Considering swapping over to Samsung from Apple, need some advice.

Recently sold my iPhone 5 to upgrade to the 5S as I do everytime a new iPhone is announced but after giving it some serious thinking and a few let downs from Apple with the 5S I am considering a S4 or Note 2.
I don't really know much about the Android market as I have only had a Galaxy Ace during a week of waiting for the new iPhone to be announced last year.

So if anyone can give me some advice on which is the best Samsung or any other Android device n which is best value. I will be purchasing outright as well as I don't want a 24 month contract.


  • +7 votes

    Sort of depends what you're after. Going straight to the Galaxy Note may be a bit of a shock after coming from an iPhone, so I would definitely try and get a hold of one before buying (put it in your pocket etc).

    Judging from your comment about upgrading for every new iPhone it doesn't sound like cost is an issue, so don't buy a Note 2, as the Note 3 is set to go on sale in a couple of weeks.

    Personally I'd recommend waiting for the Nexus 5 which will likely be announced in the coming weeks. It allows you to get a pure Android experience without any added on junk from the manufacturers. Having said that give the Galaxy S4 a shot too - some people like the feel of TouchWiz (Samsung's Android customisation) and it's a good size.

    • +1 vote

      I bought a nexus 4 after the keynote. I got it for 5 day and decided to refund and buy 5s because a few reasons.

      They are pretty subtle actually, and maybe some will argue that it takes time to adapt.

      1. I find the keyboard extremely hard to use on 1 hand. Call me crazy but when I walk, I usually have 1 hand occupied by either bags or drink so I have only 1 hand to work with. (Maybe I shouldn't use a big screen mobile after all?)

      2. Although everything is extremely extremely smooth – I have no lag whatsoever, I find the scrolling speed/gesture of Android is a bit too fast(?)/unpredictable/hard to control. Also, I find Chrome browsing is annoying as it accidentally register a click when all I try to do is stop the scrolling.

      3. I find the phone heating up with me only chatting on Whatsapp (other apps closed, they are not in the stack) and it happens two or three times.

      4. The battery life! I read a lot about this and I think it's common. The phone eats through battery even in standby mode. I took the phone out on 7:00AM and it dies 7:00PM with bluetooth and wifi off. I work 9-6 so during that time, my interaction with phone is just during lunch.

      I won't argue about camera stuff as I don't use it much.

      So I think it's pretty much subtle combination of hardware and software that make me feel uncomfortable (unfamiliar?).

      Hope this sheds some light.

      • +1 vote

        Regarding the keyboard, I agree the default keyboard isn't great and the iPhone keyboard is far better. However SwiftKey is better that even the iPhone keyboard IMO. Did you try a third party keyboard?

        All the other things (except for scrolling, which is personal preference) are specific to the Nexus 4 which I'm not a huge fan of myself. That's why I mentioned the Nexus 5 which I believe will be much better.

        But at the end of the day it's personal preference - Android works for some and not others. Same goes for iPhone. The important thing is that you're happy with it!

      • +2 votes
        1. Swiftkey is awesome
        2. The scroll speed is based on how fast you swipe your finger down/up. It took a while to get used to but once you do it works pretty well.
        3. Yes it heats up when running some apps, hasn't actually caused problems for me though. Could cause a problem if being used as a GPS on the windscreen in summer though.
        4. The idle battery life problem got fixed with an update, not too long after Australian availability.

        Still I vote for a Nexus 5 though. Better camera, and bigger screen while still keeping the same size body.

      • +1 vote

        you are unfamiliar, and that's fine

        some people adapt/learn faster and some are too lazy to move away from a comfort zone,

        i gave mum two devices, an iphone 3gs and a galaxy tab, in time she mastered both simultaneously with all the basic function she needs.

        when it came to upgrading, she will never go back to iPhone like I predicted, she simply needed a bigger screen (her eyes aren't getting any better), good camera, upgradable memory, and at a budget friendly price, and so the choice was a Note 2. Sure the phone does not appeal to many guys due to a tight fit in their pockets but ladies will have no such limitations.

        you pretty much nailed the battery part correct, but I suspect is due to the weak battery that LG provided, as the Note 2 came with a whooping 3100MaH battery


        huythanhv2 gives his opinion/feedback to help out the op and gets downvoted… Come on guys.

        (Just for context I have a Note 2 and love it.)


    I'd get the Xperia Z1(some Whirlpool users were getting it for $720) if I wasn't waiting for the Nexus 5.


      The recent vodafone misprice for the Z1 was pretty good. 2 years contract for $30 x 24 = $720 including a free SIM. Wish I got on that.

      • +1 vote

        it's virgin, not vodafone


          Damn, so even better with Optus coverage.


          Heh – total opposite for my area


          Optus Coverage in metro Areas=Vodafone Coverage now…as they are paying Voda to use their towers to prop up their struggling 3G network.. yes i know what you will say.. but its true.. Voda gets access to Optus' regional network in exchange so apparently its win win


          Do you have a source for this? The main problem with Vodafone is outer suburbs anyway, are they included in the deal?


          A very good source. Just google Vodafone Optus joint venture.
          Anywhere that has poor or low Vodafone coverage will be propped up by Optus and vice versa

        • +1 vote

          Google gives me this:

          Which says that the deal isn't approved and that vodaphone get 'access to 400 Optus base stations'. Pretty light on details otherwise. 400 doesn't sound like much to me.


          Its been live for 4 months
          and 400 towers not sound like much?
          You would be surprised

          They are also rolling out 175 new towers together as a joint venture.
          Which will bring the two networks regional coverage up to Telstra levels.


          400 not much over all of Australia, Telstra have 7700. Also not clear if they are using the same network hardware or just towers. Also not clear if this includes data, or what frequencies.

          Which will bring the two networks regional coverage up to Telstra levels.

          This is a big claim.

          Not saying this isn't happening, or that it isn't good, but there really isn't any public information I can find to back this up.


      Don't think they honoured that anyway

  • +12 votes

    I also moved from iPhone to Note 2, you simply can not compare the two. I would never return to IOS, it's far too limiting. In fact I view my iPhone as more of a toy phone compared to this. I love the Note 2 but don't see enough major changes to splash out on a Note 3. If I was buying from scratch though… Hmmm probably.

    • -3 votes

      it's far too limiting

      In what way?


        Screen size of course

        • -2 votes

          Except he's referring to iOS

        • +7 votes

          the functionality of iOS, try using the Android OS and you will see what he's talking about.


          I've been using Android for months and I think iOS is far better. Their App Store is much more polished. The playstore is full of crap and confusing if you don't know what you are looking for.

          Android phones generally have weak Wifi reception. I tested Xperia Z and Note 2 and iPhone 5, while the androids had only 1 or two bar, the iPhone got full reception. I can't tell much about HTC ONE but my friend said it is better than samsung and sony.

          Regarding the screen, Note 2 has Low-res display, If you wanna buy a big one like this I think you should wait for the note 3. Normally, Samsung smartphone displays are a bit over saturated, Personally, I prefer the HTC ONE, i also heard that the Xperia Z1 would be great as well. [S4 <Xperia Z< iPhone 5s<HTC ONE ~ Xperia Z1)

          I have lots of problem with my external memory as well [the phone rejects the sdcard on a daily basis, and fried one]. So make sure you find one with heaps of internal memory.

          Occasionally you'll experience some lag with the screen, esp when typing

        • +2 votes

          I've found comparing app stores broadly can be misleading. While the general app areas are well covered by both stores (eg., browsing, email, messaging, music, etc.), it then comes down to the specific needs or areas of use for our devices.

          For example, my dad loves watching TV shows on his tablet. So an iPad was the far better choice because it supports significantly more TV channels and subscription services through apps, while Android is notably lacking.

          Likewise, I needed a video player with some specific playback functions. iTunes had only one app that met my needs, and the specific function was an in-app extra purchase (not stated in the description), so I couldn't even try it out. I stopped looking on Google Play after I had four players with all the features to trial (and all of them were free).


          Yes that maybe true, but you won't find apps like TV portal on the Apple store. Mind you google took it off playstore too after a while, but the apk is easily found and with that app you can stream just about any new show as soon as it hits the net. :-D

        • +6 votes

          Android phones generally have weak Wifi reception. I tested Xperia Z and Note 2 and iPhone 5, while the androids had only 1 or two bar, the iPhone got full reception

          Did you do any actual testing?
          Apple have been known (following the death grip fiasco) to bump up their signal indicators to give a false impression of improved signal.
          They're an indicator only, you need to do performance testing to determine actual signal strength.

        • +1 vote

          try using the Android OS and you will see what he's talking about

          I actually use Android and Windows Phone daily (I have several Android phones and have a HTC HD2); I was specifically wanting to know what mikzter meant when he was saying it; after all, everyone's needs are different. But hey – downvote away!

        • +1 vote

          Speedtest in my area on iphone 5, 4G, Vodafone: 47mbs
          Speedtest in my area on Note 2, 4G Vodafone 39mbs
          Speedtest in my area HTC One 4G, Vodafone 44mbs
          Speedtest in my area Nokia Lumia 925, 4G Vodafone 46mbs
          Speedtest in my area Samunsg S4, 4G, 26mbs

          All done within a about 5 mins of each other, the iphone kept its sim the whole time and was always giving 45-48mbs
          the other phones the sim was moved between them and the results were above.

          We then tried it with Optus 4G and got the following:

          iphone 5: 26mbs
          Note 2: 18mbs
          HTC One: 26mbs
          Lumia 925 17mbs
          Samsung S4: 8mbs…yes 8!!!

          Telstra 4G was as follows:
          iPhone 5: 27mbs
          Note 2: 21mbs
          HTC One: 22mbs
          Lumia 925: 22mbs
          S4: 16mbs

          So i think its safe to say.. The iPHone was giving a much faster speed across the three networks.

        • +2 votes

          Interesting info, but you weren't testing WiFi.. which was the original premise.

          And I'd say the results aren't particularly conclusive (certainly within margin of error) apart from perhaps the results for the S4 which are at least consistently (across 2 tests which isn't particluarly scientific) slower, outside the margin of error.
          I wonder what the effect of having a dedicated APN is too?
          ie if iPhone network speed can consistently be shown to be superior, is it a hardware/design advantage, or is it a network advantage? (ie. iPhone's special APN isn't as oversubscribed as the generic APN that every other phone connects to)

        • -1 vote

          Stupidest comment I've ever read. You sound like a glorified sheep.
          1."The playstore is full of crap and confusing if you don't know what you are looking for."
          Have you ever used the categories or genres to browse apps? The playstore is linked directly to your account and can even be accessed through the internet to push apps to the phone. You say "The playstore is full of crap"…what does even mean? Maybe stop searching for fart apps then.
          2. "Android phones generally have weak Wifi reception"
          Possibly the most generic and typical type of comment of an iSheep. Have you tested every Android phone? The Wifi reception is pretty much the same for most phones

        • +1 vote

          The iLine of products have long had a history of poor WiFi support, the iPad broke general compatibility between two patches in iOS 5 and again in iOS 6. There was a massive thread complaining about it on Apple forums for a good year. I even worried about updating my iPad to iOS 7 for fear it would happen again, luckily it didn't.

          1. "Android phones generally have weak Wifi reception"
            Possibly the most generic and typical type of comment of an iSheep. Have you tested every Android phone? The Wifi reception is pretty much the same for most phones.

          While that comment isn't necessarily correct, you're just as foolish as him for thinking that there is no difference in wifi between phones. Here's a chart from Anandtech showing that there are huge differences between phones in wifi performance:

  • +9 votes

    If you're getting into Android at the moment, there's absolutely no reason to buy anything other than a Nexus 4. $199 for 8GB or $249 for 16GB, it'll last you easily another two years or so before you'll need to upgrade.

    By then, whatever you're upgrading to will rip apart the current top gen phones - i.e. the S4 and HTC One…etc.

    Sure you lose a bit by going Nexus 4 instead of the S4, but they're minor things, 720p instead of 1080p screen (not even noticeable) and the camera quality are the two main things, but in return you get the pure google experience and it's like less than half the price, so go Nexus 4.

    If you don't like Android, at least you didn't blow too much :)

    • +2 votes

      This, but to clarify if a great camera is worth serious money to you then avaoid it.

      Otherwise if you want expandable storage as an added benifit of moving to Android, also avoid the Nexus 4.


      Sure you lose a bit by going Nexus 4 instead of the S4, but they're minor things, 720p instead of 1080p screen (not even noticeable) and the camera quality

      Don't forget 4G, processor speed, sound quality, etc. 4G is particularly important. If you're currently in 4G areas and on a 4G plan I would highly recommend getting a 4G phone. 30-40mbps vs 4-5mbps.

      If you've been willing to fork out your money for an iPhone, then a SG4, HTC One, or the latest Xperia wouldn't hurt your wallet too much.

      • +2 votes

        Don't forget 4G

        4G is only useful where you have reception, and is generally only usefully faster than 3G where 3G is oversubscribed. Also your battery drains faster.

        30-40mbps vs 4-5mbps.

        You need more than 4 on your phone? Sure if you are tethering it is a different story.

        processor speed

        Is pretty damn good on the Nexus 4.

        sound quality

        Which phones are better? I find there isn't much between them, none are exactly great due to the size limitations.

        If you've been willing to fork out your money for an iPhone, then a SG4, HTC One, or the latest Xperia wouldn't hurt your wallet too much.

        This is a false economy. Because you are used to paying so much, doesn't hurt to doing it?

        You are correct that there are reasons to get a more expensive phone, but do these really balance out the hundreds of dollars cash you spend on… anything else.

      • +7 votes

        You have to remember that Android phones depreciate extremely quickly, even more so than things like computer parts.

        That's why my advice with Android phones is that you either go Nexus 4 or you go with something that is last gen. Look at it this way - spend $249 on the Nexus 4 now and then spend $500 on a phone in two years time.

        I assure you, that will be much better than getting a $750 phone now and keeping it for 4 years.

        You don't lose much by going Nexus 4. 4G reception is still pretty sketchy at the moment and it's expensive. Processor speed, the Nexus 4 is right up there, the S4 Pro is a very potent processor. Sound quality, well if that's important for you then, okay, but I've never used the speakers on my phone for anything apart from the ringtone.

      • -5 votes

        nexus 4 supports 4g and the processor is amazing, why would you need faster?


      $199 and $249 - are these US Play Store prices?

    • +1 vote

      If your Nexus 4 if full then it's not worth having saved $150 if you can no longer ad apps to it. If you drop it and it breaks easily (back made of glas) it's not worth saving $150. (My kids keep telling me how many times they have dropped their S2 onto concrete or tiles without it breaking and without a case.) Also it has a non-replaceable battery, so if like me you carry a spare battery around with you, it's not worth saving $150. Otherwise the Nexus 4 sounds great and I am sure I would have bought one. Got a S3 instead from Kogan with 5 year warranty.

      • +2 votes

        1) External storage is hyped up to be more than it is. Do explain how you can fill up more than 16GB of storage. If you watch movies just get USB OTG cable and a 32GB flash drive.

        2) I've never dropped my phone since I got it like a few months ago. So just be careful :)

        3) User replaceable battery is always good, I'll give you that.

        1. Your points are valid but you have to remember that saving $150 is a big deal like we're taking about 33% of the cost of a top tier phone. Also I think you got scammed with the extended warranty there :P
    • +1 vote

      with the extra money saved, you could buy other things to enjoy, like a tablet or a PS 4


      Last November, before Christmas, I was going to get a Nexus 4 for myself as a Christmas gift, through a friend from California. Unfortunately, it was sold out and there was no way I could get my hands on a Nexus 4 for another good 3-4 months.

      So, in search for something similar in terms of price range and specification (or even its availability, you'll know why later), I found Xiaomi Mi2 and go another friend to get it directly in China. Even then, Xiaomi Mi2 was sold out in its first release, as well as the second release. My friend was lucky enough to get it on the third release just before Christmas! I considered myself lucky, and have never regretted not having a Nexus 4. If you do some comparison, spec-wise, its pretty much the same (minus the NFC).

      What's better now is that the newest Xiaomi phone (Mi3) is selling for the same price as Mi2 when it was introduced! In this regard, I certainly would like to observe how the Nexus 5 will be priced.

  • +2 votes

    wait for the nexus 5 (in about a month or so) to come out and you'll probably have a decent amount of pocket change left over to buy something else.

  • +5 votes

    Get the Nexus 5 if you can wait a month or so. That's what I'm doing myself. :)


    Just get Note2

  • +1 vote

    a few let downs from Apple with the 5S

    What let downs?

  • +6 votes

    I think the most important factor when picking a phone isn't what other people recommend, it's what do you need and want it for?

    What aren't you happy about with the new iPhone? Because that should be your starting point.

    When it comes to high end phones there are only really 5 options in my opinion;

    iPhone 5S
    Galaxy S4 4G
    Galaxy Note 3
    HTC One
    Lumina 1020

    Lumina 1020 (last place)
    While the Lumina's camera is meant to be amazing, it doesn't cut the mustard thanks to it taking so long to take photos which really takes away from the amazing sensor.

    Galaxy Note 3 (4th place)
    Awesome mini tablet…. If your a woman who carries her phone in her handbag but if you want to stick in it your pants/jeans pocket then the size of this is absurd.

    iPhone 5S (tied second)

    It's an iPhone 5 with a better processor and a fingerprint scanner, iOS is very popular and easy to use and it gets everyone locked in with the App Store. One of the great things about the iPhones is that they hold their value better than any other phone, it is seriously impressive.

    HTC One (tied second)

    Great phone in every way, fast, decent camera, good battery but can't quite pull ahead enough to negate the depreciation vs the iPhone.

    Galaxy S4 (first place)

    It's big but not too big, it's powerful, has expandable memory, amazing camera. It is the overall best phone on the market at the moment. Not to mention you can slap in a cheap wireless charging card and simply drop your phone on the mat instead of worrying about buying 500,000 lightning cables.

    That's my view on the current top smartphones but what you should do is figure out why you were underwhelmed by the 5S and work out what features you really wanted and chase that phone.


      Thanks heaps for your reply this really helped!

    • +4 votes

      I would say, spec for spec. That the LG G2 is a better phone than the S4. (it is newer, afterall)

      • +1 vote

        Agreed. The G2 is a beast and dat thin bezel.

        If the Nexus 5 was based off that… holy shit.


          I'm not so sure, this review although written with a clear samsung bias is very scathing.

        • +2 votes

          "Probably the worst review for this phone so far, every other website praises this phone and says it's the best phone out right now, you are obviously an apple or samsung fanboy. People check out other reviews before you listen to this bozo"

          That's from one of the comments in the article.

          That's my first thought as well. I've read other articles. This phone gets a lot of praises. It's blazing fast, high spec and looks great. Software is also very good.

          But then again, that review is from Gizmodo. One of the crappiest tech websites out there. If you want something legit, check out anandtech for full comprehensive reviews. They're probably the best out there… period.

          "Overall LG's G2 is surprisingly good. It's built on a great platform, with great battery life and includes a number of design decisions that show honest to goodness innovative thinking on LG's part."

        • +1 vote

          If he was an Apple or Samsung fanboy, why would he tell people reading it to buy HTC One instead?

          I just think he was frustrated using the phone and was his opinion.

          One of those things, once you're frustrated, you start to become overly harsh, which is what I think happened here.

          Unprofessional, but realistic in terms of the average user. Tech heads though, it's not the review for you.


          Because HTC sponsor Conde Nast sites
          The sponsorship is so deep that they have an image of an HTC One surrounding embedded video, even in their iPhone 5 review (which looked odd).


      S4: History of chronic failures since launch.
      craploads of units sold in Oz have been returned due to Battery pull failures.. meaning phone switches off and wont re-start unless the battery is pulled.
      4G chips are dodgy at best and have been reported to give speeds slowed than 3G at times
      Overheating issues

      Just saying!

      My vote would be for the HTC one.. over the S4

    • +7 votes

      One of the great things about the iPhones is that they hold their value better than any other phone, it is seriously impressive.

      I hear this often, but it's not so straight forward.

      Let's look at the two phones being recommended heavily by various people on this thread - the flagship phones of Apple and Google.

      Let's say your good friend, Albus Dumbledore, buys an iPhone 5S for $869, and, as you say, it holds it's value nicely so that in two years time after the 6 and 6S are both on the market, the 5S has only dropped by 30% in value. (Yes, I'm deliberately being a bit generous here; historically it's more than that)

      Then there's your other buddy, Gandalf, he buys a Nexus 4 for $299, but two years later it has plummeted atrociously and dropped 80% in value! (Again, that's massively overstating things. Nexus phones are holding up nicely even with the imminent Nexus 5.)

      You can probably already see where I'm heading here. Even though the iPhone 5S has held it's value nicely, Albus is out of pocket ~$260. Meanwhile with the Nexus, Galdalf has only lost ~$240. So if "holding value" was a key factor in buying a phone, a Nexus trumps an iPhone any day. It's all relative to how you measure "value" and the base price.


        Very interesting lesson here, Ii wish I could double-vote for you.
        This will be one of the most interesting stories I will be sharing with my kids on Spending 101.

        As my kids grow up, this will also be the story I would tell them should they decide to be a businessman, Selling 101 (RRP markup for it's holding value).

    • +1 vote

      I'd put Nexus 4 to triple tie for second

  • +5 votes

    Nexus 5! Rumoured to be announced 14 October, I think the wait will be worth it. Nexus 4 is still really good if you can get one, though the camera isn't great. There's also the Moto X but I'm not sure when that will be available in Australia.

    I recommend these because they run stock Android. That means you will receive software updates for at least 2 years and they will be available instantly. You'll come to find that this is very important, as most features you get on other phones, say the S4 have features that you'll ultimately rarely if ever use in the long run. For example, the next major update, 4.4 KitKat is going to be released shortly and all the Nexus devices will receive them the moment it is available. All other Android devices however will not, and you are looking at at least 3 months before they do. And this just for the flagships. In my opinion stock Android has the best, smoothest interface as well, with traits that translate pretty well from iOS.


    Can anyone suggest a good place to get a Nexus 4 from (didnt even know it existed :P)? Recently purchased a Nexus 7 (second gen) and love it.

    Wondering if there will be a new version of the Nexus 4 in the near future, although the pricing looks decent as it is.


    Cool so we can buy from the playstore? Gunna do some more research into it and bite the bullet next week.

    So sick of my windows phone, although i only really bought it for testing anyway.


    Hey Guys, Im after a good camera, what would you guys recommend?

  • +2 votes

    I suggest the Apple of China: Xiaomi Mi3, announced just a week before iphone 5s, twice as powerful than Galaxy S4, both camera and battery from Sony. On top of that, it costs about half of what S4 retails for.

    • +1 vote

      That would be awesome, but aren't they next to impossible to get outside of China? Even then I wonder if they'd work on our networks and such… I might have to do some research on this for myself.


        I myself is using Mi2 at the moment, works well with LiveConnected. Only had to do some tweaking on the internet data set up, as this model config. is not available on Optus' config. list.

        Let me know if you are really, really keen. I have friends in mainland to help.

  • +5 votes

    I just went from a 4S to a nexus 4. Love it!!! It's a steal at $250. Feels solid to me unlike the samsungs.

  • +5 votes

    To be honest, both Apple and Android phones are getting to the stage where there are really only subtle, incremental changes made every product cycle. I imagine if you switched over to android you would still feel the same disappointment of buying a phone that is functionally not much different to the last one that you bought. You probably need to reconsider whether it is truly necessary for you to buy a new phone every six months.

    • +2 votes

      Its silly to upgrade every 6 months, most people could probably get away with upgrading every 2nd generation. Plenty of contracts are 24 months (if you are foolish enough to go that way), and a phone generation tend to be in yearly cycle. I'm starting to get to the point though, where I have no desire to get a new gen phone that'll just open a browser .2 of a second quicker, or run a game/app in slightly better detail that my poor vision won't notice anyways. :P

      All these newer phones tend to do is offer more gimmicks, or support something new like 64 bit, so in a couple of years they can stop supporting the old hardware with updates to encourage people to buy a new phone. Every year they push out a new update to slow down old hardware without really improving much, so cynical, but true. lol Whatever happened to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

      • +4 votes

        Exactly, I am still using my Samsung Galaxy SII thanks to custom ROMs keeping it alive.

        Still works perfect. I have had it now for 2 years and 2 months. I might upgrade to Nexus 5 if it's the phone to get, but no rush at all.

  • +12 votes

    i was hesitant to read this thread, thinking it would be an all out android vs ios war, but there is actually some pretty helpful and useful ideas and comments.
    Good work.


    Let both Apple and Samsung die or kill/sue each other. They both out to rip off customers. Plenty of Android alternatives out there.

    If you have a tablet that you lug around, speed probably won't be the key factor in deciding what you choose.. Rather its durability. Anything with a 1M+ waterproof rating is a good start.


      with a 1M+ waterproof rating is a good start.

      That sort of feature would only appeal to a niche market… mainly the ones who want a phone for outdoor/sporting activities. But I don't think the regular Six-pack Joe needs a waterproof phone to IP8 standards.

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