Complaint about an offensive ad to a government body?

rohanp16 on 14/03/2013 - 22:59

Good evening,

I have seen this ad recently and find this ad quite offensive, especially the 'Not in India or the Philippines'. It's a Southern Phone ad, here is the video

http://vimeo.com/58080942

I can completely understand,

a) Marketing the fact that there are real humans answering over those automated voices, and that the phones are answered by,

b) Australians locally.

I don't see why they have to explicitly state that line and I feel it's quite offensive. They can very well push the fact that it's answered by human beings as opposed to automated machines and these customer service reps are local.

I've never done this before, but which is the most relevant government body where I can lodge a complaint ?

Thank you !

General Discussion

Comments

      • [Deactivated] on 15/03/2013 - 13:31
        +1

        Vodafone Hutchison Australia has today announced 750 new customer service jobs in Hobart, thanks to a $4 million investment by the Gillard Government.

        http://www.pm.gov.au/press-office/gillard-government-invests…

        Without the support of the government (why? not even an Australian company) the jobs would have gone overseas.

        • _Bruce_ on 15/03/2013 - 13:57

          Automotive companies are far worse. Also filming. There are lots of cases of such deals and I don't know how to fix the problem.

          At least it isn't as bad when they are setting up rather than giving companies money because they have ran out.

        • Magnate on 15/03/2013 - 21:04

          But would they actually go overseas, or are they bluffing? Who can ever know.

        • Duff5000 on 17/03/2013 - 00:00

          It is a really really bad idea to lose your heavy manufacturing industries. It have a huge flow on to all the supply businesses across the country.

          Also say WW3 breaks out, how do we go about making anything when all our manufacturing is done in asia? We wouldn't have the skills or machinery to defend ourselves.

        • _Bruce_ on 17/03/2013 - 10:03

          It is a really really bad idea to lose your heavy manufacturing industries. It have a huge flow on to all the supply businesses across the country.

          I agree, but giving a blank cheque is also bad. It is a hard problem.

          Also say WW3 breaks out, how do we go about making anything when all our manufacturing is done in asia? We wouldn't have the skills or machinery to defend ourselves.

          I'm afraid that ship has already sailed. Even the US which has a policy on being able to make everything locally really can't do this any more. It would take a decade for them to fix this.

          For Australia however, we are always going to be relying on another nation, you think we will be fighting WW3 by ourselves? Good luck.

        • SupeNintendoChalmers on 19/03/2013 - 13:22
          +1

          In war, projection is everything. Australia doesn't need a large army. All it needs is a very advanced Navy and Air Force with the former having covert nuclear capability.

    • kwaker on 15/03/2013 - 14:00

      probably because of the bad media in relation to the poor service and also that they closed crazy johns

  • Moots on 15/03/2013 - 13:27
    +2

    I agree,

    Nothing wrong with this ad.

  • Eivad on 15/03/2013 - 13:30
    +18

    OP, I understand your complaint. The rest of the ad is fine, and I'm all for promoting Australian call centres, but when they single out call centres from specific foreign countries and associate a tone of negativity with those countries, it is understandable to feel offended.

    Consider an ad for a product, say, baked beans. The ad says, "these baked beans are made in Australia" (perfectly fine). But when someone comes on screen and says, "Really? You mean they're not made in [country A] or [country B]?". This second line adds a connotation of negativity that associates itself with the baked beans of countries A and B - leaving people from those countries feeling that beans made in their own countries are of poor quality. Unless these certain people have some intrinsic link to the products made in their country (eg if they own a baked beans company in that country), they probably won't feel personally offended.

    But here, the 'product' is actually an employee, i.e. a person, who provides a customer service. So consider this example. A retail company advertises, "our employees are all Australian!". Then, someone says, "Really? You mean they're not from [country A] or [country B]?" This implies that employees from country A or country B are potentially:

    • distateful
    • not enjoyable to deal with
    • annoying
    • other negative connotations

    People from countries A and B, especially those who themselves work in retail but also a large proportion of others, would probably feel personally offended here.

    The situation here is not as grievous as the second scenario listed. Yet, simply by mentioning the countries India and Phillipines, some sort of negative connotation is created. Whether this be that people (specifically, customer service reps) from those countries are annoying to deal with, etc. will depend on the individual respondent. Regardless, there is some negative connotation implied from the ad, which when singling out two specific countries, could be construed to fall under the definition of racism under our Racial Discrimination Act.

    Basically, I think you have a right to complain, and I hope the Ad Standards Board has competent enough lawyers to review it. Just my two cents.

    • rohanp16 on 15/03/2013 - 13:46

      Thanks for the elaborate and clear comment. Appreciate it.

      I think I should be clearer in my opening posts by saying it was only that particular line. A lesson in writing.

  • voteoften on 15/03/2013 - 13:56
    +2

    I made a complaint about the ad for rags that mentioned "discharge". In the response I had the opportunity to read excerpts of the issues raised by other complainants. It was an interesting process. The company won. I think that ad (the discharge one) is disgusting.

    I really think that they need to move this and "longer lasting loving" ads to later time slots. The current 7 or 730pm time slot does not cut it. Kids watch masterchef and other family shows and get bombarded with crap to ask their parents about.

    I do NOT want to have a discussion with my 10 year old daughter about longer lasting loving until she is mid thirties.

    • kwaker on 15/03/2013 - 14:06

      until she is old enough not to ask :)

    • dealman on 15/03/2013 - 16:11

      I do NOT want to have a discussion with my 10 year old daughter about longer lasting loving until she is mid thirties.

      Me not even then.. ;-)

  • duchy on 15/03/2013 - 14:18
    +1

    Suck it up. There are so many jokes/ads making fun of other nationalities. Chinese and Irish would have to go crazy. :D

  • kwaker on 15/03/2013 - 14:22
    +3

    i have lodged complaints for thngs that most would not consider offensive to them. everyone has their own opinion and are entitled to it, and its not fair to say that just because someone else' opinion differs to yours that they are wrong. If it personally offends the op then its his/her feelings that are being considered as it is aimed at his/her nationality.

    I have put complaints in mainly regarding animal abuse e.g snakes being abused it tv shows ike fear factor - i dont like snakes/rats/cocroaches but you probably wouldnt accept them doing it to a puppy and my I beleive that its not right to torture them just because viewers dont empathasize.

    But one was about an ad from a chemist, most would not have picked up on. The ad flashes through sveral pharmacists which are aways described as 'he' and all except 1 person were male. which i felt is enforcing subliminal sterotyping that only men are pharmacists. I know not everyone is going to agree or find it offensive but everyone can have their own opinion and that should be accepted. Woman are more likely to agree with my complaint and men disagree, but often without realising people will think something is not offensive until they are the ones that it refers too.

    I have also put in complaints for ads that only have woman - which is more than the male ads. Racism is not only committed by one race. Sexism is not only committed by one gender. Equal opportunities for all!

    • Eivad on 15/03/2013 - 16:11
      +5

      I completely agree with all of this, in particular your comment that people often don't realise something is offensive 'until they are the ones that [the ad] refers to'.

      OP, if you personally feel offended by someone else's statement, you have a right to complain and shouldn't feel bad about it even if most people on this forum tell you it's not offensive.

      The test for racist advertising isn't whether the reasonable generic Australian might feel offended or discriminated against, it's whether people in the particular targeted group might feel offended or vilified.

      No one here can make calls like 'stop being oversensitive. Get over it', unless they are also in the particular targeted demographic. Plus, you can't just say, 'if the situation were reversed, I wouldn't be offended - therefore get over it'. You cannot replicate the exact scenario in your mind unless and until you actually experience it, as an Indian or Phillipino, as an ethnic minority, and with the cultural and social values of those ethnicities inside you.

      Even if you are in the targeted demographic, everyone is still entitled to their own opinions. Just because someone else isn't offended doesn't mean you're wrong for taking offence.

      For example, if someone made a joke about women, we men might not think that it could have offended anyone. This may be because it may have been a joke that, if reversed to men, would have been less offensive. Or we, as men, still don't completely understand what might offend a woman (hope no one calls me out on this!). However, the joke will still be discriminatory if it offends a reasonable person in the place of the targeted demographic. It doesn't matter that men don't think it's offensive, if a reasonable woman would, it's sexist!

      I'm getting off topic. OP, if you feel offended, complain to the Advertising Standards Board. If they receive enough complaints, they might investigate the ad.

    • pmupsinep on 15/03/2013 - 18:03

      Pretty sad existence IMO.

    • J6 on 16/03/2013 - 10:43
      -1

      hahahaha omg. i bet you love today/tonight too!

    • china on 16/03/2013 - 18:44
      +2

      The ad flashes through sveral pharmacists which are aways described as 'he' and all except 1 person were male.

      There are more women than men in this a for a medical school: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZV6UGoXq6c
      Is it offensive? How would you make a non-offensive ad?

      Hire actors based on gender/race quotas?

    • grasstown on 24/03/2013 - 21:05

      Your 3rd para. Re pharmacist ad. Spot on

  • The Gent on 15/03/2013 - 15:21
    -1

    I honestly think you're over-reacting and are going to waste government money looking into something which isn't that big of a deal.

    Australians like call centers to be answered by Australians; there is a market for it. If it was saying "Come to Foodland, no Johnny Foreigners work here!" you'd have a case.

    Telling people that your calls are answered within Australia by Australians who can properly speak the language is not racist. Sorry, but get over it; use a service which has Indian operators if you want to - there are plenty around.

    • _Bruce_ on 15/03/2013 - 15:36

      The point is that they are not saying answered by Australians, they are saying who it is NOT answered by and the tone can be interpreted as suggestive.

      Not saying the case is strong enough, but I have no problem with this issue being raised, if only to remind the advertisers not to push it much further.

      • The Gent on 16/03/2013 - 01:54

        They repeat the line ""An Australian answers the phone!?" over and over…

  • fertiliser on 15/03/2013 - 15:40
    +1

    i cant see how stating facts is deemed as racist or offensive

    • dealman on 15/03/2013 - 16:13
      +3

      i cant see how stating facts is deemed as racist or offensive

      You live in a politically correct world my friend

      Some are more "offendable" than others. Esp the minorities,

  • andyken on 15/03/2013 - 17:11
    -1

    hmm..bla bla bla…hm…ok, its not racist at all, thats it, case closed. go back to normal life..hunt for more bargain.

  • bargdebarg on 15/03/2013 - 19:10
    +4

    I just love the fact that 80% of most call center staff in Australia have immigrated to Australia. Off shore call centers are quite good most of the time. But, it's nice to keep the jobs in Australia, but this doesn't mean you'll be talking to a dude with an Australian accent!

    • dealman on 15/03/2013 - 19:56
      +2

      Ha ha that's so true,
      Every time I used to call Citylink , they would answer after 15 minutes and guess who it's an Indian origin Australian on the phone ;-)

      • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2013 - 22:55

        It's not a fault of Indian people that aussies don't want to work in call centers or drive taxis for that matter. maybe a bit too precious.

  • Bernhard on 15/03/2013 - 19:12
    +1

    Man up, princess. Lodge a complaint to your parents, because if they're not to blame for your entitlement issues I'm not sure who is.

  • ChemicalMan on 15/03/2013 - 19:37
    -1

    Fact: Most call centers are in India or the Philippines. The lady simply stated a fact. If you find this fact offensive then you are an idiot. So what if the majority of call centers are in India/Philippines, most clothes are made in China, oil comes from the middle east and diamonds from Africa. These are simply facts…. learn to learn.

    Would you find the following offensive. Our iron is mined from Canada! So is does not come from Australia or South Africa? That is correct it comes from Canada.
    Damn that offensive factual statement I am going to write to a random Government authority, after posting this on an online forum!

    • Eivad on 15/03/2013 - 20:12
      +8

      It's clear OP agrees with the fact, but he's stating that he finds the negative racial connotation associated with singling out India and the Phillipines and putting them next to a negative connotation offensive. Albeit it is not a strong connotation - the ad did not expressly say 'Really? They're not from India and Phillipines? Thank god, I can't stand those guys!!', but this is implied nonetheless.

      Your comparison is not a true representation. Your statement that 'our iron is mined from Canada' has no negative connotation. There's nothing implied in your statement saying that Canadian iron is shit quality.

      And even if there was, it still wouldnt be a fair comparison. Saying Canadian iron is shit wouldn't offend most Canadians (unless they really believe their iron is good), only a few iron producers/miners. Here, it's not about iron, it's about customer service, i.e. the product in question is people. Negative connotations associated with dealing with a person from a particular race, even if most Australians agree with the statement, can understandably create an offended reaction in those of that race.

      I'm not saying that this ad is necessarily a big deal and is a major display of racism. But please learn to show some empathy, instead of flaming someone who has expressed their thoughts on this forum. Everyone has a right to lodge a complaint to the Advertising Board if they feel offended, even if you don't feel the same way - it's a free country.

    • kwaker on 15/03/2013 - 20:40
      +6

      people are not 'idiots' because they have a differing oinion to yours.

  • voteoften on 15/03/2013 - 21:38
    +1

    Apparently there is some company that has a contract with Australian women prisons to provide call centre services. The prisoners only deal with non financial matters (no credit cards, etc).

    They get $2 an hour and receive training. Doing something in the big house gives them a bit of self confidence I guess and keeps money here in oz. I think that the company that runs it bills them out at $9 an hour, but you have to imagine there would be all sorts of expenses.

  • bargainjargon on 15/03/2013 - 22:17
    +3

    I've had issues with both local call centres and foreign call centres. And I've had good experiences with both local call centres and foreign call centres. Any time I make a call, I don't listen to their accent and think "aw heck, this dude isn't gonna be able to help me." I give them a chance each time and I try not to unload my crap on them since they're just there to do a job. And it doesn't really matter to me where they're from as long as they can fix my problem.

    As for the OP being offended, let him be offended. We haven't lived the life that he's lived, who are we to say he shouldn't be offended? Not necessarily saying whether he's in the right or whatever but he's gonna feel what he's gonna feel. What can we do?

    Have a nice weekend, live long and prosper, grab some good bargains… all that good stuff :)

    • kwaker on 15/03/2013 - 23:50

      the only issues i have had with australian call centres is when they belong to the government.

      anyway i agree with what you have said i always let the person help first, the service might not be as good but they are alot more in need of keeping their job. More often than not they will give free credit to my account to resolve your anger at them.

      love your attitude bargainjargon :)

  • Finde on 15/03/2013 - 22:32
    +2

    Well I really like the ad. They should be able to advertise it. I would much prefer to use a company which uses Australian call centers. I feel it is just advertising another feature of their product.

  • onlyletters on 16/03/2013 - 00:03
    -1

    Not racist at all. I think the only people who would find it racist are those that have a heavy accent which people don't especially like talking to..

    • Finde on 19/03/2013 - 20:02
      +1

      Well I like your comment!m

  • klyvenator on 16/03/2013 - 01:39
    +5

    It's easy to brush off political correctness when you're not part of the minority group. Most of you here are white caucasian men and have no say whether the OP is being "too sensitive" or that this ad isn't offensive to anyone.

    I'd say this ad isn't intentionally racist but it is politically incorrect.

    • china on 16/03/2013 - 18:35
      +2

      Most of you here are white caucasian men and have no say

      So because of the colour of our skin and gender, we do not have a say?

      Interesting…

      Can't wait till you call us "you people".

      • klyvenator on 18/03/2013 - 14:43

        Would you tell a pregnant woman how to give birth or that she's not entitled to be in pain during the process? Same situation here. You don't belong to that ethnic group, you're not entitled to speak for them or dictate what they feel.

        Also you sound offended. It's funny how when the roles are reversed people are so quick to jump ship.

        • voteoften on 19/03/2013 - 00:35

          I don't think that one, non-elected member of ANY ethnic group is "entitled" to speak for "them".

          Does one white man speak for all white men?

    • Finde on 19/03/2013 - 20:03
      +1

      I always forget racism only goes one way!

  • PresidentClinton on 16/03/2013 - 09:57
    -1

    There are weird racial undertones that you wouldn't hear elsewhere…"Pick up the phone and you won't talk to a Mexican" -USA or "Pick up the phone and you won't talk to a Paki"- UK. It's not racist - more culturally insensitive. Probably flies in regional Australia, not metro areas.

  • chakkz on 16/03/2013 - 16:30

    Talk to an Australian when you call Us and that's their Message in their Ad …

    Wow , This company really putting all the faith in the Fact you will speak to Australian

    1) What about their Services Coverage .. Nothing Mentioned in the Ad .. Cos it is like Crap ..
    I live in Northern Tassie .. Southern Phone is with Optus Network by the way Optus is a Singapore Company.
    And it has no Coverage at all …

    2) What about their plans? - They are very average - Compared to other similar phone companies

    3) Will the Call centers be in Aus permanently.. even After the company is grown big ?
    Eg. Optus when came to Aus had all the Call centers in Aus .. But when the Company grew .. Call centers was outsourced to India

    If someone is going to Southern phone just to talk with an Australian … Good Luck … !

  • china on 16/03/2013 - 18:25
    +2

    Where can our country register a complain?
    We are damn sick of Aussie ads making fun of cheap Chinese crap.

    I bet you wouldn't be pissed if they said "Our call centres are 100% Aussie, you won't get some toothless gunslinging redneck from 'merica answering your phone"

    If they refused to hire based on the country you were born, than that is discrimination.
    Not hiring you because you can't speak well in a job where speaking is kinda important, is not only fine but essential.

    Edit:
    I wouldn't care about: "Our call centers are 100% 'merican, in a language that is your favorite; not English or Australian."

    In fact I'd be sharing the video for laughs.

  • SydBargainer on 16/03/2013 - 20:43
    +1

    This ad is hardly offensive. It's a regional Australian phone company. The white anglo population are in the majority in regional Australia and this company is advertising to their target market. Tolerance of non white anglo cultures is limited in regional Australia in my experience.

  • bunk on 16/03/2013 - 22:46
    -1

    Oh…another "first world problem", lol we are debating about the fairness of a single statement from an Ad.

    • No ONE on 17/03/2013 - 02:55

      Say it Kashmir problem. India is very sentistive about Kashmir issues… lmao

    • klyvenator on 18/03/2013 - 14:49

      It's funny how it's more acceptable to complain about a late package on Ozbargain rather than to complain about racial prejudice.

      • bunk on 18/03/2013 - 16:15
        +2

        IMO, there are way bigger issues in this world to complain about a late ozbargain package or an ad that makes a reference to call centres in India.

        I am also part of a minority group, was not born here, but absolutely love the opportunities that this country has provided. Sure there will be some racial prejudice as we live in a predominately white nation but to complain about something that is borderline-just stating the truth….. If this is such a worry for the OP, then good luck to him, he will need to be prepared to get a lot more offended in life. IMO worry less, enjoy life more!

        • Macgyver on 19/03/2013 - 21:11

          Its acceptable to complain about racial prejudice when its happening. When you pick things out all the time people start to notice your just a attention seeking person thats always acts like a victim.

  • grasstown on 17/03/2013 - 00:20

    I agree with op. I think its offensive. Can't quite put my finger on it but I'll try…

    Indian call centers are disliked.

    The ad reinforces Negative associations towards people in India and Indians.

    The ad allows viewers to mutter "Indians", expressing dislike towards them. .

    And when that happens, that's racism!

    • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 17/03/2013 - 14:15
      +1

      Summed it up perfectly. Though small, it breeds intolerance.

      • Tal_Shiar on 19/03/2013 - 03:07

        i didnt really find it offensive by the use of words spoken, but the actions. It's like thier looking around to see if its okay to say "really", and im a "white caucasian"

  • Roman Sandstorm on 17/03/2013 - 03:42
    +14

    Interesting thread. Of course, there are the requisite "get over it", and 6:30 pm TV show responses that any challenging subject tends to receive. But it's also heartening to see a number of posters show understanding for the original poster, even if they do not agree with him.

    To me this ad is clearly tapping in to preconceived prejudices. It appeals to the perception (whether that is correct or not) held by many people that those who do not speak perfectly enunciated and articulated ABC (or Neighbours?) English, also somehow provide inferior customer service based solely upon their particular accent. Like many common (mis)conceptions, it is unlikely there is any actual evidence that overseas call centres and their staff, provide inferior service to locally-based and staffed ones. Rather, appeals to individual anecdote-based experiences simply reinforce our existing often misguided beliefs.

    Yes, yes, yes, we have all most likely had some negative experiences with offshore call centres. And these experiences stick in our heads when we associate them with a difficult or unfamiliar accent. It is probably equally likely however that we have all had just as many bad experiences with 'dinky-di Aussie' staff, from genuine Aussie call centres.

    Indeed, it is the manipulation of our perceptions through advertisements like this one, through repeated anecdotes of friends and family, through negative reports on trash current affairs programs, that help create the widely-held ideas that foreign call centres are evil sweat shops, populated with nasty uncaring little brown people, who solely wish to take away the jobs of decent Australians.

    This ad, inhabited solely with middle-aged white Anglos, would have been offensive in the 1970's let alone the 2010's. It's offensive because of its connotations, and its associations. It creates an association of 'machines' firstly, and then ties this to India and Philippines. It suggests that a call answered by 'Australians' (and regional ones at that) is superior to a call answered by non-Australians, in particular the demons they create: Indians and Filipinos. The ad appeals to warm and self-righteous prejudices of so-called Australian superiority, and the inferiority of foreigners.

    Ask yourselves a question: would this ad be acceptable if 'India' and 'Philippines' was substituted by 'women' and 'gays'? Obviously not. So why would it be acceptable to denigrate other nationalities (and countries) without evidence?

    Ads like these do not happen in a vacuum. They are not accidental. They both feed off, and at the same time create, the Zeitgeist. It is totally intentional of the advertiser and the production company to target and denigrate other ethnicities and to slur the ethics and capabilities of other countries. They clearly believe that appealing to such prejudices will gain them more sales. And sadly, they are quite possibly correct. After all, did we not have a federal government which once used similar tactics to help win an election campaign? Oh yes, those terrible little brown people (who are most likely all terrorists anyway), are quite happy to chuck their own children in the water.

    Racism is more complex, and often more subtle than just off-colour jokes about Irish or Chinese. This ad certainly highlights that subtlety, and many of the responses here expose the often unconscious racism which can easily pervade society.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2013 - 01:12

      Great analysis

  • sonu1111 on 17/03/2013 - 10:04

    Saying glass is half full or half empty, means the same but has different tone. I agree that there is a difference in handling complains by Indians or Philippines and Aussies but it is true as well, that not all Australian customer care people can resolve problem properly. I had issues with Dick-Smith Click and Collect service and I did a complaint to them. When I got a call from them, all they asked is whether I got my product at the price what was quoted while placing the order or not, He didn't bother to ask what exactly was my problem, staff was refusing to honor the price when I went to collect my order and it is on their website that price will be reserved for 24 hrs.

    What matters is, who can resolve your problem.

    Take Vodafone, They have majority of their call centres in India and soon they are migrating a major part of it to Australia. They might found a decline in service and hence losing customers but they didn't explicitly said, No More [Country A] or [Country B] call centres. What they are saying is we will have Call Centres in Australia and calls will be answered by Australians.

  • exc3113nce on 17/03/2013 - 11:34

    Finally watched the ad after reading through this thread.

    The tone in which the lady states, "Not Indian" and the manner in which the questions are asked would seem to appear condescending. I have no problems if people classify most call agencies to be Indian - but it's the fact that their main point of sale is being "Not from India" meaning that they class their service above that of India's.

    • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2013 - 12:36

      As do most people. Call centres are pushed to India because they are cheap, not because they have good service. Compare NPS results between Australian staff and Indian staff, there is a massive difference in user experience.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2013 - 12:32
    +3

    Offensive to advertise your call centre is in Australia? That's like saying that an Australian made sticker is bigotry. This post has to be a troll.

  • 2ndeffort on 17/03/2013 - 12:57
    +1

    I think it is a long bow to draw to call racism on the advert. Aside from the cultural and language issues with foreign call centre workers, there are lots of people here in Australia that might look more favorably on a company that provides jobs here for Australian citizens rather than outsourcing to a cheaper option overseas. The current 457 visa hype highlights this.

    I am a Scottish immigrant, came here in the 70's as a boy, Australian citizen since the 80's. I dont write to the Government every time there is an advert joking that all Scots are tight @rses (although clearly my presence here on OZB supports that stereotype!!) or making fun of people wearing kilts or making fun of a Scottish accent etc.

    How many people on here would think I was justified in complaining against the current advert on the TV showing a Scottish man falling over when his dog jumps on him, his kilt flies up showing his privates. It is an advert for an opticians and the catchline is that 'some things in life we dont need to see'. Would I be right to complain that I was offended that my ancestor's national dress was being ridiculed to sell some glasses? Or would I be being a bit precious?

    • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 17/03/2013 - 14:25
      +4

      I don't think the population of Australia see an issue with Scottish immigrants. I don't remember ever seeing that issue on the news.
      The Australian population does see an issue with Indians/non-white immigrants.

      Think about it in your day to day life. If someone you like makes fun of you, you joke along with it and give it back to them. If someone who critisizes you, slanders your name, background etc makes fun of you, you want to knock their block off..

      See how there's a difference between your experiences and 'others'? Sure you may feel they are the same but how often have you been on the receiving end of negative press/aggressive racial slurs?

      • 2ndeffort on 17/03/2013 - 16:36
        +3

        I dont understand how advertising that they dont use call centres located in any country necessarily constitutes a racial slur. There are valid reasons quite aside from any racial overtones why customers may prefer a local call centre:

        Perhaps customers feel more comfortable talking to local people that speak the same dialect/accent and use the same slang/colloquialisms.

        Perhaps customers prefer dealing with companies that offer jobs to Australians

        Perhaps people like the idea of talking to somebody local that understands local issues

        Perhaps people don't like the idea that foreign workers are being exploited for comparatively smaller salaries and see using their call centre staff as being complicit in supporting what they consider an unethical business practice.

        Perhaps people have ethical/political or personal issues with either India or the Phillipines far beyond any of the bigotry assumed in most of the above posts.

        • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 17/03/2013 - 17:09
          +3

          When someone/friends/family tell me about their call centre experience and 80% of the time they overly mimic the call centre reps accent and/or make a racist remark, I begin to get the impression that the issue isn't the service provided.

        • uncool on 17/03/2013 - 19:50
          +1

          The fact is majority of large Australian companies outsource to India or the Philippines. it doesn't make sense for them to use Scotland would they.

          I'm pretty sure if they do outsource to Scotland, they will mimic the Scottish accent.

        • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 17/03/2013 - 20:06
          +1

          That is true but there is a difference. A Scot isn't on the receiving end of the current immigration policy debate… (though they too are an immigrant) They would not feel as attacked and mocked as a non-white immigrant.

          If there was an anti-immigration protest and a non-white Australian citizen walked past in the attire of their cultural background they would be asking for it. If a Scot walked past who had overstayed their tourist visa and was therefore illegally residing in the country, they would go unnoticed. (I know of cases where this [the Scot] has happened).

          I provide this as an example of the effect of people's racist perceptions.

        • uncool on 17/03/2013 - 20:52

          Are you saying this never have happen to an Indian ever? Australians you people are racist!
          or maybe when it happens to them they try to be inconspicuous.

          How come I don't see Filipinos joining in and causing a big fuss here?

        • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 17/03/2013 - 21:14

          To be honest, I have no idea what you're talking about.. I think you either misinterpreted my comment or need to explain yourself better.

        • uncool on 17/03/2013 - 21:56

          you are saying if a Scots overstayed their tourist visa they would go unnoticed, and this will never happen to Indians right?

          as for the second part, I probably should make a separate comment, my bad, I was just wondering why the Filipinos not commenting on this post and be offended by the ad.

        • kwaker on 17/03/2013 - 22:33

          i have hired both filo and indian and in my experience filos are more easy going, maybe thats why they dont complain here, and also the fact you have no idea what anyones nationality is here since you can't see them. arguing and attacking people like saying "Australians you people are racist!" makes people hate you. in fact you are being a racist by stereotyping and saying that and encourging prejudice against you. just because you see an australian being racist doesnt make all australians racist so thats offensive.

        • voteoften on 17/03/2013 - 23:17
          +4

          ummmmmmmm…………………

          "Australians you people are racist"

          Talk about stereotyping and racism. Take a look in the mirror.

        • uncool on 17/03/2013 - 23:21

          sorry, it was sarcasm actually. It was a response to Roozy's comment:

          "I don't think the population of Australia see an issue with Scottish immigrants. I don't remember ever seeing that issue on the news.
          The Australian population does see an issue with Indians/non-white immigrants."

          which implies Australian in general are Racist to non-white.

        • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 18/03/2013 - 00:38
          +1

          Uncool, I was pointing that out as a concerning issue. Not excusing it in some way or to lead in for an equally racist comment. If you reread my comment I'm implying that it isn't right that a white immigrant is overlooked when the immigration debate is brought up purely as he doesn't fit the immigrant stereotype.

          Unfortunately some people don't realise that their comments have racist undertones and refuse to be called out on the matter. They would rather dismiss the accusation as the ramblings of a sensitive, whingey so and so.. That's all nationalities

        • phokati on 20/03/2013 - 02:46

          I dont think the AD was intended to be this way. But is sure does come out as racist to me.

          The way the old women expressed it when she delivered the dialogue was full of hatred for some reason.

          I think she was more disgusted about call centre in other countries like india or phillipines than she being happy about call centre being in aus.

          She could have expressed like AHA…!!! Local people easier.

          She was Like No Shit .. Finally No more shitty call centre..

          something like that..

    • grasstown on 17/03/2013 - 14:52
      +2

      I agree with roozy
      You can't look at this ad in a vacuum. You have to look at it in the time and context it is being delivered.
      The offensiveness of this ad differs depending on which race is used. Substituting a different race would also require looking at the ad in the context of that nationality and Australia. It reinforces racist views

  • Macgyver on 17/03/2013 - 13:56
    +3

    Some people are either too precious or have too much time on there hands.

  • kangaroo on 17/03/2013 - 16:49
    +1

    Interesting to note this company is owned by Local Councils….

    From their website.

    "Who owns Southern Phone?
    Southern Phone is an unlisted Public Company (A.C.N. 100 901 184) and only local councils can be shareholders. This means all profits are returned to the community through the councils. Because it is a local government-owned enterprise, Southern Phone is a State/Territory Body (STB) pursuant to Section 24AM of the ITAA 1936. No individuals may own shares in the Company.

    Benefits are channeled to the community by the maintenance of low cost services and the delivery of all dividends to shareholding councils on behalf of their communities."

    • kwaker on 17/03/2013 - 21:31
      +1

      this company often puts junk mail in my letterbox but there service is never competitive. The only help it gives to council is help to give themselves a pay raise.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2013 - 22:44
    +2

    To those who feel the OP is over-sensitive:

    You have to be from a minority ethnic background to FEEL why this fellow was offended.

    Having said that, being an Australian Citizen with a middle-eastern background, I have to admit Australia is really less racist than what world thinks it is.

  • Autonomic on 18/03/2013 - 00:10

    Not blatantly racist but definitely seems like some dog-whistle level stuff

  • petey on 18/03/2013 - 09:13
    +1

    Probably because most Indian's on the phone don't really give a shit. They're hard to talk to, and barely listen, and are extremely pushy with sales. How many times have I had to call Telstra to get a bill fixed? I might be the unluckiest person alive and only had these Indians to deal with, or maybe I'm not…

    I think the OP is over-sensitive. There's no hate towards a race, it's just that Australian's want to speak with someone in this country (doesn't matter what race), it keeps jobs here, and it's comforting that someone in this country understands what's going on besides the call (or matter at hand)…

    Then again it really doesn't matter anymore because prisoners are now getting paid $2 an hour to take calls. haha I wish I was joking. Why have laws and minimum wages? http://www.news.com.au/national-news/convict-call-centre-let…

    I guess you're all missing the point when it comes to racial issues, this is about companies profits. They don't really care how they service you, they'll do it in the cheapest form possible. But then again a lot of your furniture and clothes may be made in China, so what do you care. This has been going on for quite some time… Maybe we should think about off-shoring the Prime Minister… oh wait!

    • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 18/03/2013 - 11:52
      +1

      That's BS. I work for a company that has an australian call centre and the amount of people that complain about the 'Indian/Phillipino/ethnic' call centre reps is disgusting. It really grinds my gears that they think I would somehow relate to their xenophobic feelings.
      They don't care about giving jobs to locals. It isn't as patriotic as that. They care about giving the jobs to someone that isn't 'ethnic sounding' regardless whether they can understand them (if they pulled their head of out their arse) or not.

      I generally discover these racist customers have called off a mobile and had a bad line or have immediately changed to a negative attitude as soon as they hear a slight accent. My own colleagues are guilty of this and I feel really sorry for the reps we deal with, that have staff in their own company hang up on them the moment they hear their accent. The sad thing is these call centre reps get complaints from these racist colleagues but they're actually really good at their job.

    • Roman Sandstorm on 18/03/2013 - 19:52
      +1

      Petey:
      "Probably because most Indian's on the phone don't really give a shit. They're hard to talk to, and barely listen, and are extremely pushy with sales."

      "I think the OP is over-sensitive. There's no hate towards a race"

      Seriously???? Are you just trolling here? No, no hatred towards a race from you. No racism to see here. Move along please.

  • Roman Sandstorm on 18/03/2013 - 20:17
    +2

    This whole episode is a terrific example of a concept known as 'confirmation bias'. This occurs when we (humans, that is) create a causal link in our mind between events which may or may not be related. But we experience an event which confirms our previous opinion or view, and do not pay attention to other (disconfirming or contradictory) events, or indeed events which are basically unrelated.

    In the case at hand here, most of us at some time have had negative experiences with call centres. Hell, the reason we call customer service in the first place is that something is wrong! And, as is the nature of the universe, not everything can be fixed to everyone's perfect satisfaction immediately. So, we are already negatively inclined towards call centres anyway. And, as is the case with many of the bigger companies, in telecoms particularly, they utilise offshore call centres. (Whether this is right or wrong is another issue altogether.)

    Uncommon, or difficult accents stick in our heads, and so we automatically make the 'association': "I'm getting bad service from this person with an Indian accent. Oh, I got bad service once before from someone with an accent like that. Therefore, all Indians provide bad service." And the next time we hear an Indian accept we are expecting bad service before the conversation even gets going. And unless things are resolved 100% in our favour we will again associate Indian = bad service, even if the service had been perfectly adequate and equal to what a Paul Hogan-accent true-blue Aussie may have given. <Sarc intended. And we all know how wonderful 'Australians' are at providing customer service.>

    These biases are often hard to overcome. I'd suggest it should however be something we learn on the way to becoming responsible citizens and adults. (Obviously not everyone learns this, given by the number of "get over it, precious" comments in this thread.)

    To me the most offensive thing about the ad which sparked this discussion is not the actual racist content in itself, but rather the gross appeal to prevalent racist prejudices. When coupled with the chauvinistic, nationalistic assertion that 'Australians' are somehow intrinsically better (than nasty furriners) it makes this a particularly vile little 30 seconds.

    • phokati on 20/03/2013 - 02:49

      Very well explained , but these concept affects individual. However AD's will be affecting a lot of people and what they think.

  • Krizy on 19/03/2013 - 00:04

    Stereotypes are an effective communication tool when you are given a short amount of time to get your message across.

    So what stereotype did we see here? While the harmful, racial stereotype of the Indian call centre worker is reinforced, they didn't actually use anyone but white Australians in the ad. The only way that it could possibly not be racist, is if the real offensive stereotype is that of an endearingly racist old woman in a racism tolerant community of white Australians.

    So, the old woman's racism may actually be ironic. She's so blatantly racist, that it makes the whole ad seem a bit ridiculous, and actually rather funny. Unfortunately, I don't think this ad was even ironic. Racism is too widely accepted in Australia for this to be a cheek-in-tongue attack on racism. No one in a racist country would view this ironically. Even if were ironic, the problem with using this particular stereotype is that it is a negative stereotype. Not all old women from communities dominated by white Australians are ignorant and racist.

    Using a stereotype can associate your brand with that stereotype. The actors in your ad can be the face of your brand. Did they use a working mum? No. Sporting hero? No. IT geek? Nope, not offensive enough. Did they even use an Indian call centre worker as their stereotype? No. They used some bogan bitch. They've simultaneously offended white Australians by stereotyping us as racist, and fronted an image that they are a racist company. Why not use a positive stereotype next time?

    Silly company.

    So yeah, the ad that the OP linked to is pretty offensive. To white people.

    • Tal_Shiar on 19/03/2013 - 03:16

      Stereotypes are an effective communication tool when you are given a short amount of time to get your message across.

      your argument sunk like the titanic after your premise

  • earlsaint42 on 19/03/2013 - 08:05
    +1

    The Ad Standards Board (ASB) has ruled that it’s not racist to criticise foreign call centres in advertisements that promote onshore services: the white actor can even throw in an exaggerated eye roll.
    The ASB received a complaint for Choosi insurance that featured a woman rolling her eyes during a reference to non-”Aussie” call centres.
    In the offending segment, a woman praises the virtues of Choosi’s call centre before pausing, rolling her eyes and adding it’s “Aussie too”.
    The complainant argued that the ‘Aussie’ remark utilised a racist stereotype that call centers are filled with foreigners and implicitly implies that Choosi excludes certain prospective employees on the basis of their race.
    “[This] creates a subtext that a call centre that is not staffed by ‘Aussies’ would somehow provide a less rewarding/understanding experience for the customer,” the complaint claimed.
    The ASB dismissed the complaint with the following statement:
    “We acknowledge that the advertisement includes the statement that has been complained about. However, we disagree with the complainant’s view that this is a racist remark that contravenes the AANA Code of Ethics (the Code) either directly or by implication.

    • _Bruce_ on 19/03/2013 - 08:30

      Good for reference, but as the OP has stated, this goes a step further to point out what is 'bad' rather than just claim 'Aussie' is 'good'.

  • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 19/03/2013 - 08:52
    -1

    I'm really not looking forward to the day when Vodafone bring their call centre back to Australia. Whenever I get transferred to Aussie based Vodafone call centre reps they can do nothing for me and aren't interested in keeping my business. A quick call back to an Indian rep and I'm treated with care and even if they can't resolve my issue, they're lovely to me and try everything in their power to address my issues. I for one will call late at night when I assume the call centre to answer will be offshore.

    Australians aren't known for their customer service and when one receives bad service from an australian rep they never seem to criticise the australian rep based on their nationality so why blame the ethnic?

    Most Aussie reps will make your life difficult if you're rude to them. The ethnics just take the abuse and go out of their way to resolve the issue.

    • Tal_Shiar on 19/03/2013 - 13:20
      +2

      Just so you know using ethnic like you just did = offensive, as is your generalisation about "Australian" customer service

      • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 19/03/2013 - 20:16
        +2

        I fail to see how describing one as ethnic in this clearly divided debate is racist.

        Australian call centre and ethnic call centre… Was the ad not about 'Indian and Phillipino' call centre staff both or which are ethnic or were you watching a different ad?

        At no time did I single out a nationality and your assumption that Australian = white is racist. I'm talking about all Australians not white Australia. I despise even having to explain that as it suggests an acceptable way to describe the segregation within Australian society.

        There have been recent reports on Australian retail customer service and customer satisfaction and it's poor… Tell me more of how Australia is the leading nation in customer service…….

        Neg away but think about the comments first before muddying up the debate with useless comments.

        • Tal_Shiar on 19/03/2013 - 20:20
          +2

          Justify your ignorance however you like, i don't expect one brief comment to open your eyes to your shortcomings

        • ChmpgneTasteBeerBdgt on 19/03/2013 - 20:42

          No worries, enlighten me and all reading how using the word 'ethnic' to describe the offshore call centre is racist. Sure I could've called them foreign or offshore but I chose ethnic. Tell me the difference. I'd really like to learn :)

          Also explain the generalisation of Australian customer service when referring to the whole of the Australian community.

        • Macgyver on 19/03/2013 - 21:37
          +1

          Didn't you know only white people can be offensive and racist?

  • rohanp16 on 19/03/2013 - 09:47

    Thank you all for your responses, especially those who were able to actually understand the point I was trying to make, rather than call names or make personality assumptions that don't add to the discussion. Agreeing or disagreeing with the point is secondary, but the key, primarily, is to understand what one is saying.

    Surprisingly, many people seemed to think the issue mentioned here was that 'Australian call centres' shouldn't be promoted (for whatever reason that fancies you - be it 'accent issues', 'quality of service' and/or 'keeping jobs here' etc). Far from it. The issue was with the way that message was put across by explicitly undermining other overseas countries, not by generalization, but by individually naming countries. The issue also, is not whether 'my' country was or wasn't named. The issue, essentially, is naming countries out in a negative light to promote one's own qualities, be it based on actual research data or a current snapshot of a society's sentiment.

    Anyways, I did lodge a complaint with the ASB on Friday once someone posted a link. They got back to me promptly this week, which was very impressive I must say !

    They had already considered the ad before when someone felt that "Southern Phone presents and promotes 'Aussies' and/or 'regional Australians' as people of Anglo / Caucasian appearance and who speak with what Southern Phone considers an acceptable Australian accent.". I am attaching the URL here for anyone who wants to read that case.

    http://122.99.94.111/Cases/0006-11.pdf

    They had dismissed that complaint then and even though I felt that the issue I mentioned was different from the one mentioned above, they reassured me today that they assess each case against the full provisions of the Codes and not just the issues raised in the original complaint.

    For anyone who doesn't wish to read the whole case, the paragraph pertaining to the issue I raised is pasted below,

    "The Board noted that in the advertisement an actor questions whether someone from India or the Philippines will answer the phone, with the response given that it will be someone in Australia. Some members of the Board considered that this reference to oversees [sic] countries could be interpreted as a negative comment about people from countries other than Australia, or about non-Anglo Australians. The majority of the Board considered, however, that the overarching message is that Southern Phone uses staff based in Australia and therefore provides staff who understand local issues. The majority of the Board considered that the advertisement did not discriminate against people on account of race or ethnicity."

    • PresidentClinton on 19/03/2013 - 19:22
      +1

      The majority of the board were white anglo saxon Australians and were not staff who understood the non-local issue.

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