Just had a message from my electricity provider that they will be installing a smart meter on my house. I haven't requested this or know much about them.
What does the ozbargain community think? Which meter is better, traditional or smart and why? Are there any benefits of having the older meter?
Cheers
Confirmed.
What are you talking about, this is the deal everyone in Ozbargain should be jumping onto:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-27/nt-electricity-worker…
It's kind of academic because they're going to install one whether you want it or not. The upsides are that you can get detailed usage information in 5 minute blocks, if that's valuable to you. The downside is that your electricity provider can also do that and they tend to use it to slug you extra for using electricity in times of demand.
Only if you switch to a time of use tariff.
sometimes they generally automatically switch you over to it (they did with me).
I was with a smaller retailer when mine happened, and they refused to revert the tariff with the distributor (as they didn't offer it for smart meter homes).
Had to go to a bigger retailer, that would accept SM with a non-demand tariff.
just food for thought
Yeah, the new tariffs are forced.
Otherwise they throw you onto the equivalent demand tariff which is even worse than time of use.
@[Deactivated]: yeah. how it was explained to me was that some retailers offer specific tariffs for their smart meters (N72/N73) and analog (N70/N71).
This is done to phase out non-demand tariffs (less profitable), by only having demand tariffs on their smart meter, the demand becomes the closest substitute to your old tariff, and they're permitted to put you on it without explicit consent.
when you get pushed onto a SM, if you're with a you then get a bill with a demand component.
If you're like my house (everyone wakes up at 6-7 and everyone comes home between 4-5 turns on kettles/showers/air-con) and have small blips of high energy usage but otherwise use lower than avg. night electricity and have solar during the day, the demand component can be a significant chunk of the bill.
@JDMcarfan: Retailers don't have a say on the tarriff you are on. That's the distributor. Any change of tarriff has to go to the distributor (but via the retailer generally).
Just clearing that up in case someone in the future reads through this thread.
Retailers don't have a say on the tarriff you are on.
Except many retailers (or rather their support staff) are ignorant and will not help you to get what you want. You can't ask the distributor for a tariff switch directly and getting a retailer to do that is near impossible. Instead they come up with outright lies. Other than dragging them to the ombudsman (which is a protracted process that may not yield any results), you don't have many options. When I shopped around for a low cost retailer that would do the tariff switch for me, they all refused. I guess they'd rather not take on customers that are "difficult".
When Momentum/Ausgrid switched me to a smart meter they effed up and moved the hot water system from CL2 to CL1. We were regularly out of hot water for about 6 weeks until they got it fixed. Five of those weeks were spent dealing with the retailer and convincing them to do something about it. And that's with a retailer that has Australian call centers. I'd expect you would have no chance with a retailer that uses off-shore low cost labour to deal with customer support.
Nah it's different to time of use (peak vs off-peak).
https://wattever.com.au/demand-tariffs-in-nsw/
not really, if you're in Ausgrid they will slap you with either time of use of demand tariff the moment you have smart meter. Both are equally evil, they will let you on old single rate if you cry enough, but only for a year so 'you have better understaanding of your usage patterns'
I’m not in the Ausgrid network, can you expand on this? Do they not allow retailers to offer flat rate tariffs?
@mskeggs: When Ausgrid replace old meter with smart meter and the retailer does not instruct them otherwise, they put you on a transitional tariff for the first 12 months. Unless you make a lot of noise before the 12 months is up, you are then moved onto a demand tariff. If you do make a lot of noise and your retailer makes a request to Ausgrid on your behalf to change tariffs, they may move you to a time of use tariff. However, Ausgrid can reject your request for change of tariff. As far as I know they don't have to explain why your request was rejected and you have no recourse. There is also a charge associated with the tariff change request.
A meter replacement means a change of tariff. If a meter is replaced you can not stay on the old tariff.
I've gone into the trouble of actually reading through the regulator approved paper work about 16 months ago, when I was affected. There are a couple of flow charts that explain it. Different rules apply to residential, business and industrial customers. I don't know if anything has changed in the last year. If there were changes, I'd bet that they would not be beneficial to the residential customer.
@peteru: Oh, I should also add that you can not change to a TOU tariff as soon as the meter is replaced. You need to wait about 3 months so that you "can make an informed decision based on your usage history". That's a thinly disguised excuse for a road block that's supposed to discourage customers from making a change that would result in them not being on a demand tariff.
@peteru: Same in Endeavour network they have a blueprint and flow chart on the sm process. Same deal after 12 months move to Demand or TOU. No one will tell you this you have to find out yourself. The retailer just tells you the standard spiel that your tariff may or may not change.
No they won't/can't.
Disabling the remote communication means your meter will need to be read manually, likely by a technician this may incur a fee.
The read fee (about $15) may end up cheaper than demand charges. I wonder if you could avoid the read fee with a retailer that allows self-reads, where you upload pictures of the meter as evidence.
@peteru: Even for $15 a month, that seems to be much cheaper than any demand supply my friends are getting charged
will be installing a smart meter on my house.
Replacing their old analogue meter with a newer smart meter. You already have a meter so it's not like they installing additional equip.
Main benefit for the supplier is no longer needing to visit sites to read meters, potentially improved accuracy, along with more accurate time based readings for both in and out flows.
For you, the ability to change electricity plans with minimal switching delay is the biggest one. You can now chase sign up bonuses and switch as often as you like, without needing to wait for your next meter reading.
Not much choice in plans
They will nearly always be demand/time of use based with the major suppliers so they can slug you more.
Good luck finding a plan with a fixed rate.
But they do exist.
1. So check the fine details of the plans
2. Look where all the rates throught the day and year are the same
3. Search for the provider with the lowest rate and lowest daily supply fee
I found the best one recently with Kogan Energy!
Good luck finding a plan with a fixed rate.
Energy Made Easy had a tonne of non-TOU plans, there's literally a tab at the top to click which switches.
Energy Made Easy had a tonne of non-TOU plans, there's literally a tab at the top to click which switches.
Now try calling up a retailer and ask them to switch you to those single/fixed rate (aka bait-n-switch) plans. You will get the same answer from all of them. "This plan is not available to you." Then they'll try to put you on a demand plan. I've got plenty of experience with this in NSW.
Best bet is to have an old mechanical meter. Then the only plan they can put you on is a single rate plan, possibly with controlled load. Which is a win for most people with hungry appliances, like electric stoves and ovens. If all you have is a laptop, a bunch of LED lights, don't cook and don't make tea/coffee, then a demand tariff may be OK. Real people will usually have at least a few appliances that will collectively draw 10A+ for 15 minutes.
My (admittedly narrow) experience with variable rate plans is that they don't actually vary the rate that often, typically annually. In which case if you're not happy with the rate, shop around!
The most I ever had was 3 variations in 12 months, so it's not like they change the rate on a monthly basis. Yet.
Not in WA., I had a “smart” meter installed a few years ago and assumed I could get live usage data, but I can’t. So it only benefits Synergy, which is our only allowed electricity provider over here.
Either keep Flat or Time of Use tariffs.
Avoid the demand tariffs if your usage is peaky, i.e. you'd have air con, electric cooking, EV charging, all at once.
EVs are becoming more and more common, new builds and including EV chargers as part of their package.
It may not be a part of your vocabulary just now. But it may be in the future.
yeah well renters will never be able to have an EV because we cant get solor or EV chargers installed. anyways its something thats not really used.. yet. it will. thats why i was laughing
@WhyAmICommenting: cool. lucky you. wish i could get it, then id just leave AC on 24/7 and not worry about stupid power bills.
@sandman20104159: Yeah it sucks that renters have mostly missed out on solar. Hopefully that will change in the near future.
@WhyAmICommenting: Mate of mine rents out his old house with solar and ev charger his getting an extra $80 a week compared to a similar property he has without solar. His think of putting solar on that one when the lease ends.
@2esc: so instead of it being $600 its $680… yeah f that! its already stupidly priced and no chance ever returning back to normal price.
@sandman20104159: I thought I'd be last person to have an electric vehicle, yet I do. And I charge it from a normal GPO.
edit:…at night, so solar makes no difference. i.e. a renter could do the same
@sandman20104159: Why would you landlord up your rent if you have an EV? You're paying for electricity anyway, what's it to them?
@sandman20104159: So you want to not pay for power, have the landlord fork out extra $ to install it for you and then not pay an increase in rent?
You see how what you want is all one sided and no benefit to the landlord? Maybe that's why they won't hand out cash
@knobbs: i never said that, i would pay for it so i can do it but nope they dont want to do that. i wish i could get a panel stick it up myself and wire it into my aircon.
If it's Ausgrid, they don't let you stay on the Flat tariff.
There used to be an equivalent of the flat tariff, but that was a transitional arrangement by some providers, but technically it's on the time of use tariff type but at a flat rate. That rate is still higher than the normal traditional meter tariff.
They may be called smart meters but they are not very smart.
I had a meter that was faulty. The electricity consumed over a period did not correspond to the start and end value meter readings. They denied it was a meter problem and I had to take it to the ombudsman for them to admit there was a meter problem.
I've still got the non smart digital meter. Energy provider has tried twice over the last couple years to replace with smart meter.
I've declined it both times as I prefer to be on a single tariff after checking neighbours smart meter tariffs.
Although the day will come soon I'm sure when I won't be able to opt out.
Scroll down to bottom of email in small print you should be able to opt out if you wish.
Smart meter upgrade is not a big issue if they allow you to remain on single/flat rate.
They can harvest the usage pattern data and save money on manual reading costs for all they want.
Forcing people onto demand or TOU plans which are significantly more expensive for most people, is a total money grab. Evil.
They don't let you stay on single rate though. Ausgrid, major energy network provider around Sydney area force all energy providers to put you into TOU plans once you're on smart meter.
True, I got a smart meter recently and was moved to TOU by Ausgrid, however when I compare plans to switch to, most of the providers still seem to offer a "flat rate" i.e. peak and off peak is same price, and seem to be the same prices as actual flat rate when I get quotes for my neighbours' addresses
@surfingedge: They don't offer flat rate, they just advertise it. Call and try to get the flat rate, you can't
Are there any benefits of having the older meter?
If your old analogue meter runs slows it could be good.
Or if you're very lonely or live somewhere remote and don't see people much you could get an extra chin wag once or twice a year.
You'll have to dig out your old material, this thread is about smart metres.
You'll have to dig out your old material, this thread is about smart
metresmeters.
FTFY
You attempted to made it about
You raised covid vaccines and 5g.
@2esc: I wasn't trying to start yet another covid thread, I was just drawing a comparison. Looks like reading comprehension has been adversely affected by people sitting too close to their smart meters without a proper tin foil hat.
Sorry to hear that happened to you and sorry to hear people are still trying to gaslight you. I had 3 colleagues in my immediate team of 10 who were all hospitalised the same days they got their covid vaccines. Two of them were hospitalised for over a week, the third was hospitalised for over a month and off work for around 3 months.
To be fair, you might get a smart meter with 4G communication, so you don't have to miss out on all of the fun 🤣
If you can avoid peak pricing your bills might be a little cheaper. Of course, if you can't, your bills will be considerably more.
wish they would update mine to a smart one… i hate taking pics and uploading it manually.
wish they would update mine to a smart one… i hate taking pics and uploading it manually
You realise that you don't have to do that? You can pay the estimated charges and get bill adjustments a few times a year. My first adjustment after moving was a few hundred dollars I had to pay. The next one was a few dollars as the retailer had enough history to make a reasonable guess on the estimates.
Even if you want accurate billing, the amount of money you save by taking a picture once a month is worth it. Demand billing can be nasty.
We have an old meter box with asbestos. Wonder how they'll forcibly try make us change
You're not the only one who's in that situation.
They dont care about the asbestos board.
My 40 year old meter board with ceramic pull out wire fuses, no RCD or Circuit breakers was upgraded to smart meters 5 years ago
All they did was swap meters and slap a orange sticker on the boards saying the board contains asbestos.
Before I got my Roof Solar installed 4 years ago, I had electrician upgrade my meter board and switch to RCD breakers.
i had a similiar but older set up without the asbestos. the only concern with the old meter was they had to take it away for proper disposal cause it contained radioactive material.
Every person licensed to replace a meter is also trained on how to handle locations with ACM*. It's common and a routine job for them.
Smart meters are nice because you can see your usage basically live on an app. Downside is, and I think this is what boomers are scared of, is that you can be remotely disconnected for rolling blackouts. But with energy being a big election issue maybe that won't be a problem? Hahahaha.
For load shedding, they'd disconnect entire suburbs at once, smart meter or not it wouldn't make a difference.
You can't rig a smart meter to read low.
The guy they recently prosecuted knew how to rig his old type meter to read low. He was an electrician. Bizarrely he could have just wired a couple of the circuits in his house to not go through the meter, but he used the old magnet trick to slow the wheel turning.
They will move you onto the new tariffs as well.
No more cheap electricity.
It has been painful for me since about 3 years ago, I am now seeing $700-$1000 bills per quarter… The equivalent on the cheaper tariffs would have been ~$500.
If you are in the Ausgrid area, you cannot go back… If I recall, you may opt out of demand tariffs and select the time of use tariff; however, this is typically only permitted after a minimum of 12 months on the demand tariff.
are you using electric hws?
Sounds like you're not using appliances during off peak.
There's a window but (if I remember the details correctly) it is after 3 and before 12 months. The excuse is that they want you to have at least 3 months worth of usage data before you make the decision. You first go on transitional tariff for 12 months, then at the end of 12 months, if you have not asked to be switched to TOU, you get automatically moved to demand tariff. From then on, you are screwed because the trap is closed.
The biggest difficulty is finding a retailer that will action this tariff switch on your behalf, because you can't ask Ausgrid directly to do a tariff switch.
Try to move as much electricity usage into off peak hours. Run the dishwasher at midnight for example, assuming you don't have solar PV.
Ultimately you're being forced to move onto ToU metering because it makes more money for electricity providers. That's just the way it is. They wouldn't spend money changing meters otherwise.
Can't bypass the meter if it's a smart meter (change the switch from NO to NC), also means there's a connection and disconnection fee at a lot of places, then they still send someone out to check it out
Electricity generators have to cover all the huge costs to install renewables, and use the extra unrequired electricity during sun shine hours. So smart meters allow them to charge you more.
But don't worry, we were promised that "electricity bills will be $275 lower under Labor". 🤣
You can 100% tell them that you wish to keep your old analogue meter. You are under no obligation to change to a smart meter.
Every person I know who has had smart meter installed has been put on demand tariff plan and their bill has gone up. From being on anytime usage when their bill was cheaper. Of course, your mileage may vary.
The email or letter my local provider sent me had an opt out clause.
If you’re in NSW and your profile says you are OP. You will have that option too. You CAN OPT OUT ON HAVING SMART METER INSTALLED!
If in doubt contact the NSW Electricity and water Ombudsman for unbiased advice on your rights.
I recently opted out of a meter upgrade. Then a few weeks later, got a follow up email to say that the opt out is not an option from 1 June 2025. New AEMC ruling.
The loophole is to switch the provider and the old provider will themselves cancel it, happened to me, but I did have option to cancel it which I didn't.
I think it was by 2030 all meters well be upgraded to smart meter whether you like it or not.
Actually - I just went to try and find information about the updated ruling from 1 June 2025. I think what has actually happened, is that the option to opt-out of a smart meter install is being removed from 'default' (standard retail) contracts.
In that respect, I find that the email that I received from Alinta is misleading. This was in their email:-
The Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC) has introduced a new rule to speed up the rollout of smart meters across New South Wales, Queensland and South Australia. From 1 June 2025, all customers will be required to upgrade to a smart meter, meaning the option to opt out will no longer be available.
As a result of this change, Alinta Energy will be rescheduling the upgrade of your electricity meter, which will take place from 1 June 2025.
Sorry you're 100% wrong. It's no longer optional.
I called my provider and told them no and they said they would pause the switchover for 18 months.
They are installing it so the have the power to turn off your electricity remotely, something that has happened in modern western so called democracies.
It has nothing to do with money, it’s about control.
I went through the same process. You'll be able to defer the change to a smart meter if you contact the number provided in your notification and cancel the change.
Simple process only took me about 3mins.
They said next time I get a notice about a change to smart meter to simply contact them again to cancel it again.
This will only happen for likely the next couple of years, at which point, the change will become mandatory.
I had my meter changed over to the digital one and regret it everyday.
Just sayin as per my experience when the solar panel installer left my inverter on without telling me to change the meter…. that shit was spinning backwards. Not legal though, you may or may not want to get it changed out to be charged correctly :) (Imagine if you had an electric car, that shit is like having an oil field under your house. And ethically I wouldn't call it "stealing" as your meter retards/spins backwards exactly proportional to how much you've exported)
With a digital meter, I am on my last legs with the anytime tarrif. Most plans now will force you onto a time of use/demand tarrif. It could be like 15c/kWh at midnight, but like 70c/kWh at 6PM etc…
The good thing is that you can change electrcity providers much more easily without waiting for the end of the quarter for a final read. That means you could churn through bonus signup credits from different providers.
8c a kw 12-6am
ya getting ripped
yes old meter spins backwards that is why if they caught on they will replace asap that's there fault as it's already lodged with the wholesaler
yes the smart meter can provide reads every 5 minutes no more people rocking up
OP, share the strategies you are planning to physically block the installation of a smart meter if you determine they aren't for you.
Not OP, but I'd just make a lockable enclosure to the meter with a cutout for readings. Legally the breaker switches will need to be left accessible.
If you don't comply they can and will disconnect you from the street as a last resort. That happened to a cooker in Melbourne.
Plot twist: The cooker was a gas stove.
Oh no down the rabbit hole we go again and again…..That hole must be full of people LOLZ
That website is garbage. Tin foil hat territory.
Do you have any actual criticisms, or just ad-hominem?
Just browse that web site…
I'm pro Smart Meter because it would send your readings accurately every 5 minutes via 4G/5G to the wholesalers and no one needs to rock up at your place
Set all your charging / energy use to be done between 12am-6am for 8c a kw and if you got batteries (I don't have) perfect time to charge them up overnight for use during the day. Dishwasher, Pool pump, pool filter, EV charging. Turn your off peak hot water system to boil at 12am-6am.
Overall having this saved me 30-40% in costs if I was to have a traditional meter as they wouldn't know when the energy was used
Yes outlaying $10k+ on a battery saves you 30-40% not the smart metre
I thought this was a topic for discussion in 2013.