhelpful: You might burn through 20 pretty quick if you get the flu.
Women also seem to get the sort of pain paracetamol treats relatively effectively on a monthly basis.
Someone might want to keep some at work and some at home.
I know a few families of 5-6 who seem to burn through these kinds of things pretty quickly too..
Plenty of reasons.
so why doesnt the price reduction reflect the halving equally?
and the extra packaging for what ?
I like to ingest 4x25 packs, as that's safer again.
It makes sense to me. If someone is committed enough that they go out and buy 100 pills to do so, so be it.
But for someone having a melt down and making a rash decision, it's likely they'll have less on hand if they're restricted to buying 50 at the time, it means many people will have <50 on hand instead of <100.
The blister pack makes more sense though for protecting people. If someone wants to sit there and pop out 100 panadol then they're pretty committed. But in a moment of insanity it seems pretty easy to down a container of 100 pills.
IMO it's simple cost/benefit calculation. If it saves one life, it's worth it.
It doesn't make sense at all.
Apparently you (generic you) only need 12g of paracetamol ingested for it to be lethal. Goes without saying but I'll say it anyway… please don't try this at home or anywhere else. Please call 13 11 14 (in Australia) if you are struggling. One box of 50x tablets at 500mg per tablet is more than twice the lethal dose. So a couple could do a suicide pact with a single 50 pack.
I'm still not seeing the logic of limiting sales to 50 per pack (except after chatting to a pharmacist, who isn't trained in identifying people with severe mental health conditions, especially not in a 2 minute chat at the counter).
@tenpercent: Potentially fatal. Likely liver damage is 250mg/kg. Do the maths on that one. 12g is more likely to be killing a child or someone with existing problems.
This isn't meant to stop every suicide ever. It is meant to make it more difficult. The downside? You have to take ibuprofen or buy your supply of 100 in a couple of visits.
I'm still not seeing the logic of limiting sales to 50 per pack (except after chatting to a pharmacist, who isn't trained in identifying people with severe mental health conditions, especially not in a 2 minute chat at the counter).
You've never met someone going through severe breakdown, have you?
If they've got their shit together enough that they can drive to the pharmacy and purchase paracetamol then they're also perfectly able to drive into a brick wall at 150km/h without a seatbelt on.
Again, if it saves one life it is worth it over the slight inconvenience. You can get it delivered easily enough if your mass influenza outbreak occurs. Or do you really think your hypotheticals are not worth the risk reduction?
Do the maths on that one. 12g is more likely to be killing a child or someone with existing problems.
Do the maths on a 50 pack of 500mg paracetamol. You've got 25g in one box. Enough to more than likely cause permanent liver damage in a 100kg person, maybe a tall man or obese woman. But it's more than enough to kill an average woman or adolescent.
What I am suggesting is that if the intent is genuinely to reduce the risk of deliberate overdose, then limiting the maximum standard box size to 50 tablets (without going through the pharmacist gatekeeper who is not trained to identify severe mental illness) is nowhere near enough. They need to go much smaller if they genuinely want to reduce that risk.
If they've got their shit together enough that they can drive to the pharmacy and purchase paracetamol then they're also perfectly able to drive into a brick wall at 150km/h without a seatbelt on.
Exactly. So what's the point in restricting access to 100 tablet packs? Your argument is that people visiting the pharmacy are either not at risk of overdosing or have other more effective means at their disposal.
You can get it delivered easily enough
Yes. I can get it delivered regardless if I am at risk of overdosing or not. 25 pack from woolies, 25 pack from coles, 25 pack via uber, 25 pack via door dash. Magic 100 naughty number reached. Another 50 pack from CW delivered. Another 50 pack from priceline delivered. Twice the naughty number now. On and on. I could probably get 1000 tablets or more delivered in one day without anyone questioning it. What if I was having or about to have a mental episode?
Or do you really think your hypotheticals are not worth the risk reduction?
So… "my hypotheticals are greater than your hypotheticals"?
I could probably get 1000 tablets or more delivered in one day without anyone questioning it. What if I was having or about to have a mental episode?
You're talking about means substitution. For those in epidemiology/public health, it's a well-understood notion but not very credible. In another life, I published a paper that referred to similar laws overseas. In Taiwan, for example, people usually chose to commit suicide via 'charcoal burning'; it was painless, so the government started forcing shops to sell it in smaller quantities behind a counter. You could still purchase it, but just by adding that step of needing to talk to a person who asked an extra question, kept some people from killing themselves with charcoal.
Logically, you'd think people would just jump in front of cars or cut their wrists instead, or even buy over multiple shops, but the stats didn't demonstrate this; suicides as a whole actually dropped. It turns out that many people don't just substitute the means of committing suicide. Yes, it won't stop the very determined from taking their life, but for the people who are only flirting with the idea or were on the fence, who just needed another voice to turn it around, removing the easiest means of suicide or adding additional friction, is enough to deter them from going ahead with it. While I don't have any input as to this particular decision by the government, I can understand their thinking. It's really not a huge imposition or additional cost if you still wish to purchase 100 tablets at a time. Stop arguing in bad faith.
So… "my hypotheticals are greater than your hypotheticals"?
Yes. Although mine aren’t hypotheticals, they’re real scenarios.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2013-02-08-smaller-packs-paracetam…
Can you not see any scenario where having less pills on hand is a good thing? You’re missing the woods for the trees focusing on people who go out and buy them on the day, that’s too much planning to stop.
There’s also accidental, where people in extreme pain just take every pill they have.
@[Deactivated]: Brave search AI says:
In the United Kingdom, the maximum pack size of paracetamol sold over the counter is restricted to a maximum of 32 tablets in pharmacies and 16 tablets in non-pharmacy outlets since September 1998
Recall I also said
What I am suggesting is that if the intent is genuinely to reduce the risk of deliberate overdose, then limiting the maximum standard box size to 50 tablets (without going through the pharmacist gatekeeper who is not trained to identify severe mental illness) is nowhere near enough. They need to go much smaller if they genuinely want to reduce that risk.
.
Can you not see any scenario where having less pills on hand is a good thing?
Obviously I can (see above and previous comment).
@tenpercent: So you think they're not going far enough? Seems odd compared to your earlier statements, but I agree. Personally I think the change to requiring blister packs will be more effective.
But I still see this as an improvement. Will it stop deaths and liver damage? No. But if it reduces them by one, it's worth it.
@[Deactivated]: They're not going far enough IF the genuine intent is actually to reduce the chance of paracetamol overdose. Considering they're the TGA and they would be well aware that a single 50 pack box is enough to kill a suicidal teenage girl twice over, and that many people who used to buy 100 packs will just grab two 50 packs, then I don't actually think that's the true intent.
I can think of a few possible ulterior motives, the main one being a small "sorry, guys" to the pharmacies who are losing out because of the changes to how scripts are filled (two months supply in one go) which has hurt the finances of pharmacists. Making it harder for people to buy generic medicines in bulk packs like the 100 pack of panamax let's pharmacies recoup a small amount by charging 33% more for the smaller packs.
The other possibility is the people at the TGA are retarded.
I'm open to other possibilities.
@tenpercent: How can you be “not seeing the logic?” I think you’re just trying to play devils advocate or something.
Less pills in a pack means less pills available to swallow on a whim when you’re acting irrationally. The logic couldn’t be more simple.
@haemolysis: Oh no I can't buy a 100 pack.. guess I'll buy two 50 packs. #maths
Edit: a 50 pack is more than enough to OD on. See previous comments.
@haemolysis: Catch up / follow along.
Apparently you (generic you) only need 12g of paracetamol ingested for it to be lethal.
.
Do the maths on a 50 pack of 500mg paracetamol. You've got 25g in one box. Enough to more than likely cause permanent liver damage in a 100kg person, maybe a tall man or obese woman. But it's more than enough to kill an average woman or adolescent.
.#math
@tenpercent: I haven’t missed any of what you’ve said, literally no need to re-quote yourself, it was dumb the first time.
It doesn’t matter that it “only” takes 12g or that a single pack contains a lethal dose.
If you reduce the average pack size a consumer buys, the average amount that will be in a household at any given time will reduce along with it, and ICU admissions substantially decline.
It’s interesting that you say “math” since you are clearly not understanding the said math. But the good thing is, you don’t have to! Forget the “math” for a moment and simply go look at the actual evidence.
There are LOTS of studies on risk reduction and pack sizes. They all show the same trend. Less ICU admissions and less death following quantity of sale reductions.
If you reduce the average pack size a consumer buys
"If" is a strong word. Considering I (and 78 out of 90 other Ozbargainers who have identified that it's just upping the price 33% not reducing their quantity purchased) and presumably others too are just going to resort to buying two boxes of 50, or more (when the pharmacist is too busy doing actual work instead of playing TGA policeman and severe mental health triage nurse simultaneously). It isn't going to reduce how much paracetamol we have in our cupboards.
And exactly how are they are doing the ceteris paribus part of those studies? I can manipulate data to give desired results too.
@tenpercent: No logic to it. Just the authorities pretending they are solving problems
Hey look! We're doing something!
@tenpercent: Yeah, the ban makes little sense, but the TGA is not run by competent people anymore.
Paracetamol probably wouldn't be approved by modern drug regulations as an OTC drug as the effective and lethal doses are too close. However, if the TGA were really worried about suicide risk, they would mandate that paracetamol is mixed with N-acetyl cysteine which prevents the liver damage.
If it saves one life, it's worth it.
I'm sorry but this is a horrible mentality. The world would be wrapped in bubble wrap if we applied this thought to everything.
@cheekymonkey97: I tend to agree generally speaking, but in this case, we are talking about a negligible change that really won't impact many people. The alternative (which has been proposed) is making people get a prescription. THAT is bubble wrap.
This is a tiny inconvenience at worst. If it saves a life, well, yes it is worth it.
@cheekymonkey97: Oh but it wouldn't just be any old bubble wrap, it would be expert recommended bubble wrap. Now what wass governance by experts called again (and it ain't democracy)?
it's likely they'll have less on hand if they're restricted to buying 50 at the time
You are not restricted to buying 50 at a time. I bought 2x 50 packs in a single transaction last week because the chemist didn't have any 100 packs behind the counter, which they can sell to you if you ask for it.
This new restriction makes no sense.
Harm minimisation.
Paracetamol == drug of choice for overdose (among teens). Although, more often than not == cry for help.
Accountable deaths are rare - as cases often presented to a hospital ED early enough.
But paracetamol does have a low LD50 rate +++ even low doses can cause permanent damage to liver.
The liver damage is the kicker. The kid thinks the tablets can’t be dangerous because they are just everyday drugs.
@try2bhelpful: have seen effects - with kids (aged 12-18) +++ presented at ED +++ paracetamol toxicity.
+++ what is going on inside their head.
As said though - it is more a cry for help … rather than the person actually wanting to end their life - altogether.
Mental Health sector in general has sooo many things wrong with it + these kids aren't getting the support they need.
So apparently I can't overdose if I buy two boxes of 50 tablets, only if I buy one box of 100 tablets. #TGA #TheScience #Safe
It's the same rubbish with Voltarin as well. You can buy 12.5 from ColesWorth, but gotta get 25 from the counter at the pharmacy.
It's idiotic.
Don't tell me… people were overdosing on voltaren as well?
@tenpercent: Well … Voltaren can have major issues, but the logic is just as screwed-up.
It doesn't stop someone going to the (usually) 2+ chemists in the shopping centre and getting multiple boxes. They don't ask for ID or anything.
Just idiotic.
TGA product size reverse growflation.
This is another example of this Albanese Labor governemnt again putting restrictions on our lives and our freedoms.
More to come if they win the coming election.
Your view is so unacceptable I want to slap you.
It was the Turnbull/Morrison government when they banned OTC codeine.
Not sure it makes a difference
Does this apply to ibuprofen as well?
CW needs to bring back the 100 pk for 69c deal. Those were the days…
Even the 99c per box deals were brilliant. Mind you, they'd only sell you one box at a time, but there were four CW within walk of my city office.
In before:
what're ya gonna do with 400 paracetamols huh?
they'll expire before you use 'em
I don't need that many. so you don't need that many
are you some kind of headache junkie or sumfin?
If you don't use the extra 50 from the 100 pack within 6 years you're actually ahead if you invested the $1 saved into shares.
What rate did you assume for paracetamol price inflation (PPI)?
Invest in shares of paracetamol, it's sure to go up if people need to buy two packs instead of one.
btw expiry is not a big deal for pills like this
English?
I buy mine online from a chemist, 5 packets of 100, no questions asked, cheaper and easier than walking into a chemist for them.
I don't know about Panamax in particular, but I found that Woolies brand headache tablets are far, far, far cheaper than the branded equivalent.
Gees, all the crap above about how we've got to do everything possible to stop people committing suicide. That you have to be crazy to want to.
Why can't the busy-body do-gooders just mind their own damn business.
I'm old. And just getting older. And sick. And just getting sicker despite, and in some cases because, of the more and more intrusive and ineffective measures by the medical profession. Why can't I just exit whenever I want to however I want to. Rather than being prevented by all the do-gooders from doing it using any of the easy peaceful no-fuss ways, and be forced to do something nasty and unlikely to work.
There are a lot of old people who've just had enough of it all. Over 80% of people want voluntary euthanasia to be legal, but when we finally get it the busy-body interferers have saddled it with so many conditions that its pretty much impossible to access. The medical profession that is so demonstrably incapable of giving us a decent quality of life in our old age demanded to be the gatekeepers for it, and was given the keys. We can only go when they've extracted as much business from us that they can, given up, and whatever it is is imminently going to take us anyway.
Its not your life I'm talking about. Its mine. And if its mine its my choice when I end it. Not yours. Not the do-gooders.
Its not your life I'm talking about. Its mine
Not applicable where Styrofoam bike helmets are compulsory.
Obey.
Agreed. I am being treated for a condition that evolved from specialist medical treatment.
"just getting sicker despite, and in some cases because, of the more and more intrusive and ineffective measures by the medical profession"
My lifetime Pill regime was to take one aspro at night if I felt crook ,and if that didn't work another aspro in the morning. That's all it needed
Then science discovered Aspro was a killer and that was the end of it. Maybr Pharma wasn't making enough out of it.
My skin related condition involves intermittent bouts of pain, and I was recommenfed paracetomol.
So I bought a packet of 100 for $2.99. It was miles cheaper than enything else. There was no 50 packet.
When I went back and found only 50 packs at $1.99, no 100 packs.
Voluntary euthanasia was strongly supported by Dan Andrews, but when the legislation failed people started to die in Nursing Homes.
It bothers me to this day, but nonetheless, my recommendation is that you book yourself into a Nursing home, and wait to be culled
Paracetamol is a popular choice amongst teens. Teen's who have a full life ahead of them, but are in a dark place, maybe due to bullying or something and just needs help. If you think you've got nothing left in your life, you do whatever you want.
Just to stir shit up think it as snow flake at 1% of the price! Bargain in my noses sense!
I was at a different chemist this week, and another staff member served another persin while I was waiting.
Apparently, the customer had gone through 500 tabs, and the staffvmember said 'these should.have lasted you longer than that!' I didnt hear how long, but then she gave her their own brand!!
What tablets though?
Placebos 😊
But if you knew they were placebos they wouldn't work.
Lots of valid concerns about paracetamol safety being expressed here. Meanwhile Ozbargainer jason101 is throwing in 50 paracetamol with every purchase of 280 hay fever tablets.
https://pharmacysavings.com.au/products/280-x-hayfexo-fexofe…
Who "needs" 280 hay fever tablets?
.
Agree. And selling medicines in bulk like this, especially those with known downsides, is arguably not best practice for a health professional.
Why?
@tenpercent: Ideally, consumers would fully inform themselves about the risk of organ failure and death from over use of particular medicines (including OTC) and about the harmful and sometimes fatal interactions that can occur between medicines. In the real world however, pharmacists have quite some value to add by talking to people and warning them about these issues. Not every pharmacist will advise effectively and not every consumer will listen, but the process of involving a trained pharmacist in the purchase of 'pharmacist only' medicines can definitely make people stop and think and can reduce harm overall.
Families?
That a joke?
Melbourne/Canberra are the allergy capital of the world. It's more like who doesn't need it
I have transitioned. No longer consider myself a simpering ozophite. For heaven's sake, just decrease demand by stopping your purchase where prices are stupid. This forum is awesome, and should show more leadership on such issues. ChemWare wants to charge more? Stop buying. Their volume will fall, prices will follow. Accept their increase, and watch the price rise again. WE have the power, unless we give it to them.
Same goes everywhere. Be strong. Survive. Prosper. It's you or the corporates.
Actually, in the absence of strong competition, a seller can maximise revenue by putting up prices and sacrificing volume -replacing low margin sales at high volume with high margin sales at lower volume. When competition is strong, this strategy works less well.
Have you ever thought about a high profitable industry need IPO? They are retail. Buy and sell. No risk.
What?
It seems that a lot of people didn't bother reading the link from the first response.
It actually says:
make other pack sizes of up to 100 tablets or capsules available only under the supervision of a pharmacist (i.e. ‘Pharmacist Only Medicines’).
Apparently "Pharmacist Only Medicines" means that while you do not need a prescription for them, you will have to speak to a pharmacist to be able to purchase them.
Yes, this is an inconvenience for people who genuinely need 100 packs of paracetamol but I wouldn't expect this to affect the majority of people.
a lot of people didn't bother reading the link
Nope. We read it. I think the vast majority of us well understand that the gatekeeper here is the pharmacist not a GP. It is the pharmacist whom the TGA has appointed to simultaneously act as policeman and severe mental health episode triage nurse. The issue is that that most of the time the pharmacist has another job to do… wait for it… being a pharmacist. So now you have to get in the queue to ask "pretty please" for the 100 packs, get interrogated about your need/intent for it in a public setting, before then getting in the queue to pay for it.
Amongst the tablets I now take daily is thiamine. When my husband tried to get two bottles of 50 (to match up with another table that comes in bottles of 100), CW told him they were only meant to provide one bottle at a time. He (CW worker) then rolled his eyes and said 'here, one for you, one for your wife'.
Still have no idea why it is restricted…
I pay for Panadol as I'd miss out on the placebo effect with Panamax, but in a pinch I'd probably go for the 33% more option for the same reason.
It's less shrinkflation and more the changes to maximum package sizes with paracetamol
The 100 packs are still available for $2.99 but are now restricted to being delivered by the pharmacist.
It makes sense that the price went up for 50 packs, there is more packaging, they take up more space to transport, etc.