Is Apple Actually Rip-Off?

p1 ama on 19/11/2013 - 19:28

This is a topic that comes up time and time again with both sides saying that they are right. However, I wouldn't mind a proper discussion on the topic, given that there are quite a number of people who are staunchly for or against Apple on this forum.

I've done a bit of research and this is what I've (personally) found. In the desktop market, Apple has two offerings, the iMac and Mac Mini. The Mac Pro also features here, but it's so terribly bad value that it doesn't really warrant inclusion here.

Let's look at the 21.5" iMac.

One thing to note here is that Apple charges exhorbitant prices for upgrades. E.g. $240 for a 250GB SSD and you lose your 1TB hard drive. So the more you upgrade the iMac, the more disproportionately expensive it becomes. But let's look at the base config.

  • 2.7 GHz Core i5
  • 8GB RAM
  • 1TB 5400rpm HDD
  • Intel Iris Pro Graphics
  • Monitor, Keyboard/Mouse, OS included
  • $1599

So my aim is to build a similar or better computer out of parts for less, this is what I could do, trying to match the iMac as much as possible:

  • Fractal Design Define Mini - $129
  • Corsair VS450 - $55
  • ASUS B85M-G - $89
  • Intel Core i5 4670 - $245
  • 1TB Seagate Barracuda - $67
  • Gigabyte Radeon HD7770- $99
  • ASUS PB248Q 24in IPS - $429
  • Logitech MK520 - $59
  • Total - $1172

Assembly and OS should be a maximum of $200. So it comes down nearly $300 cheaper than the Apple alternative. A similar story is told when we look at other models.

This is despite us trying to counter the claims Apple supporters make, e.g. better monitor quality…etc. Here we chose an ASUS PB series IPS screen as well as discrete graphics which will run circles around the Iris Pro graphics.

So what we end up here is an Apple tax of $300. In your opinion, what do you get for this $300 and is it worth it?

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Comments

    • [Deactivated] on 20/11/2013 - 21:30
      +2

      I don't personally like Macs, but I couldn't agree with you more. I think what's lost on the haters is perspective. Some people NEED apple to get into computers and start using them at all. Android does a great job of catering to the power user and PC does a great job of being a work horse for commerce. In the hardware department Macs ARE very reliable, not enough to warrant 8 times the price tag but then again if you earn a million dollars a year it's more important that your machine works than how much it costs.

      BTW you forgot to add the OS in the cost (unless of course you're going to pirate it which I've got nothing against).

      • DeWalt on 22/11/2013 - 15:57
        +4

        Being as concise as I can,

        • The most reliable laptop brand (according to LifeHacker) are ASUS. Apple came 3rd
        • Apple have excellent UI for basic tasks. Some things are very annoying - particularly if you aren't totally in the Apple eco-system (eg. copying songs onto your device). If you have Apple TV, and only Apple devices, Apple is a much better prospect. if you're 1/2 and 1/2 in the Apple camp, Apple make things very difficult (eg. limited data formats, locked into iTunes book/movie/music purchases for Apple devices only, etc)
        • Apple are usually very good about warranty. If you have a problem, they normally don't stuff around. I'd consider the Apple stores unbeatable when it comes to service and support - it's really first rate.
        • Since Steve Jobs has died, quality at Apple has gone down hill a little. One of several examples - Apple maps was pretty bad on first release. IOS7 (while adding some desperately needed features, like 1 click wifi toggle) as been a little hit and miss. 2 year old devices are not performing so well with IOS 7 (as one example). My iPad3 struggles with the animations, and some button presses take a noticeable time to respond (much slower than IOS 6.x).

        I think the Apple argument is quite simple…
        - If you want the overall best, regardless of cost, then go Apple
        - If you're financially conscious and watch your money, seriously consider alternatives
        - If you aren't completely committed to Apple, Apple's walled garden is a HUGE pain in the ass

        FYI - My family is half in the Apple camp, and I am often frustrated at the Apple experience. I can't operate well with Android or my PC (eg. Android and PC lets me use any format I want, as does my WDTV Live - but Apple won't play ball with most audio/video formats).

        Note: Apple compatibility is mainly an issue on IOS (eg. iPhone/iPad) rather than MACOS. I thought I should point this out before I was crucified for not being clear ;)

    • [Deactivated] on 21/11/2013 - 19:41

      I agree with your statement, but not with what you are implying.

      You buy them for their reliability and the lifespan of the product. not just in regards to breaking, but in regards to whether it will still run what you need it to.
      You buy them because they tend not to break as much.
      You buy them because you enjoy the interface.
      You buy them because you like the feel of them and you like the look of them.
      You buy them because they feel natural with your other Apple products, and other apple programs.

      Why is that a bad thing?

      If not for the experience, why else would you buy a computer of any kind?

      • DeWalt on 22/11/2013 - 16:03
        +1

        If not for the experience, why else would you buy a computer of any kind?

        As a utility, or a means to an end. Like I would a TV, telephone or Microwave oven. I wouldn't spend $1000 on a Microwave for the experience (eg. nicer buttons, a few more features, nicer audio tones, a fancy door, etc) - if I could buy a similar device at 1/2 the price.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/11/2013 - 03:28
          +11

          You can't compare a computer to a microwave. You don't spend 10 hours a day using a microwave… Unless you are a really shit Chef.

    • Kelalako on 22/11/2013 - 12:09
      +4

      Why is this negged. Why do people buy brands like LV, YSL, GUCCI. etc.

      • Jackson on 23/11/2013 - 23:29
        +4

        Don't worry, We'd neg those people too

  • Riczter on 19/11/2013 - 19:48
    +29

    $300 of extra shinyness

  • Daabido on 19/11/2013 - 19:52
    +62

    You get OS X for a start. For some, including myself, that is worth the difference. Then you get a nicely integrated and quiet computer with one cord for power. Aesthetics do count when you spend a large proportion of your time in front of a screen.

    I also disagree with what you are saying about the Mac Pro being bad value, especially if it is the new model you are referring to. In the end, it will come down to what you personally value. Just as their are many choices in food, clothes, white goods and cars, there is also a choice in computers, including Windows, Linux and OS X.

    Unwashed computer nerds (linux apologists), spec whores (Windows devotees) and mindless queue joiners (iSheep), you are never going to get a civilised debate. Any debate of this kind has always descended hard and fast to the rock bottom of trolling and character assassination. If you're very lucky, you might avoid a mention of Godwin's Law.

    The fact that you added up component prices and then labeled the rest an Apple tax already shows a clear bias, so I will bow out of this fight. To each their own I say and I am forever grateful that in this world of ours, we have a little thing called personal choice. It is worth cherishing.

    • jaygee on 20/11/2013 - 00:20
      +3

      Can you not bootload Mac OSX onto Windows yet like vice versa? I reckon if you could, it would cut deeply into Apple's profits because of cost saving.

      • scrimshaw on 20/11/2013 - 00:45
        +1

        Can you not bootload Mac OSX onto Windows yet like vice versa?

        That's not the right term, but I get what you mean.

        You can install OSX on an unsupported laptop or desktop (called a "hackintosh"), but doing so breaches Apple's EULA and licensing agreements meaning you won't get any official tech support, and your troubleshooting procedures are also a little tricker.

        Only a small subset of users actually do this, since there's a lot of problems when it comes to hardware compatibility and system updates.

        • abbztract on 20/11/2013 - 11:31
          +1

          There aren't necessarily a lot of problems with hardware compatibility and updates. TonyMacx86 has a monthly updated guide to completely compatible parts and properly working builds. Software updates are also, in most cases, as simple as updating via the Mac App Store just as you would on an actual Mac.

        • chiefbodge on 20/11/2013 - 21:41

          i have a macbook but my main computer is an i7 hackintosh and I use it full time for work developing iPhone apps. There are drawbacks but it generally works pretty well.

          This thread is completely pointless of course. I'm never going to convince a windows or linux fan why I prefer OSX and why I think apple hardware is worth the money.

          I think it is important to look at the total cost of ownership though and not just the purchase price. I can almost guarantee that after 1 year the iMac will have retained far more of its value than the PC.

        • scrimshaw on 21/11/2013 - 10:24
          +7

          My cost of ownership is thus far (in the last 6 years) for a gaming system

          Custom built PC
          E8500 + Mobo + RAM + Case + PSU + OS + HDD + GPU + LCD monitor
          $1091

          Upgrades done later that year:
          GPU (sold old 9600GT, got GTX 260) $200)
          PSU (recycled, got Antec TruePower) $109
          Case (recycled for other desktop, got new Antec 100) $66
          Total upgrade cost: $375

          Custom built PC Major Core system upgrade year 4

          Core i5 2500k + Z68 + DDR3 RAM + Same Case + Same OS

          Recycled old RAM, mobo, CPU.

          $350

          Built another computer out of spare parts for Media centre: $0

          Latest upgrade
          Radeon 7870 $225
          +4GB additional RAM $51
          SSD $108
          2TB+ WD RED drive $115
          Windows 8 Upgrade $0 free from university

          $499

          Total cost of ownership over 6 years
          $2315

          And I was also to use my old spare parts to build a second computer for HTPC use.
          OF course my computer went through so many upgrades the line between an 'old desktop' and a 'new desktop' is somewhat unclear.
          Anyway for me this is the main reason I went for a PC because I like to be able to upgrade my system in increments rather than spending large chunks of money in one go for a non-upgradable, all-in-one desktop, and I can also re-use old (but still not obsolete parts). The other advantage is expandability — something AIO's will always lack. If I want to turn my cruddy desktop into a kick-arse gaming system, I can easily do that with a CPU or GPU upgrade.

          If Apple ever made a iMac that came in a regular tower and not in AIO, then I wouldn't mind getting an OSX system myself. The planned obsolescence that comes with Apple products (in general) doesn't appeal to me.

        • Librarier on 23/11/2013 - 10:12
          -4

          Ok. I use a Macbook at home. Building a PC soon for gaming/steamboxery.

          In 2007 I bought their lowest range laptop, $1100 + $200 applecare ($1300). They replaced it after three repairs, and I requested an upgrade.

          Upgrade to the midrange aluminium body Macbook in 2008 for $440 including my new Applecare/warranty

          Refunded the balance of my old applecare (-$150 if I remember properly)

          I went on to add 6GB RAM in 2011 ($132)
          250GB SSD this year ($150)

          $1872, 6 years.

          Of course, my Macbook was probably the last of those that let you do these things, so what do I know (very little)

          TL;DR - Applecare is the only extended warranty I'd ever recommend to anyone.

        • Jackson on 24/11/2013 - 11:19

          After 3 repairs you can ask for a free replacement of a different model or your money back, technically it's considered a lemon

        • Librarier on 25/11/2013 - 16:07
          -1

          Yup, the replacement for the equivalent entry level would have been free. This was an upgrade to a Macbook pro from Macbook white unibody. Thanks for the downvote though.

      • markinaus on 20/11/2013 - 23:35
        +2

        You can but it's really not the same as using a Mac. Apple have some really nice hardware integration with OS X like gesture controls via the touchpad on Macbook Pro's and sh#t like that, which of course is not there with a hackintosh.

        Another aspect is hardware comparability for drivers within OS X, like scrimshaw mentioned. With an Intel CPU you may get it working after a lot of messing about, but don't even think about trying with AMD processor xD (it is possible for this to work, but sooooo fkin hard…).

        Either way yeah it's possible but in my opinion not worth the effort, and not something that a non-"savvy" computer users will be able to manage.

    • John on 20/11/2013 - 21:51
      +6

      You sir deserve my likes.

      I think its stupid for comparing two completely different products (albeit similar) and then calling the other that is more expensive a rip-off.

      It's like buying a Coca Cola and then I made my own mix of Cola Soda and then I call Coca Cola a ripoff for charging me $1 more per L. Or buying a nice pair of genuine Ray Ban sunglasses and call it a rip off as I could've just buy a knockoff at a side street of Thailand for 99% cheaper.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/11/2013 - 06:59

        Well you're missing the point of the thread. You're assuming that Apple equates to Coca Cola when some people believe it could sit right next to Pepsi or even just plain ol' homebrand cola.

        • DeWalt on 22/11/2013 - 16:13
          +3

          Also, you need to consider interoperability with your computers. This isn't an issue for softdrinks.

          Apple does not play nice. One simple example. I store my music in lossless format that is not in Apple's ALAC format. In order to get my music onto my Apple devices, I need to do the following,

          • either re-rip my CDs (slow and painful), or
          • convert them to mp3 or similar format

          But also, if I am missing any meta-data tags, my songs won't appear on my iPhone (eg. if the artist name is missing).

          I sometimes spend a lot of time massaging my music and video libraries just to get them to work in the Apple eco-system. This lack of interoperability has always been very annoying for me.

          You don't have this issue with pepsi. I can use any straw and cup I like ;)

        • _Bruce_ on 22/11/2013 - 16:19

          You can convert directly from FLAC (or anything else) to ALAC, however the lack of FLAC support is VERY annoying.

        • John on 23/11/2013 - 10:04

          No.. you all are missing my points.

          I'm not equating Apple to Coca Cola. I'm comparing Coca Cola with Cola. Ray Ban with Ray Bahn. And if I want to add another.. Gucci and Guess. Prada and Oroton. Samsung and LG. Toyota and Honda. Whatever…

          My point is, you can't call the other a rip-off based on price if the other is a different product (even if its similar). They all set their price based on many factors not just its components/usability.. but things such as market demand, design, the BRAND, etc

          And if you don't support that product, just buy the other one. Simple!

          But calling the other different brand a rip-off is totally unwarranted.

        • Jackson on 24/11/2013 - 11:32

          Regardless of the differences, the bottom line is Apple charges more for their hardware because they have always and will always pitch themselves as a 'premium' product. Anyone who knows anything at all about Jobs knows this to be true.

          As "premium" is a perception, you are paying extra for this perception, since the value of components in one is potentially the same as in another. They don't make an aluminium unibody just because it's nice, they make it because it's a feature some will pay extra for. Eg. It might cost an extra $10 but they will mark up and extra $50 for the feature. They can't increase their prices by this much without product differentiation, and as such they try very hard at differentiation.

          Microsoft probably spends a lot more on on software R&D than Apple does, but no one counts all the ways Windows is better than Mac OS. It's much easier to say Mac has this or that extra. This is not good or bad, it's just capitalism at work.

    • Jackson on 23/11/2013 - 23:33

      I think I am going to get a bumper sticker: "I am a Linux user and I wash"

  • Riczter on 19/11/2013 - 20:10
    +15

    FWIW, my mate who likes tech but is not that tech savvy just changed from windows to mac, took him a couple weeks to get used to it, but now raves about it, says its just so much better. Can't actually put a finger on what exactly is better, just the whole experience. He's slowly convincing me to get a mac as well.. I've got nothing against apple, they charge exorbitant prices coz they can, and coz people will pay that much. Whether they are better is (literally) apples and oranges. Some people love Mac OS, some dont. You pay extra for the apple experience, the ecosystem, the efficient integrated OS, the friendly staff at the shiny apple stores, and the aesthetics of the products as previously mentioned ;)

    • exc3113nce on 20/11/2013 - 20:52
      +3

      Not sure why this received so many negatives. I'm in the same boat as this guys mate. Except the main difference to be is the UX.

    • ozhunter on 20/11/2013 - 23:24
      +2

      I just got a rMBP 13in few days ago(first Apple product in around 7 years) , and I can't stand OSX. I haven't installed Windows 8 yet, as I want to give it a few more days, but at the moment I don't like it at all.

      Everything works(as it should) but it also does on Windows 8.

      • itsfree on 20/11/2013 - 23:52
        +1

        What do you dislike about it?

        • ozhunter on 21/11/2013 - 00:11
          +3

          The lack of the "snap" feature from windows
          VLC player has crashed 3 times so far
          Hangouts crashed once, and can't send images that are on the mac(screen just goes blank)
          Unless I'm missing it, there's no "View desktop" like windows where you click the bottom right corner.
          Having to put in credit card details to update apps.
          Slow animations, such as maximizing VLC player
          Network adapter seem to take a while to find other computers on the network.

          I'm sure it will get easier to use with time, as I'm probably so used to Windows 8, but imo it's definitely not as easy to use as everyone makes it out to be. I'm always looking online how to do simple tasks.

          The main reasons I got the rMBP over the samsung ativ book 9 plus was that there was 10% off sale, I had $300 voucher to use, knowing I can install windows on it, will be going overseas soon, and to just try out OS X.

        • Riczter on 21/11/2013 - 01:05
          +8

          From my experience most windows users spend the first few days hating mac, then start to discover all the cool nifty quirks and after a couple of weeks would never go back.. so give it a bit more time ;)

        • Woodyg22 on 21/11/2013 - 01:07
          +3

          The app "BetterTouchTool" works great for snapping windows on a mac.
          Also you can view your desktop with a multiple finger stroke on your mousepad (might have to enable in settings first)

          Just a couple of things that I have worked out over time as I had to get a mac with school a couple of years ago, it has grown on me.

        • itsfree on 21/11/2013 - 01:21
          +6

          The lack of the "snap" feature from windows

          There are a few apps that replicate this functionality – I personally prefer Breeze. In fact, I like it better than Aero Snap because keyboard shortcuts means it's faster and cleaner…

          VLC player has crashed 3 times so far

          Same for me - but I found that was actually due to VLC not releasing an OS X Mavericks compatible update straight away (it worked flawlessly for me on Mountain Lion). They released v2.1.1 last week, which resolves "Mac OS X crashes" amongst other issues.

          Unless I'm missing it, there's no "View desktop" like windows where you click the bottom right corner.

          I just use the Show Desktop gesture. Also, you can enable similar functionality using Hot Corners, or even just a keyboard shortcut.

          Having to put in credit card details to update apps.

          I have only had to configure my payment details once (that was only when I was purchasing an app too); however, I don't even have to worry about installing updates – it does it all for me automatically.

          Slow animations, such as maximizing VLC player

          You can increase the speed by changing the minimisation effect to "Scale" in System Preferences.

          Network adapter seem to take a while to find other computers on the network.

          I find that if a computer isn't appearing in Finder, a surefire way is to use Finder's Connect to Server feature. Never fails me.

          Hope that helps you out! :)

        • ozhunter on 21/11/2013 - 02:26
          +2

          @Riczter I might be an exception. As a Google fanboy, I'm loving Windows 8.1 without any 3rd party start button.

          @Woodyg22 Thanks for that link, it's working great

          @itsfree Thanks heaps for all those links(especially Hot Corners), it already made using OSX more likeable. I might try out Breeze app later on, when I get some itunes gift cards.

        • galapogos01 on 21/11/2013 - 08:19
          +4

          Interesting that people think it's OK for OSX to require an app to provide core functionality (Window snapping), but people hate on W8 requiring an app to get the legacy start menu.

          Most people compare their brand new OSX experience to either a bodgy corporate 10+ year old XP build, or a Samsung'd OEM build full of crapware on a bottom spec machine. A lot of the benefits claimed by OSX users are features Windows has had for years.

        • itsfree on 22/11/2013 - 00:20

          people hate on W8 requiring an app to get the legacy start menu.

          That's not why people hate on it; Microsoft removed something that was already there and working perfectly well for decades. I'm perfectly happy with Windows 7 – my apps all still run well, my computer still runs well, and the Start menu still helps me get the job done.

        • theguyrules on 22/11/2013 - 00:32
          -2

          Thats exactly what galapogos was saying…

        • massafiri on 23/11/2013 - 09:31

          I was much like you.
          I didn't like OSX to begin with and found it counter productive. Now I can comfortably switch between Win7 and OSX without many problems. Honestly. I've fell in love with OSX, and much prefer it over Windows today.

          Here are some apps that will help your journey.
          HyperDock is probably the best application for Windows to Mac migrants.
          HyperDock will display all the open windows when hovering over the app's icon in the dock (Like Win7) and also has a very good Aero snap feature with a bucket load of handy guestures.
          It also adds the much needed "middle click on dock icons" - which will open a new instance of the application.
          The App is $9.99USD but it is well worth it.

          Id also recommend the free app MagicPrefs.
          Magic prefs allows you to customize the trackpad and Magic Mouse in ways you never thought possible.
          My biggest recommendation is to make a three finger trackpad click to emulate a mouse click!

        • Librarier on 23/11/2013 - 10:17

          Another protip - move your dock to the left - you're already used to looking to the left for your Start menu. It made it a lot easier for me in the beginning, and helps me switch between OSX and Windows.

          Quicksilver is another great app for launching programs and files. I hope there's a windows equivalent for when I return to Windows at home.

        • John on 24/11/2013 - 10:06

          Sounds like you're expecting an OSX to behave like Windows 8. Its two different products, so you just gotta adapt with it and in the end find which suits your preference better

        • Mr Wowtrousers on 26/11/2013 - 19:18

          Check out MOOM for window snapping. Yes it costs $10 (I got it for 5) but waaaay more snapping options than Win 7 or 8. But yeah, annoying that it doesn't come out of the box.

          http://manytricks.com/moom/

          You can "view desktop" with keyboard shortcuts but also by using multifingered pinches.

  • plmko on 19/11/2013 - 20:16
    +2

    There is more to the story than just listing some computer/parts based on RRP against Apple RRP, in reality Apple products are not 'open price' and at best will net you 10% off, many OEM manufactures whilst also having a RRP actually operate on 'open price' and it's quite common to find huge discounts on them.

    For instance last year when I bought my 13" Vaio S, for the same $1299 RRP, I doubled the RAM to 12gb, pumped the processor from i5 to i7 2.9ghz, went from 750gb to 1tb HDD and a bonus secondary expansion battery worth $180. And this is all in the premium carbon fiber edition shell. All of this because retailers couldn't 'glorify' the product with glitzy marketing.

  • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2013 - 21:05
    +8

    For a fair comparison, compare apples with apples. You are comparing what is called an 'All in one' in the pc world. this should start you off:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2401541,00.asp

    It costs a lot to make everything fit into the back space of the monitor. Most of those PCs are lower spec than the iMac (esp. video card), because you are paying extra for fitting it into such a small space.

    If you can deal with a separate case, then definitely get a PC as you have priced out. Buy the parts listed on http://www.hackintosh.com/ and you can even run OSX natively.

  • Luminary on 19/11/2013 - 21:29
    +1

    I use Apple for the OS. I just seem to be able to do things so much faster. (Love the trackpad). And if you try, you can get some pretty decent prices. I got a virtually new 21" iMac (last of the fatter generations) for $1000 off eBay and a 11" MacAir for just over $700, which I felt were pretty decent prices

    • ThadtheChad on 20/11/2013 - 01:09
      +4

      I think the MBP trackpad is possibly the best trackpad/touchpad there is. Nothing feels as fluid and comfortable. Normally, I use a portable mouse with my laptops, however, I prefer using the mbp trackpad over the mouse when I use my mac. They have an absolute winner with the design and feel of the thing.

  • blighst on 19/11/2013 - 21:34
    -4

    Apple (Foxconn) don't pay for assembly, they just enlist thousands of trapped workers. Thus you shouldn't count it in your cost.

  • Baghern on 19/11/2013 - 22:09
    +27

    Another name for the so called 'experience' is being lead like sheep. This is not being derogatory about sheep.

    Unless we're really into it, we don't like things being too complicated. That's what Apple gives you, it takes away your options. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a limitation.

    Think of a Park, Apple lets you only walk on the concrete paths. Simple easy and WOW so intuitive…

    PCs let you walk on the grass, that means you can get to your destination quicker, but it also mean an uneven path, you might come across weeds, you might trip. Then again you see and learn more things about the park, you see it from different angles.

    Then there's Linux… your NEO….

    • Riczter on 19/11/2013 - 23:14
      +2

      OMG this is the best comparison of operating systems I've ever heard, thank you sir.

    • theguyrules on 20/11/2013 - 01:32
      +1

      What options are taken away?

    • hangdog on 20/11/2013 - 09:23
      +5

      Software-wise, Apple has more options, since you can run non-Apple OSes on Macs. In hardware, there is a limited menu of options, as there is with other name-brand PC suppliers.

      DIY boxes will always come out cheaper than Apple, as they will against name-brand Windows PCs. But don't forget that the vast majority of computer users don't want to build their own computers.

      • Baghern on 20/11/2013 - 10:10
        +4

        But don't forget that the vast majority of computer users don't want to build their own computers.

        That's a clincher there.

        Apple plays on the simple and easy.

        The real criticism of Apple, primarily from tech heads is that Apple pretends to be superior, its not, its just simpler.

        With PCs, there are plenty of people who want simple, they can have that and anytime they want more there's avenues for them.

        The whole compatibility issue and inability to support older with Mac's is the real eyeopener to its limitation.

        • _Bruce_ on 20/11/2013 - 10:30
          +3

          Apple pretends to be superior

          Really? They hardly even mention tech these days except in passing. All of their advertising and announcements are about style, experience and art. Ever now and then they throw in something like '64 bit' to remind you they do tech stuff.

          They haven't tried to sell technology for a long time.

        • hangdog on 20/11/2013 - 11:08

          The whole compatibility issue and inability to support older with Mac's is the real eyeopener to its limitation.

          Not sure I get your meaning. Macs run Windows too. And hardware obsolescence, or OS/feature limitations on older machines isn't a Mac-only issue but a universal one.

          BTW I'm a Mac user by choice, but remote into Windows for work every day.

        • camelgrass on 20/11/2013 - 20:54
          +1

          They haven't tried to sell technology for a long time.

          I don't agree with that. Go to their website, you will see in the mac section they often and prominently mention things like power, speed, high performance, state-of-the-art, new technologies, and even list some of the technologies on the main pages and you can click through for even more tech details.

          They are definitely still selling the technology side of things, and there's no question they are selling the superior tag. (just like other manufacturers do although Apple do it the best). Note that superior doesn't just mean superior technology.

    • misu p on 23/11/2013 - 12:28

      Haha, best description ever :).

    • Mr Wowtrousers on 26/11/2013 - 19:25

      I'm sorry, but this reads like the standard line from people who have never used any of the systems extensively but just like to parrot what they saw on Reddit about "sheeple".

      Guess what? Not everyone likes what you like. What you like is not "better" than what everyone else likes.

      Your analogy falls at the first example, because OS X is built on *NIX. They just hide it beautifully. If you want to go off the path, you can, and you can go deep.

      Windows, sure, you are closer to the mark, however "might" come across weeds should be replaced with "will".

      As for Linux … what can I say? Fanboys have been crying "the year of Linux" for at least a decade. It won't happen and never will. Any arguments to the contrary are just loopy. Maybe with Steambox it might go somewhere for games, but for the average person? Nope.

      I don't know. It seems there is a very vocal minority demographic who seems to wear inferior products and lack of ease of use as some kind of badge of tech manliness whereas everyone else just wants to use their tools efficiently to do stuff.

  • ThadtheChad on 20/11/2013 - 00:34
    +15

    As someone who straddles all three "worlds", I'd like to pitch in my 2c.

    Windows: Love it or hate it, it's here to stay. The standard SOE for most organisations because of their unparalleled enterprise management capabilities. For gamers, there is no other alternative. Sure, there are a few AAA titles on Mac/Linux, but everything is available on Windows. It is extremely user friendly as a vast majority of the populace started on Windows and so "workflows" and UI concepts are deeply ingrained in us. You'd need a bit of technical-smarts to get the best out of your Windows box, but it is worth it. :) Also, the app eco system is by far the most mature, user-friendly and robust as compared to ANY of the other alternatives.

    Linux: This used to be the domain for technophiles. However, with the advent of user-friendly OSes like Ubuntu, this is now mainstream. That said, sometimes when things go to shit, you need to have the expertise to yank out the terminal and go elbow deep into the guts of the system. Installing something really new that isn't there in the repos, get ready to compile from source and resolve dependencies… "unf**king" the situation is like an adventure with you trying to decipher cryptic error messages, trying quick and dirty fixes; and when all else fails… trying to get help on stackexchange. :)

    OS X: I'll admit, I've been a staunch Apple-hater until I bought my MBP. Initial learning curve was a bit steep as I was used to a lot more control of my OS elements. However, once I got used to it, I started appreciating the really nifty UI features (especially stuff built around the touchpad) that made this my indispensable "side-arm" (aka my portable machine). Really love Mac OSX and the fact that I can quickly jump under the hood (i.e. terminal) and take control. Also, with inexpensive VMware Fusion (only $49 vs $250+ for workstation on Windows), I have all the OSes that I rely on at my fingertips. Suffice to say, I'm a convert. With regards to the "Apple tax", for base models, I really don't think it's that much. I paid ~$1600 in all (third party 16GB of RAM and 256GB SSD) for my 13" mid 2012 mbp. While I'm sure you can get the same specs for much cheaper in either the Windows or Linux worlds, IMHO the build quality of the unibodies is par-excellence. I have opened many a Dell/Sony/HP and in comparison with the "physical space optimisations" and build of the MBPs, they ranged from slightly more "meh" to absolute shite (I'm looking at my retired XPS m1330).

    My inventory is as follows:

    1. Dell Vostro 3550 (shitbox) running Windows 7
    2. Dell Inspiron 13" running a whole bunch of distros (pentoo, SamuraiWTF, Arch etc; will be running Kali for the foreseeable future)
    3. Thinkpad E330 running Kali (as above)
    4. Desktop (the beast): my go-to whenever I need the grunt and the large dual monitors. :) Also gaming.
    5. HP Microserver running Ubuntu Server and functions as a NAS and a jumpbox for "other purposes".
    6. 13" Macbook Pro (non-retina)
  • MementoMori on 20/11/2013 - 02:00
    +5

    What most techie Apple haters seem to miss is that these computers are not aimed at them. They're aimed at the 95% rest of the population.

    Free in store lessons, glossy packets, limited issues like viruses / drivers, fewer number of cables, hell, even a computer that is already 'put together' with very compatible parts, etc are very valuable to people who can't just naturally figure it out (or care to) like we can.

    P.S. I run a Windows 7 PC.

  • bs0 on 20/11/2013 - 02:01
    +9

    Durability is something I've noticed with my Macbooks.
    My 2008 13" Macbook is still going after 5 years. I've had it since mid high school and used it at the start of Uni. It has had its share of bumps and drops (negligent student) especially after I stopped using a case. But the original aluminum is so damn good. Dropped it on one of its corner and the screen didn't crack or anything, only the metal bent slightly. After 5 years, I've only noticed that its slower on boot up, warmer and the battery is about 50% of what it use to be. Otherwise it is fine, and performs like normal. Comparing to other friends and family, no one I know has been able to use their laptop/computer for so long.

    I recently swapped to the new 2013 Macbook Air 13". Reasons for doing so was that I wanted something whose battery lasted longer, and was lighter. The macbook air price has dropped so much compared to a few models back. So far so good.

    • MementoMori on 20/11/2013 - 02:04
      +1

      Great point. I had a hard time explaining to my Mum why her 1 year old Asus laptops battery is next to useless because she left it plugged in all the time.

      • obses2ion on 20/11/2013 - 02:50
        +2

        think that applies to all laptops? if u overchage any battery it will obviously die earlier.. I just learnt to use my laptops without the batteries plugged in. makes the batteries last alot longer. and with my mac air I try to use the battery more then using it with the charger in

        • MementoMori on 20/11/2013 - 15:59
          +1

          Yes - this applies to all batteries.

          But (to my knowledge) Macs don't have this problem as it is taken care of automatically for the user. So people like my Mum who don't know you shouldn't leave it plugged in all the time don't have to think or worry about this.

        • _Bruce_ on 20/11/2013 - 16:14

          This isn't special to Macs, modern laptops have this feature.

        • ThadtheChad on 20/11/2013 - 16:16
          +1

          It's not overcharging that kills the batteries. It's proximity to a heat source that tends to either warp the plates or induce chemical changes to the electrolyte (AFAIK) which results in a diminished capacity to hold charge.

          Most chargers cut off charging even if you leave it plugged in once it reaches 100% and will resume charging once it goes below a threshold.

        • MementoMori on 20/11/2013 - 17:34

          A 1 year old cheapie Asus did not have his feature.

          I don't know how it could be implemented unless both the hardware and software are from the same manufacturer.

        • _Bruce_ on 20/11/2013 - 17:44
          +2

          Software has nothing to do with it, it is a purely hardware solution. Are you sue the Asus didn't have it?

        • coolhand on 20/11/2013 - 18:58

          It is partially due to superior battery management within osx. Once the battery is fully charged under osx it won't try to charge it again until it is at 94-95%, which if you leave it plugged in is usually over a week. Whereas windows in my experience had tried to charge it as soon as it drops by 1%. I have never been able to find a software solution to this

        • francis.tks on 20/11/2013 - 21:03

          Nope that is not true, when your laptop is between 95- 100% windows will detect it as a 100% and will not charge the battery, you can try it yourself(at least for newer windows).

    • obses2ion on 20/11/2013 - 02:48
      +1

      my sisters power mac g4 (cost $5k) back in the days lasted her till 2010. still starts up and everything just in the cupboard now as its too slow and annoying to use (only has a 20gb hardrive or something around there cant remember) they are very reliable machines! if looked after properly, however, in saying that my sony vaio that I got in 2005 for 3kish still works now! (used by the father for buisness now)

      over priced as sony and mac are I believe (sony being overpriced in the windows world IMO) anything can last long if you know how to use it simple. and "you get what you pay for"

    • theguyrules on 20/11/2013 - 08:13
      +2

      Oh yes. My MacBook Pro has been through a lot. Taken it everywhere with my due to its size and weight, so unfortunately it has been dropped a bit.
      But there is no way the insides have been damaged, just a couple of dints and scratches.
      It's just so much more durable than a plastic laptop.

    • itsfree on 20/11/2013 - 23:56
      +2

      Similar story for me – I've got an old white iMac (Late 2006). Still hums as well as it did from day one. Couldn't be more pleased.

  • nikey2k27 on 20/11/2013 - 05:19
    +2

    Simple just work. that apple for people who do not want to spent there day fix there computer.

  • ethereal88 on 20/11/2013 - 05:59
    -1

    Its a locked down rip off. I'd rather spend an hour slapping together a PC easily and having some actual freedom not some overpriced restricted onesie piece of junk you can't upgrade.

    • Chuppa on 20/11/2013 - 07:26
      +4

      How is a Mac restricted? It's nothing like the locked down ecosystem of iOS.

      • theguyrules on 20/11/2013 - 08:11
        +2

        Yeah, everyone likes to say that they restrict you from doing some things.
        Whilst they may hide some things away, they certainly don't stop you from doing anything at all.

        I switch between a Windows 8 PC and a MacBook Pro like, 10 times a day and both can do the exact same stuff. As an original Windows user, I have found NOTHING I can't do on a Mac without a quick Google as to how (if need be).
        They are both 100% full operating systems.

        Plus I love that OS X is Unix based, being able to use Unix commands in Terminal is much nicer than DOS commands in the Command Prompt, as a programmer.

    • Mr Wowtrousers on 26/11/2013 - 19:27
      +1

      You are not 98% of the population. Most people don't want to build their own cars either, strangely enough.

  • antzz on 20/11/2013 - 08:06
    +11

    the $300 extra will come handy when you upgrade and sold off your old computer. I dont own apple and hate its business practice but you cant deny they have the best resale value.

    Your old computer will worth $0 in 2 years time. where 2 years Mac will still cost at least 30% of its buying cost

    • Eivad on 22/11/2013 - 14:09

      This is the same with iPhones and most Android or Windows Phones.

      • theguyrules on 22/11/2013 - 15:11
        +1

        No way, the resale value of iPhones vs Android/Windows phones aren't comparable at all.

  • Malarkey on 20/11/2013 - 09:58
    +3

    You forgot the price of a power supply for your parts list :)

  • srhardy on 20/11/2013 - 10:31
    +1

    wait for 10% OFF DAYS at jbhifi/dicksmith and get the mac. also ssd is nice but on a mac its not nessary (the OSX is much more superior than win7/8 and i have all 3) so go the 1tb HD for storage IMO

    +1 for the AIR too, love it!

  • epicaricacy on 20/11/2013 - 11:06
    +7

    Assuming you are pirating the OS in your build, as there is no costing for it?? Add whatever windows 8 costs to your price.
    Power… quite important… (you don;t have any with yours!)
    Design - you have a box with a monitor separate. The iMac is all-in-one

    Those three things make the difference for me.

    I was - until 8 months ago - a 24 year PC user, right from the intel 286 processors. I went through Windows 3.1, 95, 98, 98SE, 2000, XP, Vista, 7 and hated macs whenever I was forced to use one or played with my brother-in-laws. I have a Galaxy phone, and am ASUS transformer tablet, so hardly qualify as being 'sheep'

    However, I do a lot of photography, and when my last computer went kaput, looked at iMacs. I went into the mac store, and was blown away by the 27" iMac

    A few days of using the OS, and I was used to it.

    Wouldn't go back for anything now. Worth the extra couple of hundred whatever it may be… this is one hell of a machine. Small desk footprint, all in one, fast as heck. Does anything I want to do software wise

    • coolhand on 20/11/2013 - 19:07

      The corsair VS450 is a PSU. The rest of your post is accurate, they're basically 2 very distinct options. Macs if you value incorporated design and aren't going to be putting it together yourself (I.e. pret built Mac is far superior to pre built windows), windows if you are into bang for you buck/specs (I.e. manually built PC is far better than Mac pro). OS is subjective but Mac wins because it gives you the option of having both

  • hallo123 on 20/11/2013 - 11:32
    +3

    Apple user.

    Not going to review your math.

    But only $300 extra for a Mac? Damn, that’s not a lot. I assumed it’d be much much more.

    Personally I wouldn’t get an iMac without a Fusion Drive. Just me though. 5400RPM is pretty damn slow.

    • theguyrules on 20/11/2013 - 11:43

      Heh, yeah. I have a 2 year old MacBook Pro which I've had an SSD in for boot and apps for ages.

      After telling my mother how much she needs to get an iMac for photos (her PC is like, 5 years old), we finally got one and I was like 'Wow this is slow', because of the lack of SSD.

      The actually processing I'm assuming is much better, and it runs smoother. But the launching is slow. Shame theres no room for an SSD in the new iMacs.

      • itsfree on 20/11/2013 - 23:59

        Shame theres no room for an SSD in the new iMacs.

        Actually, there is

        • theguyrules on 21/11/2013 - 00:13

          Hmm, I meant as well as a HDD.

      • Woodyg22 on 21/11/2013 - 01:24
        +1

        Shame theres no room for an SSD in the new iMacs.
        Hmm, I meant as well as a HDD.

        That's what the fusion drives are! They effectively put in a SSD a HDD for you and interlink them so that the computer automatically puts what would benefit you the most onto your SSD and keeps the rest of your stuff on the HDD. So you get the best of both, storage space with speed as well. I would definitely get one of those.

        • theguyrules on 21/11/2013 - 02:22

          I'll look into it. cheers!

    • flowergirl13 on 20/11/2013 - 13:42

      Same!
      I use a HP Laptop for work on windows, and got my 13" MBP in 2011, during the 10% off sale @ JB-HiFi, then got my work to report it as a fringe benefit! Surely that would be more than $300 saving..

  • xorprime on 20/11/2013 - 12:35
    +1

    I used to buy Thinkpad and HP before. Have to upgrade every year. I moved to Mac finally when I am able to afford them and don't have to upgrade that often. Now, I have a 4 year old macbook pro that still runs the latest OSX Mavericks. I have purchased the latest Macbook Air recently and I am getting more than 10 hours of battery life doing Xcode and Creative suite. I find them cheaper in the long run because I do not upgrade that often and the actual output I am getting is something that I can earn more money.

    • _Bruce_ on 20/11/2013 - 12:45
      +4

      Have to upgrade every year.

      Apart from the obvious problem with the comment, part of the reason for the change is that the 'need' to upgrade has gone away from the whole industry. A computer from 5 years ago is 95% as good as a new one today for most people. The same was not true prior to this.

      • jasopan on 21/11/2013 - 12:02

        Even for a gamer like myself, there is absolutely no need to upgrade every year.

        In fact, my current PC does well on most games (although starting to struggle in the last few months on the latest releases), and I built that about 4 years ago (for less than $1500). It's got an i7, 6GB RAM, GTX275, and recently an SSD. Like I said, everything still runs fantastically smooth apart from the latest games, which can be compensated by a GPU upgrade for $350 or so.

  • DEvok on 20/11/2013 - 13:35
    -6

    Apple=rip off for life, apple thinks they are way better than anyone else, and charging premium does not factor it to be better or what they call "high class products" they are basically like a LV brand which with to many gimics.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/11/2013 - 13:45
    -1

    Yay :) Now I won't feel so guilty about buying a new Mac. I thought the price difference would be far greater.

    I've had my current Mac for 5 years, it has never missed a beat. In that same time my mum (ridiculously good with computers) and in-laws (ridiculously bad with computers) have both gone through two sets of computers and had endless issues with Windows/viruses/components failing etc.

    IMO Macs are worth is just for the lack of hassle.

    Other reasons for me;

    • I do a lot of photography and photo editing, PC's are crap for this. Just had a look, currently have 52,078 photos sitting in iPhoto - and that's been culled recently.
    • It sync's with my husband's iphone, my ipad etc.
    • Building pc's takes time and effort and isn't something I consider enjoyable…I have better things to do.
    • It keeps hubby off it. He sticks to his laptop and xbox for gaming as I've gone and filled up the hard drive with photos :) He could game on it as he's put Windows on the Mac, but he's learnt to just stay away.
    • It's so fluffy and pretty, I wanna die!!!! (just one simple, sleek screen on the desk - my desk is right in the middle of our house and can be seen from pretty much every main room, so nothing ugly allowed).
    • _Bruce_ on 20/11/2013 - 13:56
      +7

      I do a lot of photography and photo editing, PC's are crap for this.

      This is mostly an image/marketting thing.

      • gmail92 on 21/11/2013 - 00:20
        +3

        So true. Obviously the PC you used wasn't on the same standard of the Mac (probably older).
        Plenty of stereotyping about PCs there, all that makes you feel better about your Mac.

        Whatever helps you sleep at night YTW.

      • WixZ on 21/11/2013 - 09:42
        +1

        It is partially true, iMac has a nice and color accurate screen. Your average user probably doesn't have nice IPS monitor

        • _Bruce_ on 21/11/2013 - 15:14

          Sure, but this in no way backs up the comment "I do a lot of photography and photo editing, PC's are crap for this.".

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