130 Year Life Savings Insurance Plan

A friend of a friend … asked moi to evaluate the Golden Life Savings Insurance Plan II (1121NWLA6) from China because their relative was considering taking it out. An added bonus is if they take it out, it will reduce their aged care fee by X each month.

I'm meant to be a past expert in financial matters and so was asked to read the policy and advertising/example document and give feedback. I said no, doing this is majoring in the minor things. There are more important considerations that out weight the marketing fluff.

Initial thoughts/queries:

  • Purchase price US$250k over 5 years, paid to a Chinese insurer. Assuming everything is fair dinkum, and I have no understanding of Chinese (financial) laws, etc, if this business goes bust, from the Evergrande experience, foreign investors will be “hung out to dry", that is, local investors are prioritised.
  • This is a 130 year endowment policy with options to change the policy owner. Western companies moved away from these products decades ago due to capital requirements to back the product, etc. How can this company obtain the capital, are there regulators equivalent to APRA in China, and how stringent are they? The company is majority owned by the Ministry of Finance - will unsold land/properties be used to back this product, etc.? And who invests for up to a 130 year term, why not 1000, etc.? How do you value the options (are they throwing it in frivolously?)?
  • The potential buyer's children are in Australia - what is their ability to take out any money from China?

Does anyone have any experience with these products and/or do you have any feedback?

Comments

  • +3

    Isn't there a ozbargain China

    • -3

      澳大利亚没有与中国达成交易

  • Try asking DeepSeek this same question.

  • +2

    There appears to be lots of red flags (pun intended) and uncertainty.
    What is the marginal benefit of this policy versus alternative local products?
    Your friend of a friend would need to weigh the perceived additional benefit versus the additional risk.

    Another question to consider "assuming they do not live for another 130 years, do their children/grandchildren even want this product? if they don't will they be able to cash it out or sell it and for what return?"

  • +1

    Friend of friend's relative? sure why not. Just make sure they keep you posted in 130 years.

  • +1

    I know very little about these products but I reckon you'd be better off putting it into some sort of trust account and investing it in a share market index fund. That would certainly be a lot less risky.

  • What is the company?

    • Wedgetail Partners Pty Ltd

    • +1

      Phoenix Vanishing Capital Ltd.

  • +1

    Yes, we are all well versed in Chinese related matters here. Great place to post.

    • +3
  • +4

    I guarantee I'll pay you $100 million in 100 years. Just give me $100k now.

    Deal?

    • Not really that attractive, only around 11% return pa. Super funds return around the same or better, can you guarantee $200m or something better?

  • +1

    Stick to Nigerian offerings.

  • Find a Chinese accountant in Sydney. There's plenty around that manage funds between China and Australia and will be able to give you loads more advice.

    I only know a little bit about these, but they're like a trust fund. The 130 years doesn't mean much, that just puts a cap on how long it can be rolled forward for if it's not paid out. I'd be more worried about who they're giving their $250k to (are they paying it directly to China Taiping or to some shady insurance salesman who gets a commission and might take off with it all? There's usually no fixed requirement on funds to put in), then worry about how well it actually works as an investment. These things have all kinds of bonus terms, bonus benefits, but at the end of the day they tend to have a guaranteed return of stuff all.

    It's a product targeted at people who want to really control how the funds go to their kids, because the trust fund can hand it all over, dish it out in one big lump sum, force it to stay invested, etc. Takes control away for the beneficiaries. I also don't know anything about wills in China, so maybe there's a legal benefit to that. There might be tax benefits as well to a structure like this - again, find a Chinese accountant.

    Also matters if this is just part of their money or all of it. AFAIK these investments have pretty average returns, but if they just want to squirrel away some extra cash in a safe way it's not the worst idea. If it's all their funds and they're worried how their kids will get it in 30 years, maybe not the best idea.

  • Seeing as the current state of China has only existed 76 years, I'm quite skeptical 100+ year old contracts will be honoured in the future. Any contract backed by property is dubious seeing as leases on land only last 70 years in China. Plus, you have to keep money in China. Rich people in China are busy moving their money out.

  • In no way would this be a good investment.

    • The big giveaway is that most Chinese are trying to get their money out of the country, not back in.

  • Dumplings with that?

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