Casual Jobs

AussieDolphin on 15/12/2014 - 22:03

Hi All,

I've been living in Australia for a few years. After a period of working full time and children in tow I quit my job to study toward a degree and work casually whenever possible.

So I had a causal job, turned up on time every time. However, for a few weeks now I haven't been put on the roster to work and I don't know why? I emailed a manager 2 weeks ago and I didn't receive a reply. Added to that the weekly roster which is usually emailed on a Saturday for the following week has not been emailed to me again? Another 'I don't know why' :(.

There was not one single complaint EVER. So being a casual job and all does that mean I can just be struck off like I don't exist? In the UK temporary jobs/assignments still give employees some kind of protection, here though it seems that as a casual employee it's easy to dispose of you even without an explanation.

This has actually knocked my self esteem a bit. Not only that, the day will come when I see the manager at the shops and I will have no idea what to say to her either!

Please let me know if this is common practice because it is casual employment?

Cheers.

Education & Work

Comments

  • Unorthodox on 15/12/2014 - 22:19

    Where did you work?

    • AussieDolphin on 15/12/2014 - 22:47

      Just for a small privately owned franchise.

  • scrimshaw on 15/12/2014 - 22:22
    +6

    A casual employee:

    • has no guaranteed hours of work

    http://www.fairwork.gov.au/employee-entitlements/types-of-em…

    Casuals don't have access to unfair dismissal laws, because you may not really be under any sort of contract. So if you are not getting any shifts, it's quite possible that you may be no longer needed. Time to find another one.

    You could also claim unfair dismissal on the grounds that they fired on for unfair reasons, but if they have not actually formally fired you, but just not giving you shifts, there's not really much you can complain about.

    Students can be particularly hard to roster — if you are not available all 7 days a week there's less of a chance you will be rostered.

    Your options are to:

    1. Find a second job, or run your own side business.

    2. Leave your current job and find part time (not casual work). E.g Service station, Bunnings Warehouse, Coles/IGA/Woolies, Officeworks, fast food

    • AussieDolphin on 15/12/2014 - 22:47

      The place I worked for fitted around my classes perfectly…they were only open 4 days out of 7. I was aware of no guaranteed hours of work BUT I was not aware that I could just somehow be forgotten about without even a word said…. As suggested, I think I'll have a look for permanent part-time hours? or maternity cover something like that. This casual job experience has put me off doing that again!

      • Davo1111 on 16/12/2014 - 01:25
        +1

        thats the downside of casual.

        • AussieDolphin on 16/12/2014 - 17:15
          +1

          True. A valuable lesson learnt.

  • boredrandom on 15/12/2014 - 22:54
    +7

    Sorry to hear about your predicament.
    It might be best to go into work and talk to your manager about it, because then at least you know to start looking for another job and not wait around for shifts that aren't going to come.
    Do you know how old the other employees at the job is? Once you are a over 18, some employers may consider you expensive to roster on. (Happened to a friend of mine and she just stopped getting shifts).

    I'm not sure what your situation is, but that's something to consider…

    • AussieDolphin on 15/12/2014 - 23:10

      Thank you, I didn't think of it like that. Two others were older than me and a few others younger…rates of pay differed depending on age.

    • ilikeradiohead on 17/12/2014 - 12:18
      +3

      Age related rates of pay go up to 21. If the workers are all equally capable, it is in the employer's interest to roster on younger people.

      Fair Work Ombudsman

      The pay structure for junior employees is as follows:
      Under 16: 45%
      16: 50%
      17: 60%
      18: 70%
      19: 80%
      20: 90% or 95%
      21+ 100% of the award rate or minimum wage.

      (couldn't figure out how to insert a table)

  • PVA on 15/12/2014 - 23:00
    +4

    it happens often.
    Best to call the manager and ask rather than email then they have to answer.

  • p1 ama on 15/12/2014 - 23:04
    +5

    There was not one single complaint EVER. So being a casual job and all does that mean I can just be struck off like I don't exist? In the UK temporary jobs/assignments still give employees some kind of protection, here though it seems that as a casual employee it's easy to dispose of you even without an explanation.

    There doesn't need to be a complaint for a dismissal to occur. Sometimes businesses just have too many employees and just need to cut down to save costs. Of course, the first to go are the casuals because they're easier to dismiss, no payouts…etc.

    But yes, as Scrimshaw says, for casuals, there's no guaranteed hours of work and during down periods, you may well be not working at all. The current holiday season is a great example where a lot of businesses which are not retail might not be getting as many customers as throughout the year, so it's perfectly reasonable that they don't need employees during this time.

    This has actually knocked my self esteem a bit. Not only that, the day will come when I see the manager at the shops and I will have no idea what to say to her either!

    Don't let it get to you, as attached as people get to their jobs, they come and go. As long as you're competent and hardworking, you'll have no trouble finding a new job unless you're in a dead industry.

    Whilst it's unfair to make broad statements, I would say that even in today's economy with rising unemployment and whatnot, those who work hard and are competent and what they do all have jobs. All of my graduate friends who did well at uni got jobs.

    I don't really want to get into a discussion, but don't fear being jobless unless you're a cut below the rest. The issue is really too many qualified people. Universities are irresponsibly churning out too many graduates, some who have GPAs far too low to ever really get a real job because they are greedy.

  • eatwell365 on 15/12/2014 - 23:52
    +5

    Hi OP, believe in yourself. do not doubt yourself. casual is casual. esp small business, sometimes situation changes. how about start your,own business - domestic cleaning, ironing, gardening…just a few idea.

  • Sweetnsour on 16/12/2014 - 08:32
    +1

    There is some protection regarding casuals but minimal. You will need to prove they gave you regular hours for 6 months or more. Upside of casual work is that you are paid 25% loading to compensate for no leave in addition to regular loadings. Part timer/FT only gets loading for sat/sun and evenings. So cost wise it works out the same for employer, however casual is useful to deal with cyclical retail sales. The best way to create job security is upskilling. Can your job be trained in a day? If so, no job security.

    • AussieDolphin on 16/12/2014 - 17:08

      Thanks for replying. I have certificates and have undertaken training throughout my working life. The casual job was a source of income while I am studying towards a bachelor degree. I applied for a simple job a few months ago and was told I am too over qualified to be considered for the job! Unreal!

      • Sweetnsour on 16/12/2014 - 18:22
        +3

        Best to customise your resume for that particular job. Just to clarify I wouldn't put down your bachelor degree if applying to work casually at takeaway store. It is extra work but being keen and positive are more useful.

        Its hard looking for a job, but put yourself in their shoes. A restaurant manager is not going to hire an accountant grad or MBA for their kitchenhand. Because after training for 2-4 weeks they leave after 4 weeks.

        • AussieDolphin on 16/12/2014 - 21:08
          +1

          There is no way I'm dropping out of my degree. In the long term myself and my family will be better for it… I hope so anyway. You have given my an idea and that is to remove all the qualifications I have from my CV so that I can find a job that fits around my study commitments. Wish I had thought of that sooner!

      • scrimshaw on 16/12/2014 - 18:27
        +5

        Don't say you are studying for a degree. You will just get the same old 'overqualified' excuse. Just state that you are a parent and you have kids to look after.

        If applying for a casual entry level position, downplay your formal qualifications but brag about your work ethic / customer service / ability to think and count mentally fast. And pretend to be enthusiastic to learn from the job even though you're only doing it to earn money.

  • Sweetnsour on 16/12/2014 - 08:34
    +1

    See if another franchise in the area needs additional staff. Mention you have experience from a nearby franchise or see if a competitor has jobs available.

    • AussieDolphin on 16/12/2014 - 17:12

      There is another but I am told the owner cannot keep staff for any length of time. Could imply a lot of things I suppose.

  • cypher67 on 16/12/2014 - 08:46
    +10

    Whilst a casual employment can be terminated without reason, the OP deserves the dignity to at least be told if they should seek other employment. Simply being told nothing is not an acceptable practice. Chin up OP, good employee's are hard to find and if they dont show up the respect of informing you, I'd seek other employment and not give them another thought.

  • Mumbles on 16/12/2014 - 10:19
    +6

    Hi 3blessings! No need to let it affect your self esteem. I've never had a permanent job. If you've been around a while you'll recognise everything goes in cycles. There are times when the job market favours employers and there are times when it favours casual/contractors.

    Check with colleagues in the same industry who work for the competitors. You'll find their workplace has probably lost some employees too. Its probably an industry wide issue or local economy thing.

    When the local economy improves and things turn in favour of employees you'll be laughing when you are working the same hours as a permanent but on +25% loading.

    As for what to say when you encounter your ex-manager. Turn it into an opportunity to start a conversion with the aim of asking them to be a referee. Tell them you are applying for several casual positions. With the right attitude you won't be running away from them, instead you'll seeking them out to make opportunities, showing them your confidence and your determined attitude even during job hunting.

    When life hands you lemons make lemonade. Juggling work, study, kids and home is very hectic. Think of it as a good opportunity to refresh and revitalise. Then you'll have more energy to direct into your kids and your studies.

    The statistics are that a person is expected to change their job 8 times in their lifetime. Don't be too hung up since each job had to end sometime. I bet you don't know anyone older than you who has been with the one employer for the entire of their career.

    Good luck. I wish you all the best in your job hunt.

    • AussieDolphin on 16/12/2014 - 17:14

      Thank you…. your advice has helped a lot.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2014 - 12:06

    Also, Australia like just about any other country, the employer can (and does) treat you however they like, which is often very poorly. Is this legal, NO ! It then up to YOU to lodge complaints with everyone who will listen, HR, Govt Depts, Lawyers, Unions, Tribunals etc. Most often small business owners have no idea about management and legal issues regarding their business etc. So, if the employer is an a-hole, nail their ass to the wall ! (aka find the right agency/lawyer and take action). Good Luck ! But maybe ring or talk face to face with the employer first.

  • ozbargainer888 on 16/12/2014 - 12:41
    +1

    Although it's not best practice for you not to receive a response from your manager, there is no obligation to continue putting you on the schedule. It may just be they are not able to provide any more shifts.
    Don't let this have a negative effect on your self esteem as it is quite common.

    If it were me I'd give the manager a call and just speak to her/him. If you're told that there really isn't much work for a period of time then you can look for other casual jobs but tell them you're happy to be contacted if any work pops up for you. It's really the nature of casual work. Just like the employer doesn't need to offer you shifts, you also don't need to accept shifts.

    Either way good luck.

  • Sweet Potatoes on 16/12/2014 - 13:27

    I would give the manager a call, or even go in and see her, and ask her if you can put her down as a referee. Then maybe explore with her why she didn't put you on the roster or reply to your email.
    Pretty rude of her not to reply - she could at least say there is no work available for you at the moment, but maybe she is no good at that kind of thing!

    • AussieDolphin on 16/12/2014 - 17:09

      Thanks, actually since this dilemma has unfolded and looking back I don't think the managers work ethic is very good either.

  • mousie on 16/12/2014 - 18:38
    +1

    Just look for a new job. Reason for leaving - no communication from management. Casual employees are the most expensive staff to keep on, so the manager may be under the pump from financial figures. Easy come easy go.

  • tolchok on 16/12/2014 - 22:36
    +1

    Hello OP, you have been given some potentially terrible advice in some of the comments above. Whether you have any recourse for the removal of your shifts will depend on your specific circumstances, being a casual does not automatically mean that you can be terminated without being given a valid reason.

    If you were a casual staff member employed on a regular and systematic basis (which does not necessarily mean you had regular shifts), and had served the minimum employment period then you have protection from unfair dismissal.

    If you had been working a minimum of x hours per week consistently for a reasonable length of time (whether x equals 6 hours or 40 hours), an employer cannot simply remove all of your shifts without giving you a reason, and if they give you a reason it has to be a valid reason just like part time and full time employees.

    A case often used to argue that removal of all shifts for a casual is effectively termination of employment is Sherwin v Adesse (2008):

    "[10] Termination can apply where work is not offered to a casual employee in circumstances where it is available and all things being equal the person could expect to be offered that work. In the case of a casual employee who has worked regularly for the same employer for a long period of time this might be considered to be a variation on the concept of “they also serve who only stand and wait”.

    [11] There does come a time when, if a person is not offered work, there can be a presumption that the employer no longer wishes that person to do the work. Some uncertainty might arise over a short period as to available work but the longer the period the more an employee is entitled to believe that they are not going to be offered work. An employer can not be heard to say that the casual should be available for work but yet offer no explanation as to when (in broad terms) they might be required."

    Oh, and lots of casual employees successfully run unfair dismissal cases, so don't be put off standing up for your workplace rights because of the comments by some other OzBargainers.

  • nikey2k27 on 16/12/2014 - 23:08
    +1

    It happen a lots i see many casual staff come and go boss can be asshole only give hour to people they like i was told buy one boss if not PT she keep cut my hours .
    Find a another do let it get you down it business

  • Randxyz123 on 17/12/2014 - 10:35
    +1

    I would go in and speak to your manager. If you do, don't be rude but be firm in wanting answers.

    This has actually knocked my self esteem a bit.

    Don't let it get to you. Try and contact other employees who worked with you… Find out if there is an innocent explanation(the email systems were updated, the manager has since quit etc) or if the manager is just being a dick.

    • AussieDolphin on 17/12/2014 - 11:10

      I don't have contact numbers for anyone but I did email a colleague to ask but she never replied either??? It's almost like everyone knows something I don't!

      • AlanHB on 17/12/2014 - 17:45

        Cmon - your workplace must have a public phone number that you can call.

        I may be a bit of a pessimist, but the fact you opted to email your boss/colleagues rather than call suggests that you may not be on the best of terms with them, or at least not comfortable enough to call them. Neither of these suggests an optimum workplace situation.

        I was in a similar situation to you years ago. I started a casual job. It started with a couple of shifts, then started to die off. When I realised this was happening I started calling the shift manager every day asking for extra work, asking if people had dropped out etc.

        Sounds annoying? Probably at the beginning, but slowly I started getting more shifts as I became the guy who would fill in for anyone at any time.

        Eventually I was doing a ridiculous 60 hours/week casual wage.

        I know this is probably overkill for your purposes, but I'm illustrating how I fixed the situation you are currently in. I doubt this would have occurred with a single email every 2 weeks.

        • AussieDolphin on 17/12/2014 - 18:44

          I have sent ONE email. Of course my previous place of work has a phone number. I was replying to Knick007 about getting in touch with colleagues. I don't have their personal numbers that's what I was referring to. Also, the manager where I used to work spends a lot of time in Adelaide attending conferences. I'll work up the courage to call her on her mobile.

        • AlanHB on 17/12/2014 - 18:53
          +1

          Good plan. At the very least you can get a quick, definitive answer.

          I recommend first writing down the exact questions you want to ask on a piece of paper to refer to during the phonecall.

          Also don't wait for the "right time", you'll just get more and more nervous. Id just call immediately (as in, right now).

  • Ughhh on 17/12/2014 - 13:09
    +1

    If you want immediate answers, go into your work in person. Phone calls and emails are easy to ignore and forget. Go in to "check your roster" and then ask politely. If I was your colleague, unless we were great friends, I probably would've accidentally forget to reply or find out for you.

  • tolchok on 17/12/2014 - 16:56
    +1

    Definitely make sure that it wasn't an oversight that you haven't received shifts/ notification of shifts, because the best outcome is to return to work as per usual without further stress for either party.

    I would usually suggest doing this in writing via email or text message to avoid potential 'he said, she said' situations occurring later, just in case removing your shifts was not an oversight.

    In this case, perhaps take a family member or friend as a witness/ support person to discuss it in person. You do not need to make it obvious that you are expecting something bad to happen (you could just say that they are giving you a lift), and you should expect the interaction to be positive as most of the time these matters resolve themselves, but if the manager says they want a private word make sure you ask whether you need or can have a support person (in line with s387(d) of the Fair Work Act ('the Act')).

    Write down exactly what was said in the discussion after leaving the workplace, and record the date and time of speaking to the manager, as well as the date and time of taking the notes of what was said. You can then email them to confirm anything that was said in the discussion that you want more reliable evidence of.

    They can make you redundant (without any redundancy pay because you were a casual). It would only be a genuine redundancy (as defined at s389 of the Act) if there is a genuine shortage of work and no redeployment opportunities, though depending on your industry they may have needed to consult - and they definitely should have notified you. If there are still the same number of work-hours on the rosters after your shifts were removed, or new staff members have replaced you on the roster, then it would not be a genuine redundancy, and would be an unfair dismissal.

    • AussieDolphin on 17/12/2014 - 18:49

      Thank you. I went over the previous rosters and the same people who work there were given more work with no more being offered to me for no reason at all.

  • IMBI3 on 17/12/2014 - 20:42

    It has been 2 days since you posted and received suggestions. Have you actually gone and speak to the manager?

  • love2buy on 17/12/2014 - 21:10

    But being a casual don't you get to say no easier to shifts that don't suit you.

  • hitubaba on 18/12/2014 - 00:07
    +1

    Temporarily if you can find hope here then go for this. I know people who make constant income here… Www.airtasker.com.au. This way you have bit of flexibility. Good Luck

  • sparkles on 18/12/2014 - 11:37
    +2

    Speak to the manager where you work in person, be frank, and ask outright what are your chances of getting more shifts. Sometimes when permanent or full time positions get filled the casuals that filled those gaps lose their shifts, this is common. There is zero you can do about it, that's the life of a casual. It happened to me, I simply went and got a new causal job, usually better. Ultimately if they have no work for you, it's futile arguing them, at the end of the day you want to walk away with a reference, not a fight.

    My recommendation is to tear your resume down to the bare bones, mention studying but make yourself seem quite unqualified yet still experienced, and thus more suited to a casual position. Look for a new casual role and keep an open mind. From experience casual roles are most easily gained when you present yourself in person to hand in a resume.

  • lostn on 18/12/2014 - 16:35
    +2

    A lot of places are cutting back. Especially casuals. Even at big companies. It's happening to a LOT of people where I work too.

    It's nothing personal I'm sure.

    • honeydew on 18/12/2014 - 21:46
      +1

      true, my husband's work usually hires casuals for the christmas period and this year they didnt

  • Shadow54 on 27/12/2014 - 09:16
    +1

    For the first 6 months as a casual you have NO rights. Even if you are unfairly "terminated", you have NO recourse. After 6 months, provided you have had regular work, you do actually have some rights. Been through this bulltish myself at Fair Work Australia.

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