Mother scammed with Premium SMS Subscription, Is Vodafone partially responsible?

Here is the background, my mother is an elderly lady that uses a basic Non-Smartphone Vodafone handset that has Facebook integration, though she doesn’t have Facebook or use the internet on her phone. She uses the phone to receive calls and for emergencies. Her usage is tiny.

She keeps about $100 on the phone, using prepaid which expires after 365 days. Plenty of credit.

She receives notification from Vodafone that she only has $10 left, it surprises her so she rings Vodafone. Vodafone tell her incorrectly that it is due to background data usage. She puts $30 on her phone. A couple weeks later, she again gets notification that she only has $10 left.

She rings Vodafone and they tell her that she is subscribed to a premium SMS service that charges $6 per message. The subscription is called MyWinner and she had been receiving and ignoring idiotic quiz SMSs such as “How many days are there in the month of September”.

Vodafone say they will block the number so she will no longer receive SMSs from MyWinner and from my Mother’s perspective, that’s that. When I hear the story I am extremely unsettled. My mother has no idea what an SMS subscription is, what a premium SMS is or how one would subscribe to it. From my perspective she has fallen for a scam. I try to keep her educated with internet and data security but obviously more education is required.

I ring Vodafone back to get Premium SMS services blocked completely and her data service stopped so there are no more surprises.

So being extremely angry, I ask why they let this stuff happen. Vodafone accepts no responsibility.

Now my judgement may be clouded with anger but my issues are:

  1. Vodafone initially advised her incorrectly that is was data usage
  2. They didn’t ask my mother if she would like ALL premium SMSs blocked.
  3. They didn’t educate my mother on how to avoid this in the future
  4. If Vodafone doesn’t get any revenue from these premium SMSs then I agree that Vodafone has no responsibility for the charges (akin to an ISP delivering an email with your bank details to a Nigerian Prince), however, if Vodafone does take a cut of the premium SMS revenue, I would argue that Vodafone is helping to facilitate these scams and profiting from them.

I feel my mother has been burnt and learnt her lesson and it shouldn’t happen again but how many other naïve elderly people are being scammed. Around $100 over a couple of months is pretty significant and scale that out to 1000s of people, it’s a huge sum of money.

I feel Telcos should have some responsibility in regulating these Premium SMS services. If they are identified as a scam, they should be shut down.

So, the questions I want to throw out to the Ozbargainers are:

  1. Am I being rational?
  2. Does anyone know if Telcos get a cut of the Premium SMS revenue and if so how can we get Vodafone to admit some responsibility
  3. How can the community ensure this doesn’t happen?

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Comments

  • +1

    Vodafone does not get any revenue from premium SMS. If Vodafone misinformed your mother then any fees from that point onwards should be refunded to you, however the user has to reply as a form of 'opt in' in order to be charged for premium SMSes. They have a option at the point of sign-up to block premium SMSes completely. Your anger should be directed at the operators of premium SMS services and not Vodafone.

    • +8

      Vodafone does not get any revenue from premium SMS.

      Then why would Vodafone pass these charges along on your phone bill?

      • +5

        I can categorically tell you that they do make a cut. I know this guy who ran an adult services text / 1902 service company, and it was about 20%.

        i.e. from the $5.50 / min or $5.50 / sms, it was about $1.20 to the telco.

  • -1
    1. You are not being rational.
    2. They do NOT get a cut from Premium SMS. Generally most Telco companies pre-block Premium SMS (this would only be on recently purchased numbers, not numbers that have been activated for quite some time) Vodafone is NOT responsible for this. All premium SMS services have terms and conditions stating that ALL text messages are $X per message.
    3. As stated above, Vodafone for example generally automatically blocks Premium Numbers at connection (only recently so does not count for old numbers) and for old numbers you have the choice to block them or not.

    You don't just 'magically' get signed up for premium text services. They can't just 'sign you up' there has to be an initial msg, or a response to their first message, that subscribes you. If you believe this it not the case, and a company just signed her up with out her EVER responding (which I doubt) then you have every right to contact the competition company and dispute that. Vodafone has done nothing wrong here besides accidentally telling her it was data.

    • +6

      They do NOT get a cut from Premium SMS.

      OK, so you are telling me that if I get a $6 charge for a premium SMS on my Vodafone bill, Vodafone isn't taking a cut of that?

      Could I just set up my own premium SMS service and somehow force Vodafone to bill for it and not give Vodafone any money?

      I find that hard to believe.

    • +7

      They do NOT get a cut from Premium SMS.

      where did you get this "info" from? after a quick google it looks like the telcos do indeed take there cut before giving the rest to the premium sms company

      this is the only way it even makes sense for me to have the telcos doing the billing for it. why on earth would the telcos put in extra work as well as pissing off there customers (who subscribes to premium sms on purpose anyway?) if they werent making a huge profit out of it?

      i also checked a few telcos pages about psms and can see no mention of them not taking any cut from it so again, unless you have some more reliable info than "this is just what i personally think" it appears your wrong.

    • +3

      Actually, you can.

      I received an unsolicited SMS a few years ago. I can absolutely confirm that I did not click anything, did not sign up anywhere. Something happened somewhere to opt me in without my consent. This SMS said that it cost $5 or so, I can't remember what, and I was absolutely disgusted that it could be sent without my consent.

      I refused to send STOP to cancel it, as I NEVER signed up. I'd never heard of them. I looked them up online, made several complaints to various agencies, and contacted them directly and told them where they could stick their SMS and demanded a refund to my mobile account that they had pilfered without permission. I also had a Vodafone 365 day account at this time.

      There was one particular person who seemed to run the site/program, and he admitted in a personal contact to me that I hadn't signed up and agreed to refund me the $5. Surprisingly, it came back to me in an envelope, a $5 note. Very unprofessional.

      Anyway, it is not 100% true that you cannot get signed up to these without your permission. Something went wrong somewhere, but I stood my ground.

  • +4

    I don't think you're being unreasonable…of all the telcos I've used, the only time I've even received these sneaky "premium offers" has been when I was with Voda.

    Perhaps it's just a coincidence, or I'm mega cynical, but it doesn't smell right to me!

    • +1

      That's because Telstra and Optus disallow the bad ones on an infrastructure level, which flows on to all the people who resell their tower use. Vodafail, on the other hand, has their own tower system, complete with its scam funding.

  • +8

    Not unreasonable.

    Start with Voda, outline your version of events, highlight the fact they you were originally told it was data using up the credit. Then go to the TIO if you don't get satisfaction from Voda. Voda will have a record of you calling the contact centre, if it gets as far as the TIO then Voda will be required to produce all call logs/notes as part of the investigation.

    …and to those thinking Voda doesn't get a cut, LOL. They do get a tidy cut from this. They do not pass on 100% of the charge, there is a fee that goes to the telco doing the billing.

  • +5

    Telcos should have this facility disabled as the default setting and idiots that want to use it can turn it on. The current system where it is on by default is downright stupid.
    There is a means for everyone to disable it but most have no idea about it.
    Telcos DO profit from it.

    Another warning for the OP… be careful with building up a surplus in that Voda 365 account… if you change providers they will not refund 1c of it. Outright theft.

    The best account for her (and best mobile company to deal with) is Amaysim's as you go plan.
    Theoretically it can cost under 50c a year. They do not charge a rip off connection fee and only a flat rate of 12c per minute per call. Set up a direct debit and all she has to do is make at least one phone call every 3 months to keep it active.

    We are old codgers and once used the voda 365 plan but the Amaysim one is much better, and so is the company.

    • Telcos should have this facility disabled as the default setting

      Agreed! A few of them do have it disabled by default. Doubt they will do this though, the telcos love the cream they skimm off the top.

      I got a charge once from something I know I didn't signup for (I've never voted in any of those stupid comps, or been tempted by the grazy frog). I was with Voda at the time. It was waived and they changed my settings to block it.

    • replied wrong comment

    • +4

      outright theft???

      Can you please advise any prepaid carrier that refunds credit when you port out?

      • Both your comments are replying to the same person.

    • "Amaysim one is much better, and so is the company"

      I am in agreement with this. Also with Amaysim you can do all of this PSMS blocking in the user account on their web site.

    • "There is a means for everyone to disable it but most have no idea about it."

      Please explain. I sure don't know how.

    1. They should refund the $20
    2. Would be nice they did, I don't think they have to.
    3. I don't think they should be required to unless she asks them.

    As twodollah said, your mother must have seen an ad on tv or something and decided to opt in.

    • As twodollah said, your mother must have seen an ad on tv or something and decided to opt in.

      Not necessarily.

      IME, it's more often than not an unsolicited SMS that kickstarts the whole process…the most easy way to clear it seems to serendipitously sign the poor unsuspecting victim up! Hmmm, gotta wonder where these scammers get the person's phone number from though??? :/

  • It wouldn't have been a sign up from a TV ad, I suspect either an unsolicited sms or email where she has clicked a link and provided details, perhaps from a phishing scam. As for comments on terms and conditions, please… dodgy business practice is still dodgy regardless of the fine print. I'm not saying the user is entirely without fault but this industry should at least try to look after its customers.

    Whether we get a refund or not is secondary, if it was for money alone I wouldn't put the potentially hours of effort in to get a $20 refund, however, as mentioned in my post, I wonder how many other are in this situation and have been scammed and would like to help in some way to reduce this number. Does the telco rack up income and the scammer continues to generate revenue. If so, this practice is unethical but if the telco is simply passing on the message and not receiving a premium, then its down to the scammer.

    Does anyone know who issues these premium SMS numbers? Is it the telcos or some other authority

    • Something similar happened with my mother. After checking her browsing history turns out she entered a 'competition' and the T&C were in gray text on a gray background.

      Optus couldn't have cared less until the TIO were involved.

      • +2

        I don't see how Optus could be the one to blame?

        • This was probably 5+ years ago. They did not have functioning resolution process. Never received promised call backs and did not allow blocking of SMS premium services. Their reasoning. You many want to use the service in the future and can't if we block it.

          Edit. I also believe that premium SMS services generally are designed to be misleading and should have been heavily regulated from their conception.

  • +6

    1.Am I being rational?

    I see where your coming from but I don't think so.

    Your using age as an excuse for why this shouldn't happen.

    I don't know if you recall back in the 'old days' when you would browse certain websites and they would disconnect you 56k modem and redial a premium number without your knowledge or permission.

    My point is Vodafone is just the carrier, they are not responsible for how you use the service.

    When you mum told you about this background data, does she know what that is? when Vodafone told her this, why did she just except that fact, knowing that she doesn't use hardly? any data.

    How do you know it wasn't from TV? She doesn't watch TV?

    Also your calling the quizzes idiotic? Has she been replying, maybe she finds them quite enjoyable.

    The internet and life in general is full of scams. Personal responsibility is key. Look at how many of your own seemingly intelligent friends thank Bunnings for that $500 gift card they win on facebook.

    Your lucky that your mother is not like mine, ringing me up every five seconds because the clock has changed time or the hard drive has spun up, or there is a light where the power button is.

    2.

    Not sure.

    3.How can the community ensure this doesn’t happen?

    Write to Tony Abbott. He has a plan to store all the metadata and stop home grown terrorism. Surely a few rouge SMS shouldn't be a problem.

    • +2

      Surely a few rouge SMS shouldn't be a problem.

      Yeah, that's what they all think, until communism gets a foothold…filthy reds! :P

    • i noticed a few friends thanking bunnings before… what was really going on there? did they get the $500?

      • From my understanding. They set up a Facebook page. Do a pretend competition so idiots like them (and share so they get more likes). Then a few months later after everyone has forgotten they liked the page, the owners sell the page to the highest bidder who then changes the page to their business and pretends they're popular.

  • +3

    I don't think Vodafone is liable for these charges. You should ring them up to block the premium services, and then ring the premium service provider to get the charges refunded.

    http://support.vodafone.com.au/articles/FAQ/How-to-block-or-…

  • +5

    I think you are being a little but irrational. Sure it is something to be upset about but the blame isn't with Voda.

    Your mum somehow signed up to something. It's funny how she tells you about her phone credit and not the SMS's she's recieving. So she must of wanted them or she would have complained earlier.

    I would say the premium SMS works like a ATM. They just charge you directly instead of chasing up the company. Voda may get a dollar or two out of it. But that would be their fee charging the company for the services. Like paying a company to host a website but they don't make the website.

    In the end it is just unfortunate. Just live with it and move on. You have blocked the service and told your mum to be more careful. In my opinion, that is all you can do.

  • +3

    I disagree with many here - when I first put any Voda SIM in a new or factory reset phone. I get a little text message welcoming' me toTXT Central' and an undeletable/uninstallable icon in my apps draw for this premium text sh*t. This is even tho I have premium text barred on my accounts.

    Another stunt they seem to have re-introduced after a pause of ~ a year is enabling the Call Catcher' non-service. I had my phone do this for an unanswered call [from my own pre-paid] the other night - 18 months after I spent 4 weeks endeavouring to have the scam completely and utterly scrubbed. The Voda rep assured me that we didn't turn it on'. Someone did. It wasn't me!

    I'm usually of the opinion that you do it, you pay - however in this case, i would check your mothers phone and see if ` text central' is on there. if it is, Voda put it there. I'd ring them back, mention this, and then bring in the matter of the TIO.

  • It is amazing how many assumptions people make. Why would anyone subscribe to these types of quizes. She didn't intend to and simply ignored them as she would ignore spam email. She didn't know of the concept of premium SMSs and didn't realise there would be an impact to her credit balance.

    I am still of the optinion that I wouldn't put any blame on Vodafone if they don't receive any premium revenue from passing on these premium SMSs. I don't know whether they do or don't, the point is, if they do, they profit from any form of these subscription services, legitimate or not.

    For peoples reference, the service that she was subscribed to is Mywinmo run by Mediacup Corp.

    • +1

      Haven't worked in telco for a while, so i could be way off. But I beleive the billing telco (in this case Vodafone) takes at least 30% of the premium charges. Then the carrier hosting the premium service (couldn't find it after some googleing) gets a further 10% or so cut.

      It's good to see that these scams aren't as popular as they were about 10 years ago. I remember the crazy frog ads all over the cartoons on the TV. IMO Those operators are scum.

      Oh, it's spelt "Media Kup" not mediacup, registered in Canada but looks like it only provides services to Australia. I'd be willing to bet all they have in Canada is a PO box. Also scamming people under the name "cellprotecto"

      Someone with recent telco experience care to comment? My information is about 8 yrs old sorry, but I don't believe this would have changed much.

      • but I don't believe this would have changed much.

        if anything with the lower uptake of these sorts of scams these days the telcos would only be wanting a bigger cut not smaller, but good info anyway.

        • +1

          10 years ago it was the wild west for premium SMS. There were tens of thousands of complaints.

          At one point you actually had to write a letter to the Premium SMS company begging them to stop. There was almost no way. So many people got scammed out of thousands on their mobile bills.

          They would quick fire $5 SMSs at people. Just enroll them by getting their numbers. etc etc

          Laws have changed a lot and telcos like to avoid TIO cases. They need to be clearer about the charges, they have maximum billing limits etc. Some of it is telco enforced (industry code, enforced by TIO). Some of it is regulatory (ACMA, generally enforced by TIO on individual cases. or by ACMA itself for larger issues impacting a lot of people).

        • +1

          And this is why the telcos like to avoid the TIO, expensive for them, regardless of the outcome

          http://www.tio.com.au/members/billing-and-payments

        • @ChickenTalon: Gobsmacking!

    • Why would anyone subscribe to these types of quizes.

      Sounds like mummy is not happy with her basic Non-Smartphone Vodafone handset and wants the new Ipad air.

      http://offers2.mywinmo.com/twsztxcttvdussdtaadba/au/mwcoau/

  • i was in a similar situation where i was charged by virgin at over $100 for premium SMS which i never subscriped to. I rang them and demand a full refund on my account as i never authorised them to give my number out to third party SMS service. Took me a few phone call but get my account credited in the end.

  • +1

    Vodafone pulled this crap on me years ago (8+???)

    One day I received a random sms message that included a url link only. Having no idea what it was, I typed the url into my pc browser and it took me to a website that sold ringtones and other crap. Didn't think anything of it. Kept receiving these odd sms messages, about 10 per day.

    Later that day I received a message saying that I was out of credit. Thought that was really odd as I was prepaid and knew there should be about $30 on the account. Recharged. Next day same thing. Called vodafone.

    They informed me that I was being charged for a premium sms service (cant remember the name) and that they charge something like $3 per message and send 1 message per week. I informed them that I was receiving about 10 of them per day and that I had never signed up for any premium sms service.

    They tried to tell me that it was my responsibility to contact the premium sms service to cancel it and that it was out of their control. I quite firmly told them that is complete BS, I never signed up for anything, never agreed to anything, and wanted to know how they can allow some random company to start charging my phone account without my permission. They would not budge and I demanded a supervisor.

    The supervisor called me back and I informed them that my account is with them, they are the ones that allow 3rd party premium sms services, and that it was there issue to reclaim the money. They eventually folded, blocked the service for me and refunded my account.

    It looks like even clicking on a single unsolicited url can sign your number up to a service without you even knowing you have agreed to anything.

    tl;dr
    Call vodafone, demand a supervisor, make it clear you never agreed to any premium sms, demand a refund, make them chase the money.

    • +1

      make them chase the money.

      They (voda) hold the money for about 60 days after they bill the customer before they pass it on to the Premium SMS provider. It's so they aren't out of pocket with any complaints.

      • I wonder when they started doing that? Probably after people started complaining about it.

        Like I said, this happened over 8 years ago, maybe 10, and they were very insistent that I had to deal directly with the premium sms supplier at that time.

        • +2

          I think they always kept the money for quite a long time. They certainly didn't want to carry any of the associated risks, (bad debt, charge backs, complaints, reversals etc etc…) just wanted their cut.

          Payments processing and acting like a payment method wasn't a big focus for them, but they certainly had their noses in the trough at the expense of their customers!

          Quite a stupid strategy really, they lost a lot of trust with their customers. Might have been a different landscape if they'd done payment methods properly back a decade ago. Could have been some good competition for banks/cards/PayPal/bpay etc.

        • @ChickenTalon: They definitely lost my trust, that one event was enough to make me look elsewhere for service, and have never considered going back because of it.

  • +1

    I think Voda would only be liable to the charges from when she originally called up and incorrectly told it was a data issue to when she called up the second time and only because they provided her with incorrect details.

    At the end of the day, your mother is responsible for her own phone account. She subscribed - whether consiousy doing so or not - to the service.

    • That's probably true.
      What's also true is that telco's would be making a fair bit of money from these scams - it's up to them whether they want to be associated with such things. The result of (too many) incidents like this area obvious…

  • I had a similar experience with Virgin Mobile.

    I submitted a complaint to the Telecommunications Ombudsman when I was unhappy with their response. It didn't take long for someone to phone me and reverse all charges incurred.

  • Look up the premium SMS owner here:

    http://web.acma.gov.au/numb/openAccess/inquiry/viewAllocatio…

    Here will give you more info:

    http://www.commsalliance.com.au/Activities/mps

    I would be asking Vodafone for a full refund (Cash/Cheque, not credit) even though they didn't subscribe you, they billed you erroneously.

    Failing that, contact the SMS provider.

    I once had someone sign me up on a website to BlueSkyFrog. Only cost me $6~ as I recognised the premium SMS number and stopped it immediately. BSF sent me a cheque (don't think I ever cashed it though) for the full amount. I was dissapointed that I could be subscribed without verification. This may have changed as it was when the premium SMS crap first started.

    Also, 1800MUMDAD (possibly also 1800Reverse) like to subscribe you once you've rejected a few calls. They say it's because you're calling the caller back; I'm sure it's illegal though.

  • This has happened to me before. I posted a message on their forum and got it resolved eventually.

    http://community.vodafone.com.au/t5/Contract/Premium-service…

    I would suggest doing something similar.

    Good luck mate!

  • Unconscionable conduct - Commercial Bank of Australia v Amadio?

    • +5

      Here come the first year law students to the rescue.

      • With a limited understanding of Amadio.

  • Using age isn't an excuse.
    If you know when your mother called them, they can pull up the recorded conversation, which will prove your case about them saying it is data.

    Also why are you even on Ozbargain…. Have you actually called them to speak to them in regards to this issue?

    Generally speaking, if you just call them, they will give you a goodwill refund as they want to keep your business. If they don't give you a refund, then CALMFULLY speak to them and discuss a resolution, don't be so angry and pissed off like you have written your post here.

    If they do not offer you a refund, then just say "I will be raising a complaint with TIO, thank you" then if they are smart by now, then they will say "ok we will give you a good will refund", since by raising a TIO complaint the company actually gets fined a fee. And if they know they will lose which the chances are with many of their TIO cases then they will just give you a refund, so they can save money on Ombudsman Charges.

    If they still don't do anything then just raise a complaint with TIO, they will give you a upper management phone number and a reference number. You call that number and they are alot more helpful, which will most likely result in a refund.

    It is REALLY interesting, how people keep comming onto Ozbargain thinking this is Whinepool without actually doing the first logical step of speaking to the ACTUAL company which they think has wronged them.

    • Reading the original post, it is clear that they did speak to the company, who were quite unhelpful.

    • +3

      Speak calmfully? That's unpossible!

    • First logical step of an OP reply: reading the OP.

  • +1

    I had a similar problem with Optus many years ago.
    Optus just blamed me and refused to refund.
    One call to the TIO, and I soon had a call back from someone at Optus who was well aware of the problem, apologised and returned my money.
    Sad to hear it is still going on.

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