Tossing between Bosch series 8 or miele dishwasher.
I’ve read that Bosch makes these to last around 10-12 years whereas miele makes it to last 20+ years
Also drying is a big one for me is zeolith better tech or heat pump?
Please help and vote so I can make definitive decision
Edit: ended up buying Bosch S8 https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/16623747/redir
don't compare to mercedes or bmw, that will discourage him to buy something else. i know those cars have no reliability and longevity, because i use to own both. lol
You cannot compare anything made 20 years ago with todays manufacture.
20 years ago they were made to last
Today its all about lowest cost of manufacture
And when you mention "German engineering" that has become ancient history as well.
Not much is made or engineered in Germany any more.
similar things were said 20 years ago
That just implies that everything is trending to terrible and has been for a long time. Is that so hard to believe?
All German cars, machines and engineering in general were good 20 years ago
I realise you said "engineered", however most of the Bosch models are made in China and Turkey they are NOT all manufactured to the same quality standards.
"most of the Bosch models are made in China and Turkey"
That is not true.
If you are talking dishwashers, Series 2 & 4 are from Turkey and Series 6 & 8 are Germany.
Nothing to do with China.
Bosch appliances overall are mainly manufactured in Europe.
The only appliances in their range I can think of that would be manufactured in China are the new French Door fridges which is a B/S/H factory and few cheap microwaves.
Incorrect the series 2 targeted for Australia (highly popular by volume) is often manufactured in China. It's based on demand.
The higher end Bosch models sold in Australia primarily come from the USA. Ironically China build quality is higher, ask a Tesla owner.
Some Bosch models sold in Australia also come from Spain and Turkey, it's very much a case of check the batch,
@UltimateAI: No that is all incorrect.
There are no Spain or Chinese made Bosch dishwashers in Australia.
you can't go wrong either way, i say get the cheapest with the features you need.
Six of the top ten dishwashers sold by Appliances Online are Bosch; popular isn't always good, suggest you check them out in-person
Could that be that Appliances online gives better discount on Bosch than any other retailer?
suggest you check them out in-person
Can I take a tub of dirty dishes and wash them in store?
An influencer I could be convinced to maybe watch.
Hyacinth style
It's bouquet!!
miele makes it to last 20+ years
They used to make long lasting machines, now they're just made to appeal to badge snobs who want something flashy in the kitchen.
The problem with that statement is it will take the current ones lasting 20+ years to disprove you.
They'll be dead before the end of the decade.
$1800 dishwasher with 2 year warranty - maybe 20 years? approx $100 a year
$350-500 dishwasher with 2 year warranty - maybe 4 years? about the same?
All depends on how accurate the lifespan guess is.
There no chance any washing machine made today is lasting 20 years.
Okay but what about a dishwasher?
What about the inconvenience of not being without a dishwasher for around a week each time?
It's just a dishwasher. Not a washing machine.
If you get a Miele, make sure you get the model with the cutlery tray, not the basket. It's hard to keep things from touching. Occasionally pieces come out dirty. Apart from that, I've replaced other brands (including Fisher & Paykel and a not very old Asko) with Miele in different houses and never had a problem with Miele.
Your question might be 'how long do I plan to stay in this house'. If only a short time, you might think less expensive brand.
Asko…….lots of brand image and also an opportunity to get to know your local repair technician on first name terms…🤔
This is true.
Their story is not to different to Fisher Paykel that they have been bought out etc. and it is just a brand name. ASKO today is not ASKO.
ASKO was once a Swedish manufacturer that competed with Miele and Bosch but they were bought out by Gorenje and they moved the manufacturing from Sweden to Scandinavia.
Quality and performance dropped and then the company was bought out by Hisense.
https://www.channelnews.com.au/exclusiveasko-fast-becoming-a…
They don’t sell very well overseas and apparently we are the biggest market for them and it’s because of being an Agency/Proforma brand.
Not many brands I would tell people not buy, but this brand is definitely high on the list as the price point gives you an average product and terrible service.
and they moved the manufacturing from Sweden to Scandinavia.
Which countries do you think make up the region commonly referred to as Scandinavia?
@Grunntt: Sorry they manufacture in Slovenia which is the Gorenje factories.
Which is why they market with terms like “Inspired by Scandinavia”.
As it turns out, Gorenje was bought by Hisense. ASKO is AFAIK now produced in China.
Btw, Sweden is one of the 3 countries that make up Scandinavia.
@orangehead911: They are owned by Hisense, not manufactured by Hisense.
Manufacturing is in Slovenia which are effectively the Gorenje factories.
I replaced my old Miele with a new, upgraded Miele, and it doesn’t wash properly at all. Dishes come out unclean and covered in soap residue. Miele technicians have come to check it multiple times, connected their diagnostic tools, and claimed everything is fine. Now they say they’ll send another technician. Miele’s customer service has been terrible and rude throughout the process. In my opinion, stay away from Miele.
That’s good to know. Post sale customer service is definitely something I consider when buying white goods.
Yeah I didn't have great experience with their vacuum cleaner warranty service. Got there eventually but it was an unnecessary saga.
Suggest perhaps you are using an eco, quiet or quick cycle, or perhaps your detergent.
In my old Miele, finish power worked great, but not in the new one.
Autodos works well and when using the finish "tabs" the results are the same as before.
The quiet cycle doesn't have the power.
If it doesn’t work as expected you have the right to a full refund under consumer law.
Tell them you want a refund.
Dishes come out unclean and covered in soap residue.
I find the same with a very new Series 6 Bosch. It's not as effective as my previous cheap-ass dishwasher. Sometimes it leaves bits of food, sometimes there's bits of dishwasher powder left sitting wherever there is pooled water. Sometimes it's fine.
I want the one with the auto open drying. I think the Bosch fully integrated doesn’t do that so I’m going Miele.
I’m going freestanding. And both have auto open.
That is correct, Freestanding Series 8 has Heat Exchanger and Auto-Door open.
Bosch Series 8 have that option, there are Fully Integrated models that have all 3 drying systems.
Heat Exchanger, Zeolith and Auto-Door open.
Standard Height ( 815mm - 875mm ) Model - SMT8ZC801A
TallTub ( 865mm - 925mm ) Model - SBT8ZC801A
Is it hard to put on front panels by yourself on fully integrated ones?
I wouldn’t say it is hard, but it is time consuming which is why trades often charge a but more to do it.
I will link a visual example below.
I have semi-integrated; I reckon the hard bit is sourcing kickboard and cabinet front made to size
@sumyungguy: What’s the height of your dishwasher cavity?
I am aware of Bosch bringing out a new Semi-Integrated but it will be a TallTub model.
@Retailing: Mine is that feared other brand that begins with M. My comment was more about how a DIY person will find it's an effort to organise a bespoke cabinet front; in my case I had one included in my kitchen reno; easily transferred to a new DW… because yes, they only last 15 years before needing repairs, perhaps because unlike laundry applicances in many households a DW gets used daily.
@sumyungguy: Haha nothing wrong with Miele dishwashers but just a bit of misconceptions with marketing/advertising etc. which is why I thought I would put a comment with a run through.
If you have an existing semi-integrated then you can transfer the panels over to the new dishwasher, it is just a matter of measuring the height of the panel on the current dishwasher to ensure the height works with the door of the new.
You can always go the easier route of Free Standing or with a built-under in Stainless Steel SMU8ECS01A.
@bhunter101: Miele has a range of XXL models with more interior height, no idea about the Bosch equivalent
@bhunter101: They are not bigger inside.
A Freestanding dishwasher as the name suggests is designed to be installed freely which is why it has a body and lid around it, so effectively a box.
The only thing you need to check is the height of your dishwasher space, as the common dishwasher space is 850 tall which is why Bosch intentionally made theirs 845 in Height and they are otherwise generic in width and depth at 595-600.
Most Freestanding dishwashers allow you to remove the lid to save a tiny bit in height.
Naturally a Freestanding dishwasher sticks out a bit from a standard kitchen bench depth of 600 once you consider the hoses.
A Built-Under is not enclosed inside a box as it is designed to be Built-Under your bench. So the body of the dishwasher is on height adjustable feet which as you can see from my previous post ensures it will always fit and will not stick out from your bench and instead will be in-line with your cabinetry.
It is worth noting that in this case with the Series 8 Bosch, the Freestanding model will have a very different style cutlery tray at the top designed for odd shaped items like spatulas, ladles, lids etc. so usually means you end up keeping the cutlery basket in the bottom basket for your cutlery.
This is why the updated models have gone back to a more traditional style cutlery tray with height adjustable sides to fit larger handle cutlery.
Only the TallTub or XXL dishwashers will be bigger in height with the actual body of the dishwasher being taller, but it is just not as common to be able to fit a 865+ tall dishwasher since the generic standard in Australia being 850.
Weird I don’t see AutoOpen on the datasheet. PerfectDry isn’t the same thing right?
Yea it’s not greatly advertised as it looks like they focus to much on the Push to open door aspect when you download the data sheet.
If you go onto the product page, you scroll to the Comfort tab and it shows - EfficientDry through automatic door opening towards end of cycle
Yes
@Retailing: This is weird: I looked at this in June but I think it has changed now and there are 2 tall tub models which are slightly different but both in series 8.
There are two similar models in Series 8
SBV8ECX01A which does have the efficientdry auto opening listed https://www.bosch-home.com.au/en/mkt-product/dishwashing/und…
And SBT8ZC801A which DOESN'T have it listed any more https://www.bosch-home.com.au/en/mkt-product/dishwashing/und…
Am I wrong?
Thats the one I have and it doesn't wash well.
??? You said you have a Miele?
yes, miele auto open one. it doesn't wash well.
"miele makes it to last 20+ years"…..
Really?
You must read reviews on the specific models. Even on Miele I've read horror stories on modern appliances.
Buying whitegoods now a days is not the same as it used to be 10-20 years ago, where you would go to a shop and come out with a good deal on an appliance that would last 15 years. Even, some modern Miele appliances start giving problems 2 years from purchase.
You must read the online reviews!
There's no chance a Miele will last twenty years
A family member services things like this for people when they're out of warranty and they said that the parts for Miele are so expensive that they just throw them out
Miele are for rich house wives to show off to their friends that they have a miele
^This - my Miele cooktop required a part and the repair quote was $100 shy of the cost of a new cooktop.
Remember that Australian Consumer Guarantees generally far outlive the manufacturer's warranty. An expensive dishwasher is covered under Consumer Guarantees much longer than warranty periods of two or so years.
True, our last Miele lasted around 8 years, then was quoted $800 to replace a mainboard. The tech did replace a sub-board, heater, but could not locate the problem.
Replaced it with another Miele.
Prior to that was a Bosch, that was also good and lasted years. Both are good picks
Go with the Bosch Series 8.
You will get a far superior dishwasher for the money, as the market price for a Series 8 Bosch is around $1,800-$2,500 depending on the design you go with ( Freestanding, Built-Under, Semi-Integrated, Fully Integrated & TallTub )
I will put a general run down below to try to explain,
Series 8 Bosch will be Made in Germany, Quieter at 42db/40db, Drying systems depend on model/design but the standard is always the Heat Exchanger and then depending on the model/design you can get additional drying systems of Auto-Door open and Zeolith drying which works really well.
The internal layout will also be very flexible, with foldable prongs in the middle rack and the bottom rack can fold to the point of being flat, wine steam holders and newer variants have 3 jets you can turn on and off in the middle basket which is great for Tupperware, Bowls etc. to get an aggressive wash in the middle basket.
Similar priced Miele will be Series 5000.
Unfortunately in Australia, Miele is one of a few brands that are “Agency/Proforma” which means the pricing is controlled by the brand and is inflated compared to other countries.
Retailers/Salespeople love this as it pays a large commission, which is why they will just naturally tell you that Miele or other agency brands are better.
Having worked in different retailers, it is disturbing how much salespeople in a commission driven scenario will push you into something and literally lie to your face about one appliance being better, quieter etc.
In reality, you would need to pay a lot more in a Series 7000 Miele to get something similar to the Series 8 Bosch.
A Series 5000 Miele, will be incredibly simple in terms of layout and flexibility is pretty much non existent with often not even offering the basics of wine stem holders. They will be much louder at 46db which is nuts for at this price point, with the only saving grace is at least providing Auto-Door.
Do not fall for the marketing of the “Miele 20 Years” in reality it is just a factory test which is based on simulating 20 years.
From my own personal experience of owning Miele products and dealing with customers who have owned Miele appliances, this is really averages closer to around 10 years.
Miele actually advises this on their website if you look and in the terms and they cover themselves with ending each statement with “This does not represent any assurance or guarantee of a durability of our marketed dishwashers for 20 years.”
You will see lots of reviews of people having issues around 10 years or less and often quote “20 years” and how they were persuaded by a salesperson or purchased Miele thinking it will last 20+ years so please for the love of god don’t base your purchase on what you could debate is deceptive marketing and base it on what you are actually getting spec/spec and what your needs are.
Bosch and Miele are both great in terms of quality but hopefully this helps you understand why there is a fair bit of misguidance as a consumer.
Happy to help with doing comparisons if you need help with models etc.
Less than a decade ago the price would be nearer $500 as opposed to $2K..🤔
Yea it’s not getting any better, almost all brands have had multiple price rises and Miele dishwashers have gone up by about $200.
Bosch hasn’t done one yet, but there are whispers that they will finally have to do a price rise soon as the AUD to EURO is pretty bad.
I’m thinking freestanding.
What do you think of Zeolith drying system as freestanding doesn’t have it. I can get freestanding ones for around $1800ish and fully integrated for $2150. Plus front panel cost for integrated ones. Say $300 including time and $$. Is Zeolith drying worth it for that much extra?
The Freestanding option will dry almost everything as long as you use a normal wash cycle, rinse aid and it has the Extra Dry function to do a hotter final rinse.
The Auto-Door open at the end will help dry the difficult items that every dishwasher struggles with such as Tupperware/Plastics since these items cannot retain heat, so the door pops open and naturally with a bit of time it evaporates.
Depending on how people use their dishwasher, they sometimes still complain as the cycle finishes and they want to put the dishes away straight away instead of waiting, so when they unload it straight away there will be small amounts of water sitting on the Tupperware/Plastics and in the little grooves/areas where the lips of the lid connect for example.
My recommendation for Auto-Door dishwashers is to run the dishwasher on ECO and over night so it runs efficiently and by the time you are ready to unload it the next day the door has been open for hours so everything will be dry.
Otherwise just wait a little bit before unloading :D
Zeolith does work well and is a clever and efficient way to introduce heat into the dishwasher to help dry the Tupperware/Plastic items and the integrated options still have the Auto-Door open afterward.
This system is there to compete with element or fan drying system which use power, in which the Zeolith uses very little.
I would personally go with a Zeolith dishwasher as I have experienced the system with Bosch and Siemens.
If you were comparing integrated dishwashers, this is where I would compare what you are getting for your money and it is night and day.
Bosch Series 8 Fully Integrated - SMT8ZC801A - RRP $2,599 (Not fixed priced/agency) Eg. $2,150 Appliances Online
42db/40db.
Heat Exchanger, Zeolith, Auto-Door Open.
Top Cutlery Tray - Adjustments on the left and right side of the tray for height of cutlery handles.
Middle Basket - The entire basket with foldable prongs and has the new 3 jet system.
Bottom Basket - The entire basket is adjustable to the point of folding flat plus Wine Stem holders.
Miele Series 5000 Fully Integrated - (G 5263 SCVi BK ) RRP $2,499 now $2,249.10 ends 30th June.
46db.
Auto-Door Open.
Top Cutlery Tray - Adjusts/moves on right side only.
Middle Basket - No adjustments of prongs.
Bottom Basket - Only small section at front right has foldable prongs, no wine stem holders.
Great tip on running eco overnight then door open for hours by the time you get up, hadn't thought of it that way.
@muzzamo: I always put it on before I go to work, so that it's running/drying all day and can use my solar.
Thanks for detailed review. What is your thoughts on Gaggenau dishwasher, or generally all Gaggenau kitchen appliances? I am considering Gaggenau due to discount I could get (~30%) and 5 years warranty, but unsure heather it is worth to spend on Gaggenau, or go with Bosch kitchen appliances.
Interested in hearing about Gaggenau opinions as well.
Ps. 30% discount?! Lucky you…
I have a few Gaggenau appliances (2x ovens, microwave, warmer, fridge) and very happy with them.
No worries,
Sorry but not sorry that this response is going to be long to try to explain haha
Gaggenau is one of the only brands that I would say deserves the title of being “Premium”.
Not sure if someone has explained it to you into detail, but the level of quality control and even the materials used in the manufacturing process would make you would why they are not even more expensive.
Especially when brands like Fisher Paykel ( Haier ) have the nerve to charge this level of price point for their product in Australia.
A great example of the level of detail are the ovens, there is an incredible amount of hand assembly of the same trained technicians used, that they are even provide tools that are hand molded for them.
Even the oven doors/electronics are assembled in hermetically sealed environments.
You are not dealing with a brand that is aiming to just use machines to pump out as much as they can at a price point and it is all part of what puts Gaggenau leagues ahead.
They have a 90cm oven ( EB 333 ) which is a more extreme example as it is their nod to their overall years of development with the 333 being the age of Gaggenau at the time of release, this is only assembled by 1 or 2 technicians that are trained to manufacture this oven so they only produce 1 or 2 a day…
I could go on but hopefully that helps give you an idea of why a consumer or an appliance nerd such as myself would choose Gaggenau.
I would overall say the strongest products Gaggenau offer are the Ovens, Cooktops and Integrated Refrigerators.
I would often compare the bundle discounts for select Rangehoods ( Design and Installation requirements differ a lot with Rangehoods ) and Dishwashers when comparing to what is on offer by a competitor or often their partner brands eg. Bosch Series 8 Fully Integrated TallTub dishwasher and of course everyone’s needs or installation requirements are also unique for what works best for them.
B/S/H provides 4 brands for the Australian market with the tier being Gaggenau, NEFF, Siemens and Bosch.
Only some of the factories are shared and Dishwashers is one of them when comparing German Bosch and their above brands.
They are providing the #1 Selling Dishwashers in the world (Bosch), so the German factory alone produces 11-14,000 dishwashers a day… and every single dishwasher is tested.
A Gaggenau Dishwasher depending on which model you compare of Series 200 or 400 Series is effectively a closer product to a IQ700 Siemens or Bosch Series 8.
You can see and feel the differences with thick metal ball bearing runners or 400 series having the rear interior light up etc.
So as a package discount is it often worth it but by itself at RRP that is a harder ask and why some consumers would choose a Siemens or Series 8 Bosch as they weren’t bothered by the additional quirks and 9 times out of 10 they were going to Fully Integrated the dishwasher anyway and they are just happy to be keeping within the same brand/family.
It is worth noting that Gaggenau are due to release their new cooking range into Australia in October.
BOSCH
This range is incredibly popular and has just won awards for their ovens with “Most Satisfied Customers 2025” with Canstar and “Most Trusted Brand 2025” with Readers Digest.
Factors being the brand is incredibly well known and of course is much more affordable by not being a “Agency/Proforma” brand so it is priced aggressively in the market.
But overall it is because Bosch provides quality, great performance and the technology is way better than equivalent priced competitors let alone a lot more expensive competitor “Agency/Proforma” brands.
Bosch is closer/shared with Siemens from a German/European manufacturing point of view but mainly that it provides the Bosch/Siemens Sensor and AI Technology and even some parts from the Automotive aspects of B/S/H come into play for how their ovens cook and the automatic cooking functions work.
So if you look at Gaggenau or NEFF appliances, they are designed and marketed for people who like to cook and the idea of automatic programs or anything too “tech” is not the focus, there is some assistance still provided but not to the extent of Bosch/Siemens.
Bosch in Series 8 gives you both worlds of choosing manual cooking programs if you know what you are doing or just want to control it all yourself, but lots of people love the idea of an oven that cooks for them and I highly recommend them for people who want to get into Steam ovens because of this.
This technology and ease of use is where Bosch will stand out.
You will see in the top end Bosch called “AccentLine” that they have features called “PerfectBake Plus” or “Perfect Roast Plus” as this technology truely has reached the point that you don’t need to know how to cook, if you can get the food on the tray and in the oven you just press play.
There are built-in automatic cooking functions, but also through the App “Home Connect” there is a huge selection of things to cook and it has given so many people the confidence to cook things that they would never have tried before because the oven makes it that easy.
I would recommend downloading the app as it is free and you can add appliances as like an Oven in “demo mode” so you can get an idea of how easy it is, just select Oven and then “Oven Assistant” as this is great example.
Happy to go further into detail if you are needing to compare models etc.
Appreciate the detailed summary of the brand.
I ended up convincing the wife to go with Gaggenau over SubZero for integrated fridges (similar price point). The ovens are brilliant overall if you cook and worth it. Microwave… I'd recommend a standard Panasonic/LG over ours to do the same job.
@khomeini: Not a problem,
You will love it, and you have gone the correct way with the microwave.
Built-In microwaves only make sense in certain kitchens, like design/space saving.
Countless times I have had to point this out when looking at the designs or builders drawings to then question why the customer isn't just putting a $250-300 microwave in the walk-in pantry or make an alcove in the island bench for it to sit in.
Then suddenly they have saved thousands and love you for it and often just put the money towards the better product like a silent rangehood or wine cabinet etc. that they thought wasn't in the budget.
Thanks for detailed response. It seems like you work for BSH?
I am looking at Gaggenau 200 series 90cm cooktop, 90cm oven (not steam), and 90cm slide out range hood.
For dishwasher looking at Bosch Series 8 tall tub.
I would have gone Gaggenau dishwasher, but the Bosch appears superior, cheaper and as it's integrated, I can't see it anyway so aseththics isn't a concern.
Fridge I'm just going a standalone LG or Westinghouse. I'm not a huge fan of integrated fridge. Fridge I expect to not last after 7-10 years and I don't want the hassle to modifying joinery to replace a new model integrated fridge.
Washer and Dryer, I probably just stick with LG. Although I have hear great things about Miele standalone washer and dryer. I don't know much about Gaggenau washer and dryers if it is actual worth the expense.
Now I have a mixed bag of brands there but I think I am content with my selections
Hope to hear your feedback
@yellowfever: No worries,
I have just worked in the industry for over 15 years and have worked in different retailers.
So I have sold the cheapest brands to the most expensive and had the luxury of selling in a higher end retailer that didn’t make you sell based on commission and opened up the experience to sell and demonstrate the brands/products your everyday retailers like Harvey Norman, The Good Guys etc. don’t have access to.
Much nicer way to sell when you can treat every customer like family/friends without being punished for not selling extended warranties or X amount of a terrible brand for KPI’s etc.
And you can probably tell that I care to know a bit more than what the brochure says and why I can compare most brands/models from quick knowledge or experience.
Your Gaggenau cooking selection of appliances sounds good.
I would just ask if the 90cm oven was just purely a design decision?
The EB333 is an amazing oven, but depending how you cook it may not be as practical and why more people commonly go with 2 x 60cm 200 Series Ovens paired side by side or in a tower for example.
Integrated fridges are nice but the quality options that will last and are actually designed to be maintained/repaired with out removal from the space are going to be brands like Gaggenau, SubZero, Liebherr but even with the aggressive offers with SubZero currently available you are still looking at $16K+
It is a different world in Freestanding Fridges.
There are some good options in Liebherr which are still going to be around the $10-12K mark but otherwise I would strongly recommended considering Hitachi or Mitsubishi Electric for Freestanding fridges if you are wanting a quality fridge that is very efficient whilst providing different forms of food preservation to help your vegetables etc. last longer.
If you are insistent on having Ice & Water, then the brands you have mentioned are good but I would add Fisher Paykel into that list.
I would just note that the Ice & Water components are often needing a repair/replacement well before the 7-10 year mark and would be the most common claim with larger capacity fridges.
Washer and Dryer, I would recommend looking into Bosch Series 8 instead of over paying for Miele laundry appliances.
Gaggenau Laundry is not offered in Australia.
In fact it is effectively brought in under their partner brand Bosch with the latest top of the range Series 8.
Bosch 8 Series 10KG ( iDos ) - WGB256A1AU
Bosch 8 Series 10KG - ( No iDos ) - WGB25600AU
Bosch 8 Series Heat Pump Dryer - WQB235B8AU
Having a mixed bag of brands is a good thing, I recommend to everyone to do so as it means you will get better products for your money.
@Retailing: Thanks
Here is what I have selected (so far). Also typo above, it is 60cm oven (not 90cm EB333, too expensive)
If you got the time can I have your feedback
Gaggenau
1. 200 series Flex induction cooktop 90 cm CI292102
2. 200 series Flat kitchen hood 90 cm AF210192
3a. 200 series oven 60 x 60 cm BOP221102
3b. 200 series combi-steam oven 60 x 45 cm BSP271101 (maybe)
Bosch - alternative to Gaggenau above
1. Series 8 Flex induction cooktop 90 cm surface mount with frame PXX995KX5E
2. Series 8 integrated rangehood 86 cm Black DLN88PC60A
3a. Series 8 Built-in oven with added steam function 60 x 60 cm Black HRG978NB1A
3b. Series 8 Built-in oven with steam function 60 x 60 cm Black HSG958DB1A
Do you know difference of HRG978NB1A & HSG958DB1A?.."added steam function and "steam function"…..??"
I could get ~30% off either Gaggenau or Bosch. It works out the overall difference between G & B is around $4K. I'm still weighing up if spending extra ~$4K on Gaggenau is worth it. Gaggenau has 5yr warranty compared to Bosch 2 years, so I think it might be worth the investment? But I read rumours online that both come out of the same factory..?
Dishwasher Only - Bosch
Series 8 semi-integrated dishwasher 60 cm Brushed steel, Tall Tub SBI8EDS01A
Laundry, perhaps I'll reconsider Bosch for Washer and Dryer
I see you mentioned i-Dos model (WGB256A1AU)
Can the i-Dos model allow me to use different types detergents depending on the type of clothes I am washing? or do I have to pre-load the washer with only one type of detergent and that's it, I'm stuck with that detergent?
Fridge
Might pick a Bosch instead
I have found this model: Series 6 French Door Bottom freezer. KFD96AXEAA. I think it is plumbed water connection, which is what I prefer (not fill up a reservoir)
I can't find any higher spec fridge from Bosch. Options seem limited.
@yellowfever: No worries,
Gaggenau
This selection makes sense.
3b. Are you considering adding a Combination Steam Oven?
BOSCH
Again this is good.
If I was going this way, I would just consider changing the rangehood to the DBB97AM60A.
“Do you know difference of HRG978NB1A & HSG958DB1A?.."added steam function and "steam function"…..??”
HRG978NB1A - This is Added Steam or the generic term would be a Steam Assist Oven.
HSG958DB1A - Steam Function, this would be more generally known as a Full Steam or Combination Steam Oven.
To break this down as simply as I can, there are 3 types of oven.
Dry Oven - The most common type of oven that people own, we are using electric ovens so they produce a dry heat compared to gas ovens. As they remove/blow out the air at the top of the door the humidity from within the oven cavity is also lost. This is why when cooking a roast it starts to shrink for example, and why it is common people put water/stock in the base of their roasts.
Steam Assist Oven - This is still a Dry Oven with the option to add steam into the oven cavity. The better brands will have a water tank that you fill and you can manually or automatically have the oven burst moisture in the oven cavity as it cooks, so you roast doesn’t not shrink as much but also makes a world of difference for those who like to bake as the humidity help breads, cakes, pastries puff up / rise.
Full Steam / Combination Steam Oven - This oven can do the same and 1 and 2, the added benefit is that is can cook using just steam so effectively a massive steamer or can cook with the combination of oven element heat and steam at the same time. These ovens are capable of doing much more and is the type of ovens that restaurants/cafes often use, this is not only because of the cooking performance but these ovens are popular for their ability to reheat and defrost, steam cooking, preserve/jams, sterilising all the way to these better brands being able to Sous Vide.
The reheating/defrosting is a great function and is a bigger reason people opt for just having a cheap microwave on the bench or somewhere for the odd occasion as reheating food in these ovens would make you think it was cooked fresh, this is often another reason restaurants/cafes have them is to reheat large batches of food like lasagna for example and you would be non the wiser.
The common misunderstanding when steam is mentioned is just thinking vegetables and fish which they are actually great at cooking as they maintain far more nutrients/vitamins within the food compared to using a cooktop, so vegetables come out of the oven so vibrant in colour.
Steam is both hot/humid so you can cook vegetables, fish, rice etc. but things people don’t often realise is you can cook cheesecakes for example or risotto and for some it’s the simple things like eggs in the morning by just tearing off the top of the carton and popping them in for a few minutes while you cook some bacon. There is much to learn and do with these because of the versatility, I have even put a can of condensed milk into the oven with steam and turned it into caramel just because it was a slow day haha.
It is worth noting from a cleaning point of view, the 1 and 2 options will have the option of Pyrolytic Self Cleaning but a Full Steam / Combination Steam has a cleaning cycle using steam and descaling solution so a bit like maintaining a coffee machine.
“Gaggenau has 5yr warranty compared to Bosch 2 years, so I think it might be worth the investment? But I read rumours online that both come out of the same factory..?”
Both are great quality but a Gaggenau is manufactured to a different level with the quantity of material used and detail of manufacture and assembly.
The ovens are manufactured in completely different factories, the rumours are just because of the brands being under the same group of B/S/H Home Appliances and not many places even sell the product so it is a common misconception that Gaggenau is purely German.
Gaggenau is actually a German and French manufacturer with the ovens being manufactured in Lipsheim, France.
They are the oldest brand for B/S/H as it’s history started in 1683 in the Black Forest which borders Germany and France.
https://www.gaggenau.com/global/experience/inspiration/behin…
BOSCH Series 8 ovens are manufactured in Germany and are more closer with NEFF and Siemens, they are still much higher quality than most of the brands on offer today.
But we are talking about different brands with completely different focuses for what they are wanting to offer a consumer.
Which is why a Bosch Series 8 Oven will start at RRP $1,999 up to $6,799 where a Gaggenau is starting at RRP $7,699 up to $22,999.
“Dishwasher Only - Bosch
Series 8 semi-integrated dishwasher 60 cm Brushed steel, Tall Tub SBI8EDS01A”
This model is being replaced with the SMU8ECS01A which has just been updated with the more popular cutlery tray at the top.
“I see you mentioned i-Dos model (WGB256A1AU)
Can the i-Dos model allow me to use different types detergents depending on the type of clothes I am washing? or do I have to pre-load the washer with only one type of detergent and that's it, I'm stuck with that detergent?”
This particular models allows you to store 2 liquid detergents as 1 container allows softener or detergent and the washing machine will still have a manual dispenser.
The machine by default will be manual detergent, when you want to use iDos you just press iDos 1 or iDos 2 to active one or both containers.
“Might pick a Bosch instead
I have found this model: Series 6 French Door Bottom freezer. KFD96AXEAA. I think it is plumbed water connection, which is what I prefer (not fill up a reservoir)
I can't find any higher spec fridge from Bosch. Options seem limited.”
I am face palming as I completely blanked on these because they are so new and it is just not as common in Australia to be able to accommodate a fridge with the height of 1830mm.
You are correct that the KFD96AXEAA is the top model and is plumbed in.
If you have any more questions just let me know as I do actually know a fair bit about these new fridges which is why I am kicking myself haha
@Retailing: Hi @Retailing
Saw your very helpful comments while searching for dishwashers so thought to ask here.
We have a ME fridge and a Bosch series 8 washing machine so can appreciate what you mean by the difference in quality and day to day usability features. Our 12 years old Siemens freestanding dishwasher (it fits as is under our kitchen benchtop) needs replacing and we wanted to get another Siemens. Siemens
no longer sells any freestanding models here and Winning appliances has only one underbench model (IQ500 with no zeolith ) . So now i am also considering the German made Bosch Series 8 or series 6 (as supposedly that is the comparable model to IQ500).
Any advice before we decide?
@Taita: Hi Taita,
Your research is correct, Siemens is semi-exclusive with the 2 largest stockist being Winning Appliances and E&S Trading and very limited independents able to sell this brand.
The B/S/H dishwasher factory in Germany is shared with their brands of Bosch Series 6 & 8, Siemens, NEFF and Gaggenau.
With the range available now, it often makes more sense to go with a Bosch dishwasher from a feature/value point of view. It makes sense given each brand has a different focus and demographic they are marketing towards.
The Siemens IQ500 SN45HS01CA, is closer in-line to a Built-Under Series 6 Bosch.
The appeal for some consumers would be the long jet system in the middle basket that runs on the right hand side and naturally Siemens provides a 5 Year Warranty instead of 2 Years and commonly it is sold with a kitchen package as Siemens runs promotions from time to time with a minimum spend of $10K+ for example.
I will note that I personally do not care for warranties. My experience with brands like Bosch is they come to the party anyway at this price point within 5 Years. So I don't push this as a factor but if someone is looking at an AEG or select SMEG dishwashers for example and they insist on comparing warranties then I would rather sell them Siemens as the B/S/H dishwasher platform is very consistent in quality and performance.
As for recommendations,
If you wanted to stick with Freestanding then the top option in Bosch is the Series 8 SMS8EDI01A.
The key things to note would be the drying system is Auto-Door opening and just be mindful that the cutlery tray as it is different. It is a wire rack design and the right side can slide across. This is tray/rack is great for the odd shaped items that often get thrown in the middle basket like ladles, spatulas, lids etc. but it does mean you would usually be keeping the cutlery basket in the bottom rack.
If you go with Built-Under, the best option is Bosch Series 8 SMU8ZCS01A.
This is a newer release model, it has the "normal" style cutlery tray at the top with height adjustability on each side and has the Zeolith drying system.
@Retailing: Thanks @Retailing.
I will look for a good price on the SMU8ZCS01A and if not, then go for the freestanding model. (I am told the old Siemens variocutlery tray may even fit the Bosch SMS8EDI01A lol so won't dispose of it for now just in case)
@Taita: No worries,
As expected, Appliances Online is the cheapest at 19% off ( $1,859 ) for the SMU8ZCS01A which has the added value of free delivery to metro areas.
They offer installation/removal for $210 which is not that dissimilar to other retailers.
@Retailing: interesting… saw an ikea KALLBODA integrated model that seems to be german Bosch made and has "mineral heating element" for <$1300
https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/kallboda-integrated-dishwasher-…
https://www.ikea.com/au/en/manuals/kallboda-integrated-dishw…
@Taita: That is correct, B/S/H and other companies like the Electrolux group continue to make older generation or down spec appliances for IKEA, as IKEA makes cheap furniture not appliances.
So in your example, the plus is the Zeolith drying system and for those who have a taller dishwasher space can fit this taller model.
Certain wash cycles/features are not there and it has a simplified interior.
Can't really complain for the price though.
I've got a semi integrated tall tub, which makes replacement difficult due to limited choices. I had a 15 year old Bosch Series 6 without auto door opening, which developed a leak (couldn't figure out where it was coming from). I had been very happy with this washer, without issues until the leak developed.
I replaced it with a series 8 with auto door opening (no zeolith model was available for semi integrated tall tub) SBI8EDS01ACD.
Generally happy with it. It doesn't have the cutlery rack, but the old rack does fit it. Having the buttons on the top lip of the door is a bit of a PITA as you have to open it to program it. Otherwise no issues with the wash performance.
It does auto resume if there's a power cut.
The app is pretty good. It also shows power use / estimated water use.
However I've been very disappointed with the drying performance, despite the auto opening door. Any cups / bowls with divots at the base have a pool of water. Plastics are similar wet at the top. I've cranked up rinse aid to 6 (max), enabled extra dry and auto opening, used hotter Super 60 cycles, and it's still not as good as the previous 15 yr old Series 6 when you take them out when it just finishes (I never had to enable extra dry on the series 6). You kinda have to wait a whole day for the water to evaporate off.
If anyone has any suggestions, please chime in. It is like everything needs to be shaken at the end of the cycle, and it would significantly improve the drying. Or they have changed the rack slightly, which positions things more flat, so that there's more pooling of water on top of items.
I note there's now a new model SBI8ECS01A which has the buttons on the front again, and cutlery rack, but no obvious difference in drying.
I used to have a top of line Miele that supposed to have better drying capabilities hot air and desiccants etc. However, there's still puddles of water on the bottom of cups regardless. I've a Series 6 now, I just open the door and pull the mid and bottom drawers out when it's done. Flip the cups to rid of water pool. The next morning it's all dry. I use tabs, I suppose there's some rinse aid in it?
We have a Bosch Series 6 and we're very happy with it
3 years strong
Series 8 Bosch, auto open door
Damn, what's the retail on one of those?
Where is the 2 leg option?
I had 15 years out of my first Miele DW, and currently on nine years on my second.
Build quality is not as good and the main rack is full of rust. Replacement cost for a rack is eye-watering.
Had no idea something like this existed.
Had used plastidip in the past (for a car badge) but reading its use case, that’s a fit for purpose brilliant, cost effective option.
I don’t need it, but great find!
Thanks!🙏
Both are German engineered machines. Like Mercedes or BMW. I have an old model Bosch it still goes good after 20 years.