MyKi is a Ripoff

BeefBiryani on 13/08/2013 - 12:58
Last edited 15/08/2013 - 13:28

Wonder if anyone else has noticed this or not. I live in a zone 2 area and usually purchase 28 day pass for 186 dollars but I also keep some money 10/20$ on the card as well, just in case. Well just recently I noticed my MyKi money balance was around 8 dolalrs which shouldn't be because I was on the last day of my 28 day pass. I knew it because I write down when I purchase the pass and when I activate it and when it is supposed to expire. Well this was weird and I thought I might have made a mistake so I recharged my card again for 28 days on 9th of August at 6PM which should expire on 6th of September at 6PM but it does not. It expires on 6th of September alright BUT at 3AM. That is right. They calculate the expiry date correctly but the time is always 3AM so technically they are not at fault but in practice we are losing one day.

I have made an online complaint to PTV but so far have not heard from them. Anybody else noticed this or is it just me? What do you suggest I should do? I believe I have been ripped off since the day I started using MyKi (more than a year now). Can I get all that money back from MyKi?

EDIT: I emailed PTV regarding this matter and this is the response I got:

Upon investigation of your account, we have found that you were charged a 2 hour, zone 1 and 2 fare of $5.92 on 09/08/2013 at 09:30.

As your 28 Day, Zone 1 and 2 myki pass was activated on the same day, a reimbursement for $5.92 has been requested onto your myki, card.

Wonder why couldn't they do it automatically. Surely a system worth $2 billion should be smart enough. Or do they intend to squeeze that money out of our pockets just like that? This should be a discussion topic in the election debates as well.

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Comments

  • chillipaste on 13/08/2013 - 13:21

    I have nothing to add except that I am not surprised. myki is simply a ripoff.

  • Shadowsfury on 13/08/2013 - 13:55
    +16

    No unfortunately you are the one making the mistake (I think - someone else can correct me if I'm wrong)

    You recharged on 9 August (ignore the time, myki doesn't work like that for day passes).

    Therefore day 1 is 9 August.

    Day 28 is 5 September so this should be the last day that your pass is valid. However, as a bonus, and to ensure it is valid until all services for the day are over, it will expire at 3AM the following day, being 6 September.

    Hope that makes sense.

    EDIT: How come you only purchase it in the evening? Assuming you travel to the city in the morning and back in the evening, you'd be better off making your pass valid the whole day (i.e. from when you touch on in the morning) rather than paying for a full day pass day but only using it in the evening.

    • Shibuya on 13/08/2013 - 14:21

      No, you are correct Shadowsfury.
      I normally recharge and touch on in the morning to make day 1 a full day. If you touch on in the evening, Myki counts that as a full day regardless of the time that you touched on.
      But yes Myki is a horrible system

      • aj3000 on 15/08/2013 - 10:20
        +4

        Instead of recharging for 28 days, it is better to recharge for 33 days so that you can start on a Monday and finish it by a Friday, assuming you don't use Myki on weekends. Adjust accordingly for public holidays and annual leaves and you can save a fortune ;-)

  • [Deactivated] on 13/08/2013 - 14:57
    -5

    What's horrible about it? Other cities would give their eye teeth for something as good.

    • Shibuya on 13/08/2013 - 15:48
      +12

      Are kidding me, another city wants something as good? What's good about it?

      What's horrible are the card readers at the gates, dunno about you but sometimes it doesn't read my card, I would have to try multiple times and sometimes would need to go to another barrier to try again - so forget it if you are in a hurry. Same goes with the top up machines, how long does it need to update the MYKI card?

      Then there is the web top up…. it requires 24hours to add credit to the card but will charge the card at the point of purchase.

      Bring back the old paper tickets… nothing wrong with them.

      • zelda707 on 13/08/2013 - 21:42
        +4

        the go card in Brisbane sounds better than the MYKI card :) The credit tops up immediately and the card reads every time

        • Conka on 15/08/2013 - 13:20

          I haven't used Myki, thankfully.

          <rant>
          Brisbane's Go card sucks.

          I am sick of their crappy systems not working all the time, and then stealing money from me because of some system issue. The systems on all the buses do not always work the same way. Some beep when you swipe, some don't.

          People need a consistent user experience. Not some random garbage.

          Go card does not top up immediately if you want to do it over the internet - it can take up to 24 hours. I want to know why I can purchase something from the UK or Canada immediately using something like Paypal; but cannot do a simple local transaction in real time.

          Ridiculous.
          </rant>

      • Withdr4wn on 16/08/2013 - 13:42

        Definitely not a fan of Myki in any way, shape or form but a smart card system can practically never have real-time top-up via online payments.

        Consider that you have a website not connected to your primary Myki infrastructure (that would be real bad if the website got hacked into, and all of a sudden core ticketing infrastructure was accessible!). Also consider that your smart card stores the balance (verified with a source of truth - Myki's servers eventually). How do you, if you're getting on a bus or tram, move your payment from online to your card in real time without first loading all payment records to the Myki writers (particularly when the systems cannot be guaranteed to always be connected?).

        For the record, you weren't able to purchase cards in real-time over the internet either - they still had to be posted.

        The Payment Card Industry expect an always-on connection (otherwise you don't get your cash), and even with Paywave - there's an element of credit being allowed and business processes to follow up negative balances should the transaction not have been allowed in the first place.

      • francis.tks on 16/08/2013 - 18:01

        Hohoho, come to Sydney and you will cry at how much more we are charged. Day pass? Forget it, it will cost you 20+. But then Sydney is like the worst in Australia, followed by Melbourne.

    • alizzan on 14/08/2013 - 09:52
      +1

      I've been in third world countries with better systems than Myki. You have to be kidding me.

    • fenerli on 15/08/2013 - 15:28
      +2

      WHAT??? I don't think I've seen a worse system in a city.

      Cities with systems that shit over Myki (and Metro/Metlink for that matter):
      Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Singapore, Caracas, Merida, Bogota, Quito, Lima, Istanbul, Izmir, Ankara, Vienna, New Delhi, … these are just some recent ones I've used myself off the top of my head

      Myki is the only system I know that:
      1/ Charges a non refundable fee for the card of $6, let alone being able to refund your credit
      2/ Has no option for temporary use, examples:
      - person on transit for a day or two
      - person returning from overseas just wanting to get home (where their card is safely stored)
      - someone misplacing their card (temporarily or otherwise)
      - someone lending their card
      Note: the technology exists in the form of short term tickets which were used in a myki trial in geelong
      3/ On top of all this, it is also one of the most expensive public transport systems, and for only an average quality network and service. For the record, I have not seen a more expensive one.

      Feel free to correct if any of this changed in the past 2 years.

      • Eg51 on 15/08/2013 - 22:20
        +1

        I think Singapore 's system is pretty good. At least it response in one touch.

        Sometimes I need to touch several times for the machine to finally read my card. In Singapore , I can even put my card in the wallet to touch on. They also have temporary card you can get for one dollar and its refundable upon return of the card.

  • Eg51 on 13/08/2013 - 22:03

    It's a silly system,that's why I have two cards.one for pass one for money.

    The tram stop I get on in the morning have no machine for me to add value to my card. I have to touch on using myki money.if I put pass on that day before going home and touch on,I end up paying a daily pass and a one way ticket that i have paid in the morning. With online reload,staff in flinders street told me it takes 24-48 hours to show up in the card.so I can never tell when the pass is there if I pay online.

    • shinichiduy on 15/08/2013 - 17:16

      From the OP post, if the pass is activated on the same date but AFTER you touch on with myki money, the myki money will be refunded provided that you touch on within the same zone as your pass and you contact them

      • Eg51 on 15/08/2013 - 22:25

        Means I need to spend time to contact them every time this happen? I spent extra six dollars to save myself from the hassle. If the card is smart enough as they advertised, it would know I have a two hours pass that I have touched on in the morning.

        The myki card is smart enough to convert my ticket into daily ticket when I touch on my card twice in a day, I don't see why can't they programme it better to link between myki money and myki pass.

        • shinichiduy on 16/08/2013 - 15:55

          Yeah, contact them is an extra hassle. I hate that as well but eventually I get used to it LOL

  • cooldude123 on 14/08/2013 - 00:10

    It was the same with Metcard. I don't really see the complaint here.

  • p1 ama on 14/08/2013 - 07:56
    -2

    I don't see what's so bad about Myki, sure it can be better, but ever since monthly metcards, commuters have been charged that way, 3AM the day past the 28th day. That's not a Myki issue.

    Regardless of issues with Myki, there are heaps of benefits over metcards, topping up is faster than buying a metcard and you can top up online which helps. Myki does sometimes fail but I've had monthly Metcards that just wouldn't read at the validator gates in the city too.

    One silly thing is that once you have a monthly pass, I don't understand why it is necessary to touch on and touch off. With metcard, I would usually buy a monthly and validate it on my first trip, after that I would only take it out when I needed to get through a boom gate, though I've seen people who validated their monthly every trip, so I don't know which is the right way!

    • ryan-m on 14/08/2013 - 08:03
      +1

      I have a monthly, even half way through the month it required me to have touched on to be able to get out at the other end. Even though I have a zone 1+2, the cover all bases kind. It didn't used to be the case but they have changed the system to incorporate this. Mind bogglingly stupid. Now I need to hold up people behind me and ask the attendant to let me out if I didn't touch on even though my ticket is valid.

  • DrStinge on 14/08/2013 - 09:14
    -1

    If you think Myki is a rip off you've never used public transport in Queensland :)

  • patinadiary on 14/08/2013 - 11:43
    +3

    Things which bug me most is that after spending ~$2 billion.
    - It takes a good 2secs every-time one touches on and off…car park cards have better systems than this. why cant it be recognise a swipe? Isnt it supposed to be a "contact-less" card system.
    - Why does it still take 2 days for the money to register. Banks and bill payments go through faster.
    ….For the record it cost $2.5 billion to design, build and launch the Curiosity Rover to Mars.

    • altomic on 14/08/2013 - 19:31

      was about to post the same stats. bloody laughable. ticket system to travel within melbourne $2bill. actually cost for something to travel to another planet $2.5 bill.

  • retiredfeline on 14/08/2013 - 11:47

    And not to mention visitors who get slugged with the non-refundable cost of a card.

    • Food on 14/08/2013 - 18:15

      I am taking my family to Melbourne later on, and was going to take them on tram until I realised there was NO METCARD ANYMORE.

      I guess the parking mobs will get my $$$…

    • [Deactivated] on 14/08/2013 - 18:34

      Boo hoo. That's me. Give it away or sell it if it's that big a deal. Same applies in London and probably many other places. Irrespective, we found the card to be a money saver and huge convenience. Sydney's been waiting for something similar for donkeys years.

      • retiredfeline on 14/08/2013 - 18:46

        Sure, like a visitor has time to hawk a used card on leaving. Actually because the card can be registered, there will always be some suspicion that the recipient will be tracked.

        I wouldn't mind so much if VIC allowed charities to receive the value of donated cards, then charities could set up donations boxes at airports, etc.

        And HK isn't one of those "many other places". I got my card cost and stored value refunded, minus a reasonable service charge, at the airport. And the Octopus card is useful not just for HK transport, for example you can buy fast food with it.

        • DrStinge on 14/08/2013 - 20:50

          Although it costs our interstate visitors money it makes us good cash from overseas tourists.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/08/2013 - 22:41

          Well there you go. HK has cheap food and goodies too. One of the big advantages of huge populations and cheap labour is often better public transport and better deals. Any downsides to living in those places compared to here?

        • Macgyver on 14/08/2013 - 23:04

          Yeah shit pay, high house prices, low availability and tons of people living under a roof.

          Over population is never really a good thing.

        • retiredfeline on 14/08/2013 - 23:30

          Who said anything about living in HK? I'm just pointing out the incompetence of building stored value ticketing systems in cities here to judge on the experiences of Melbourne and Brisbane. That has nothing to do with population and everything to do with planners. Or do you think transport planners in crowded cities are smarter? The most recent rort was commuters discovering that they could travel to Brisbane airport on a throwaway $10 card instead of paying $16.

          Perhaps it's just as well Sydney waited to learn from their mistakes. Maybe that will help. Or maybe not.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2013 - 14:25

          And I was simply pointing out the logistics - a large populus in a confined area means authorities can and will spend more on ticketing systems which offer better value to commuters. I often chuckle at comments from people discussing prices of goods in the USA or elsewhere compared to Australia when it's clear that volume/population plays a huge part. And no, I'm not talking about music, software or anything which requires minimal "manufacturing", shopfronts or delivery. There are some major advantages, and disadvantages, to large high density populations.

        • retiredfeline on 15/08/2013 - 14:44

          My post was not about pricing either. Myki prices are about the same as public transport in developed countries. It's about marketing decisions made that leave a bad taste with visitors. It was a VIC decision not to vend single use tickets onboard. I don't think anybody has questioned if this results in significant savings, not having a vending machine onboard. Result: Visitors have to hunt down a sales outlet, usually by asking around for the nearest 7/11. Great way to get to talk to the locals.

          And nobody has questioned if it really costs that much to have a refund booth or a refund automat at Southern Cross, the Airport and perhaps a few other strategic locations. The staff at Southern Cross had lots of time to dispense advice and supply other help as far as I could see.

          No, all these things and others, including allowing visitors to donate their Myki card to charity could be done. But VIC is happy to keep the incidental revenue. $6 for a smart card. Nice profit there for a card with a chip inside.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2013 - 19:52

          Got any evidence of the bad taste left with visitors? We've visited many places with restrictions on cards for all sorts of things. If we think they're over the top we make alternative arrangements. We were happy to pay for the Myki card for a 2.5 day stay recently. Everywhere you go you have to do your homework in regards to how tickets work and where to purchase them. If you can't do that, forget about travel.

        • retiredfeline on 16/08/2013 - 09:21

          Complaints on travel forums, and also bad taste left with me for one day stay. You're just backtracking more and more from your misunderstanding about what I mean, and now you're down to if you don't like it don't go. There aren't really any alternatives except to drive or walk. I mailed in a complaint, got a form reply from some bureaucrat and wrote it off as inept marketing and general grab for the consumer dollar via running public infrastructure. Lots of cities do better and "but they live in rabbit hutches there" is a pathetic argument against doing better.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/08/2013 - 11:30
          -1

          What a load of cobblers. If you don't understand the difference large populations make to public transport systems and costs and efficiencies then you have a lot of learning to do. Myki might have some teething problems but yours is at the bottom of any list. I sympathise though because you must be extremely poor if getting a refund on your ticket is such a huge issue.

        • retiredfeline on 16/08/2013 - 11:43

          You're back to your original argument. It's not about population, it's all about poor design. What's so hard about selling single use tickets? It's a high margin item. It's also not about the $6, it's about the creeping trend to monetise public infrastructure.

          Let's see you've used all these arguments:

          But they live in rabbit hutches. (What has this to do with system design?)
          It costs more because we have lower population density. (I didn't complain about the price.)
          If you don't like there don't go. (I have to like everything about a place and I'm not allowed to voice any suggestions for improvement? Is VIC that thin-skinned?)
          You must be poor. (I didn't complain about the price.)

          The only argument you haven't used yet, to your credit is, if you don't like it here, why don't you leave the country.

        • SteveOh on 16/08/2013 - 15:55

          The US (I immigrated from there) actually has a much lower population density than Australia.Yes a larger population for greater economies of scale for manufactured goods consumption etc but a lower population density.(Given that Aussies cluster around cities whilst Yanks spread out over endless suburbs.)

          With a few exceptions like NYC and Boston the Yanks don't do public transport. They put their money into automobile infrastructure. It's very expensive but they have lower labour and materials costs for a whole range of reasons. They also used to get away with a lot of inefficency because they were the only industrial man left standing after WWII.

        • one man clan on 16/08/2013 - 16:14

          Seriously. The population of Sydney is 4.6 million. Melbourne has 3.7 million.

          The ONLY city in the US with higher population density is New York. LA has 3.7 million people. Adelaide would be in the top 10 American cities!

        • Calgully on 17/08/2013 - 09:57

          I think you've misinterpreted US city stats.

          Adelaide would actually rank about 50th largest city in the USA.

          The confusion is that in Australia when we talk about population of cities we generally mean the greater metropolitan area whereas in the US they strictly mean the municipal entity. A metropolitan area usually consists of multiple municipal areas.

          Here's a list of USA metropolitan area populations.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistica…

          On this scale, Sydney would be about 11th, Melbourne would be about 15th, Brisbane would be about 25th, Perth 45th, Adelaide 50th

          By the way, your Sydney and Melbourne populations are a bit out. As at the 2011 Census - the population of greater Sydney was 4,391,674 and Melbourne 3,999,982 !!

          http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/census_services/getproduct/…
          http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/census_services/getproduct/…

  • kelvinkwl on 15/08/2013 - 11:06
    +3

    Tell me about it.

    I was using the auto top up service for my Myki which automatically tops up my card when it reaches below $10. I got my wallet stolen couple of months ago, and I was still using my Myki. And because it was below $10 and the credit card was cancelled, they decided to lock my Myki just because they couldn't charge my the auto top up credit.

    So I was at the station trying to top up through the machine, which also said that my card was locked and I couldn't top up. I called the service centre and they couldn't do anything requesting that I send in my card for them to unlock it. What a waste of my time. And in the end I was late to work for almost 3 hours just cause they wasn't any place I could get a new Myki that early in the morning.

    Really a stupid system if you ask me..

    • BeefBiryani on 15/08/2013 - 13:30
      +1

      Really a stupid system if you ask me..

      Well if you asked the people who pocketed those two billion dollars, they'd tell you a whole different story.

  • shinichiduy on 15/08/2013 - 17:25

    Myki was suppose to be a touch and forget ticket, but then they consistently overcharge you. My trip is in zone 1 although the destination is within zone 1 and 2 overlap. They always charge me for zone 2 and 1 and every time I have to ring them up for the refund, the excuse they got is always due to the GPS on the bus. So frustrated.

  • AmericanDad on 15/08/2013 - 19:41

    Hi would you be able to send me a template of your complaint and the email address you sent to?

    I believe the same thing happened to me too! and I live in Zone 1+2 too

    • BeefBiryani on 15/08/2013 - 21:30

      I went to the ptv website (ptv.vic.gov) they have a contact us form. Just select the myki option. Complaint was just what i have put in my original post. They took their time in replying thouh.

  • Dr Techno on 16/08/2013 - 09:10

    Smartest thing about a $2 billion system is probably the original contractors for the project that milked a mint from it.

  • dirtybird on 16/08/2013 - 10:05

    Oyster card in London is excellent.
    Myki just had to copy that.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/08/2013 - 11:33

      I agree, however I can assure you it also has problems of double and overcharging.

  • SteveOh on 16/08/2013 - 15:46

    I've heard that for the 2 billion dollar cost of Myki the government could have simply provided everyone free transport.

    Keep in mind that fares and tolls only cover part of the operating cost of any transport system public or private. So 2 billion as a component of rail fares would probably have lasted for quite a few years. So we're not truely comparing a capital expense against an operating cost.

    Anyway, it would be great if we had a transport users strike. If everyone would simply refuse to pay there wouldn't be enough authorised officers and cops to do anything. This is how Ghandi defeated the British Empire. (Although the British Empire at least left India with some really good infrastructure unlike the crooked state governments here!)

  • spixder on 16/08/2013 - 18:53
    +2

    I live in WA and i drive a car, life is good.

  • Soybeanus on 16/08/2013 - 19:19

    Someone's never tried Smartrider.

    • Gdsamp on 16/08/2013 - 19:46
      -1

      I don't see what's actually wrong with the Smartrider system, I've never had a problem with it.

  • Food on 16/08/2013 - 20:40

    Adelaide's MetroCARD system was only introduced last xmas, but it was a quick hit and no teething problems. It replaces the old MultiTrip tickets (paper tickets with 10 2 hour travel periods on it). It doesn't have a Daily Cap on it though, but it could do with one. We still retain 'paper tickets' for 2 HR and Daily tickets, but to sum it up, we did a pretty good job!

    The only thing which is Cr@p. The Ticket Vending Machines on trains and Trams DOES NOT ACCEPT NOTES!?!?!?

    Our 'Paper Tickets' used to have qutotes on them, but have since been replaced by upgrades (rail electrification, new electric trains blah blah)

    • Frantic on 20/08/2013 - 05:59
      +1

      Have to agree I was in Adelaide recently and rather impressed with their system.

  • netsurfer on 17/08/2013 - 12:13

    With MyKi, for bus services, it is important to check how much you are being charged when you touch off. For me, a lot of time, the MyKi devices do not really know where the bus is physically located at, and can over charge you (zone 1 + zone 2). Might also keep an eye on tram services too, especially those which do go into zone 2 area.

    If you are a zone 1 traveller, you really need to watch out. I have to call PTV at least once at week (more like 3 times a week), because the bus I take regularly has a faulty GPS (when I am in the City, the bus thinks I am in Box Hill), and I get overcharged at least 2 times a week (sometimes 4 times a week).

    The refund takes 24-48 hours normally (sometimes longer), plus you can only enquire about the transactions after you can see the transaction online.

    The system definitely can be improved.

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