Resolved :)
Long story short, i was comparing apples to a goat
Car Loan on PHEV - Are My Calculations Correct?
Koipanda on 14/06/2025 - 11:25
Last edited 16/06/2025 - 11:10 by 1 other user
Last edited 16/06/2025 - 11:10 by 1 other user
Comments
You haven't factored the biggest cost: Depreciation.
Everything depreciates. I wouldn't get a new car if I was worried about that.
New cars (the one you're considering) depreciate faster (i.e. more) than older cars (your existing one).
If you want to compare apples with apples you need to consider how much the two alternatives differ.
In fact if you were doing a fair comparison you would compare the entirety of your two options. The first option includes:- the resale value of your current car now
- minus the initial cost to buy the new car you're considering
- plus the resale value of the new car in say 5 years (or however long you expect to hold the car)
- plus maintenance costs over the holding period
- plus insurance over the holding period
- plus electricity costs over the holding period
- plus interest over the holding period
- less any tax benefits over the holding period (novated lease?)
The second option (keeping your current car) includes:
- the resale value in 5 years (or however long you expect to hold the new car)
- plus maintenance costs over the holding period
- plus insurance over the holding period
- plus petrol costs over the holding period
- plus any interest over the holding period (if you don't own it outright yet)
- less any tax benefits over the holding period (novated lease?)
Note you don't even need to factor the purchase price of your current car in the comparison because that's a sunk cost and is irrelevant.
Old cars get to a point where they stop depreciating and actually start going up in value. What you save on depreciation far outweighs the extra running costs.
Plus you can park it any where and drive however you want without a care in the world. It's so liberating owing an old shitbox car.
Old cars get to a point where they stop depreciating and actually start going up in value.
Some go up in value. Most just drop to a low point until the cost of repairs outweighs the resudual value.
For a car to go up in value it needs to have some desirable aspect to petrol heads and its usually the cars that new drivers really wanted to drive but couldn't afford.
Each car model and brand has a different depreciation value and depreciation is indeed a direct cost!
You just dont pay it until you sell the car.In fact Depreciation is your HIGHEST SINGLE COST!
Unfortunately you cant determine it until you sell the car…unless your car has been around for 5-10 years.
But for any PHEV, being relatively new, its going to be difficult to determine.One thing for sure..
Chinese cars have the highest depreciation - especially in what we are seeing with MGs!Insurance can also be a very high cost and should be taken into account.
Your Lexus RX 450h+ should have better resale value than other cars
But whats the point of this excerise?
Hardly anyone goes to so much detail when buying a car.
And the numbers will no doubt change or turn out to be wrong anywayYou pick your car for whatever personal reasons you have and then do the best deal.
If you are comparing with your current car, then that means you are looking for a new car.
I dont know anyone that does such a comparison.
Your old car is either still running well and is worth keeping or its becoming unreliable or looking old and time to change.Even if you don't have a good estimate of the depreciation rate, because it's a new model or make of car, you can get an idea about how much it will cost by using comparable cars to find a reasonable range. At $100k to buy the car, the depreciation will be significant.
Your old car is either still running well and is worth keeping or its becoming unreliable or looking old and time to change.
Or it's running fine and looks good for its age and you may just be getting suckered in to keep up with all the Joneses in your life who've suddenly all got brand new expensive EVs to show off and you want to show off too. At least you should know how much it's going to cost you to keep up with the Joneses, by doing a fair costing comparison. The results may change your mind. Perhaps you can instead be the first Jones in your circle of friends/family to get some other shiny show off widget for less than the extra cost of the new car.
The electric only distance would do my weekly commute (about 48km)
So 5 days, 250km?
Current car annual petrol cost: $75pw (around $1.52 L)
So, about 50l/week.
I don't think you're making an accurate comparison unless your current car only gets 20l/100km?
Total cost of the PHEV= $6,431.52
Sure, if you ignore the $100k Capex cost
7 days about 330km sounds about right.
Sorry just remembered I fill up on half tank, so $75pw on half tank.
I'm fine with the actual car cost.
$75pw
- around $1.52 L (based on your numbers)
= Around 50l
How are you only getting ~15l/100km in an IS250?
i don't get your numbers though.
You've calculated fuel costs you $x and electricity for similar range would cost you $y
The difference between X and Y is your comparison between elec vs petrol justification.The dropping $100k + an additional 20k in interest because you need a car loan for a depreciating asset seems like it should be a seperate justification.
Oh that's true. Idk what I was thinking
- around $1.52 L (based on your numbers)
I know something just went over my head because my petrol costs the same per litre whether I fill up from empty, 1/4, 1/2 or even 3/4.
Current car petrol cost: $75pw
Which car? How many km pw?
So it is a toyoto. 330km/50L($75).
I have no other question!
It is for a VAG car in the same segment: 1000km (petrol) 1500km(diesel).
Took 52 minutes for a VAG reference. You're getting too slow at this now
If you doing novated lease just be aware for a PHEV the electricity costs are difficult to claim pre-tax, whereas the fuel cost are no problem.
Plus can no longer get the FBT exemption for PHEVs, so NL is unlikely to be of huge benefit unless on quite a high income.
People needs to understand how FBT is calculated. The FBT is basically ballpark 47% of the value provided, and cancels out whatever perceived savings.
On top of that, interest rate is expensive.
Oh well.
That's not an accurate our correct statement. FBT is a more complicated calculation than that and there are two different methods. If you want to make a simple representation, basically replace your income tax rate with something closer to about 20%. The tax impact varies and you can work it out online.
NL is unlikely to be of huge benefit unless on quite a high income.
If you're buying a car on loan anyway it will be better to NL it.
Obviously cheaper to not buy a car on loan at all, or put in on the mortgage etc.
Spend $24k a year to save $2k on fuel, seems like a solid proposition.
You also get warm fuzzies.
The warm fuzzy feeling when you realise your weekly budget isn't as affected by people in the Middle East fighting over whose God is better.
Mental gymnastics to justify spending six figures and interest on a high depreciation Ev vehicle that they think is pretty
ideally you would switch to an energy plan which makes it more beneficial to charge over night, e.g. agl, ovo, powershop. these are around $0.05c - $0.08c p/kw
PHEV is Lexus RX 450h+
I look forward to offering you $30k for this in 3 years when you're 120k in the hole
…. I dont agree with OPs proposition or numbers, but Lexus hold their value exceptionally well.
(Edit - in comparative terms. Depreciation is a lot on any car )
Something about penny wise and pound foolish.
Get an SL Camry Hybrid. Almost as nice as a Lexus and just under half the price. Additional fuel use from the hybrid would be marginal and easily be paid for in the savings from the purchase price.
So you figured out the scam.
You think novated leasing is a tax benefit. It is to deprive you of the money and the ATO chases the car dealer / manufacturer / loans company for tax on their profits. The whole system is built to make you live pay cheque to pay cheque to maximise the tax take and make sure you never are truly financially independent because when you have discretion to spend (therefore to pay taxes or not) that is when the government is in trouble.
Did you even read the post? Where does anyone say anything about novated leasing?
It is the same pretend deal from the feds. Point is that it isn't a deal. Not by a long shot.
In your view is a novated lease also a scam for EV for a high income earner? Throw in the interest saved from keeping the cash offsetting the mortgage. Oh and free registration for 3 years.
If you need to ask that question that obviously you haven't spreadsheeted every scenario.
Let me ask you this.
You could commit to a novated lease and use pretax income to pay for the lease. Say pretax $10k. You save $4.5k plus medicare levy etc. So you in theory spend $10k to save $4.5k in tax rather than having $5.5k in cash. What happens if things go pear shaped in life? Is the $5.5k going to save you or the car.
The government wants you to be full committed and every last cent in the system to collect more taxes.
Isn't there an article how 38% of Australia has less than $1k in savings. https://www.9news.com.au/national/millions-of-australians-li…
Already living the scenario.
You can charge the car much cheaper if you are on an EV plan. Like $0.08 per kWh between 12am to 6am with AGL.
Can you plug other things into the EV outlet to take advantage of those incredulous and below-cost electricity prices?
Yes, the rates apply to the entire house, not just a specific plug or connection. Can be used for charging batteries, running washing machines, and electric heaters etc.
So I don't even need an EV to get on these plans?
They’re just trying to flatten the load curve.
Everyone get's home from work and all plug in their EV's at ~6pm which is peak demand.
By shifting EV charging (and other flexible loads) to off-peak hours like midnight to 6am, it allows coal and gas plants to operate more efficiently. They work best with a consistent, steady load - the flatter the load curve, the better.
think so. DRTL